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So this will be sacrilege to some on PianoWorld but I just sold my Yamaha C6 acoustic that I had for about 10 years and bought a digital piano.

For a couple years I've had a Kawaii VPC1 with Pianoteq and I realized I actually preferred that over my 7 foot acoustic grand and for the last year I played the VPC1 about 80 percent of the time.

The Yamaha C6 acoustic grand is wonderful. However, I've been acoustically spoiled with Pianoteq and my Sennheiser HD 650 headphones or with Yamaha 8 and 5 inch monitors in combination.

I've heard that the CFX sound on the N3X is wonderful. It's better than my C6 acoustic. It does not hold a candle to the any of the pianos on Pianoteq in either presence or playability. I know the built in CFX has the spatial sampling. It's a gimmick in my opinion. Stereo Pianoteq is miles ahead.

The action on the N3X is about 5 percent better than the VPC 1, only winning in lever length but not by much. I actually prefer the texture of the VPC 1 keys.

The sound of Pianoteq through the N3X is wonderful and present, surpassing my VPC1 setup. However the little 3.5 audio in jack is moronic. I hope it never breaks. They have balanced and XLR out, why not have those for audio in as well?

The Bechstein and Grotrian for jazz and Debussy, the Steinway D for classical, and the YC5 for pop are glorious.

One issue I have with Pianoteq... I tried the 192000 sampling rate with a new Macbook Pro i7. It is impossible to get good polyphony with today's processors so what is the point of even including it if it starts cracking at 24 voices even with ridiculous latency? It does sound more rich until it starts popping but I reverted back to 48000 sampling rate to get over 100 voice polyphony and 2 ms latency which is still much better than the CFX built in sound which sounds about like a 20000 sampling rate or lower.


Last edited by AlphaTerminus; 04/06/19 11:00 PM.

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Originally Posted by AlphaTerminus
I've heard that the CFX sound on the N3X is wonderful. It's better than my C6 acoustic. It does not hold a candle to the any of the pianos on Pianoteq in either presence or playability. I know the built in CFX has the spatial sampling. It's a gimmick in my opinion. Stereo Pianoteq is miles ahead.

Before the naysayers jump in and give you proverbial "thumbs down" for speaking the truth as you perceive it, I wanted to say:

thumb thumb Pianoteq is the bomb! smile

(And to those that disagree, that's fine - it just proves every human lives in a subjective reality. That is to say, "your reality is not my reality.")


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"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
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correction apparently the N3X has a 44100 playback rate. For some reason it sounds kind of processed in some of the mid range notes to me.

Last edited by AlphaTerminus; 04/06/19 11:09 PM.

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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by AlphaTerminus
I've heard that the CFX sound on the N3X is wonderful. It's better than my C6 acoustic. It does not hold a candle to the any of the pianos on Pianoteq in either presence or playability. I know the built in CFX has the spatial sampling. It's a gimmick in my opinion. Stereo Pianoteq is miles ahead.

Before the naysayers jump in and give you proverbial "thumbs down" for speaking the truth as you perceive it, I wanted to say:

thumb thumb Pianoteq is the bomb! smile

(And to those that disagree, that's fine - it just proves every human lives in a subjective reality. That is to say, "your reality is not my reality.")


Yeah I wasn't trying to start a modelling vs sampling debate. Really just noting how I consider going from a nice acoustic grand to a nice digital grand an upgrade. However, I guess since pianoteq 4 (which lacked some presence but was extremely expressive) I've preferred it over any sampled pianos, which to me when I try to play them are like whacking a dead fish against a log. They sound great to listen to, but I hate playing them. N3X is supposed to have some kind of modelling like the sympathetic resonance or something... it falls flat.

Last edited by AlphaTerminus; 04/06/19 11:28 PM.

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Originally Posted by AlphaTerminus
Yeah I wasn't trying to start a modelling vs sampling debate. Really just noting how I consider going from a nice acoustic grand to a nice digital grand an upgrade. However, I guess since pianoteq 4 (which lacked some presence but was extremely expressive) I've preferred it over any sampled pianos, which to me when I try to play them are like whacking a dead fish against a log. N3X is supposed to have some kind of modelling like the sympathetic resonance or something... it falls flat.

I think what you've raised is actually in its core, not so much a sampling vs modeling debate, but one ultimately concerning aesthetics and musicality. You've addressed the musicality issue above.

Regarding aesthetics, the grand piano was originally designed in a form factor to accommodate long bass strings and shorter treble strings and still be space-efficient, giving it its kyphotic shape. It really shows the power of tradition that this is considered a physical design reflecting high aesthetics. Well, I wasn't raised in the Victorian era and I don't see why I should be swayed by the aesthetics of times long past.
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I may get a grand piano at some point myself, if I end up with accommodations that are suitable for one. But I've already planned out my pet name for this prospective grand: "Quasimodo." wink


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across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
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I do find the grand piano form beautiful. (Though my C6 was a little long for my music room.) I have paintings of them and their form all over the house. I suppose that's why I chose the N3X over an upright form. I tried other less expensive Clavinova grands... if only Yamaha Clavinova had actions equal to the Kawai VPC-1 (in my opinion) I could have saved a few thousand.

I've never thought of a piano having kyphosis laugh. Maybe lordosis? wink

Last edited by AlphaTerminus; 04/07/19 12:00 AM.

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One switches from a nice acoustic grand to a digital and says it’s better. And then I should believe this guy when he says Pianoteq is great. Well, OK wink

Last edited by CyberGene; 04/07/19 12:12 AM.

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Yes. The four speaker set up works so well. Almost anyone can achieve this with their DPs and slabs. The internal sounds add space and richness to the added audio system.


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I'll take the C6, personally. One of my favourite acoustic piano models.

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Selling a nice acoustic to go full digital. There is no comparison imo- I honestly donˋt get it. Why not have both worlds? I think you‘ll regret it.

I wanted a C6 so bad, but I don‘t have the space...


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As someone who has fairly recently acquired a (very old) grand piano I am at a complete loss as to how anyone could prefer any digital.

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Congratulations. As an acoustic piano owner I totally get this. Grand pianos while beautiful, are a bit of a burden at times. The maintenance required to keep them playing at their best can be troublesome, and the sheer size and volume of these instruments is not convenient in many practice situations. The volume of a grand piano in a practice room can be a real problem to the pianist and personally I'm switching over to my Roland more often because of this.

We're now virtually at the stage where a digital setup can offer so much of the playing experience that we require for good piano practice sessions.

I still find my own piano to be far more beautiful, and unforgiving.... than any digital piano I've ever played and in fact it's more truthful than many other acoustic pianos I play but I've been seriously considering making the switch to an N3 or something for some time now.


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Originally Posted by EssBrace
As someone who has fairly recently acquired a (very old) grand piano I am at a complete loss as to how anyone could prefer any digital.


Have you played an N3X ? I'm not trying to put you on the spot but I do think we will get to the point that the decision between analogue and digital at equivalent or comparable price points will be an emotional one rather than which sounds better. Now music making is an emotional activity so it's not to say such judgements aren't completely valid.

I'm personally thinking about my 'retirement' piano and am considering acoustic. But I think there's an interesting case for the higher end digitals. If all I want is to play piano how would say a 'cheap' baby grand from Kawai (GL-10) sound compared with the N10 digital as they cost almost an identical amount. I initially dismissed the N3X because I'm not sure you should try to make a digital piano however top end look like a grand, but might be able to past that if the experience works.

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Originally Posted by AlphaTerminus
So this will be sacrilege to some on PianoWorld but I just sold my Yamaha C6 acoustic that I had for about 10 years and bought a digital piano.


It's a brave person who posts that though I guess if you wanted to take more stick you could have posted in the piano forum !

Originally Posted by AlphaTerminus

However the little 3.5 audio in jack is moronic. I hope it never breaks. They have balanced and XLR out, why not have those for audio in as well?


I thought the recent Yamaha digitals allowed you to do everything over a single USB because they had a built in audio interface. Have I got that wrong or does it not apply to the N3X ?

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Originally Posted by AlphaTerminus


For a couple years I've had a Kawaii VPC1 with Pianoteq and I realized I actually preferred that over my 7 foot acoustic grand and for the last year I played the VPC1 about 80 percent of the time.

However, I've been acoustically spoiled with Pianoteq and my Sennheiser HD 650 headphones or with Yamaha 8 and 5 inch monitors in combination.

The action on the N3X is about 5 percent better than the VPC 1, only winning in lever length but not by much. I actually prefer the texture of the VPC 1 keys.

The sound of Pianoteq through the N3X is wonderful and present, surpassing my VPC1 setup.



Thanks for the feedback on Vpc1 (even though that was not the topic), and you may hope that 18000 usd for the N3X is indeed better than the 1800 usd Vpc1 :-)

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Originally Posted by dhts
Originally Posted by EssBrace
As someone who has fairly recently acquired a (very old) grand piano I am at a complete loss as to how anyone could prefer any digital.


Have you played an N3X ?

EssBrace may correct me but I believe he owned a N3 in the past.

As to switching from a C6 to a digital piano.

Yamaha C6 has been one of my long time "realistic" dreams. When I will (hopefully) move into a house some day, the C6 will probably be the most reasonable acoustic grand piano I can have, in terms of max price I can afford to pay vs quality vs size. I've been dreaming about that grand for many years.

Saying that you prefer a VPC1 with Pianoteq over C6 in my humble opinion means the OP just doesn't have a clue about anything piano related smile I'm sorry if that sounds insulting, and I will fully apologize if it's taken this way, but I really mean it. In my own opinion it just makes no sense and gives zero credibility to that person. With that in mind, whatever he says or likes or reviews is absolutely of no relevance to me. Again, it's just an opinion. My opinion.

Last edited by CyberGene; 04/07/19 04:09 AM.

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As I said... sacrilege. The C6 was indeed wonderful. Emotionally it was hard. I appreciate wood, iron, and string. I loved her but I wasn’t in love with her any more. (Unlike my spouse of 25 years and I won’t be replacing with a robot or a newer model.) I don’t think I’ll regret it. Since I got her 10 years ago my ears have wanted more color and I lust after Schimmel grands now. If anyone dreams of a C6 you can’t go wrong with it and they are wonderful.

For now if I tire of a Bechstein’s subtle high color and crave a bass growl I’ll play my Steinway D.... or if just want to flirt I will rendezvous with my Petrof or Grotrian. If I miss a hint of my C6 I can play my YC5 with the strings stretched a bit and tweaked slightly warm.

To each her own. What a wonderful time to love piano!

Last edited by AlphaTerminus; 04/07/19 05:16 AM.

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Originally Posted by CyberGene
[quote=dhts][quote=EssBrace]

Saying that you prefer a VPC1 with Pianoteq over C6 in my humble opinion means the OP just doesn't have a clue about anything piano related smile


Exactly my thoughts. In fact, initially I thought it's a belated April Fools' joke.

Last edited by Manolios; 04/07/19 05:36 AM.

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I’m beginning to wonder if this is a spam post or if the OP works for avant- grand dealer... I tried pianoteq, I didn’t think it was worth the effort compared to my P515 or old 155


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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Originally Posted by dhts
Originally Posted by EssBrace
As someone who has fairly recently acquired a (very old) grand piano I am at a complete loss as to how anyone could prefer any digital.


Have you played an N3X ?

EssBrace may correct me but I believe he owned a N3 in the past.

As to switching from a C6 to a digital piano.

Yamaha C6 has been one of my long time "realistic" dreams. When I will (hopefully) move into a house some day, the C6 will probably be the most reasonable acoustic grand piano I can have, in terms of max price I can afford to pay vs quality vs size. I've been dreaming about that grand for many years.

Saying that you prefer a VPC1 with Pianoteq over C6 in my humble opinion means the OP just doesn't have a clue about anything piano related smile I'm sorry if that sounds insulting, and I will fully apologize if it's taken this way, but I really mean it. In my own opinion it just makes no sense and gives zero credibility to that person. With that in mind, whatever he says or likes or reviews is absolutely of no relevance to me. Again, it's just an opinion. My opinion.

Indeed it s a shame to ditch a grand piano ( one of the biggest digital piano forum users dream I m sure ) to a digital. However, this is the nice thing in life, you just need to be hppy whatever that means.

Let s not forget that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so pianoteq is representing beauty to the owner of the post, and that s that. I think this mostly relates to a big big thing that I learnt in life. It doesn t apply to all directions in life, however people always miss what they don t have. Even though myself dreams about acoustic all day, why I don t miss my previous digital piano instead ?

This would apply to OP as well, since he probably dreamed about avoiding tunings, occupying less space, and have 5 pianos in his house as he suggested. I think this is a special thing in life to atchieve happiness on your own and not trying to pursue other people dreams smile

Cheers to everyone here, because we all seem to love pianos(in their acoustic or digital form).

Last edited by tudor33sud; 04/07/19 06:25 AM.

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