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Cost of rebuild Steinway Model D? #2839704 04/15/19 09:06 PM
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Coda9 Offline OP
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Could anyone who is more experienced buying a Steinway vintage piano offer an estimated cost to rebuild a model D Steinway 1936 ? I have been out of touch with playing classical piano for about 20 years and would value observations from any of you who own vintage Steinway instruments ... did you have a tech inspect them before buying , did you buy vintage instrument and then gradually rebuild — or did you have to rebuild done completely all at once ?
Any advice on how to assaess sound potential in 1936 mostly original condition Steinway model D would also be very much valued . My instincts suggest just playing pitches in the keyboards registers and assessing the instruments personality as much as possible in it’s unimproved condition —And maybe playing some chordal and arpeggiated passages that span the keyboard from bass to trouble from literature ...?

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Re: Cost of rebuild Steinway Model D? [Re: Coda9] #2839705 04/15/19 09:16 PM
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I'd certainly have a good technician inspect the piano. And I'd discuss it with a Steinway re-builder as well. Generally it's something you would do most at the same time - though some aspects could be staged maybe.

Being close to a century old, it might play OK, but "mostly original condition" would mean that a full rebuild would be imminent - and potentially much more expensive than purchasing the piano is.


Alan from Queensland, Australia (and Clara - my Grotrian Concert & Allen Organ (CF-17a)).
Re: Cost of rebuild Steinway Model D? [Re: Coda9] #2839706 04/15/19 09:27 PM
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Greetings,
A complete action, from the bottom of the pedals to the top of the dampers, keeping the keys, key frame, and action frame, should cost near $12,500. The replacement of the soundboard, with new block and strings, plus all necessary bridge work, could also cost $ 12-15K, and the refinishing could easily be another $ 5-8k.

You may have a good soundboard, (but the odds are slim), and the case might be acceptable for what you want to do, but I can guarantee the action will be long past its original ability.
Regards,
Ed Foote RPT

Re: Cost of rebuild Steinway Model D? [Re: Coda9] #2839744 04/16/19 02:59 AM
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joe80 Offline
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The concert hall here in Dundee, Scotland, had their Hamburg Steinway D restored this year. The work included a new pin block, but it was the original keyboard and original soundboard. There was a new top-action installed, the piano was restrung, and that included all the bridge work, felting, varnishing, etc. The cost was about £35,000 and Steinway Hamburg and London did the work.

A local theatre had their 1965 Steinway D restored by another workshop who put a new Steinway action and keyboard in, and a new soundboard with the original bridges. The case was repolyestered in Poland as far as I know. The cost was about £35,000 which is a bit cheaper but it was 5 years ago.

Both pianos sound quite different, both sound like Steinway Ds but the one with the new soundboard has a more projecting sound. They're both very good and of course it's difficult to compare them in different venues.

I can't speak for the cost of rebuilding pianos in the USA and I have no idea what might need done to your particular piano. Over here we have quite a few Steinways with soundboards well in tact because our climate is very stable. It gets a little dry in the winter and a little humid in the summer, but no terrible swings.

Re: Cost of rebuild Steinway Model D? [Re: Coda9] #2839746 04/16/19 03:00 AM
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- oh and as far as assessing the piano, well it takes an experienced technician to do that. All we can do as pianists is decide if we like/can live with the existing tone of the piano. An experienced technician will be able to tell, to a degree, what they feel the piano needs and what they can do with the piano

Re: Cost of rebuild Steinway Model D? [Re: Coda9] #2839789 04/16/19 07:40 AM
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Restorations in my shop seem to hover between 12k -22k depending on what the piano needs and what condition its in. Most pianos that come to me need a new soundboard, the oldest one that didn't was from the 1970's. I wouldn't piece meal a restoration because there are so many integrated factors that have to work together to build a beautiful tone ( otherwise you'll just be disappointed). And pay more in shipping in the long run?

The restoration has to follow a plan from the beginning and to come up with a plan requires- inspection to know the pianos current condition, what you want the piano for ( Sound quality, Sound quality and looks, or just for looks) and knowing the proposed budget.

Since it's a Steinway, one thing to keep in mind is that they are made with a compression crowned soundboard system. Therefore, i recommend avoiding a Rib crowned soundboard system, and any frame structural alteration such as cut-off bars. They were also made with a cold pressed hammer (vs a hard pressed hammer) so a Steinway hammer or Ronsen Hammer would be the way to go (actually I think the Ronsens are better). Hybrid string scales have become popular recently and they can improve some pianos string scale problems. But on such a big piano like a D, just copying the original scale (along with the perceived imperfections) will yield great results.

BTW, the reason my prices are so low is that I operate on a different business model that most other outfits. No leased buildings or automobiles, no more than 1 trusted employee, and avoidance of big cities and their high cost of living. Just thought i'd throw that in there for the curious.

Good luck to ya!
-chris

Last edited by Chernobieff Piano; 04/16/19 07:41 AM.

Chernobieff Piano Restorations
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Re: Cost of rebuild Steinway Model D? [Re: Coda9] #2839855 04/16/19 11:06 AM
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Instead of buying a piano that needs to be rebuilt, it would be far safer to let a rebuilder buy it and rebuild it as a spec job. Many rebuilders do exactly that. Then you come in as a potential buyer with no obligation to accept the results of the rebuild. You can try several different pianos by different rebuilders. Rebuilding a client's piano is mostly done when the piano has sentimental value to the owner.


-- J.S.

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Re: Cost of rebuild Steinway Model D? [Re: Coda9] #2839865 04/16/19 11:32 AM
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Steinway NY is around 75k I believe to rebuild a piano like that but get a direct quote from them for a more specific number.

Better rebuilders for a complete Steinway D rebuild in the states including everything ( finish, board, keyset and action etc ) are going to be 50k - 80k.

Concert grands are by far the most difficult to rebuild successfully so make sure whoever you are working with has lots and lots of successful Steinway D rebuilding experience.

Steinway Ds are probably the number 1 piano we re-rebuild ( rebuilding someone else's recent rebuild that the client found unsatisfactory ). They are tough and most just have very little experience or reference for what makes a great D/ concert grand. Same goes for most manufacturers. There are builders making great uprights and 5'-7' piano who make decidedly mediocre concert grands.


Keith D Kerman
PianoCraft
Rebuilding & Sales - vintage and used Steinway, Mason & Hamlin
New Steingraeber, Estonia, Baldwin
www.pianocraft.net
check out www.sitkadoc.com/ and www.vimeo.com/203188875
www.youtube.com/user/pianocraftchannel

keith@pianocraft.net 888-840-5460
Re: Cost of rebuild Steinway Model D? [Re: Chernobieff Piano] #2839905 04/16/19 01:17 PM
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Chris, I will have to disagree with you on the use of Paulello hybrid wire on an instrument like a Steinway D. The D (by virtue of its size) lacks the scaling compromises in the low bass and lower tenor that we find in smaller instruments, but the opportunity to create a slightly different tonal aesthetic is there if the properly skilled rebuilder wants to take advantage of the differing wire types. While the largest Steinway I have rescaled has been an 1899 B, the results have been predictable through a number of Steinway models. I have seen three different D scales. The rescaler used Type O in the plain wire from note 21 to 51 in one, and up to note 65 in another. From there, Type M to 88 in one; in another, Type M 66 to 70, 71 to 88 is XM. The bass will be mostly M, with 4 notes of Type O in the lowest bichords.

The use of Type M, (the equivalent of Mapes or Roslau wire) would give you a fine result. The substitutions I have lain out will be no less pleasing to the ear. They will sound different and some ears will prefer that. To my ears, the pianos that I have done sound more balanced and blended, and of a piece. My customers have liked how their pianos sounded with these rescalings.

All this to say that this is an option that can be considered.

The Ronsen Weikert felt hammers, properly set up, give a better Steinway sound than the Steinway hammers do. On older Steinways these hammers more faithfully recreate the sound of old hammers.

Will Truitt.


fine grand piano custom rebuilding, piano technician and tuner
Re: Cost of rebuild Steinway Model D? [Re: Coda9] #2840026 04/16/19 10:55 PM
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When I was toying with the idea of having my Bluthner model 1 rebuilt I was very surprised at how competitive the quote was that I got from the manufacturer. My thoughts were that I shan't be around much longer and a piano rebuilt by the manufacturer was likely to be of more value to my estate than one rebuilt by anyone else.

In the end I didn't take the plunge, but might do yet.


Currently working towards "Twinkle twinkle little star"
Re: Cost of rebuild Steinway Model D? [Re: Coda9] #2840118 04/17/19 08:30 AM
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P W Grey Offline
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What's a measly $75k? Peanuts...😨

Pwg


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Re: Cost of rebuild Steinway Model D? [Re: Coda9] #2840160 04/17/19 09:47 AM
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It doesn't seem like all that long ago when the Hamburg Steinway D cost £75,000...... but actually that was 1998

Re: Cost of rebuild Steinway Model D? [Re: Coda9] #2840191 04/17/19 10:53 AM
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P W Grey Offline
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Specific cost should not be the main factor. Quality should be. Of course I think you already know this. Typically somewhere in the $35k-$50k range is where you're likely to end up for an instrument like that. All depends on what is needed and what gets done. It's mostly about the details.

Pwg


Peter W. Grey, RPT
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: Cost of rebuild Steinway Model D? [Re: joe80] #2840192 04/17/19 10:54 AM
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All of your replies have been fascinating and I am thanking you all for your experienced insight ... and the perspective of a new Hamburg steinway costing $75,000 in 1998 —20 years ago !
Searching the Internet on the topic of restoration demo Steinway model D , I ran across a YouTube presentation of restoring the Dunbarton Oaks 1927 Steinway D . Mr. William Truitt’s recommendation of Ronsen hammers as choice for vintage Steinway restoration seems to be the same consideration of the team working to re-create the original Tonal character of that historic 1927 Steinway D.
So now I am having a huge Caveat emptir feeling about the possibility of restoring a 1936 Steinway D . Apparently the finish is in very good condition but there’s so many other sound quality and mechanical functioning choices to consider funding .
Any advice about searching for a restoration crew experienced with Steinway model D’s in California or West Coast US ? I’m not sure I would want to focus on re-creating the original 1936 sound style. Piano needs to be very well functioning because I am practicing 4 to 5 hours advanced classical literature daily .

Re: Cost of rebuild Steinway Model D? [Re: Coda9] #2840197 04/17/19 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Coda9

Any advice about searching for a restoration crew experienced with Steinway model D’s in California or West Coast US ? I’m not sure I would want to focus on re-creating the original 1936 sound style. Piano needs to be very well functioning because I am practicing 4 to 5 hours advanced classical literature daily .


Dale Erwin of Erwin’s Piano Restoration Inc in Modesto, CA has an excellent reputation as a rebuilder, and he certainly has experience with Steinway D’s. Check him out.

Re: Cost of rebuild Steinway Model D? [Re: Coda9] #2840202 04/17/19 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Coda9
All of your replies have been fascinating and I am thanking you all for your experienced insight ... and the perspective of a new Hamburg steinway costing $75,000 in 1998 —20 years ago !
Searching the Internet on the topic of restoration demo Steinway model D , I ran across a YouTube presentation of restoring the Dunbarton Oaks 1927 Steinway D . Mr. William Truitt’s recommendation of Ronsen hammers as choice for vintage Steinway restoration seems to be the same consideration of the team working to re-create the original Tonal character of that historic 1927 Steinway D.
So now I am having a huge Caveat emptir feeling about the possibility of restoring a 1936 Steinway D . Apparently the finish is in very good condition but there’s so many other sound quality and mechanical functioning choices to consider funding .
Any advice about searching for a restoration crew experienced with Steinway model D’s in California or West Coast US ? I’m not sure I would want to focus on re-creating the original 1936 sound style. Piano needs to be very well functioning because I am practicing 4 to 5 hours advanced classical literature daily .


We were the team that was selected to restore the Dumbarton Oaks piano. For others interested, here is the video https://vimeo.com/203188875

FWIW, hammer choice is very important, but only one part of the equation. For instance, with the Dumbarton Oaks Steinway, we used weight measurements we had taken of nearly perfectly intact original Steinway hammers from a 1920s D. They were very very light! In experimenting with that very light hammer weight, it was determined that a heavier hammer ( but still lighter than the out of the box Ronsens ) would be preferable for the high level artists performing on the instrument and for the concert room's acoustics. A choice was made by all involved to fudge a bit on the authenticity ( very light hammers ) for the sake of performance and the very high level pianists who perform on that instrument. So while ultimately the hammers were lighter than what you would find on a current Steinway, they were heavier than what was originally there.

After the hammer weight is chosen, there is lots more tone building and voicing etc etc to be done.


Keith D Kerman
PianoCraft
Rebuilding & Sales - vintage and used Steinway, Mason & Hamlin
New Steingraeber, Estonia, Baldwin
www.pianocraft.net
check out www.sitkadoc.com/ and www.vimeo.com/203188875
www.youtube.com/user/pianocraftchannel

keith@pianocraft.net 888-840-5460
Re: Cost of rebuild Steinway Model D? [Re: SMA55] #2840210 04/17/19 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by SMA55
Originally Posted by Coda9

Any advice about searching for a restoration crew experienced with Steinway model D’s in California or West Coast US ? I’m not sure I would want to focus on re-creating the original 1936 sound style. Piano needs to be very well functioning because I am practicing 4 to 5 hours advanced classical literature daily .


Dale Erwin of Erwin’s Piano Restoration Inc in Modesto, CA has an excellent reputation as a rebuilder, and he certainly has experience with Steinway D’s. Check him out.


Before I was fortunate to acquire my D at 9 months old in March of 2006, I was actually trying to negotiate on a 1927 D that Dale had rebuilt. It was being shown at the old David Abell piano store in Beverly Hills but was under ownership of Keyboard Concepts.

It was a total rebuild, new board, etc etc. I went down there a good 4-5 times over a three month period to play it. It was quite fabulous from what I recall but I couldn't get Dennis Hagerty (KC owner) and Dale to come down anywhere near the price the 2005 D was selling for from a private party..

13 years later, I have no regrets. In fact I wonder if that Franken- Steinway would still speak to me as mine does with all original Steinway parts 13 years later.

Through the years I've played many rebuilt Steinways - although not Ds, mostly Bs and smaller- by different heralded builders here in LA. Not one I would've cared to own. But I would check out Dale for certain.

That said, the D that Keith and Pianocraft rebuilt 2 years ago sounds out of this world ! They would certainly be a major consideration if I were doing something like this.




https://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

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Re: Cost of rebuild Steinway Model D? [Re: Coda9] #2840223 04/17/19 12:56 PM
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For the record, it was a 1928 D that Dale restored, not a '27 like I originally posted. Taken from the Referral section of Dale's site :

“The concert Saturday afternoon at the Cal State Conference was like nothing I can remember. Maybe I need to get out more. Richard Glazier playing a ‘28 S&S D restored by Dale Erwin with a new board. Just the piano and artist, no amplification, no other instruments or vocals. The piano filled the auditorium beautifully as it was designed to do. I think I had forgotten the power that a piano can have. I’m so proud to know Dale and to be able to
call myself his student.

I played the piano before the concert, I’ve also played it at Dale’s shop. All different rooms, each giving the piano a different sound. The piano is a joy to play, so easy. In the auditorium 30 feet out it was a completely different instrument again, sounding as it should, in it’s role of filling an auditorium. The bass had a beautiful growl to it and all registers were well balanced. The killer octave sounded like I think it should. Voicing was right down the middle.

More important the artist was able to completely meld with
the piano. No action saturation, no distortion, absolute power, striking the keys from 3 feet above them, down to beautiful melodic passages that went straight to the back of the hall.

Hat’s off to you, Dale. *Your ‘D’ was the star of the show.”

Fenton Murray, RPT


https://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D
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Re: Cost of rebuild Steinway Model D? [Re: Coda9] #2840247 04/17/19 03:18 PM
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I'll second the motion on Dale Erwin. One of the nicest human beings you will ever meet, and one of the best rebuilders in the country. Dale spent a fair amount of time in the near past working with Ray Negron as he was beginning to offer the Weikert and Wurzen felts for the hammers he makes at Ronsen.

to the pianists out there: What Keith describes about how the hammers were selected represents high level custom restoration. There is a large body of knowledge behind it, and significant skill in the preparation of the hammers (and how they are integrated with the rest of the action).

You will never get this kind of work out of the factory. Does it make a difference? You bet it does.


fine grand piano custom rebuilding, piano technician and tuner
Re: Cost of rebuild Steinway Model D? [Re: Coda9] #2840281 04/17/19 06:16 PM
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P W Grey Offline
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Second that! 👍

Pwg


Last edited by P W Grey; 04/17/19 06:16 PM.

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