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So it really seems this might be the best digital piano on the market right now?

Hi Scott- sorry for the delay-- it was the PX350 I briefly had- I did like the piano sounds themselves though. I might consider the 3000 though and from the point of the sounds themselves it could be worth the extra money for the more variations available.

More observations:
Grand Piano: good sustain, no exaggerated attack or plunkiness, has full bodied notes (good midrange definition), the surround sound makes it realistic sounding.

The action near the fallboard is heavy, like most digital pianos. So I accept it. I don't really play back there a lot, especially when playing fast.

Hopefully this isn't too off-topic ... I went to the nearby Guitar Center tonight to check out their digital pianos. They had a Casio PX-350, which has the same action as my PX-160 (the Tri-Sensor Scaled Hammer Action II), and a CDP-S100, which, if I understand it, has the same physical action as the PX-S1000 and 3000 (the difference being the software "smart scaling"). I'm afraid to say that the CDP felt noticeably harder to play near the fallboard than the PX-350. I realize this is hardly a conclusive scientific experiment, and there could be all sorts of psychological factors at play, so don't take my word for it without trying it yourself, but in the spirit of sharing my experience: there you go. (On another note, the action of the Yamaha P45 and P125 did NOT seem any better near the fallboard than the PX-350, so I don't know why everyone picks on the Casio pivot but lets it slide for the Yamaha ... )

Thanks for answering my question!

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These fellows don't seem to be bothered by the fallboard key weight pivot. Do people play the black keys at the fallboard? I don't, these guys don't. I generally play the front half of a black key.

I don't think you'll see anyone in any of these videos scowling in disgust

And it's not the black keys that are usually problematic, it's the whites between the black keys when you have to have your thumb on a black key.

I imagine that most of the time, one can rework the fingering to not play black keys near the fallboard. However, if my thumb has to go on a black key and finger 2 also in a chord, I invariably find that finger 2 plays the black key close to the fallboard.

An easy example of where a resistant back-of-key can be experienced easily is Moonlight Sonata. With the first note thumb on the G#, your second note C# will naturally fall toward the back of that key. So the test is, can you play gently, without risking that the second note fails to play, without having to play in an unnatural manner.

While the previous generation Casio is not perfect for this, I find it acceptable. No worse than other boards in the price range. I'm curious as to whether this feels any different on the PX360 vs PX-S3000. I'm also curious about quiet trills, how well the 2-sensor smart action emulates what can be done on the 3-sensor previous action. Helping here is that the previous 3-sensor action was not the best implementation of 3 sensors, either.


Probably for at least one person. :-) And assuming that weight and/or price are factors, of course. Otherwise I doubt anyone would prefer it to an Avant Grande, for example.

So, as we can see, the short pivot is a problem and any arguments against this are invalid.



Should one really need to completely re-think the fingering just because of a bad digital piano? Why not buy a proper digital piano instead and keep playing as you would on an acoustic real one?

(I'm not really serious of course. Just trolling a little bit, but maybe there's point being made somewhere in there? Of course digital pianos are compromises anyway, but where do we draw the line?)

I don't think there needs to be a line. Portable/light/cheap DPs will have their compromises, and hey, so do $10-15k DPs. Acoustics have to compromise too. If the benefits of the DP outweigh the compromises being drawn, then you have a winner. Nearly anyone *can* play into the keys, it's just not as enjoyable or consistent on a short pivot as on a 7-9' grand with a 10+" pivot. But sometimes it's easier to stuff a portable battery operated DP into the backseat of your car than it is that Steinway D

What was specifically in question here for me was the statement from Casio that they had done something mechanical to make a short pivot easy to play at the fallboard, whereas it really just looks like a simpler lever, same as everyone else uses.

Well of course, even just theoretically, the issue of increased resistance toward the rear of the keys can be a problem, the question is whether or to what extent it is noticeable on one action or another. Personally, I haven't really found it to be an issue on the hammer action boards I've played, but is a big issue on semi-weighteds, where I find much more substantial variation.

I'm not as experienced as probably most on this thread, but my issue is not that my DP is heavier near the fallboard on black and white keys, but that I feel like I have less control. No doubt a more experienced pianist would be able to control it even so, but I feel like my usual 6 levels of dynamics reduces to 3-4 when playing very close to the fallboard.

From the control perspective, it feels harder to play close to the fallboard on my DP than to play normally further from the fallboard on a heavy-actioned VPC1. Not sure why, or if such a difference in perception can be explained by the pivot mechanics.

Not to start another branch of conversation but, does anyone have the S1000 or S3000 on the $129 stand that Casio provides? I just want to know at what height does it place the keys above the floor (measurement from the floor to the top surface of the white keys)? Before I decide to cut into my studio desk and create a shelf specific to this new keyboard, I'm wondering what height the factory stand provides. I cannot find this information anywhere on Casio's website or any other online source.

Yes, I understand that the more important dimension is from the piano bench to the keyboard, but I'm thinking that the factory stand might allow me to slide the keyboard under my studio desk when not in use, without making such a permanent modification to my desktop. Just looking for some help from the forum on this.

And for the record, as an inexperienced digital piano student I am totally thrilled with my purchase. The sound quality is such that I have yet to even push the audio output through my studio monitors. I'm having a time navigating through all the sounds and options of the PX-S3000, but have yet to be disappointed. I don't have enough experience to participate in the "short pivot / action at the fallboard" discussion, and yet I believe that if I learn to play on this action, it will not create an artist that cannot easily transition to others. For $799 it is the nearest weight and feel to the old Knabe Grand that I tinkered on as a child. I am also most impressed with the faux ebony and ivory textured surfaces.

As expected, the touch interface is a fingerprint magnet, but if it ever gets stolen, I'll have no problem proving it was mine!

Jim

I've had the P125 for 8 or so months- so I am trying to decide if getting the s1000 would do anything for me? Is anyone else in the same boat. The variety of the s3000 would of course provide more variety for me.

However, I play a lot of octaves in the C1- G2 range and felt as though I was getting more out the P125 in this area vs. the S1000.
This is via the internals and not connecting to something external such as my ZXA1 90.

What Yamaha is failing to do is rename GHS. It carries a stigma and gets looked at differently than the GH of the P125/255.
IMHO, the 125 is somewhat different than the 95, but they could learn from Casio and market better.

Kinda. I don't need a new slab any time soon, but it's still fun to think about my next one. I'm thinking the comparable Yamaha and Casio would feel like a lateral move from my PX-160, so I'm leaning toward a Roland FP -- at least the 30, maybe higher.

Just curious what your thinking is behind "upgrading" from one entry-level slab to another entry-level slab?

I don't really consider them "entry level" . I consider them more "convenient" for traveling and using for various gigs and functions. The ES8 stays at home while the slabs travel.

Got it. You are talking about upgrading a gigging/travel piano. Then that makes sense. For gigging, I'd assume a PX-S3000 would be nice, but what do I know. I don't gig.