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Sustained note and pedal #2838763 04/13/19 02:38 PM
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FrankCox Offline OP
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Why are those dotted half notes in the bottom C? My only idea so far is that it's intended to demonstrate continuity with the what's in the treble clef, but I don't understand how or if it's supposed to affect the sound that is actually played. There's no way anyone could hold that down and reach two octaves plus to hit the top note shown in that run in the bass clef, and as far as I know you'll get the same effect when holding the pedal down (as called for) anyway.

So is there a point to that note other than someone's idea of making it look balanced on the page?


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Re: Sustained note and pedal [Re: FrankCox] #2838775 04/13/19 03:02 PM
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FrankCox Offline OP
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The answer to my question that I just replied to with this subsequent question seems to have vanished between my reading his answer and writing this subsequent question.

The answer I was given is that the lowest C note is a different voice due to the downward facing stems on the notes and that I can obtain that effect using the sostenuto pedal.

Hence my follow-up question:

What difference would there be between holding both the sostenuto pedal and the sustain pedal (as called for) throughout both measure, versus holding the sustain pedal alone throughout both measures?

Or are you saying that this particular sheet music is intended for a piano plus another instrument that would be playing the lowest bass line?

Last edited by FrankCox; 04/13/19 03:05 PM. Reason: The post I replied to has vanished.

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Re: Sustained note and pedal [Re: FrankCox] #2838776 04/13/19 03:07 PM
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It's a conventional way of notating what the composer wants. Consider the left hand composed of two "voices" one being the rising C, G, C, G, C, G; the other being the sustained C through two measures: imagine a double-bass holding the low C, while the cello plays the rising figure. All need to be sustained by the damper pedal in order to sustain that low C.

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Re: Sustained note and pedal [Re: FrankCox] #2838781 04/13/19 03:17 PM
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You are correct that with the sustain pedal held down, the low C will be sustained whether or not a finger remains on it. Think of the two (tied) dotted half-notes as "book-keeping," i.e., there are two voices in the bass clef and both of those voices are accounted for by writing the bottom voice as a dotted half-note that is tied over to another dotted half-note in the next measure.


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Re: Sustained note and pedal [Re: FrankCox] #2838818 04/13/19 04:46 PM
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Take this with the grain of salt that my experience requires, but I'd play it differently than I would if there weren't any dotted half notes. Basically putting a bit more emphasis on the C to make sure you can clearly hear it throughout both measures. Not too loud that it overpowers the other notes, as lower notes are wont to do, but just a bit more than you'd usually give it.

I'm curious what more experienced players think about this and whether they would approach it similarly of differently.


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Re: Sustained note and pedal [Re: Keselo] #2838828 04/13/19 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Keselo
Take this with the grain of salt that my experience requires, but I'd play it differently than I would if there weren't any dotted half notes. Basically putting a bit more emphasis on the C to make sure you can clearly hear it throughout both measures. Not too loud that it overpowers the other notes, as lower notes are wont to do, but just a bit more than you'd usually give it.

I'm curious what more experienced players think about this and whether they would approach it similarly of differently.
There won't be any problem with the low C dying out too quickly even if it's not played with particular emphasis because low bass notes have a long sustain and the note is being held with the pedal.

OTOH just because the score indicates holding the note I don't think this means one has to hear it the whole time it's held. At least. I never thought of it that way.

Re: Sustained note and pedal [Re: Keselo] #2838830 04/13/19 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Keselo
Take this with the grain of salt that my experience requires, but I'd play it differently than I would if there weren't any dotted half notes. Basically putting a bit more emphasis on the C to make sure you can clearly hear it throughout both measures. Not too loud that it overpowers the other notes, as lower notes are wont to do, but just a bit more than you'd usually give it.

I'm curious what more experienced players think about this and whether they would approach it similarly of differently.


If you hold the pedal throughout then I would not intentionally play it louder. The exception when my teacher told me to do this only one and it was a very long for very 4 bar tie in this.



He also told me to play it louder and half pedal every bar. I cant remember why I was supposed to half pedal every bar as during the tie as this was the only time I've used a half pedal.

A very low not, for example, would be naturally sounding louder than the high ones so to bang out a bottom C because its a long time I feel would be more of an exception than a rule. I think it will depend on the phrasing and many other things and since we have no idea of the piece then I'm not sure you get a clear answer.

Re: Sustained note and pedal [Re: FrankCox] #2838832 04/13/19 05:17 PM
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I think in the example he repeats the low D to keep the sound but my teacher told me not to and to play it as written. So I'm not sure. In general I would tend not to play a very low louder if I was holding it with the pedal but it really depends a lot on the music what I'd do. There are no simple rules. What piece is the section from Frank ?

Re: Sustained note and pedal [Re: FrankCox] #2838849 04/13/19 06:47 PM
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IPlease ignore half pedal comment. I think what my teacher said to do for the 4 bar d flat what to do was come up half way up the pedal and go down. I think this is a compromise and is not what half pedal is. In any case this was discussed before and the conclusion was don’t worry about the sustain pedal too much as it’s either up or down. The other option was pedal as written and repeat the note every 2 bars and perhaps that is simplier.

Re: Sustained note and pedal [Re: FrankCox] #2838850 04/13/19 06:50 PM
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FrankCox Offline OP
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Quote
What piece is the section from Frank ?


It's the start of the Prelude from Romeo & Juliet (1968) by Nino Rota.


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Re: Sustained note and pedal [Re: FrankCox] #2838865 04/13/19 07:26 PM
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This is one of those cases where you just have to understand the convention of the notation. Don't overthink it. There is nothing special required, just use the sustain pedal (as indicated).

Sam

Re: Sustained note and pedal [Re: Moo :)] #2838902 04/13/19 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Moo :)
IPlease ignore half pedal comment. I think what my teacher said to do for the 4 bar d flat what to do was come up half way up the pedal and go down. I think this is a compromise and is not what half pedal is. In any case this was discussed before and the conclusion was don’t worry about the sustain pedal too much as it’s either up or down. The other option was pedal as written and repeat the note every 2 bars and perhaps that is simplier.


Its called flutter pedal, someone in my group piano class is learning this Liszt piece and the teacher says you need to flutter the pedal for those measures, meaning push the pedal up and down quickly but not let your foot off the pedal completely.


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Re: Sustained note and pedal [Re: FrankCox] #2838918 04/14/19 12:41 AM
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Nahum Offline
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Printed music shows 3 musical layers. It is not possible to use the pedal individually for each layer; however, it is possible (and necessary) to individualize by finger touch.


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