2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
Who's Online Now
70 members (ByronBrown, barbaram, andredatele, accordeur, anotherscott, Bruce In Philly, 13 invisible), 573 guests, and 449 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 27 of 176 1 2 25 26 27 28 29 175 176
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2840167 04/17/19 09:55 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,272
6000 Post Club Member
Online Content
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,272
From the description for each voice in the user manual:
Quote
2 Bösendorfer Imperial - The sound of the famed Vienna-made Bösendorfer flagship grand piano, utilizing four-channel sampling. This Voice has a rich and captivating sound, ideal for expressing the most delicate and tender musical passages.


This seems to be new and I can confirm that through speakers the Bosendorfer sound is better than what used to be on the NU1X (a stereo one, probably the same as in the Clavinova pianos and the P515). The one in the NU1X was overly dark and muffled whereas on the N1X it's very convincing and different. It's certainly on par with the CFX as expressivity and richness.

As to binaural, unfortunately it's only the CFX that's binaural and as a consequence it's the only voice that sound good through headphones. All other voices, regardless of headphone optimization on/off (including Bosendorfer) sound very dull and nasal. I've described that in a thread. But the CFX makes up for that. I can perfectly live with only the CFX binaural for headphones and CFX 4-channel through speakers. So I'm not complaining smile But it would have been better if they offered Bosendorfer binaural too.

Last edited by CyberGene; 04/17/19 09:56 AM.

My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
(ad)
Sweetwater Gifts That Rock
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
HwyStar #2840200 04/17/19 11:41 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,272
6000 Post Club Member
Online Content
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,272
Originally Posted by HwyStar
I have "not" watched this video yet... I guess this will be an interesting comparison to watch. Thanks, Bonners!:


A nice comparison! I know I am biased and I shouldn't judge a piano through YouTube, but I seem to prefer the sound in the N1X more than that of NV10 smile Well, unsurprisingly. There has always been something in the bass of Kawai digital pianos, I can't describe it well, but it's certain lack of clarity, a bit of boominess. When you play in the bass softly, there's an attack that's too fat/thick and reminds a generic bass instrument, almost like a bass guitar. Before anyone gets offended by that, it's an exaggeration on my side, to make my point. There's only a hint of what I am describing, I don't mean the NV10 sounds like a bass guitar (or bongo). IMO, it's just the way Kawai prefer to process their bass notes (I don't believe it's how it sounds in a real Kawai grand because I haven't heard that in recordings of Shigerus) and I don't think other people may find it bad, quite on the contrary, they may actually like the resulting "thickness" of the sound. Personally I prefer the Yamaha with its cleaner and more distinctive attack in the bass where the fundamental isn't so prominent.

Last edited by CyberGene; 04/17/19 11:44 AM.

My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
CyberGene #2840208 04/17/19 12:19 PM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 5,048
G
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 5,048
Originally Posted by CyberGene

As to binaural, unfortunately it's only the CFX that's binaural and as a consequence it's the only voice that sound good through headphones. All other voices, regardless of headphone optimization on/off (including Bosendorfer) sound very dull and nasal.


Unfortunately I think there are a few compromises to the alternative pianos no matter which platform you choose, at least for this generation. It's a good thing the default sounds are good though.

Originally Posted by CyberGene
I seem to prefer the sound in the N1X more than that of NV10 smile Well, unsurprisingly. There has always been something in the bass of Kawai digital pianos, I can't describe it well, but it's certain lack of clarity, a bit of boominess.


For what it's worth, I agree with this description. Kawai has a much deeper bass, and louder treble too. Yamaha has a more clear, distinct bass but an unnaturally muted treble compared to acoustics. The bass character is replicated in Garritan CFX too, so I'm thinking it may actually be a CFX thing and not just processing.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2840209 04/17/19 12:25 PM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,206
D
David B Online Content OP
1000 Post Club Member
OP Online Content
1000 Post Club Member
D
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,206
I wonder how Bonners is recording the N1X? Are they just running the R/L N1X outputs to whatever digital recorder they are using?
In that case, the sound would be the CFX Stereo sample (not binaural). I assume they are not processing the sound post recording.

I also prefer the N1X CFX sound over the Kawai SK-EX and it's for exactly the same reason Cybergene mentioned. He articulated it very well. I played the ES8 and MP11SE and still felt the need to explore VST's. However, I feel kind of silly now that I've invested so much in VST's and a new Mac mini to run them. Since I've owned the N1X (a month and a half and just over 100 hours on it), I find myself preferring the N1X samples. They are very satisfying through the speakers and amazing through headphones (CFX binaural).

When I first got the N1X I think I tricked myself into preferring my VST's to avoid the realization of a superfluous VST expense. However, it's difficult to maintain that position now that I've been playing the N1X for so many hours. I still like my VST's for variety, but I might not have spent so much money (VSL CFX/Steinway/Mac mini = ~$3k) if I had just gotten the N1X first.

God Bless,
David


Yamaha AdvantGrand N1X
Mac mini 2018/Focusrite Scarlett 2i4/KRK Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors
Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course; Completed
Duane Shinn Praise and Gospel Course; In Progress
Duane Shinn Pro Secrets Course; On Hold
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2840214 04/17/19 12:42 PM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 5,048
G
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 5,048
Originally Posted by David B
I wonder how Bonners is recording the N1X? Are they just running the R/L N1X outputs to whatever digital recorder they are using?
In that case, the sound would be the CFX Stereo sample (not binaural). I assume they are not processing the sound post recording.


Good q. For the sake of a comparison I don't think they can assume listeners will be on headphones, in which case binaural through speakers would actually be a disadvantage.

It's great to hear how good the CFX is on the N1X. When I tested the N3X I thought it was ok but still preferred the sound of Garritan. Of course I only had an hour or so to play.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2840215 04/17/19 12:43 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,272
6000 Post Club Member
Online Content
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,272
Originally Posted by David B
I wonder how Bonners is recording the N1X? Are they just running the R/L N1X outputs to whatever digital recorder they are using?
In that case, the sound would be the CFX Stereo sample (not binaural).

I also wondered the same and even left a comment to recommend the binaural patch. IMO they used the main 4-channel sound which is internally mixed down to stereo and doesn’t sound very good, at least IMO.


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2840218 04/17/19 12:48 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,272
6000 Post Club Member
Online Content
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,272
I think Garritan CFX still has the edge in terms of ultimate timbre beauty and especially with the Abbey Road studios natural reverb. However the N1X provides better control of its internal engine with perfect velocity mapping, half-pedaling, smooth key release, VRM, etc. which all makes the N1X’s CFX more playable for me.


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
CyberGene #2840236 04/17/19 01:44 PM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,206
D
David B Online Content OP
1000 Post Club Member
OP Online Content
1000 Post Club Member
D
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,206
Originally Posted by CyberGene
I think Garritan CFX still has the edge in terms of ultimate timbre beauty and especially with the Abbey Road studios natural reverb. However the N1X provides better control of its internal engine with perfect velocity mapping, half-pedaling, smooth key release, VRM, etc. which all makes the N1X’s CFX more playable for me.


Again, I have to agree. I have the Garritan CFX lite version and it sounds a little more like a real piano, but the N1X CFX plays better for the reasons you've mentioned.

It's seems like you're able to consistently articulate how I feel. Next time someone asks me a question, I'll refer them to you. smile

God Bless,
David


Yamaha AdvantGrand N1X
Mac mini 2018/Focusrite Scarlett 2i4/KRK Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors
Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course; Completed
Duane Shinn Praise and Gospel Course; In Progress
Duane Shinn Pro Secrets Course; On Hold
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2840239 04/17/19 01:54 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,272
6000 Post Club Member
Online Content
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,272
Originally Posted by David B
It's seems like you're able to consistently articulate how I feel. Next time someone asks me a question, I'll refer them to you. smile

Sure, we can request gold accounts from the forum administration for saving them database space laugh


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
HwyStar #2840242 04/17/19 02:23 PM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,857
I
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
I
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,857
Originally Posted by HwyStar

It's the first comparison I've watched. Here Yamaha clearly wins in expressiveness IMO.

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
CyberGene #2840249 04/17/19 03:32 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,824
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,824
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Originally Posted by David B
It's seems like you're able to consistently articulate how I feel. Next time someone asks me a question, I'll refer them to you. smile

Sure, we can request gold accounts from the forum administration for saving them database space laugh

Can you two lovebirds get a room already or something? wink grin


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
Tyrone Slothrop #2840253 04/17/19 03:37 PM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 5,048
G
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 5,048
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Can you two lovebirds get a room already or something? wink grin

I thought the N1X thread WAS their room! What are you peeping in here for? shocked


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
Tyrone Slothrop #2840254 04/17/19 03:42 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,272
6000 Post Club Member
Online Content
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,272
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Originally Posted by David B
It's seems like you're able to consistently articulate how I feel. Next time someone asks me a question, I'll refer them to you. smile

Sure, we can request gold accounts from the forum administration for saving them database space laugh

Can you two lovebirds get a room already or something? wink grin

You can join us! You only need to thrice deny Pianoteq laugh


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
CyberGene #2840259 04/17/19 04:07 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,824
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,824
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Originally Posted by David B
It's seems like you're able to consistently articulate how I feel. Next time someone asks me a question, I'll refer them to you. smile

Sure, we can request gold accounts from the forum administration for saving them database space laugh

Can you two lovebirds get a room already or something? wink grin

You can join us! You only need to thrice deny Pianoteq laugh

shocked You just made me involuntarily cross myself! shocked


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
CyberGene #2840268 04/17/19 04:37 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 114
C
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
C
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 114
Originally Posted by CyberGene


A nice comparison! I know I am biased and I shouldn't judge a piano through YouTube, but I seem to prefer the sound in the N1X more than that of NV10 smile Well, unsurprisingly. There has always been something in the bass of Kawai digital pianos, I can't describe it well, but it's certain lack of clarity, a bit of boominess. When you play in the bass softly, there's an attack that's too fat/thick and reminds a generic bass instrument, almost like a bass guitar. Before anyone gets offended by that, it's an exaggeration on my side, to make my point. There's only a hint of what I am describing, I don't mean the NV10 sounds like a bass guitar (or bongo). IMO, it's just the way Kawai prefer to process their bass notes (I don't believe it's how it sounds in a real Kawai grand because I haven't heard that in recordings of Shigerus) and I don't think other people may find it bad, quite on the contrary, they may actually like the resulting "thickness" of the sound. Personally I prefer the Yamaha with its cleaner and more distinctive attack in the bass where the fundamental isn't so prominent.

Hi, some years ago I was decided to get an small grand and tried some kawais and can confirm that they don’t sound like that. But I also tried a CA95 and that same quality you described was present. To me it sounds like an old warm stereo system. My guess is that this “signature” comes from the micro used in the recording more than the speakers system as it seems is present in many models with different speakers. And I hear a little of that same quality in vintage D and to me it’s very unrealistic.

Carlos

Last edited by Carlos-CR; 04/17/19 04:45 PM.
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
Carlos-CR #2840366 04/18/19 05:41 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,181
A
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
A
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,181
Originally Posted by Carlos-CR
Originally Posted by CyberGene


A nice comparison! I know I am biased and I shouldn't judge a piano through YouTube, but I seem to prefer the sound in the N1X more than that of NV10 smile Well, unsurprisingly. There has always been something in the bass of Kawai digital pianos, I can't describe it well, but it's certain lack of clarity, a bit of boominess. When you play in the bass softly, there's an attack that's too fat/thick and reminds a generic bass instrument, almost like a bass guitar. Before anyone gets offended by that, it's an exaggeration on my side, to make my point. There's only a hint of what I am describing, I don't mean the NV10 sounds like a bass guitar (or bongo). IMO, it's just the way Kawai prefer to process their bass notes (I don't believe it's how it sounds in a real Kawai grand because I haven't heard that in recordings of Shigerus) and I don't think other people may find it bad, quite on the contrary, they may actually like the resulting "thickness" of the sound. Personally I prefer the Yamaha with its cleaner and more distinctive attack in the bass where the fundamental isn't so prominent.

Hi, some years ago I was decided to get an small grand and tried some kawais and can confirm that they don’t sound like that. But I also tried a CA95 and that same quality you described was present. To me it sounds like an old warm stereo system. My guess is that this “signature” comes from the micro used in the recording more than the speakers system as it seems is present in many models with different speakers. And I hear a little of that same quality in vintage D and to me it’s very unrealistic.

Yamaha's DP sound signature has been about a bright(ish) and clear sound across the overall range. Kawai's DP sound signature is mellower/warmer and has stronger emphasis on the bass. The stronger bass on the Kawais makes the middle registers sound richer than Yamaha's, imo. But the side-effect is that the lower octaves become muddy quickly, even with light use of the pedal (and this does not happen on an acoustic piano, on the CLPs or pianoteq, for example). These differences can be also heard via headphones or line-out recordings, such as on the Bonner's video posted above. When reproducing the sound via speakers, these differences are even more evident: on Yamaha's top-range models the sound is clear but "thinner" due to the (relative) lack of bass, whereas on Kawai's top-range models the overall sound is richer but "muddy" and "boomy". It then boils down to a matter of preference. In any case, these DPs sound very good as digital pianos but are light-years away for being able to match the clarity and timbre of an average grand piano...

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2840373 04/18/19 06:43 AM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 127
M
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
M
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 127
As written by CyberGene, Yamaha soprano register are artificially muffled and rolled off, What some of you recogniZe as expressiveness, is in my opinion just he tone, which is very (and far too much for my taste) sweet.

Kawai sounds like much better piano, with open open. It's brother, but it's also fuller in all areas and not muffled

Bombing bass was a problem with CA97 SERIES. Didn't play 98 or NV10 to comment on that, but based only on YouTube videos Kawai is clear winner

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
MrKaramba #2840374 04/18/19 06:49 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,272
6000 Post Club Member
Online Content
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,272
Originally Posted by MrKaramba
As written by CyberGene, Yamaha soprano register are artificially muffled and rolled off

I didn't say that, it was Gombessa. Actually, I find the high register in my N1X exactly to my liking, neither too bright, nor too muffled. When I recently played a CA78, I was disappointed by slightly piercing top octaves.

Last edited by CyberGene; 04/18/19 06:51 AM.

My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
CyberGene #2840377 04/18/19 07:08 AM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 127
M
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
M
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 127
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Originally Posted by MrKaramba
As written by CyberGene, Yamaha soprano register are artificially muffled and rolled off

I didn't say that, it was Gombessa. Actually, I find the high register in my N1X exactly to my liking, neither too bright, nor too muffled. When I recently played a CA78, I was disappointed by slightly piercing top octaves.


Oh, sorry than. Was writing while walking on the corridor at work laugh top octovaes need to have a bit of piercing... And concert grands prepared for performing with orhetra can be sometimes even painful, but you need this to cut through orhetra in 2000 seats hall...
However, I would not like to have it at home, but Yamaha's sounds like muffled or covered by a coat

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
MrKaramba #2840383 04/18/19 07:25 AM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,034
N
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
N
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,034
Originally Posted by MrKaramba
As written by CyberGene, Yamaha soprano register are artificially muffled and rolled off, What some of you recogniZe as expressiveness, is in my opinion just he tone, which is very (and far too much for my taste) sweet.

Kawai sounds like much better piano, with open open. It's brother, but it's also fuller in all areas and not muffled

Bombing bass was a problem with CA97 SERIES. Didn't play 98 or NV10 to comment on that, but based only on YouTube videos Kawai is clear winner


IMO on CA98 it's not too boomy. It's very nice, clear and warm. Ok it CAN be boomy when playing lots of notes in bass with sustain but that's how it suposed to be. And remember to use "wall eq" option when testing.
Each piano has it's own characteristics and merits and in a way I like them all smile I really want to test N1X.

Page 27 of 176 1 2 25 26 27 28 29 175 176

Moderated by  Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
(ad) SWEETWATER Cyber Sale
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Roland LX706 Review
by Colin Miles - 12/04/20 06:41 AM
Best Headphones for Digital Piano - your experience
by lukasz-zsakul - 12/04/20 05:10 AM
Is the Hailun 218 solid spruce?
by Sonepica - 12/04/20 04:55 AM
Schiff talked about Bartók's style of playing
by symphonicdance - 12/04/20 01:46 AM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics203,255
Posts3,030,394
Members99,475
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2020 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4