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So I am still debating between the PSR series and the MODX series of keyboards. I know the PSR-s775 has a great built in sequencer, but I'm worried it may not have as good onboard sounds as the MODX series keyboards.
So I am leaning towards the MODX, but the question is...does it have a good onboard sequencer for recording my music? And is there a big difference with its recording capabilities when compared to the PSR series?
You all have helped me a lot get this far, so I definitely appreciate the help on deciding between these two types of keyboards.
The MODX has simple MIDI recording capabilities but not, as far as I'm aware, any form of multitrack recording. It's primarily designed to be a stage performance synth, not an arranger workstation.
Just checked. No, no sequencer or editor on either the Montage or MODX, just a simple single-track MIDI (or audio) recording capability. These are assuredly not arranger workstations!
Hi! Are you sure, Chris? The Modx specifications page on Yamaha web site specifically says "16 sequence tracks". Now, that might mean something different to what you are talking about (i'm not an expert), but i'd find odd that Yamaha implemented a 16 track sequencer in the P515 or the CLP685 and it didn't in a synthesizer like the Montage or the Modx.
I believe the confusion is that the MODX does indeed let you overlay 16 tracks of recording, but it does not allow you to subsequently edit the tracks individually. It can record a multi-track performance, it's still a sequencer, but a limited one. It would need more editing functions to be a "fully functional" sequencer as many people would think of it. Instead, Yamaha provides free Cubasis software with the MODX, their idea being that full function sequencing would be done on the computer.
The appropriate section of the MODX user manual (pages 45-47) describes this and makes it clear that in no way is this a full-function sequencer.
Yes, if you have a specific definition of "full function sequencer" in mind and know what you're looking for... otherwise maybe not so clear. After all, those exact pages call the Performance Recorder a "sequencer" and refer to the saved data as "sequences" multiple times, including specifically saying, "this instrument features a Performance Recorder (built-in multi Track sequencer) for recording your keyboard performance as MIDI data." You have to go a bit further and infer what *can't* be done to fully recognize the limitations, exactly what it is that's missing and requires connecting to a computer.
Okay, my fault then. I simply didn't know there were those differences between a full and a non-full sequencer.
There are numerous kinds of sequencers. Whether something is a "full" sequencer has no official definition... I think your definition might just depend on whether it has the feature(s) you need. ;-) But there are phrase sequencers, and step sequencers... sequencers that incorporate audio recording vs. ones that are MIDI only... But calling a keyboard a "workstation" does imply that it has a multi-track *editable* sequencer, and the absence of that feature is presumably why Yamaha does not call the MODX or Montage a workstation.
Originally Posted by Cheshire Chris
I'd personally consider that editing capabilities are a basic requirement for something to be called a sequencer. Without that it's merely a recorder.
I guess why that's why Yamaha's official name for the feature is Performance Recorder, even though they define it as a type of sequencer. But it does have some enhancements over a simple recorder (i.e. punch in/out and overdub, though once you do the latter, you can effectively no longer do the former). Sometimes features don't fall into neat categories...
Thx everyone for the replies on this. It sounds like I'll be going for the PSR-s775 from what I've learned from you.
Does anyone know if there is a big sound difference between the MODX and the PSR-S775?
If no sounds difference, I think I'm definitely leaning towards the PSR-S775 for that full sequencer. I'm really tired of messing with PC software to be honest so to be able to record a complete song right on the keyboard is a huge featuee for me.
In terms of conventional orchestral instruments, I'd say they're comparable. Where a synthesiser win out, of course, is in its ability to create new sounds - eg as used in modern dance music. If that type of "electronic" sound is not important to you, go for the PRS; it sounds as if it'll meet your requirements a lot better.
Do you have nowhere reasonably local that you could try the instruments for yourself? That would perhaps be the best thing to do, if it's feasible.
Where the MODX comes in is the way that it integrates with an ipad or Daw..
I would say, get a windowstablet, attach it to the modx, install any DAW software (modx comes with Cubasis) and start creating... if dome right, the external software will feel as integrated part of the MOdx, much like a 2nd screen.
I dont think you want to rely fully on hardware for song composing. A combination of both hardware and software is the most convenient way to go..
And the software comes in all levels, from easy to expert level..
Where MODX rocks in combination with a DAW, is its arpeggio's that can be quite helpfull in recording of patterns .. nothing comes close to Yamaha's arps for realisme.
There are numerous kinds of sequencers. Whether something is a "full" sequencer has no official definition... I think your definition might just depend on whether it has the feature(s) you need. ;-) But there are phrase sequencers, and step sequencers... sequencers that incorporate audio recording vs. ones that are MIDI only... But calling a keyboard a "workstation" does imply that it has a multi-track *editable* sequencer, and the absence of that feature is presumably why Yamaha does not call the MODX or Montage a workstation.
Thank you. That's's an interesting piece of information. To me, a sequencer was something that allowed you to record a track while listening to the one(s) previously recorded. With that definition everything is a sequencer. I now know that things can be way more complex, and that other definitions leave out the one in the Modx (and the P515, by the way). The PSR 775 has more sophisticated capabilities, like the step recording, which seem quite useful...
Where the MODX comes in is the way that it integrates with an ipad or Daw..
I would say, get a windowstablet, attach it to the modx, install any DAW software (modx comes with Cubasis) and start creating... if dome right, the external software will feel as integrated part of the MOdx, much like a 2nd screen.
Interesting, I will have to check this out and thx for the suggestion. Do you know if there is a limitation on how many MIDI tracks I can create using the DAW software and MODX combination?
Ryan, given that you specifically said that you wanted an arranger workstation and didn't want to mess with PCs, etc, would it not be sensible to concentrate on self-contained arranger workstations rather than looking at stage synths? They really are a completely different type of instrument!
Ryan, given that you specifically said that you wanted an arranger workstation and didn't want to mess with PCs, etc, would it not be sensible to concentrate on self-contained arranger workstations rather than looking at stage synths? They really are a completely different type of instrument!
Yup, very true. I really do hate messing with the PC and software to be honest. The only thing holding me back now are the string sounds on the PSR-s775. Is there anyway to import high quality string sounds into the PSR? I created another thread on this on the forums but figured I would ask here too.
I used to also record with EastWest Hollywood strings on my PC, which were super high quality strings so if I can get these types of strings onto the PSR that would be awesome. Anyway to do this?
Those VSTs use gigabytes of samples, most keyboards can't handle such large sample sets.
If the PSR-775 lets you load user custom samples, there are programs that allow you to sample your VST sounds to create versions you can load in to keyboards that permit custom user samples, the results can be quite usable, if you don't need too much. Look at Sample Robot, Mainstage Auto Sampler, Extreme Sample Converter, Samplit.
If PSR-775 doesn't permit custom samples, you could check out Korg arrangers (PA700, PA1000), I think they do. If you don't need arranger features per se, but just a multitrack editable sequencer, there are other keyboards you can look into. If you like Yamaha sounds, you could look to pick up a used MOXF (predecessor to MODX) with its optional flash card. Unlike the MODX, the MOXF had a full traditional multitrack editable sequencer, and there are also additional downloadable string libraries available for it.
So I am still debating between the PSR series and the MODX series of keyboards. I know the PSR-s775 has a great built in sequencer, but I'm worried it may not have as good onboard sounds as the MODX series keyboards.
So I am leaning towards the MODX, but the question is...does it have a good onboard sequencer for recording my music? And is there a big difference with its recording capabilities when compared to the PSR series?
You all have helped me a lot get this far, so I definitely appreciate the help on deciding between these two types of keyboards.
You can buy a used MOXF instead of MODX if you don't need the FM engine.
My humble guess is that a typical Yamaha arranger doesn't have a comparable sequencer. It works with modifying chords aka accompaniment system.
PSR series don't have the voice creation capabilities in MOXF series either. Yamaha has a specific way of removing features from their product (for some unknown reason).
The samples on PSR series are much less detailed compared to MOXF or MODX. You can try the Cello samples on PSR 970 and MOTIF XF and you'll immediately realize that the PSR lacks many samples in the lower registers.
The only arranger keyboard from Yamaha which has comparable samples in it is Tyros/Genos.
If you're looking for an accompaniment module, you can look into Rolands bk7m.
Yamaha also used to make sequencers which had accompaniment capabilities:
The best sequencer Yamaha ever produced is QY700! It was developed a decade before MOTIF series (90's). Yamaha later scraped off some of its features and put it in its synths. The MOTIF XF's sequencer is the watered down version of QY700.
Anyway, I never understood why Yamaha discontinued some of its best hardware.
MODX doesn't have a sequencer but you can use "Cubasis" if you have an ipad. Cubase or MainStage are two other options.
Certainly the PSR range doesn’t have samples as good as those of the Genos, but I was playing one this morning and, to my ear at least, the voices on the PSR sound excellent. If one has limitless funds, the choice is clear, buy the Genos. If one’s means are more modest, though, to my mind the PSR is a great choice. It has excellent arranging capabilities (that is what it’s primarily designed for) and its voices are more than acceptable.
Have you played a PSR, Ryan? What’s your opinion of its voices, if so?
Have you played a PSR, Ryan? What’s your opinion of its voices, if so?
I actually own a PSR740 which is super old (believe it or not, it uses a floppy disk) and this is one of the main reasons why I want to upgrade. I haven't had a chance to play any of the new PSR keyboards though. I've listened to some demos on YouTube and most of the sounds were great but the strings sounded just average IMO and I really like to use strings. I may go to Guitar Center soon, but its a 40 min drive from where I live which is why I haven't tried one yet.
By the way, does the MOXF have an accompaniment section or anything like that? Is there a drawback to it compared to the PSR? i did notice the screen was way smaller than the PSR-S775.
Originally Posted by anotherscott
Originally Posted by Abdol
You can buy a used MOXF instead of MODX if you don't need the FM engine.
While the MOXF may be a good choice for him, there are a lot more differences than just the FM engine.
Do you think these are good or bad differences that you are referring to?
By the way, does the MOXF have an accompaniment section or anything like that? Is there a drawback to it compared to the PSR?
The closest the MOXF comes to an automatically generated backing track would be the arpeggiator. It's definitely not an arranger like the PSR.
Originally Posted by ComposerRyan
Originally Posted by anotherscott
Originally Posted by Abdol
You can buy a used MOXF instead of MODX if you don't need the FM engine.
While the MOXF may be a good choice for him, there are a lot more differences than just the FM engine.
Do you think these are good or bad differences that you are referring to?
Each has its advantages over the other. But besides the FM synth, other things the MODX added were the large touchscreen interface (including Live Set patch selection), the super knob and support for another foot controller, seamless sound switching from any set of sounds (up to 4) to any other, and a substantially larger wave set (includes instruments that are no longer limited to 8 elements).
Have you played a PSR, Ryan? What’s your opinion of its voices, if so?
I actually own a PSR740 which is super old (believe it or not, it uses a floppy disk) and this is one of the main reasons why I want to upgrade. I haven't had a chance to play any of the new PSR keyboards though. I've listened to some demos on YouTube and most of the sounds were great but the strings sounded just average IMO and I really like to use strings. I may go to Guitar Center soon, but its a 40 min drive from where I live which is why I haven't tried one yet.
By the way, does the MOXF have an accompaniment section or anything like that? Is there a drawback to it compared to the PSR? i did notice the screen was way smaller than the PSR-S775.
Do you think these are good or bad differences that you are referring to?
My apologies if I'm jumping into the discussion without your permission. I have some experience which you may find it helpful.
I owned a PSR 740 when I was in high school. You can replace the floppy drive with a special USB flash drive reader which will cost you $20-$30 then instead of floppy drive you can use USB sticks. Search for Floppy Disk Drive to USB Emulator.
That requires some compatibility check though. You should make sure that the one you're buying is compatible with your PSR 740.
The waverom in MOXF is the same as MOTIF XF. You can buy an expansion card which gives you a maximum of 1024MB of memory. There is a voice editor which will cost you about $100 but you can create your own voices which may sound far better than factory voices! This is not the case with PSR series.
Did you know you can layer up to 16 VOICES in MOTIF XF and MOXF? You can only layer 2 voices in PSR series plus the left-hand voice.
I'm not sure if you're looking for a sequencer of an auto-accompaniment module. They do 2 different tasks. The sequencer is static which means, it plays an already recorded sequence of notes. Auto-accompaniment, on the other hand, adapts the rhythm notes to the chord you are playing in real time. Two different concepts.
If you want some good set of samples, your options are MOXF/MODX or even a used MOTIF XF and Tyros... if you can afford Genos or Montage, it's even better. If you want a sequencer, with an inferior set of voices, then PSR series is what you may like to choose.
I actually own a PSR740 which is super old (believe it or not, it uses a floppy disk) and this is one of the main reasons why I want to upgrade. I haven't had a chance to play any of the new PSR keyboards though. I've listened to some demos on YouTube and most of the sounds were great but the strings sounded just average IMO and I really like to use strings. I may go to Guitar Center soon, but its a 40 min drive from where I live which is why I haven't tried one yet.
Yamaha's "SA" voices that are used on the PRS-775 and 975 are way better than those of the older models. I would recommend playing one for yourself - it might be a pleasant surprise!
Thanks for sharing this and, wow, the samples really do sound good. I really am starting to think the PSR-S775 is once again the best option. I looked at the sequencer on the MOXF and I think it looks too complicated compared to the PSR-S775, especially since that screen is so small. So right now the PSR-S775 is definitely still winning even though it may not have the best strings sounds.
Originally Posted by Abdol
Originally Posted by ComposerRyan
[quote=Cheshire Chris]Have you played a PSR, Ryan? What’s your opinion of its voices, if so?
If you want some good set of samples, your options are MOXF/MODX or even a used MOTIF XF and Tyros... if you can afford Genos or Montage, it's even better. If you want a sequencer, with an inferior set of voices, then PSR series is what you may like to choose.
Hope it helped.
Thanks for all of your advice on this and you have a lot of points for me to consider. I did watch some tutorials on the MOXF recording sequencer and it looks more complicated than the PSR-S775 and because of the small screen, I'm afraid it may be slow and cumbersome to get to certain menus, etc compared to the PSR-S775's big screen. So I'm leaning more towards the PSR-S775 atm for ease of use and for its onboard recording capabilities. I'm hoping the sounds on it will be good enough for what I need to do. But still weighing the options between the two. Decisions, decisions...
I found the MODX user interface to be very intuitive, enjoyable and creative. I liked the MOXF but the UI felt clunky to me. I only noodled on them for a few hours.
I only briefly looked at FM synthesis and sequencing. They look rather convoluted and forum comments seem to reflect the same. You should study the manuals which will take a long while and try them out yourself.
I think you need to invest the time to go and play them for yourself, Ryan. There's no substitute for personal experience.
Good idea, yeah I definitely want to play them and try them out. I called Guitar Center and I'm planning on heading over there to demo these soon.
Originally Posted by newer player
I found the MODX user interface to be very intuitive, enjoyable and creative. I liked the MOXF but the UI felt clunky to me. I only noodled on them for a few hours.
I only briefly looked at FM synthesis and sequencing. They look rather convoluted and forum comments seem to reflect the same. You should study the manuals which will take a long while and try them out yourself.
So I looked at the manual and wow the MODX does look super powerful with the voice creation and arpeggio features despite the reliance on some software DAW.
Btw, quick question: does anyone know if the MODX has the same type of drum settings that the PSR has? So for instance, on the PSR, I can activate part 1 then easily transition to part 2, 3 and 4 and it will also have a nice transition fill between the drum parts. Does the MODX do this with the drums (4 parts with transition fills)?
Having Fantom G, I don't think there was ever another full sequencer in keyboard that is as capable and as easy to use as on Fantom G (you can plug a mouse and the screen is like a small tablet and you can drag stuff around).
But saying all that I had never used it. Not even once. Even with all the bells and whistles build in, the truth is a simple PC or laptop with DAW gives you infinitely more and the tradeof of having few more cables and setup far outweight having everything in one box. The biggest issue is scallability. Yes it is nice to whip quick song on hardware (in theory) but DAW allows you to go from tiniest few minute project to absolutely humongous one and allows for proper structure.
Just saying, I would not get stuck on hardware sequencer capabilities or lack of them. The MODX is absolutely brilliant board and if it has full blown sequencer 99% of people would not use it in any shape or form, just like me not using fantom g sequencer ever.
Casio PX-860, Roland Fantom G, Kurzweil PC1X, Korg Micro X
So I finally made a decision on which one I will be getting today. And thanks for all of your help with this, your knowledge has been invaluable! So I ordered the MODX from Amazon just today and it will be arriving soon. Very excited and can't wait to experiment with all of the sounds and start composing music again. I will let you know my first impressions once I get it and, again, thanks to all of you for helping me out with this tough decision. I'm feeling confident in the decision especially after listening to your feedback and also watching endless YouTube videos on the MODX.
I wish you every joy with your new instrument, although I can’t help thinking that a stage synth is a curious choice for someone who wanted an arranger workstation - they are completely different beasts! I’m sure you’ll have a lot of fun with the MODX; please keep us updated with your thoughts on it.
Just noticed the MODX screen is also used on the incredible ELECTONE / STAGEA. Unfortunately, Yamaha seems to have reserved the Electone principally for Asian markets, although I have seen a few for sale in a some Latin American countries:
So I just received my keyboard yesterday and LOVING it so far. Wow, the sound is really blowing me away and I really like how I can easily switch between entire performances, which give me a whole new drum part and rhythms for the voices that I have selected. And the guitars sound soooooo good compared to my old keyboard. Again, totally blown away. And I'm still able to record very quickly to the basic sequencer and the next step is to hook it up to my PC which hopefully I will have time to do this weekend. I'll keep you updated and let you know how it goes and thx again to everyone for helping me make my decision with this.
Congratulations ComposerRyan! It is great knowing that you are pleased with the sounds. One thing I would like to ask you, whenever you have the time to answer, is how you like the touch screen, and how useful you think it is. And good luck with your compositions!
Thx and so far the touch screen is great! It's not 100% accurate at times when pressing on it (mobile phones like the samsung seem more accurate as a comparison) but it is very useful and easy to use. The touch screen is one of my favorite parts besides the high quality sounds and you can even search for voices by typing on the keyboard that displays on the screen. Plus, it just looks super cool so far, I am verrry happy I chose the MODX. it really is an amazing keyboard!