2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
63 members (ambrozy, 36251, Antho123, anotherscott, benelavance, bobrunyan, 19 invisible), 657 guests, and 531 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Old digital piano-worth it?
#2840028 04/17/19 01:04 AM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 4
D
dvuder Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
D
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 4
Hello all, I am trying to buy a digital piano in a baby grand cabinet but can’t afford 20k for the most expensive newest toys.

I found a Kurzweil152 (2008?)and a Kohler KD140 (2005). Both are said to be in excellent condition with no known functional issues and both are less than 2k, Kohler is somewhat cheaper.

Does anyone have any advice on these models?
Is it not recommended to get electronic models these old?

Thanks for your help

Col

(ad)
Sweetwater Gifts That Rock
Re: Old digital piano-worth it?
dvuder #2840032 04/17/19 02:10 AM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 374
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 374
I’m sure they’ll be fine if your primary purpose is to buy a nice piece of furniture, but as pianos they’ll be severely lacking compared to modern digital pianos.

Is your main goal the furniture or the piano? If it’s the piano, I’d suggest dropping the grand piano requirement; you can buy a very good digital piano indeed for that £2000/$2000 budget.



Chris

Yamaha P-515, Yamaha Reface CP.
Re: Old digital piano-worth it?
dvuder #2840035 04/17/19 02:15 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,999
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,999
I think nearly every piano sold is said to be "in excellent condition". Sellers are optimistic, right? And buyers have no way to assess the condition. That depends on the state of the parts inside, which are completely out of sight.

Kurzwel is still around. But not Kohler and Campbell. This was a maker of acoustic pianos until the name was sold (to Samick?). It was not known for its digital pianos.

Anyway ... both of these are way old. For $2000 you can get a modern digital. But digital in a baby grand cabinet? That will cost a lot.

Question: Do you care more about owning a good piano? Or about the grand piano furniture? Because at $2000 you cannot have both.

Re: Old digital piano-worth it?
dvuder #2840039 04/17/19 02:25 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,256
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,256
Originally Posted by dvuder
Hello all, I am trying to buy a digital piano in a baby grand cabinet but can’t afford 20k for the most expensive newest toys.

I found a Kurzweil152 (2008?)and a Kohler KD140 (2005). Both are said to be in excellent condition with no known functional issues and both are less than 2k, Kohler is somewhat cheaper.

Does anyone have any advice on these models?
Is it not recommended to get electronic models these old?

Thanks for your help

Col


Hi Dvuder,

This is a lot better as it reaches 128 note polyphony:

Roland KR-15

This one is a great deal

Roland GP607 PE

Kind regards,

Doug.

Last edited by Doug M.; 04/17/19 02:27 AM.

Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7SE; Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: Old digital piano-worth it?
dvuder #2840048 04/17/19 03:57 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,824
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,824
I completely get the concept of pianos as purely furniture. When my wife and I kept a flat in Shanghai, many of our friends had furniture grands of no particular make, as they were decorative. One particular couple without children had one and neither of them played piano. This was back before when I played, so I never tried it it myself, but I'm sure it would have been atrociously out of tune and not well regulated.

If the OP is interested in a piano as decorative furniture, I would suggest one of the many donation baby grand piano available online, such as via Craigslist in the US. If the OP wants both a piece of decorative furniture and something to play piano on, I suggest one of each - a donor piece of furniture, and an inexpensive modern digital such as an Roland FP30.

If the OP is a bit more handy, they could of course buy a donor baby grand piece of furniture, pull its action out and replace it with a small slab digital that fits that slot. Google for this as it appears there are a few DIY projects like this. It's actually not very involved. A basic conversion will not require a lot of skill, will call for the simplest tools and might only take 2-3 hours.


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Old digital piano-worth it?
dvuder #2840085 04/17/19 06:39 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 3,583
P
3000 Post Club Member
Online Content
3000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 3,583
There are pianists starving all over the world, yet some people still own pianos for decorative purposes. If I had an MRI machine as the centerpiece of my living room (for decorative purposes), imagine how many people, in this sad planet of ours, would go undiagnosed whilst I show off my acquisition.
I vote for banning pianos as decorative items!
Who’s with me? grin

Re: Old digital piano-worth it?
dvuder #2840099 04/17/19 07:33 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,999
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,999
When I bought my first upright I insisted on the polished ebony finish ... to look good in my living room.
When I later bought a digital console I insisted on the polished ebony finish ... to look good in my living room.
I'll likely replace the digital in a couple of years (maybe an NV10 ?) with that polished ebony finish ... to look good in my living room.

A piano is furniture and a piano is decorative and a piano is a musical instrument.
I insist on all of these things.

BTW ... my piano purchase preferences have not resulted in any starvation nor in any undiagnosed illness. smile

Re: Old digital piano-worth it?
dvuder #2840121 04/17/19 08:33 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 614
K
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
K
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 614
Many people think the tops of pianos are great for pictures and plants. And a place for guests to put their drinks!


A long long time ago, I can still remember
How that music used to make me smile....
Re: Old digital piano-worth it?
Kbeaumont #2840123 04/17/19 08:38 AM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 69
P
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 69
Originally Posted by Kbeaumont
Many people think the tops of pianos are great for pictures and plants. And a place for guests to put their drinks!

You should be banned from the forum for such obsenity

Re: Old digital piano-worth it?
dvuder #2840125 04/17/19 08:42 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 3,583
P
3000 Post Club Member
Online Content
3000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 3,583
MacMacMac, I’m referring to people who don’t play at all (like some of Tyrone’s friends) grin and simply own a piano for decorative purposes.
Now, I wouldn’t mind a nice shiny piano, but its main purpose should be ‘instrumental’ in the pursuit of crafting something useful, like music, out of it.
I must say that Tyrone’s friends seem to be in the minority now, but back in the day owning a shiny piano for the sake of simply showing it off was a thing that the affluent indulged in.

Re: Old digital piano-worth it?
Kbeaumont #2840127 04/17/19 08:43 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 3,583
P
3000 Post Club Member
Online Content
3000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 3,583
Originally Posted by Kbeaumont
Many people think the tops of pianos are great for pictures and plants. And a place for guests to put their drinks!

mad

Re: Old digital piano-worth it?
Pete14 #2840129 04/17/19 08:46 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,824
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,824
Originally Posted by Pete14
I must say that Tyrone’s friends seem to be in the minority now, but back in the day owning a shiny piano for the sake of simply showing it off was a thing that the affluent indulged in.

I haven't seen this here in the US, but in China I think this might be part of the "Lang Lang, Yuja Wang, Li Yundi effect." Those with children send their kids for piano lessons. Those who are affluent enough but don't play piano themselves, buy themselves grand piano furniture as conversation pieces.


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Old digital piano-worth it?
Pete14 #2840130 04/17/19 08:47 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,824
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,824
Originally Posted by Pete14
Originally Posted by Kbeaumont
Many people think the tops of pianos are great for pictures and plants. And a place for guests to put their drinks!

mad

[Linked Image]


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Old digital piano-worth it?
dvuder #2840133 04/17/19 08:50 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 3,583
P
3000 Post Club Member
Online Content
3000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 3,583
Tyrone, did you just photoshop that! laugh

Re: Old digital piano-worth it?
Pete14 #2840134 04/17/19 08:51 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,824
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,824
Originally Posted by Pete14
Tyrone, did you just photoshop that! laugh

Wasn't me! grin


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Old digital piano-worth it?
dvuder #2840140 04/17/19 09:02 AM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 4
D
dvuder Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
D
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 4
Thanks for the replies

Yes, the baby grand idea is to have a good look also. yes I realize that from a functional piano standpoint it is in fact wasted money but to say we don’t make decisions with a view on looks is disingenuous. Take a look at all the nice looking cars everyone has paid too much money for when all that is required is 4 seats and a steering wheel.

That being said I guess the point of my question was to gauge the reality of whether these older electronic pieces have any real world deficits for an amateur. Are they likely to fail given how old they are? Is the reproduction of sound so much better in modern units, is more than 64 polyphony really going to change things unless you play professionally? That kind of stuff

I imagine at one point these were state of the art and people paid big money for them and thought they were close enough to acoustic to play and record with them.

Re: Old digital piano-worth it?
dvuder #2840141 04/17/19 09:05 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,268
J
Unobtanium Subscriber
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
Unobtanium Subscriber
6000 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,268

Start with a nice slab digital, say P515 or MP11SE, and a freebie junker acoustic baby grand from Craig's list. Discard the action and cheek blocks from the acoustic, and build the digital into it.

Measure the digital carefully and make sure there's going to be room for it before you pick up the freebie junker.


-- J.S.

[Linked Image] [Linked Image]

Knabe Grand # 10927
Yamaha CP33
Kawai FS690
Re: Old digital piano-worth it?
Tyrone Slothrop #2840151 04/17/19 09:30 AM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 60
J
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
J
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 60
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by Pete14
Originally Posted by Kbeaumont
Many people think the tops of pianos are great for pictures and plants. And a place for guests to put their drinks!

mad

[Linked Image]


"Where have all the flowers gone? Long time passing "

--- Pete Seeger

Re: Old digital piano-worth it?
dvuder #2840165 04/17/19 09:51 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,824
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,824
Originally Posted by dvuder
Thanks for the replies

Yes, the baby grand idea is to have a good look also. yes I realize that from a functional piano standpoint it is in fact wasted money but to say we don’t make decisions with a view on looks is disingenuous. Take a look at all the nice looking cars everyone has paid too much money for when all that is required is 4 seats and a steering wheel.

That being said I guess the point of my question was to gauge the reality of whether these older electronic pieces have any real world deficits for an amateur. Are they likely to fail given how old they are? Is the reproduction of sound so much better in modern units, is more than 64 polyphony really going to change things unless you play professionally? That kind of stuff

I imagine at one point these were state of the art and people paid big money for them and thought they were close enough to acoustic to play and record with them.

I don't think you will be happy with 20 year old action. After 20 years, even the lubrication will not be what it was when new. As I suggested above, and then JohnSprung further elaborated, you could just take a real grand and an inexpensive modern digital and get the best of both world's here. See his message and mine, above.


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Old digital piano-worth it?
Kbeaumont #2840182 04/17/19 10:38 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 8,693
8000 Post Club Member
Offline
8000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 8,693
Originally Posted by Kbeaumont
Many people think the tops of pianos are great for pictures and plants. And a place for guests to put their drinks!


And underneath was room for my little lad in his catapult seat . . . . .quiet when his mother played. She played often.


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

"[Linked Image]"
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
Our January 2021 Free Newsletter for piano lovers is here now...
---------------------
NEW! Sell Your Piano on our world famous Piano Forums!
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Replacing jack return springs on square Steinway
by Tesseract916 - 01/26/21 05:44 PM
Steinway spirio system recording
by danx16 - 01/26/21 04:22 PM
Group playing in a Linear/Contrapuntal style
by Dfrankjazz - 01/26/21 03:53 PM
Serial number lookup
by RealPlayer - 01/26/21 03:19 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics204,580
Posts3,051,957
Members100,230
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4