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Re: It’s Not The Red Dot, It’s Me [Re: noobpianist90] #2839356
04/15/19 07:03 AM
04/15/19 07:03 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 3,025
Florida
cmb13 Offline OP

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Originally Posted by noobpianist90
@cmb13.........

Oh, and another useful thing to do is never to stop even though you make the "fatal" mistake, keep playing till the end. Even though it's a "recording", I would consider it as a "performance". It doesn't matter how long it takes for you to recover. As you keep at it, it'll get easier and easier to recover from mistakes. Sometimes (for slower pieces, at least), I can even predict that I'm about to make a mistake and prevent it.

Hope this helps smile

This seems be be a learned skill, not intuitive (at least not to me), and I am going to continue to work on it. Thank you


Steinway A3
Boston 118 PE

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Debussy Clair De Lune
Bach Inventions
Grieg Sonata - Andante molto

"You Can Never Have Too Many Dream Pianos" -Thad Carhart
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Re: It’s Not The Red Dot, It’s Me [Re: cmb13] #2839359
04/15/19 07:12 AM
04/15/19 07:12 AM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 4,442
Florida
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Originally Posted by cmb13
Originally Posted by noobpianist90
@cmb13.........

Oh, and another useful thing to do is never to stop even though you make the "fatal" mistake, keep playing till the end. Even though it's a "recording", I would consider it as a "performance". It doesn't matter how long it takes for you to recover. As you keep at it, it'll get easier and easier to recover from mistakes. Sometimes (for slower pieces, at least), I can even predict that I'm about to make a mistake and prevent it.

Hope this helps smile

This seems be be a learned skill, not intuitive (at least not to me), and I am going to continue to work on it. Thank you


I do think not stopping to correct is a conscious habit that needs to be developed. Just curious what you do during piano lessons? If you are playing a nearly polished piece through for your teacher, do you stop and correct if you make an error? I don’t .... but will just admit to the wrong notes when I finish. I think this has really helped when performance playing or recording. Maybe talk to your teacher about this as an idea.


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
" I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

It’s ok to be a Work In Progress
Re: It’s Not The Red Dot, It’s Me [Re: cmb13] #2839397
04/15/19 08:44 AM
04/15/19 08:44 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 558
India
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India
Originally Posted by cmb13
Originally Posted by noobpianist90
@cmb13.........

Oh, and another useful thing to do is never to stop even though you make the "fatal" mistake, keep playing till the end. Even though it's a "recording", I would consider it as a "performance". It doesn't matter how long it takes for you to recover. As you keep at it, it'll get easier and easier to recover from mistakes. Sometimes (for slower pieces, at least), I can even predict that I'm about to make a mistake and prevent it.

Hope this helps smile

This seems be be a learned skill, not intuitive (at least not to me), and I am going to continue to work on it. Thank you


If it is indeed a learned skill, I certainly didn't learn it consciously.

To give you more background, I started playing piano by ear / synthesia videos, and used to rely heavily on muscle memory while playing. When I relied overly on muscle memory, a small mistake felt unrecoverable. Since I started reading, learning theory, and doing analysis, my reliance on muscle memory has decreased substantially. Over time, I've been able to overcome most of the challenges I faced, many of them subconsciously. This is just one of them. I find no reason to understand why or how I overcome these challenges. Almost everything becomes easier if you keep at it long enough.

Re: It’s Not The Red Dot, It’s Me [Re: cmb13] #2839418
04/15/19 09:32 AM
04/15/19 09:32 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,954
Boynton Beach, FL
Morodiene Offline
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Originally Posted by cmb13
Originally Posted by Morodiene

I can relate to what you're going through - I've struggled with it for many years, so I'm not coming from a place of not understanding.

Do you know how a great opera singer handles singing a bad high note? I mean a note that everyone knows is off? It's the note *after* that is the most amazing sound, as if they just throw away the mistake and say, "No! Forget that, listen to THIS!"

A part of the performer's mind has to always be thinking of what's coming up next and not letting go of the picture of the piece in general.

Those places where it fell apart in your recording, can you create a compelling reason for the thing that comes after it? I like to think in terms of music being the soundtrack to a scene in a movie or a play. So what is the impetus for what comes during and right after those places that things fell apart? Then practice starting from various places around that getting right into the scene.

That’s a great suggestion and I will try to work on it. One issue though is it’s not the errant note that bothers me, but a totally botched chord that sounds like an explosion of dissonant noises in an otherwise quiet and melodious piece. Then I have to somehow recover, which requires getting my hands back to position from an unfamiliar starting place which might be in the middle of a tough measure, and if I’m hitting the right note after I recover but with the wrong finger, the next few notes get botched also. This turns a big mistake into a total disaster - that’s what I’m considering the fatal error. It seems there almost aren’t enough ways to memorize starting points to prevent this if it happens at random, in random spots. I suppose that the better I know the piece, thenlesss likely this is to occur.

Those spots you choose to practice starting from are frequent enough so when you botch something randomly, you may just skip ahead to. That may mean dropping a bunch of notes or even measures! It's OK, as long as you keep the flow of the piece going, most people won't mind (or even notice).

Another thing that's important is to keep your humor about it. If you can laugh at your silly little mistake, then it holds less power over you. You can shrug it off and move on. We get so serious when we perform, and it's not something we generally do when we practice and so when little mistakes happen because we've put so much pressure on being "perfect", we are thrown off at our fallibility when it comes shining through in all its glory.

Good friends of mine taught this to me, calling it "Sans-souci": without a care. If we play in this way, actually playing, then we enjoy every step of it, warts and all. smile

Last edited by Morodiene; 04/15/19 09:33 AM.

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Re: It’s Not The Red Dot, It’s Me [Re: cmb13] #2839422
04/15/19 09:46 AM
04/15/19 09:46 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 3,025
Florida
cmb13 Offline OP

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Thank you, sage advice as always. Relaxing and not taking myself seriously is something I could use some help on! I'll have to bring it up with my yoga teacher as well!! Appreciate the help smile.


Steinway A3
Boston 118 PE

YouTube

Working On
Debussy Clair De Lune
Bach Inventions
Grieg Sonata - Andante molto

"You Can Never Have Too Many Dream Pianos" -Thad Carhart
Re: It’s Not The Red Dot, It’s Me [Re: Moo :)] #2839477
04/15/19 12:10 PM
04/15/19 12:10 PM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 856
Upstate SC
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Originally Posted by Moo :)
I don’t think there are easy solutions. think it just takes a lot of time and a lot of practice!


So true with all things in piano.


Alesis Coda Pro
PianoVideoLessons.com Currently unit 4
Faber All In One -Level 2
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Re: It’s Not The Red Dot, It’s Me [Re: cmb13] #2839528
04/15/19 01:27 PM
04/15/19 01:27 PM
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 150
Detroit
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Detroit
Originally Posted by cmb13
...At least I kept going frown.

https://soundcloud.com/mcalb-clan/oct2

Why the frowny face?

I've never heard this piece nor heard of it. So wrong notes and omissions don't "land" on me. What I heard was a lovely, sensitive & poetic rendition of a nice piano composition. Pianists are much too hard on themselves. Perhaps we get this way from our teachers.

Stick to the music as in "musicality." That's what matters to most.


"the lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne." -- Chaucer.
Re: It’s Not The Red Dot, It’s Me [Re: cmb13] #2839556
04/15/19 02:44 PM
04/15/19 02:44 PM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 534
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Pianoperformance Offline
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So many great advice here.appreciate.

I decided to do a red blinking recording on Bach Invention 8. I know I have applied slow practice, away from piano practice, read the score, sing the score, loop those trouble measures, metronome. Spent more time on a piece...I haven’t recorded for over 4 months..took some of the advice from above..and heck..yes, so much better. Ploughed through regardless. The key difference from previous recordings is that I got real intimate with the piece. The memorization came naturally [i was surprised] without effort. And then just let go, be in the zone, move your body if it helps. Gosh.


Dream came true : playing the piano
Kawai CS11/Yamaha Arius 161
lessons: 150 hours + counting
Re: It’s Not The Red Dot, It’s Me [Re: cmb13] #2839559
04/15/19 02:47 PM
04/15/19 02:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,654
Warsaw, Poland
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Warsaw, Poland
I'm learning this piece too and I tought your playing was quite good. The errors are barely noticeable. Just keep going...


[Linked Image]
Working on:
Mozart Sonata in G major, K. 283
Moszkowski Etude op. 91 no. 18
Chopin Nocturne in C-sharp minor, op. posth.
Re: It’s Not The Red Dot, It’s Me [Re: cmb13] #2839562
04/15/19 02:54 PM
04/15/19 02:54 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 431
Brittany, France
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I probably have the opposite problem in that I carry on with playing and just try to remember where I've gone wrong for the next time. This is possibly because when playing I don't have people 'listening' but usually somebody can hear, whilst reading or doing something else, so it's just background music to them. Non-critical listening, so if I've missed a few notes here and there nobody cares as long as it sounds like music. And, to be perfectly honest, I play because I want to enjoy the music and I'd rather not disrupt the flow, so catastrophic mistakes aside that ruin it for me, I just continue.
So possibly a way to treat it as if playing background music - nobody minds the odd mistake as long as it isn't too glaring, they don't know the score and the piece in intricate detail, so as long as the sense is conveyed they are quite happy. Imagine playing to a group of diners, perhaps, at a restaurant, who just want to hear some music. They want to enjoy, not criticize, so your 'interpretation may not be 'standard' - but it's music. However, it is useful I think to develop some kind of 6th sense that tells you that the fingers are going to do something really daft and be able to hold back or fudge it.
No, I don't advise playing like I do, but it is another approach that may help 'when used in moderation.'


regards
Pete
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