2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
Who's Online Now
47 members (Abdol, AprilE, 36251, DigitalSpace, Burkey, David Lai, 15 invisible), 414 guests, and 435 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Re: OT: Devastating News -- Notre Dame Fire
JohnSprung #2839725 04/16/19 12:20 AM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 124
J
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
J
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 124
Truly shocking to see the blaze destroying such a beautiful cathedral .I was just reading last week about the power struggle in the 11th century between Italy and France for the direction the Catholic Church would take. The whole world will feel the loss of such a special building in such a romantic city .

Re: OT: Devastating News -- Notre Dame Fire
JohnSprung #2839743 04/16/19 03:56 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,462
D
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
D
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,462
It seems that the three large rose windows which are special treasures have been saved. And it seems that most of the stone structure, including the vault, has been saved. We have to hope for the organ.

It seems that much of the wooden roof structure was mediaeval and is a great loss. But also, much of the wooden structure, including the spire, dated from the nineteenth century restoration.

So amid the tragedy there is cause to be thankful.

Re: OT: Devastating News -- Notre Dame Fire
David-G #2839758 04/16/19 04:55 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,375
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,375
Originally Posted by David-G
It seems that the three large rose windows which are special treasures have been saved. And it seems that most of the stone structure, including the vault, has been saved. We have to hope for the organ.

It seems that much of the wooden roof structure was mediaeval and is a great loss. But also, much of the wooden structure, including the spire, dated from the nineteenth century restoration.

So amid the tragedy there is cause to be thankful.

Our local organ builder commented that "... the heat and water damage would be the worst thing for the organ ..." and smoke. The majority of the pipes are lead/tin.


Alan from Queensland, Australia (and Clara - my Grotrian Concert & Allen Organ (CF-17a)).
Re: OT: Devastating News -- Notre Dame Fire
JohnSprung #2839781 04/16/19 07:38 AM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 573
S
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 573
I hear that the organ has been saved (post by Pianist magazine).


Pianist, independent music arranger, violinist, mother
Re: OT: Devastating News -- Notre Dame Fire
JohnSprung #2839786 04/16/19 08:13 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,824
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,824
All of this is good news (rose windows, organ, relics, stone structures, etc)! In the darkest days yesterday, it seemed like it would be much worse.


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: OT: Devastating News -- Notre Dame Fire
JohnSprung #2839834 04/16/19 10:57 AM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,069
B
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,069
It is indeed confirmed that the grand organ suffered only very minor damage and has been saved.

[Linked Image]

Re: OT: Devastating News -- Notre Dame Fire
Bosendorff #2839842 04/16/19 11:21 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,231
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,231
Originally Posted by Bosendorff
It is indeed confirmed that the grand organ suffered only very minor damage and has been saved.

[Linked Image]


Wonderful. I knew that the console was located at the front of the church near the bell towers, so there was a possibility it might be saved. Not so sure, however, about the pipes.


Mason and Hamlin BB - 91640
Kawai K-500 Upright
Kawai CA-65 Digital
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo
Re: OT: Devastating News -- Notre Dame Fire
JohnSprung #2839874 04/16/19 12:49 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 4,511
4000 Post Club Member
Online Crying
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 4,511
According to one of the organists at Notre Dame, it hasn't been damaged by fire or water, but it is covered in soot, and needs to be dismantled and cleaned.

Last edited by johnstaf; 04/16/19 12:51 PM.
Re: OT: Devastating News -- Notre Dame Fire
JohnSprung #2839893 04/16/19 01:35 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,383
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,383
Notre Dame de Paris is such a remarkable testament to faith, to human ingenuity, to craft, to art, to history and to culture that no human with a heart will fail to grieve over the partial destruction of such an iconic edifice.

Already, funds are being promised for the reconstruction project which could take years, even decades, to complete. In those efforts to reconstruct, one can only hope that the same inspiration that motivated the original architects, the artisans, the labourers, Victor Hugo, Viollet-le-Duc and others will prevail whatever the cost and effort.

In the meantime, while we must hope, one can only grieve with the French and the rest of the world over this tragic event.

Regards,


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Re: OT: Devastating News -- Notre Dame Fire
JohnSprung #2840046 04/17/19 04:20 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,375
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,375
Yes, great news. One blog which I subscribe to posted this YouTube - a track from a CD thought to be he last recording made on the Cavaille Coll (the major 1800s upgrade by them) Organ in Notre Dame.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_...zbChiVj1WXL52bv5CCD7XfEHrB4ZKSlH976p4Ol4


Alan from Queensland, Australia (and Clara - my Grotrian Concert & Allen Organ (CF-17a)).
Re: OT: Devastating News -- Notre Dame Fire
JohnSprung #2840101 04/17/19 08:54 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,321
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,321
I hope the restoration doesn't take a century to complete.

Re: OT: Devastating News -- Notre Dame Fire
MacMacMac #2840106 04/17/19 09:06 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,824
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,824
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I hope the restoration doesn't take a century to complete.

Macron is setting a five year goal, however professional architects have already spoken out that is is unrealistic and the rebuilding could actually take decades.


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: OT: Devastating News -- Notre Dame Fire
Tyrone Slothrop #2840109 04/17/19 09:13 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 3,487
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 3,487
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I hope the restoration doesn't take a century to complete.

Macron is setting a five year goal, however professional architects have already spoken out that is is unrealistic and the rebuilding could actually take decades.

I have read the same thing. It will probably take a long time.



[Linked Image]
Re: OT: Devastating News -- Notre Dame Fire
JohnSprung #2840155 04/17/19 10:36 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,268
J
Unobtanium Subscriber
6000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
Unobtanium Subscriber
6000 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,268

While a project like this restoration can be quite successful, one thing that is always impossible even after it's done, is to point to one moment in time or one task completed and say that that's the moment that all the work was over. What will happen is that a time will come when we look back and notice that not much more work is needed because of the fire damage.

Macron says five years, someone else even said three. While that won't be enough to really finish the job, it may be possible to partially re-open to the public in that time, much as the cathedral was open during the work that appears to have started the fire. There are other cathedrals that are open and in use with lots of temporary structural remediation visible. That may be Notre Dame's future for a few decades.


-- J.S.

[Linked Image] [Linked Image]

Knabe Grand # 10927
Yamaha CP33
Kawai FS690
Re: OT: Devastating News -- Notre Dame Fire
JohnSprung #2840173 04/17/19 11:11 AM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 115
R
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
R
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 115
When I saw Notre Dame burning ,I was thinking that everything would be lost paintings, statues, organs, stainded glasses,( and even the vaults ) all of our heritage and history ...

But as you mentioned above, most of the cathedral will be able to be restored.
The structure itself didn’t suffer too much.
The point is, of course, the definitive loss of the wooden framework made of oak
Coming from the middle age.
Something astonishing : the cock fitted on the top of the arrow that burned and collapsed has even been retrieved !

I hope ( and I’m sure ) thatt within 5 to 10 years, everything will be a bad souvenir.
like the cathedral of Reims that burned during the First World War or the cathedral of Chartres with its metallic framework. ( rebuilt after a fire in the middle of 19 th century ), a lot of important edifices suffered or were partially destroyed from bombing raids during the Second World War and now only minor “scares” testify of this past.
Thanks to donations, good organization and good wills the cathedral will retrieve its magnificence.

Re: OT: Devastating News -- Notre Dame Fire
rolex67 #2840175 04/17/19 11:17 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,824
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,824
Originally Posted by rolex67
The point is, of course, the definitive loss of the wooden framework made of oak
Coming from the middle age.
Something astonishing : the cock fitted on the top of the arrow that burned and collapsed has even been retrieved !

like the cathedral of Reims that burned during the First World War or the cathedral of Chartres with its metallic framework. ( rebuilt after a fire in the middle of 19 th century ), a lot of important edifices suffered or were partially destroyed from bombing raids during the Second World War and now only minor “scares” testify of this past.

I can almost guarantee that some of the burned items will be memorialized in glass cases in the rebuilt cathedral, including some of the 400 year old burnt oak timbers.

Originally Posted by rolex67
Thanks to donations, good organization and good wills the cathedral will retrieve its magnificence.

The donations/pledges have reached a billion euros!


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: OT: Devastating News -- Notre Dame Fire
Tyrone Slothrop #2840204 04/17/19 12:54 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,231
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,231
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I hope the restoration doesn't take a century to complete.

Macron is setting a five year goal, however professional architects have already spoken out that is is unrealistic and the rebuilding could actually take decades.

I would think that the first order of business (aside from general clean up) would be to ensure that the remaining structure is STABLE, and that the damaged roof is covered so that the interior of the cathedral will be protected from the elements. I would also assume that the damaged scaffolding related to the renovation would need to be carefully dismantled and replaced.


Mason and Hamlin BB - 91640
Kawai K-500 Upright
Kawai CA-65 Digital
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo
Re: OT: Devastating News -- Notre Dame Fire
JohnSprung #2840217 04/17/19 01:47 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,383
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,383
One interesting aesthetic and historic observation:

The "forest" - that structure of oak beams above the vault and below the roof, that structure that supported the roof of Notre Dame Cathedral - was made from (hundreds?) of individual oak trees. There is no forest extant in France that has oaks of the size that were used to build the "forest." That means that the cathedral can not be restored to replicate its original condition and appearance which, from the standpoint of construction, may not be a bad move.

There is talk that non-flammable modern elements should be used in the reconstruction resulting in a changed appearance of the cathedral. This would have historical impact, but one that is not without precedent. When other significant, historical structures have been damaged, repair has often used techniques that were more modern than those used to construct the original.

A classic example of this in medieval architecture is Chartres Cathedral. The south spire of Chartres Cathedral was completed around 1160, and the cathedral was consecrated in 1260. The north spire that we see now, in a totally different style was completed in the early 16th century. It was rebuilt because the original north spire was destroyed by lightning in 1506. Not only aesthetics but also construction techniques had changed, and at Chartres we now see a cathedral that no longer resembles the original.

[Linked Image]

The same aesthetic fate may befall Notre Dame de Paris.

Regards,



BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Re: OT: Devastating News -- Notre Dame Fire
JohnSprung #2840226 04/17/19 02:00 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,383
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,383
A better view of the two towers of Chartres Cathedral, which I took in 2014:

[Linked Image]

Regards,


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Re: OT: Devastating News -- Notre Dame Fire
BruceD #2840232 04/17/19 02:35 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,824
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,824
Originally Posted by BruceD
The "forest" - that structure of oak beams above the vault and below the roof, that structure that supported the roof of Notre Dame Cathedral - was made from (hundreds?) of individual oak trees.

1300. Each beam was made from a separate tree.

Originally Posted by BruceD
There is no forest extant in France that has oaks of the size that were used to build the "forest." That means that the cathedral can not be restored to replicate its original condition and appearance which, from the standpoint of construction, may not be a bad move.

That may be, but there are old growth oak forests in the Russian Far East (Mongolian Oak). Wonder if this tragedy can transcend politics enough to be able to solved that way.


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Karsten Collection
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
Our October 2020 Free Piano Newsletter is Here!
---------------------
3,000,000+!
------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Just got a 1985 Baldwin L - thanks!
by goodloe - 10/22/20 11:35 AM
8DIO 1901 Upright Studio Piano - 76% off
by newer player - 10/22/20 10:19 AM
CLP-745 or CA-49 (CLP-735)
by Chris069 - 10/22/20 10:06 AM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics202,354
Posts3,016,186
Members98,986
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2020 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4