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Concert grand: 5 string sections
#2833932 04/01/19 04:39 PM
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A pro pianist friend of mine recently performed on a 'Marco Polo' Fazioli F308 in Taiwan. The story of that F308 was that a successful entrepreneurial doctor bought it at first for some house concerts, and later donated it to a local performance venue. I digressed here, but my friend's technician noticed that this particular F308 is of (older) design that there is no break/strut in the tenor section like the newer ones. That is, there is only 4 string sections instead of 5, and his technician commented that such design is an inferior design.

This is a question I have had in mind for a while. Take a few companies' production for example: Steinway only has model C and D that has this 5-section design. Fazioli's (at least on the website) is on F278 and F308. Yamaha wouldn't have it until CFX. Bosendorfer has 5-section at 225 and above. And so forth.

Is there a particular reason this break in tenor is only used on larger grand? And what benefit (if at all) does it provide?


1969 Hamburg Steinway B, rebuilt by PianoCraft in 2017
2013 New York Steinway A
Kawai MP11

Previously: 2005 Yamaha GB1, 1992 Yamaha C5
Re: Concert grand: 5 string sections
Davdoc #2834149 04/02/19 05:20 AM
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With 5 string sections design, the action frame becomes more firm, I guess


Hamburg Steinway & Sons C-227
Yamaha Stagea Electone ELS-02X
Re: Concert grand: 5 string sections
Davdoc #2834238 04/02/19 09:49 AM
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The really big question is, How does the piano sound and perform? Is it phenomenal or does it have some issues?

Pwg


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: Concert grand: 5 string sections
Davdoc #2834938 04/03/19 04:26 PM
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Only a handful of concert grand pianos actually have 4 load-bearing stress bars, dividing the scale into 5 sections. In Steinway D, Yamaha CFX, Fazioli 278, there is no load-bearing bar between the second and the third section. The diagonal bar in the Steinway isn't load-bearing. Of common currently-made brands, only Bösendorfer 280, 290, and Kawai EX have 4 stress bars, as did older Yamaha, Bösendorfer 275, Baldwin, and Bechstein concert grands. I don't know about other brands.

Rigidity is important, and it is essential that the sympathetic vibration frequency of such bars is well outside the hearing range of human ears. Since such bars are typically placed above the strings, they are subjected not just to the compression forces, but also to bending forces

Re: Concert grand: 5 string sections
Davdoc #2834978 04/03/19 06:47 PM
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My 1929 Knabe has five sections.


-- J.S.

[Linked Image] [Linked Image]

Knabe Grand # 10927
Yamaha CP33
Kawai FS690
Re: Concert grand: 5 string sections
P W Grey #2836370 04/07/19 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by P W Grey
The really big question is, How does the piano sound and perform? Is it phenomenal or does it have some issues?

Pwg


According to him, the particular F308 was actually prepped well by the regular technician(s) and the one he hired for the concert. Tone-wise, on the other hand, he preferred a well-prepped Steinway D.

He is not necessarily a fanboy of Steinway; he criticized several Steinway Ds he performed on in Taiwan. He chose a Bosendorfer 290 to perform on, instead of several Steinway Ds available, a few months ago at the National Concert Hall in Taipei.


1969 Hamburg Steinway B, rebuilt by PianoCraft in 2017
2013 New York Steinway A
Kawai MP11

Previously: 2005 Yamaha GB1, 1992 Yamaha C5
Re: Concert grand: 5 string sections
Davdoc #2837212 04/09/19 10:00 AM
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Hi Davdoc,

I think I know who your friend is. eek You should invite him to come here more often.

I have heard that Marco Polo Fazioli F308 in National Concert Hall in Taiwan more than 10 years ago (pianist Hung-Kuan Chen played Rach 3 with National Taiwan Orchestra). The piano is beautiful but I felt that it's not ideal to use it against orchestra (the sound is a little too mellow).

Re: Concert grand: 5 string sections
Kenny Cheng #2837330 04/09/19 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Kenny Cheng
Hi Davdoc,

I think I know who your friend is. eek You should invite him to come here more often.

I have heard that Marco Polo Fazioli F308 in National Concert Hall in Taiwan more than 10 years ago (pianist Hung-Kuan Chen played Rach 3 with National Taiwan Orchestra). The piano is beautiful but I felt that it's not ideal to use it against orchestra (the sound is a little too mellow).


There's a Marco Polo F308 at the National Concert Hall now? I was there a couple of years ago, and the two Faziolis (F308 and F278) were both regular shiny black pianos. If I recall correctly, the F278 is newer and is a more powerful instrument.

Re: Concert grand: 5 string sections
Davdoc #2837442 04/09/19 06:58 PM
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If a string section is a too broad one, then the mechanism can become "flattery" -- a phenomenon which can be watched on hyper fast movies taken with the "miniature design" of Steinway, with the O-180, L-180, M-170 and S-155 models:

Their base section contains 26 notes..., that is too much in the case that a trained pianist is able to apply MUCH power... in the mid of this broad section there is too much twisting when a pianist is really able..

This also depends on the mechanical stability of the mechanism structure which is a bit old for the Steinway design from 1870.

I like my Steinway D (Centennial type) with symmetric string fields layout, 17-18-18-18-17 tones per section. With a maximum of 18 notes is ensured that there is not much flattery with the hammer rail....

A grand piano with four string fields only is a toy IMHO. Five sections are useful to build a proefssional tool. So this comprises also the beloved B-211: a toy, not a real tool. because the B-211 and the A-188 also have only four string fields.

One can also discuss the "newer" layout of the Steinway C and D types of 1884 and 1886 - because the beam between the second and the third string field is not running to the backside of the plate.

But there are reasons that Steinway D pianos are so successful. Part of the success has to do with the fact that they are the lightest concert grand ones which has advantages in stage handling.


Pls excuse any bad english.

Centennial D Sept 1877

Working on Berceuse op.57
Nocturnes op. 9-1,3 15-1,2,3 27-2 32-1,2
Going Home (Mark Knopfler)
Re: Concert grand: 5 string sections
Ken Iisaka #2837497 04/10/19 01:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken Iisaka
[quote=Kenny Cheng]


There's a Marco Polo F308 at the National Concert Hall now? I was there a couple of years ago, and the two Faziolis (F308 and F278) were both regular shiny black pianos. If I recall correctly, the F278 is newer and is a more powerful instrument.


Hi Ken,

That Marco Polo F308 was private own. It was lent to National Concert Hall for the concert. National Concert Hall currently has a F278 and a F308 (regular shiny black). F278 is newer instrument.

Re: Concert grand: 5 string sections
BerndAB #2837508 04/10/19 02:33 AM
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Originally Posted by BerndAB
A grand piano with four string fields only is a toy IMHO. Five sections are useful to build a proefssional tool.

Probably Stephane Paulello and his opus 102 (3 metres grand) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02kAnSzDXH8 wouldn't agree about that...

Re: Concert grand: 5 string sections
Kenny Cheng #2839631 04/15/19 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Kenny Cheng
Hi Davdoc,

I think I know who your friend is. eek You should invite him to come here more often.

I have heard that Marco Polo Fazioli F308 in National Concert Hall in Taiwan more than 10 years ago (pianist Hung-Kuan Chen played Rach 3 with National Taiwan Orchestra). The piano is beautiful but I felt that it's not ideal to use it against orchestra (the sound is a little too mellow).


Hi Kenny,

He currently spends more time in Taiwan than anywhere else. I believe his recital on the F308 was one of the 3 concerts he recently held there. Too bad I didn't get to go, being 12 time zones away.


1969 Hamburg Steinway B, rebuilt by PianoCraft in 2017
2013 New York Steinway A
Kawai MP11

Previously: 2005 Yamaha GB1, 1992 Yamaha C5

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