2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.9 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Petrof Pianos
Petrof Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Karsten Collection
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Who's Online Now
34 members (amyram, Candywoman, Aare Havanese, Emery Wang, EPW, 11 invisible), 426 guests, and 385 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Re: Pramberger JP-208B
NotAnExpert #2832391 03/28/19 03:01 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,135
j&j Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,135
There’s a Piano Technician listing on the Piano World webpage I believe. Or do a local lookup of piano tuners/ technicians. Or call several piano stores and see who they recommend. Piano technicians have to take certification tests I think. I love Piano World because I’ll be corrected in a nanosecond if I’m wrong 😁. Keeps me very humble.


J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
Casio Privia PX-330
I save far better than I play!
[Linked Image]
(ad int) Petrof Pianos
Petrof Pianos
Re: Pramberger JP-208B
j&j #2832404 03/28/19 03:38 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 381
A
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 381
Originally Posted by j&j
Piano technicians have to take certification tests I think. I love Piano World because I’ll be corrected in a nanosecond if I’m wrong 😁


Took more than a nanosecond but... smile

Actually, there is no certification required to become a piano technician. Someone with absolutely no skills or aptitude at tuning or piano work could start a business, call themselves a piano technician, and start charging people money and there's no trade organization or certification board that could hold them accountable. It's one of the unfortunate realities of our field.

That said, in the PTG (Piano Technicians Guild), if you want to become a Registered Piano Technician you have to take a series of tests that prove your proficiency in various areas (tuning, repair/regulation, basic knowledge). Just because you're an RPT doesn't mean you're a good technician, so it's not a guarantee of quality, but it is at least an acknowledged standard in the field.

Last edited by adamp88; 03/28/19 03:38 PM.

Adam Schulte-Bukowinski, RPT
Piano Technician, University of Nebraska-Lincoln
ASB Piano Service
Re: Pramberger JP-208B
NotAnExpert #2832440 03/28/19 05:34 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,135
j&j Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,135
Adamp88 - thank you. Rather sad news. ☹️


J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
Casio Privia PX-330
I save far better than I play!
[Linked Image]
Re: Pramberger JP-208B
NotAnExpert #2834041 04/01/19 11:16 PM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 11
N
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
N
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 11
adamp88 -- That is discouraging. I'll have to take a look at the list j&j mentioned (thanks, j&j) to see if there are any in my area.

Re: Pramberger JP-208B
NotAnExpert #2834524 04/02/19 07:29 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 743
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 743
Regarding your Pramberger 208, I owned a Weber 208 (similar, but not exactly the same piano) built in the early 1990's.

I believe that the damper noise you are hearing is coming ONLY from the triangle shaped dampers in the bass and low tenor. It's caused, to the best of my knowledge, from the grain of the damper felt "scrubbing" against the string. It's one of the areas where "premium" pianos usually (but certainly not always) do not suffer from the same problem. They use a better quality felt, usually softer, with different "grain" characteristics.

I agree that damper regulation can help minimize the noise with the caveat that regulation MIGHT include trimming the triangular damper felts. I've not done this myself, and from what I've seen and heard, it's a bit of an art to do well, so be sure whatever technician you get has experience with it if you find this to be the problem.

Regarding the extra "twangy" noise - I suspect this is a problem only in the treble area of the piano. If I'm right about that, I believe it's caused by "ringing" in the non-speaking parts of the string near the bridge, and perhaps, behind the capo d'astro bar.

I believe these problems can be addressed, hopefully without a significant outlay of funds, and once fixed, you will enjoy the sound and the touch of your new to you Pramberger 208.

One PW Member's Opinion...


Andrew Kraus, Pianist
Educated Amateur Tuner/Technician
Rockville, MD USA
www.AndrewKraus.com
www.YouTube.com/RockvillePianoGuy
Twitter at @IAmAPianist

1929 Steinert 6'10" (Close copy of New York S&S "B")
Re: Pramberger JP-208B
NotAnExpert #2835259 04/04/19 12:32 PM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 11
N
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
N
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 11
Andrew, thank you!

Yes! I already was trying to zero in on the source of the damper noise, and it does seem to be the triangle shaped dampers. Some of them do not move simply up and down but rather from side to side a bit, thus brushing against the strings rather than simply moving off of them. Trimming the triangular damper felts sounds scary in that it is not able to be undone if it doesn't fix the problem or causes even more problems. Since the dampers seem to move from side to side, as if they are not aligned properly, I am wondering if the dampers actually need alignment rather than trimming. Do you know?

The twangy noise is in some of the notes lower than middle C but not on the lowest part of the keyboard. If the keyboard were broken into quarters, from left to right, it's probably the 2nd quarter.

Yes, hopefully this can be fixed without a significant outlay of funds. We spent a lot of money for this piano, and I kind of expected pure joy. frown

Re: Pramberger JP-208B
NotAnExpert #2835636 04/05/19 10:15 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 381
A
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 381
If the dampers are indeed moving a bit side to side and brushing against the strings as they lift, then damper alignment should fix the issue without having to resort to damper trimming. It shouldn't be too expensive to have your technician do this, though it is a bit of a tedious process (as many regulation processes are in a piano).

If the twangy notes are the result of poor damper alignment (sometimes if the damper wire is too close to the string, then when the string is struck it vibrates against the wire), then this work should rectify that as well.

Last edited by adamp88; 04/05/19 10:17 AM.

Adam Schulte-Bukowinski, RPT
Piano Technician, University of Nebraska-Lincoln
ASB Piano Service
Re: Pramberger JP-208B
NotAnExpert #2836289 04/07/19 02:57 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,000
P

Gold Supporter until November 11 2014
1000 Post Club Member
Offline

Gold Supporter until November 11 2014
1000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,000
Originally Posted by NotAnExpert

2. Some of the keys, when played p or even mp, sound harpsichordy in the background. That is, along with the "right" sound, there is an extra twangy sound going on that sounds like a spring. There are 5-10 keys in the lower half of the keyboard that do this. Not a pleasant sound. We didn't hear this in the store (obviously).



That's interesting. Friends of mine bought a Steinway B, with exactly that issue. The dealer's tech couldn't solve it, but the dealer hired a university (University Colorado- Boulder) tech to look at it and he largely solved it. I don't know how.

Like Seeker discussed above, I thought it might have to do with the non-speaking region of the string, in front of the capo/agraffe or behind the bridge, but damping those areas really didn't do the trick on this B. I'm curious too about what this is !


phacke

Steinway YM (1933)
...Working on:
J. S. Bach, Toccata (G minor) BWV 915
(and trying not to forget the other stuff I know)
Re: Pramberger JP-208B
adamp88 #2838607 04/13/19 04:18 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,000
P

Gold Supporter until November 11 2014
1000 Post Club Member
Offline

Gold Supporter until November 11 2014
1000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,000
Originally Posted by adamp88
If the dampers are indeed moving a bit side to side and brushing against the strings as they lift, then damper alignment should fix the issue without having to resort to damper trimming. It shouldn't be too expensive to have your technician do this, though it is a bit of a tedious process (as many regulation processes are in a piano).

If the twangy notes are the result of poor damper alignment (sometimes if the damper wire is too close to the string, then when the string is struck it vibrates against the wire), then this work should rectify that as well.


This would suggest this if we play a chord, press the damper/sustain peddle, and slowly release it, we should hear all the squirrelly sounds as the dampers start to touch the strings on any piano.
Anyhow, I'm interested to know from the original poster if this area was the problem.


phacke

Steinway YM (1933)
...Working on:
J. S. Bach, Toccata (G minor) BWV 915
(and trying not to forget the other stuff I know)
Re: Pramberger JP-208B
NotAnExpert #2838725 04/13/19 01:29 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,870
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,870
One question I do have is about the age. I believe that by 2005, Pramberger was owned and made by Samick, not Young Chang. I think the brand changed hands around 2002, but maybe Steve Cohen has a better memory of that time.

I didn't play many of the Young Chang Pramberger JP208's, but the few I did play did leave a good impression on me as an overall good piano.


Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
www.PianoWorks.com
www.youtube.com/PianoWorksAtlanta
Re: Pramberger JP-208B
adamp88 #2838836 04/13/19 06:46 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 743
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 743
Originally Posted by adamp88
If the dampers are indeed moving a bit side to side and brushing against the strings as they lift, then damper alignment should fix the issue without having to resort to damper trimming. It shouldn't be too expensive to have your technician do this, though it is a bit of a tedious process (as many regulation processes are in a piano).

If the twangy notes are the result of poor damper alignment (sometimes if the damper wire is too close to the string, then when the string is struck it vibrates against the wire), then this work should rectify that as well.


I hadn't though of damper alignment as being a potential problem. It's not one I've encountered though Adam S-P, working in an institutional setting, is likely to have encountered just about ANYTHING. I wonder if the piano spent a long time sitting on its side in storage, if that could have caused the damper wires to bend?

In any case - were I you, I'd get the damper regulation done, and if that solves the swooshing problem, HURRAH. If not, the trimming process, done properly, is reputed to work well. And, as a last resort, one CAN replace the damper felts with new ones.

As to the twang section of the piano, from what I read, it is the section just above the bass. I can't remember the scaling of that piano. Are there any wound bi-chord or tri-chords there in that section? If so, is there a twang with them, or just the plain wire tri-chords just above them in the scale? Where I'm going with the questions is that I wonder if some voicing of the hammers in that area might address the problem for you.

Meanwhile, good luck with the instrument. I hope you get it set up to your satisfaction. The 208cm design that I had was a very nice piano.


Andrew Kraus, Pianist
Educated Amateur Tuner/Technician
Rockville, MD USA
www.AndrewKraus.com
www.YouTube.com/RockvillePianoGuy
Twitter at @IAmAPianist

1929 Steinert 6'10" (Close copy of New York S&S "B")
Re: Pramberger JP-208B
NotAnExpert #2838932 04/14/19 02:40 AM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 494
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 494
Hi, I have a 2002 YC Pramberger JP185. It also had some of the problems you are seeing. Resolved by having the hammers and felt tweaked, and a couple of good tunings.

YC JP's are powerful and beautifully built but lacking in the touch found in professional grade piano. I like them more than they deserve just because of their huge personality.

I have a lot of fun with mine and it keeps me honest in my technical exercises because it's not going to make you sound good when you are not.


[Linked Image]

Piano is hard work from beginning to forever. Accept this as truth or risk a quick exit with tail between legs.


Re: Pramberger JP-208B
Tararex #2838935 04/14/19 02:51 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,000
P

Gold Supporter until November 11 2014
1000 Post Club Member
Offline

Gold Supporter until November 11 2014
1000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,000
Originally Posted by Tararex
Resolved by having the hammers and felt tweaked, and a couple of good tunings..


Tweaking the felt of exactly what component, if you please?


Last edited by phacke; 04/14/19 02:52 AM.

phacke

Steinway YM (1933)
...Working on:
J. S. Bach, Toccata (G minor) BWV 915
(and trying not to forget the other stuff I know)
Re: Pramberger JP-208B
phacke #2839220 04/14/19 09:04 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 494
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 494
Taking just the tiniest bit off of the damper felts where it was overreaching. The hammers were also filed and voiced. My piano sat in air conditioned storage for almost 10 years - it needed a lot of minor adjustments just to get it to the breaking in stage. The twangy sounds were repaired mostly via tunings - but it took four different tuners before I found one who knew what had to be done.


[Linked Image]

Piano is hard work from beginning to forever. Accept this as truth or risk a quick exit with tail between legs.


Page 2 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Hand Sanitizer for Musicians
Hand Sanitizer for Musicians
Musician's Hand Sanitizer available in our online store (and our Maple Street Music shop in Cornish Maine). Antibacterial, 62% ethyl alcohol. Hand Sanitizer for Musicians
Tons more music related products in our online store!
What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
Where Did The Buttons Go?!
----------------------
Our April 2020 Newsletter Available Online Now...
The Piano World During the Pandemic!
----------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
New Topics - Multiple Forums
New York reopening
by rkayorie - 05/29/20 10:04 PM
Recording Digital Piano ???
by Pianoworldstage - 05/29/20 10:02 PM
Consensus on tuning pins--blued or nickle?
by Erchoukyrie - 05/29/20 08:00 PM
Metronome search help
by Coda9 - 05/29/20 07:16 PM
Jesus molina
by Jitin - 05/29/20 06:24 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics199,274
Posts2,963,751
Members97,234
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2020 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4