2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.9 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Free Trial
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

Who's Online Now
35 registered members (Animisha, CharlesXX, dima5222, AB99, Bett, clothearednincompo, David B, 6 invisible), 255 guests, and 503 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 3 of 3 1 2 3
Re: It’s Not The Red Dot, It’s Me [Re: noobpianist90] #2839356 04/15/19 06:03 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 3,673
cmb13 Offline OP
Silver Level
3000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
Silver Level
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 3,673
Originally Posted by noobpianist90
@cmb13.........

Oh, and another useful thing to do is never to stop even though you make the "fatal" mistake, keep playing till the end. Even though it's a "recording", I would consider it as a "performance". It doesn't matter how long it takes for you to recover. As you keep at it, it'll get easier and easier to recover from mistakes. Sometimes (for slower pieces, at least), I can even predict that I'm about to make a mistake and prevent it.

Hope this helps smile

This seems be be a learned skill, not intuitive (at least not to me), and I am going to continue to work on it. Thank you


Steinway A3
Boston 118 PE

YouTube

Working On
Chopin Nocturne E min
Bach Inventions

"You Can Never Have Too Many Dream Pianos" -Thad Carhart
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Re: It’s Not The Red Dot, It’s Me [Re: cmb13] #2839359 04/15/19 06:12 AM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,550
dogperson Offline
Silver Subscriber
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
Silver Subscriber
5000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,550
Originally Posted by cmb13
Originally Posted by noobpianist90
@cmb13.........

Oh, and another useful thing to do is never to stop even though you make the "fatal" mistake, keep playing till the end. Even though it's a "recording", I would consider it as a "performance". It doesn't matter how long it takes for you to recover. As you keep at it, it'll get easier and easier to recover from mistakes. Sometimes (for slower pieces, at least), I can even predict that I'm about to make a mistake and prevent it.

Hope this helps smile

This seems be be a learned skill, not intuitive (at least not to me), and I am going to continue to work on it. Thank you


I do think not stopping to correct is a conscious habit that needs to be developed. Just curious what you do during piano lessons? If you are playing a nearly polished piece through for your teacher, do you stop and correct if you make an error? I don’t .... but will just admit to the wrong notes when I finish. I think this has really helped when performance playing or recording. Maybe talk to your teacher about this as an idea.


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
" I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

It’s ok to be a Work In Progress
Re: It’s Not The Red Dot, It’s Me [Re: cmb13] #2839397 04/15/19 07:44 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 566
N
noobpianist90 Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
N
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 566
Originally Posted by cmb13
Originally Posted by noobpianist90
@cmb13.........

Oh, and another useful thing to do is never to stop even though you make the "fatal" mistake, keep playing till the end. Even though it's a "recording", I would consider it as a "performance". It doesn't matter how long it takes for you to recover. As you keep at it, it'll get easier and easier to recover from mistakes. Sometimes (for slower pieces, at least), I can even predict that I'm about to make a mistake and prevent it.

Hope this helps smile

This seems be be a learned skill, not intuitive (at least not to me), and I am going to continue to work on it. Thank you


If it is indeed a learned skill, I certainly didn't learn it consciously.

To give you more background, I started playing piano by ear / synthesia videos, and used to rely heavily on muscle memory while playing. When I relied overly on muscle memory, a small mistake felt unrecoverable. Since I started reading, learning theory, and doing analysis, my reliance on muscle memory has decreased substantially. Over time, I've been able to overcome most of the challenges I faced, many of them subconsciously. This is just one of them. I find no reason to understand why or how I overcome these challenges. Almost everything becomes easier if you keep at it long enough.

Re: It’s Not The Red Dot, It’s Me [Re: cmb13] #2839418 04/15/19 08:32 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,215
M
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
M
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,215
Originally Posted by cmb13
Originally Posted by Morodiene

I can relate to what you're going through - I've struggled with it for many years, so I'm not coming from a place of not understanding.

Do you know how a great opera singer handles singing a bad high note? I mean a note that everyone knows is off? It's the note *after* that is the most amazing sound, as if they just throw away the mistake and say, "No! Forget that, listen to THIS!"

A part of the performer's mind has to always be thinking of what's coming up next and not letting go of the picture of the piece in general.

Those places where it fell apart in your recording, can you create a compelling reason for the thing that comes after it? I like to think in terms of music being the soundtrack to a scene in a movie or a play. So what is the impetus for what comes during and right after those places that things fell apart? Then practice starting from various places around that getting right into the scene.

That’s a great suggestion and I will try to work on it. One issue though is it’s not the errant note that bothers me, but a totally botched chord that sounds like an explosion of dissonant noises in an otherwise quiet and melodious piece. Then I have to somehow recover, which requires getting my hands back to position from an unfamiliar starting place which might be in the middle of a tough measure, and if I’m hitting the right note after I recover but with the wrong finger, the next few notes get botched also. This turns a big mistake into a total disaster - that’s what I’m considering the fatal error. It seems there almost aren’t enough ways to memorize starting points to prevent this if it happens at random, in random spots. I suppose that the better I know the piece, thenlesss likely this is to occur.

Those spots you choose to practice starting from are frequent enough so when you botch something randomly, you may just skip ahead to. That may mean dropping a bunch of notes or even measures! It's OK, as long as you keep the flow of the piece going, most people won't mind (or even notice).

Another thing that's important is to keep your humor about it. If you can laugh at your silly little mistake, then it holds less power over you. You can shrug it off and move on. We get so serious when we perform, and it's not something we generally do when we practice and so when little mistakes happen because we've put so much pressure on being "perfect", we are thrown off at our fallibility when it comes shining through in all its glory.

Good friends of mine taught this to me, calling it "Sans-souci": without a care. If we play in this way, actually playing, then we enjoy every step of it, warts and all. smile

Last edited by Morodiene; 04/15/19 08:33 AM.

private piano/voice teacher FT

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
Re: It’s Not The Red Dot, It’s Me [Re: cmb13] #2839422 04/15/19 08:46 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 3,673
cmb13 Offline OP
Silver Level
3000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
Silver Level
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 3,673
Thank you, sage advice as always. Relaxing and not taking myself seriously is something I could use some help on! I'll have to bring it up with my yoga teacher as well!! Appreciate the help smile.


Steinway A3
Boston 118 PE

YouTube

Working On
Chopin Nocturne E min
Bach Inventions

"You Can Never Have Too Many Dream Pianos" -Thad Carhart
Re: It’s Not The Red Dot, It’s Me [Re: Moo :)] #2839477 04/15/19 11:10 AM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 997
dobro Online Content
500 Post Club Member
Online Content
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 997
Originally Posted by Moo :)
I don’t think there are easy solutions. think it just takes a lot of time and a lot of practice!


So true with all things in piano.


Alesis Coda Pro
PianoVideoLessons.com Currently unit 4
Faber All In One -Level 2
Grateful Dead fan since 1987
Re: It’s Not The Red Dot, It’s Me [Re: cmb13] #2839528 04/15/19 12:27 PM
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 210
Fidel Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 210
Originally Posted by cmb13
...At least I kept going frown.

https://soundcloud.com/mcalb-clan/oct2

Why the frowny face?

I've never heard this piece nor heard of it. So wrong notes and omissions don't "land" on me. What I heard was a lovely, sensitive & poetic rendition of a nice piano composition. Pianists are much too hard on themselves. Perhaps we get this way from our teachers.

Stick to the music as in "musicality." That's what matters to most.


Beethoven Sonata #6 op 10 nbr 2
Scarlatti K. 466, 521, 434, 24 / Haydn Hob. XVI/35, 36
Mendelssohn Op. 54
Re: It’s Not The Red Dot, It’s Me [Re: cmb13] #2839556 04/15/19 01:44 PM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 561
P
Pianoperformance Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 561
So many great advice here.appreciate.

I decided to do a red blinking recording on Bach Invention 8. I know I have applied slow practice, away from piano practice, read the score, sing the score, loop those trouble measures, metronome. Spent more time on a piece...I haven’t recorded for over 4 months..took some of the advice from above..and heck..yes, so much better. Ploughed through regardless. The key difference from previous recordings is that I got real intimate with the piece. The memorization came naturally [i was surprised] without effort. And then just let go, be in the zone, move your body if it helps. Gosh.


Dream came true : playing the piano
Kawai CS11/Yamaha Arius 161
lessons: 150 hours + counting
Re: It’s Not The Red Dot, It’s Me [Re: cmb13] #2839559 04/15/19 01:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,654
Qazsedcft Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,654
I'm learning this piece too and I tought your playing was quite good. The errors are barely noticeable. Just keep going...


[Linked Image]
Working on:
Mozart Sonata in G major, K. 283
Moszkowski Etude op. 91 no. 18
Chopin Nocturne in C-sharp minor, op. posth.
Re: It’s Not The Red Dot, It’s Me [Re: cmb13] #2839562 04/15/19 01:54 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 528
P
petebfrance Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 528
I probably have the opposite problem in that I carry on with playing and just try to remember where I've gone wrong for the next time. This is possibly because when playing I don't have people 'listening' but usually somebody can hear, whilst reading or doing something else, so it's just background music to them. Non-critical listening, so if I've missed a few notes here and there nobody cares as long as it sounds like music. And, to be perfectly honest, I play because I want to enjoy the music and I'd rather not disrupt the flow, so catastrophic mistakes aside that ruin it for me, I just continue.
So possibly a way to treat it as if playing background music - nobody minds the odd mistake as long as it isn't too glaring, they don't know the score and the piece in intricate detail, so as long as the sense is conveyed they are quite happy. Imagine playing to a group of diners, perhaps, at a restaurant, who just want to hear some music. They want to enjoy, not criticize, so your 'interpretation may not be 'standard' - but it's music. However, it is useful I think to develop some kind of 6th sense that tells you that the fingers are going to do something really daft and be able to hold back or fudge it.
No, I don't advise playing like I do, but it is another approach that may help 'when used in moderation.'


regards
Pete
Page 3 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  BB Player 

What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
Our January 2020 Newsletter Available Online Now...
Free Piano Newsletter
----------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
AB Chase booklet
by BDB - 02/28/20 12:51 AM
Sharing a rare piece of piano history
by BDB - 02/28/20 12:49 AM
Access to acoustic piano
by Ruth CM - 02/28/20 12:44 AM
Lead sheets are harder than you think
by MichaelJK - 02/27/20 09:43 PM
Just Joined: Question--repetorie
by Phillip Mansfield - 02/27/20 08:12 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics197,219
Posts2,930,831
Members96,138
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2019 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3