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Re: Can't get a good sound in any software instrument [Re: Gimbal] #2840803
04/20/19 04:50 AM
04/20/19 04:50 AM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 605
Celestis
Granyala Offline
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Celestis
Have fun, let us know what you think. laugh


The backbone of modern industrial society is, and for the foreseeable future will be, the use of electrical Power.
VPC 1 -> Pianoteq 6 Std | Garritan CFX / Pearl Alto Flute 201
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Re: Can't get a good sound in any software instrument [Re: siros] #2840860
04/20/19 09:56 AM
04/20/19 09:56 AM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 302
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stamkorg Offline
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Originally Posted by siros
I found for myself that using Pianoteq with speakers requires turning off its reverb effect (manually) on all presets. Otherwise, it will feel like the piano is 10m away played by someone else.
Even on headphone, some presets, e.g. "Recording" presets, have too much reverb for playing purpose.


Yes, I agree.

These last days I use Pianoteq with the reverb off. Instead, I use the Voxengo OldSckoolVerb in my DAW, which is a free plugin that gives me a very descent reverb sound. To me it sounds better than the Pianoteq reverb.

Re: Can't get a good sound in any software instrument [Re: stamkorg] #2840864
04/20/19 10:06 AM
04/20/19 10:06 AM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,710
Pennsylvania
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dmd Offline
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Pennsylvania
Originally Posted by stamkorg
Originally Posted by siros
I found for myself that using Pianoteq with speakers requires turning off its reverb effect (manually) on all presets. Otherwise, it will feel like the piano is 10m away played by someone else.
Even on headphone, some presets, e.g. "Recording" presets, have too much reverb for playing purpose.


Yes, I agree.

These last days I use Pianoteq with the reverb off. Instead, I use the Voxengo OldSckoolVerb in my DAW, which is a free plugin that gives me a very descent reverb sound. To me it sounds better than the Pianoteq reverb.


For me …. This is a perfect example of why I do not stay with VST sounds for very long when I do try them.

My interest lies in learning to play …. not in learning to find ways to get a "good" sound.

I want to go to the piano … sit down (turn it on) and play.


Don

Kawai MP11SE, Edifier R1850DB Active Bookshelf Speakers, Yamaha HS8S Powered Subwoofer, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq and numerous other VSTs
Re: Can't get a good sound in any software instrument [Re: Gimbal] #2840889
04/20/19 11:37 AM
04/20/19 11:37 AM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 175
Hawai'i Island
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BigIslandGuy Offline
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Pianoteq is definitely not an out-of-the-box great sounding program, but with some time spent setting it up properly and combined with a decent keyboard, I have found it to still be miles better than any crappy or even just semi-crappy acoustic.

Re: Can't get a good sound in any software instrument [Re: Gimbal] #2840891
04/20/19 11:43 AM
04/20/19 11:43 AM
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Posts: 21
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Gimbal Offline OP
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Soo....from reading some of the post here.....it should sound like [censored], and everything is just the way it should be. There is nothing wrong with any hardware or software settings.

It's just strange how people can pay hundreds of dollars for something that sounds so bad you can't even play it. And even more strange that it sounds very good when hearing people play it in Youtube videos.

As I said in the beginning, when trying out Pianoteq, it sounds;

Metallic/Electric
Fals, and pitch goes up and down
Closed in, like the sound is coming from inside a tiny box
Like a cheep toy keyboard

(And it's worse on the lower notes, and especially when playing chords)

Maybe this isn't coming through in Youtube videos? But then again, it's very strange how reviewers says it sounds amazing!

Re: Can't get a good sound in any software instrument [Re: BigIslandGuy] #2840895
04/20/19 12:02 PM
04/20/19 12:02 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,710
Pennsylvania
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dmd Offline
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Originally Posted by BigIslandGuy
Pianoteq is definitely not an out-of-the-box great sounding program, but with some time spent setting it up properly ….


Well, THIS is what I find ODD.

You would think that the folks at Pianoteq would try to put the BEST SOUND they can possibly come up with as their OUT-OF-THE-BOX sound.

Why would they make it difficult to find ?

When I use Pianoteq (PRO), I grab a preset sound, set the Velocity Curve to moderately fast keyboard, access NOTE EDIT for volume and set the BASS notes progressively to a lower volume and done. Good to go. That is going to have to be it.

I used to tinker with this and that and found that there is absolutely no end to that. I could spend hours with it and it is different but not better.

I also may install a user FXP from Pianoteq just for fun if I am in the mood.

But …. that does not last long …. within the half-hour I am back to the built-in sound of my MP11SE with satisfaction that Pianoteq (or any other VST) is not better …. just different.


Don

Kawai MP11SE, Edifier R1850DB Active Bookshelf Speakers, Yamaha HS8S Powered Subwoofer, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq and numerous other VSTs
Re: Can't get a good sound in any software instrument [Re: Gimbal] #2840900
04/20/19 12:26 PM
04/20/19 12:26 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 7,127
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content

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Originally Posted by Gimbal
Soo....from reading some of the post here.....it should sound like [censored], and everything is just the way it should be. There is nothing wrong with any hardware or software settings.

It's just strange how people can pay hundreds of dollars for something that sounds so bad you can't even play it. And even more strange that it sounds very good when hearing people play it in Youtube videos.

As I said in the beginning, when trying out Pianoteq, it sounds;

Metallic/Electric
Fals, and pitch goes up and down
Closed in, like the sound is coming from inside a tiny box
Like a cheep toy keyboard

(And it's worse on the lower notes, and especially when playing chords)

Maybe this isn't coming through in Youtube videos? But then again, it's very strange how reviewers says it sounds amazing!

My FP30 out of the box sounded like a toy keyboard. I got Pianoteq to cure that and it did. Pianoteq sounds awesome to me. If I were a reviewer, I would say it too. Sound is personal though. Some people should just go buy acoustical pianos as no digital will be suitable if they don't like either modeled or sampled instruments.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Can't get a good sound in any software instrument [Re: Gimbal] #2840908
04/20/19 12:40 PM
04/20/19 12:40 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,468
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
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I've tried a thousand ways to tweak PT. The only setting that improved it was this:

[Linked Image]

Re: Can't get a good sound in any software instrument [Re: MacMacMac] #2840950
04/20/19 02:32 PM
04/20/19 02:32 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 614
UK
thickfingers Offline
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Wouldn't it be just as effective, but a lot quicker, to just type "it's crap" again? No need to mess with making graphics for the purpose of putdownery, really... cool

Re: Can't get a good sound in any software instrument [Re: MacMacMac] #2840963
04/20/19 03:15 PM
04/20/19 03:15 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 7,825
Northern England.
peterws Offline
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Northern England.
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I've tried a thousand ways to tweak PT. The only setting that improved it was this:

[Linked Image]


Bet you never tried the Petrof . . . sounds like a decent acoustic upright. My missus said so, I played it today through speakers. She's right, y'know! Nor did you try the ancient Bechstein. All the qualities of a vintage monstrosity, that's why I love it . . . .


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

"[Linked Image]"
Re: Can't get a good sound in any software instrument [Re: stamkorg] #2840967
04/20/19 03:25 PM
04/20/19 03:25 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 605
Celestis
Granyala Offline
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Granyala  Offline
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Posts: 605
Celestis
Originally Posted by stamkorg
These last days I use Pianoteq with the reverb off. Instead, I use the Voxengo OldSckoolVerb in my DAW, which is a free plugin that gives me a very descent reverb sound. To me it sounds better than the Pianoteq reverb.

I fed Pianoteq a samplicity reverb file. Sounds pretty neat.

usually I don#t fuss much with the sound. It sounds like a piano either way and the real difference between nice and not so nice is in my hands, so 99.99% of my time at the piano is spent learning the piano because the best tech, the best VST, the best acoustic will sound like crap if the hands aren't up to the task.

It'll be a few decades/lifetimes until a VST like Pianoteq or Garritan CFX will limit my skills. laugh


The backbone of modern industrial society is, and for the foreseeable future will be, the use of electrical Power.
VPC 1 -> Pianoteq 6 Std | Garritan CFX / Pearl Alto Flute 201
Re: Can't get a good sound in any software instrument [Re: Gimbal] #2840970
04/20/19 03:36 PM
04/20/19 03:36 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,468
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
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MacMacMac  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,468
Raleigh, North Carolina
Yes, Peter. I tried them all.
I tried. And tried. And tried. And tried.
Every version. Every piano. Every tweak, including one suggested here this week.
Really.

It's a small software. Its UI is quite good. Its responsiveness is superb.
But the sound? I've wanted it to be good every since I tried v2.5 almost ten years ago.
No dice.

Re: Can't get a good sound in any software instrument [Re: MacMacMac] #2841049
04/20/19 08:53 PM
04/20/19 08:53 PM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 237
Bangkok, Thailand
siros Offline
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Posts: 237
Bangkok, Thailand
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I've tried a thousand ways to tweak PT. The only setting that improved it was this:

[Linked Image]


That's 6.3. You should try 6.4 with the new Bechstein. whistle

Joking aside, I doubt any product would get a universal love from all customers/users. There is no need to get stuck with this one.

However, finding a perfect VST piano that also suit personal preference is both cost and time consuming. I learned it the hard way from the Ravenscroft.

Re: Can't get a good sound in any software instrument [Re: siros] #2841051
04/20/19 08:59 PM
04/20/19 08:59 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 7,127
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content

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Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 7,127
Originally Posted by siros
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I've tried a thousand ways to tweak PT. The only setting that improved it was this:

[Linked Image]

That's 6.3. You should try 6.4 with the new Bechstein. whistle

I found the Bechstein to be the best. I was using the the Steingraeber E-272 until the Bechstein came out, and now I use the Bechstein almost exclusively since it sounds better to me than the Steingraeber.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Can't get a good sound in any software instrument [Re: siros] #2841055
04/20/19 09:36 PM
04/20/19 09:36 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,468
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
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Posts: 9,468
Raleigh, North Carolina
I did try 6.4. That screenshot is old. I should update it. smile
Originally Posted by siros
That's 6.3. You should try 6.4 with the new Bechstein.

Re: Can't get a good sound in any software instrument [Re: Gimbal] #2841112
04/21/19 06:20 AM
04/21/19 06:20 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 7,825
Northern England.
peterws Offline
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peterws  Offline
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Posts: 7,825
Northern England.
I noticed a tonal difference between 6.3 and 6.4 . . . kinda spoilt it for me. I'll try it again, to make sure it's not just my imagination . . .


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

"[Linked Image]"
Re: Can't get a good sound in any software instrument [Re: peterws] #2841124
04/21/19 07:36 AM
04/21/19 07:36 AM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 614
UK
thickfingers Offline
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By "difference" you mean a degradation, then. That's definitely not how improvements are supposed to work. Something's backwards, there....is it Pierre, or Pianoteque?

Re: Can't get a good sound in any software instrument [Re: thickfingers] #2841154
04/21/19 09:46 AM
04/21/19 09:46 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 7,825
Northern England.
peterws Offline
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peterws  Offline
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Northern England.
Originally Posted by thickfingers
By "difference" you mean a degradation, then. That's definitely not how improvements are supposed to work. Something's backwards, there....is it Pierre, or Pianoteque?


A slight sharpening of the tone, which would require adjustment to the vel curve, or the equ. I really don't want to go there at my age . . . .


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

"[Linked Image]"
Re: Can't get a good sound in any software instrument [Re: peterws] #2841157
04/21/19 09:49 AM
04/21/19 09:49 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,468
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
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Raleigh, North Carolina
I did try the Petrof. And the Bechstein.
Originally Posted by peterws
Bet you never tried the Petrof ... Nor did you try the ancient Bechstein.
I tried them all.

Re: Can't get a good sound in any software instrument [Re: Gimbal] #2841204
04/21/19 01:53 PM
04/21/19 01:53 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,073
Richmond, BC, Canada
C
Charles Cohen Online content
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Charles Cohen  Online Content
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,073
Richmond, BC, Canada
Some people like -- or at least accept -- modelled pianos; others don't. Once someone knows his preferences, I think (based on evidence so far, in this forum) that he's unlikely to change them. Especially when we have no agreed-upon, quantitative vocabulary for describing piano sounds.

I can see that MacMacMac is unlikely to like _any_ Pianoteq sound.

Can we stop beating this horse? It's not dead, but it's not going to get up and pull our wagon, for all our prodding.


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / Korg Wavedrum / EV ZXA1 speaker
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