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Re: Pramberger JP-208B [Re: NotAnExpert] #2832391
03/28/19 03:01 PM
03/28/19 03:01 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,019
Southwest
j&j Offline
1000 Post Club Member
j&j  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,019
Southwest
There’s a Piano Technician listing on the Piano World webpage I believe. Or do a local lookup of piano tuners/ technicians. Or call several piano stores and see who they recommend. Piano technicians have to take certification tests I think. I love Piano World because I’ll be corrected in a nanosecond if I’m wrong 😁. Keeps me very humble.


J & J
Yahama C3 PE
Casio Privia PX-330
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Re: Pramberger JP-208B [Re: j&j] #2832404
03/28/19 03:38 PM
03/28/19 03:38 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 332
Omaha, NE
A
adamp88 Offline
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adamp88  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 332
Omaha, NE
Originally Posted by j&j
Piano technicians have to take certification tests I think. I love Piano World because I’ll be corrected in a nanosecond if I’m wrong 😁


Took more than a nanosecond but... smile

Actually, there is no certification required to become a piano technician. Someone with absolutely no skills or aptitude at tuning or piano work could start a business, call themselves a piano technician, and start charging people money and there's no trade organization or certification board that could hold them accountable. It's one of the unfortunate realities of our field.

That said, in the PTG (Piano Technicians Guild), if you want to become a Registered Piano Technician you have to take a series of tests that prove your proficiency in various areas (tuning, repair/regulation, basic knowledge). Just because you're an RPT doesn't mean you're a good technician, so it's not a guarantee of quality, but it is at least an acknowledged standard in the field.

Last edited by adamp88; 03/28/19 03:38 PM.

Adam Schulte-Bukowinski, RPT
Piano Technician, University of Nebraska-Lincoln
ASB Piano Service
Re: Pramberger JP-208B [Re: NotAnExpert] #2832440
03/28/19 05:34 PM
03/28/19 05:34 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,019
Southwest
j&j Offline
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j&j  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,019
Southwest
Adamp88 - thank you. Rather sad news. ☹️


J & J
Yahama C3 PE
Casio Privia PX-330
Pianos - the reason God made trees!
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Re: Pramberger JP-208B [Re: NotAnExpert] #2834041
04/01/19 11:16 PM
04/01/19 11:16 PM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 11
Michigan
N
NotAnExpert Offline OP
Junior Member
NotAnExpert  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 11
Michigan
adamp88 -- That is discouraging. I'll have to take a look at the list j&j mentioned (thanks, j&j) to see if there are any in my area.

Re: Pramberger JP-208B [Re: NotAnExpert] #2834524
04/02/19 07:29 PM
04/02/19 07:29 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 565
Rockville, MD
Seeker Offline
500 Post Club Member
Seeker  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 565
Rockville, MD
Regarding your Pramberger 208, I owned a Weber 208 (similar, but not exactly the same piano) built in the early 1990's.

I believe that the damper noise you are hearing is coming ONLY from the triangle shaped dampers in the bass and low tenor. It's caused, to the best of my knowledge, from the grain of the damper felt "scrubbing" against the string. It's one of the areas where "premium" pianos usually (but certainly not always) do not suffer from the same problem. They use a better quality felt, usually softer, with different "grain" characteristics.

I agree that damper regulation can help minimize the noise with the caveat that regulation MIGHT include trimming the triangular damper felts. I've not done this myself, and from what I've seen and heard, it's a bit of an art to do well, so be sure whatever technician you get has experience with it if you find this to be the problem.

Regarding the extra "twangy" noise - I suspect this is a problem only in the treble area of the piano. If I'm right about that, I believe it's caused by "ringing" in the non-speaking parts of the string near the bridge, and perhaps, behind the capo d'astro bar.

I believe these problems can be addressed, hopefully without a significant outlay of funds, and once fixed, you will enjoy the sound and the touch of your new to you Pramberger 208.

One PW Member's Opinion...


Andrew Kraus, Pianist
Educated Amateur Tuner/Technician
Rockville, MD USA
www.AndrewKraus.com
www.YouTube.com/RockvillePianoGuy
Twitter at @IAmAPianist

1929 Steinert 6'10" (Close copy of New York S&S "B")
Re: Pramberger JP-208B [Re: NotAnExpert] #2835259
04/04/19 12:32 PM
04/04/19 12:32 PM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 11
Michigan
N
NotAnExpert Offline OP
Junior Member
NotAnExpert  Offline OP
Junior Member
N

Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 11
Michigan
Andrew, thank you!

Yes! I already was trying to zero in on the source of the damper noise, and it does seem to be the triangle shaped dampers. Some of them do not move simply up and down but rather from side to side a bit, thus brushing against the strings rather than simply moving off of them. Trimming the triangular damper felts sounds scary in that it is not able to be undone if it doesn't fix the problem or causes even more problems. Since the dampers seem to move from side to side, as if they are not aligned properly, I am wondering if the dampers actually need alignment rather than trimming. Do you know?

The twangy noise is in some of the notes lower than middle C but not on the lowest part of the keyboard. If the keyboard were broken into quarters, from left to right, it's probably the 2nd quarter.

Yes, hopefully this can be fixed without a significant outlay of funds. We spent a lot of money for this piano, and I kind of expected pure joy. frown

Re: Pramberger JP-208B [Re: NotAnExpert] #2835636
04/05/19 10:15 AM
04/05/19 10:15 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 332
Omaha, NE
A
adamp88 Offline
Full Member
adamp88  Offline
Full Member
A

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 332
Omaha, NE
If the dampers are indeed moving a bit side to side and brushing against the strings as they lift, then damper alignment should fix the issue without having to resort to damper trimming. It shouldn't be too expensive to have your technician do this, though it is a bit of a tedious process (as many regulation processes are in a piano).

If the twangy notes are the result of poor damper alignment (sometimes if the damper wire is too close to the string, then when the string is struck it vibrates against the wire), then this work should rectify that as well.

Last edited by adamp88; 04/05/19 10:17 AM.

Adam Schulte-Bukowinski, RPT
Piano Technician, University of Nebraska-Lincoln
ASB Piano Service
Re: Pramberger JP-208B [Re: NotAnExpert] #2836289
04/07/19 02:57 AM
04/07/19 02:57 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 972
CO, USA
P
phacke Offline

Gold Supporter until November 11 2014
phacke  Offline

Gold Supporter until November 11 2014

P

Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 972
CO, USA
Originally Posted by NotAnExpert

2. Some of the keys, when played p or even mp, sound harpsichordy in the background. That is, along with the "right" sound, there is an extra twangy sound going on that sounds like a spring. There are 5-10 keys in the lower half of the keyboard that do this. Not a pleasant sound. We didn't hear this in the store (obviously).



That's interesting. Friends of mine bought a Steinway B, with exactly that issue. The dealer's tech couldn't solve it, but the dealer hired a university (University Colorado- Boulder) tech to look at it and he largely solved it. I don't know how.

Like Seeker discussed above, I thought it might have to do with the non-speaking region of the string, in front of the capo/agraffe or behind the bridge, but damping those areas really didn't do the trick on this B. I'm curious too about what this is !


phacke

Steinway YM (1933)
...Working on:
J. S. Bach, Toccata (G minor) BWV 915
(and trying not to forget the other stuff I know)
Re: Pramberger JP-208B [Re: adamp88] #2838607
04/13/19 04:18 AM
04/13/19 04:18 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 972
CO, USA
P
phacke Offline

Gold Supporter until November 11 2014
phacke  Offline

Gold Supporter until November 11 2014

P

Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 972
CO, USA
Originally Posted by adamp88
If the dampers are indeed moving a bit side to side and brushing against the strings as they lift, then damper alignment should fix the issue without having to resort to damper trimming. It shouldn't be too expensive to have your technician do this, though it is a bit of a tedious process (as many regulation processes are in a piano).

If the twangy notes are the result of poor damper alignment (sometimes if the damper wire is too close to the string, then when the string is struck it vibrates against the wire), then this work should rectify that as well.


This would suggest this if we play a chord, press the damper/sustain peddle, and slowly release it, we should hear all the squirrelly sounds as the dampers start to touch the strings on any piano.
Anyhow, I'm interested to know from the original poster if this area was the problem.


phacke

Steinway YM (1933)
...Working on:
J. S. Bach, Toccata (G minor) BWV 915
(and trying not to forget the other stuff I know)
Re: Pramberger JP-208B [Re: NotAnExpert] #2838725
04/13/19 01:29 PM
04/13/19 01:29 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,742
Atlanta, GA
PianoWorksATL Offline
3000 Post Club Member
PianoWorksATL  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,742
Atlanta, GA
One question I do have is about the age. I believe that by 2005, Pramberger was owned and made by Samick, not Young Chang. I think the brand changed hands around 2002, but maybe Steve Cohen has a better memory of that time.

I didn't play many of the Young Chang Pramberger JP208's, but the few I did play did leave a good impression on me as an overall good piano.


Sam Bennett
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Re: Pramberger JP-208B [Re: adamp88] #2838836
04/13/19 06:46 PM
04/13/19 06:46 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 565
Rockville, MD
Seeker Offline
500 Post Club Member
Seeker  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 565
Rockville, MD
Originally Posted by adamp88
If the dampers are indeed moving a bit side to side and brushing against the strings as they lift, then damper alignment should fix the issue without having to resort to damper trimming. It shouldn't be too expensive to have your technician do this, though it is a bit of a tedious process (as many regulation processes are in a piano).

If the twangy notes are the result of poor damper alignment (sometimes if the damper wire is too close to the string, then when the string is struck it vibrates against the wire), then this work should rectify that as well.


I hadn't though of damper alignment as being a potential problem. It's not one I've encountered though Adam S-P, working in an institutional setting, is likely to have encountered just about ANYTHING. I wonder if the piano spent a long time sitting on its side in storage, if that could have caused the damper wires to bend?

In any case - were I you, I'd get the damper regulation done, and if that solves the swooshing problem, HURRAH. If not, the trimming process, done properly, is reputed to work well. And, as a last resort, one CAN replace the damper felts with new ones.

As to the twang section of the piano, from what I read, it is the section just above the bass. I can't remember the scaling of that piano. Are there any wound bi-chord or tri-chords there in that section? If so, is there a twang with them, or just the plain wire tri-chords just above them in the scale? Where I'm going with the questions is that I wonder if some voicing of the hammers in that area might address the problem for you.

Meanwhile, good luck with the instrument. I hope you get it set up to your satisfaction. The 208cm design that I had was a very nice piano.


Andrew Kraus, Pianist
Educated Amateur Tuner/Technician
Rockville, MD USA
www.AndrewKraus.com
www.YouTube.com/RockvillePianoGuy
Twitter at @IAmAPianist

1929 Steinert 6'10" (Close copy of New York S&S "B")
Re: Pramberger JP-208B [Re: NotAnExpert] #2838932
04/14/19 02:40 AM
04/14/19 02:40 AM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 493
Middle Georgia, USA
Tararex Offline
Full Member
Tararex  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 493
Middle Georgia, USA
Hi, I have a 2002 YC Pramberger JP185. It also had some of the problems you are seeing. Resolved by having the hammers and felt tweaked, and a couple of good tunings.

YC JP's are powerful and beautifully built but lacking in the touch found in professional grade piano. I like them more than they deserve just because of their huge personality.

I have a lot of fun with mine and it keeps me honest in my technical exercises because it's not going to make you sound good when you are not.


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Piano is hard work from beginning to forever. Accept this as truth or risk a quick exit with tail between legs.


Re: Pramberger JP-208B [Re: Tararex] #2838935
04/14/19 02:51 AM
04/14/19 02:51 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 972
CO, USA
P
phacke Offline

Gold Supporter until November 11 2014
phacke  Offline

Gold Supporter until November 11 2014

P

Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 972
CO, USA
Originally Posted by Tararex
Resolved by having the hammers and felt tweaked, and a couple of good tunings..


Tweaking the felt of exactly what component, if you please?


Last edited by phacke; 04/14/19 02:52 AM.

phacke

Steinway YM (1933)
...Working on:
J. S. Bach, Toccata (G minor) BWV 915
(and trying not to forget the other stuff I know)
Re: Pramberger JP-208B [Re: phacke] #2839220
04/14/19 09:04 PM
04/14/19 09:04 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 493
Middle Georgia, USA
Tararex Offline
Full Member
Tararex  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 493
Middle Georgia, USA
Taking just the tiniest bit off of the damper felts where it was overreaching. The hammers were also filed and voiced. My piano sat in air conditioned storage for almost 10 years - it needed a lot of minor adjustments just to get it to the breaking in stage. The twangy sounds were repaired mostly via tunings - but it took four different tuners before I found one who knew what had to be done.


[Linked Image]

Piano is hard work from beginning to forever. Accept this as truth or risk a quick exit with tail between legs.


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