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Re: Books vs Ipad vs Kindle for sheet music
OhioBuckeye #2835061 04/04/19 01:00 AM
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The sad thing is, 9 years after the original post - Kindle still sucks for sheet music. It can be ok on a large monitor but on tablets it’s a poor experience.



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Re: Books vs Ipad vs Kindle for sheet music
Groove On #2835064 04/04/19 01:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Groove On
The sad thing is, 9 years after the original post - Kindle still sucks for sheet music. The best I can manage is to put it on a large monitor but on tablets it’s a poor experience.

Well, tastes and experiences differ. I've had excellent experiences using tablets exclusively for years now. Even more so since I switched to a larger surface tablet+stylus a few months ago.

Re: Books vs Ipad vs Kindle for sheet music
JoBert #2835065 04/04/19 01:12 AM
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Originally Posted by JoBert
Originally Posted by Groove On
The sad thing is, 9 years after the original post - Kindle still sucks for sheet music. The best I can manage is to put it on a large monitor but on tablets it’s a poor experience.

Well, tastes and experiences differ. I've had excellent experiences using tablets exclusively for years now. Even more so since I switched to a larger surface tablet+stylus a few months ago.

Sorry i didn’t mean to say tablets were poor experiences - I meant Kindle on a tablet is a poor experience. Specifically the Kindle sheet music for sale/download on Amazon.

PDF sheet music on tablets are generally pretty decent.


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Re: Books vs Ipad vs Kindle for sheet music
Groove On #2835075 04/04/19 01:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Groove On
Originally Posted by JoBert
Originally Posted by Groove On
The sad thing is, 9 years after the original post - Kindle still sucks for sheet music. The best I can manage is to put it on a large monitor but on tablets it’s a poor experience.

Well, tastes and experiences differ. I've had excellent experiences using tablets exclusively for years now. Even more so since I switched to a larger surface tablet+stylus a few months ago.

Sorry i didn’t mean to say tablets were poor experiences - I meant Kindle on a tablet is a poor experience. Specifically the Kindle sheet music for sale/download on Amazon.

PDF sheet music on tablets are generally pretty decent.

Ah, I see. I never tried Kindle on a tablet, neither for books nor for sheet music, and I can fully imagine that it would indeed be a poor experience for the latter. A dedicated score reader app is much better, I would assume.

Re: Books vs Ipad vs Kindle for sheet music
OhioBuckeye #2835252 04/04/19 11:16 AM
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I've tried various Kindle's on smartphones and computers and for music even just example in a theory books is bad. I'm in process of deciding to get another laptop or try a tablet for my woodshed. At this point as convenient as tablets are I think their drawbacks have me thinking I'll get another laptop.

Re: Books vs Ipad vs Kindle for sheet music
OhioBuckeye #2835529 04/05/19 04:39 AM
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There is now this excellent device on the market, designed especially for the discussed purpose. Big enough for showing two reasonably big sized pages, easy page turn funtionalities, you can even add your written marks to the sheet, unfortunately still expensive:
https://www.gvidomusic.com/

(I am not affiliated to it, simply think it is worth to spread the news about it - anyone around who would sponsor me the purchase of this device?)

Re: Books vs Ipad vs Kindle for sheet music
Wuffski #2835587 04/05/19 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Wuffski
There is now this excellent device on the market, designed especially for the discussed purpose. Big enough for showing two reasonably big sized pages, easy page turn funtionalities, you can even add your written marks to the sheet, unfortunately still expensive:
https://www.gvidomusic.com/

Someone on the digital forum just tried this at Musikmesse and didn't think it performed acceptably.

Viktoriya Yermolyeva made a video on her GVIDO on her Youtube channel:



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Re: Books vs Ipad vs Kindle for sheet music
OhioBuckeye #2835589 04/05/19 07:49 AM
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I have read many poor reviews of GVIDO.



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Re: Books vs Ipad vs Kindle for sheet music
NobleHouse #2835590 04/05/19 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by NobleHouse
I have read many poor reviews of GVIDO.


The idea is good, but apparently the execution is lacking.



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Re: Books vs Ipad vs Kindle for sheet music
NobleHouse #2835595 04/05/19 07:57 AM
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That GVIDO's very expensive. By comparison, a 256GB, 12.9" open box iPad Pro is $650.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-12-9...-Gray-MP6G2LL-A-2017-Model/132341443897?

Last edited by Steve.L; 04/05/19 07:58 AM.
Re: Books vs Ipad vs Kindle for sheet music
Steve.L #2835610 04/05/19 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve.L
That GVIDO's very expensive. By comparison, a 256GB, 12.9" open box iPad Pro is $650.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-12-9...-Gray-MP6G2LL-A-2017-Model/132341443897?

Is this an apples-to-apples comparison? That is does Forscore even support a pair of iPad Pros though in left-page-right-page format? Because if it does, then I think that would be more usable.


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Books vs Ipad vs Kindle for sheet music
Tyrone Slothrop #2835646 04/05/19 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Is this an apples-to-apples comparison?

Yes, literally apple-to-apple. Forscore supports dual pages across two iPads; it needs a helper app called Cue to sync pages.


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Re: Books vs Ipad vs Kindle for sheet music
Groove On #2835654 04/05/19 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Groove On
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Is this an apples-to-apples comparison?

Yes, literally apple-to-apple. Forscore supports dual pages across two iPads; it needs a helper app called Cue to sync pages.

Thanks! Then I think I want to consider this option too. The annotation weakness for GVIDO does make it seem worse than a matched pair of iPad Pros, unless there are other features in the GVIDO not in Forscore, which I don't think there are.


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Books vs Ipad vs Kindle for sheet music
OhioBuckeye #2835671 04/05/19 10:21 AM
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Tyrone, I don't know if you have seen my answer over in the other thread, and since it's OT there, I hope you don't mind me taking it here:

Originally Posted by JoBert
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by JoBert
But I have another question:

Why have two pages, i.e. two screens?

I like being able to look at the next measure while still playing the last measures on the previous page. Allows me to get ready for those next measures without having to remember either the last measures of the previous page or the first measures of the next page. Not that this is a big problem for me though, but it's just a nice-to-have thing.

I have the same preference, actually.
But do you know about the half page turn feature in Forscore, Mobilesheets, etc.? That allows for the same thing, but with a single screen.
When you tap the page turn pedal, only the top half of the page is turned, so the lower half remains on the previous page. So you can play to the end of the page and then just move your eyes to the top where the beginning of the next page is already shown. Then a bit later you tap the pedal again to turn the lower half of the page too. The advantage is, as you say, that you don't have to memorize the measures around the page turn, as they are always on screen at the same time. And you don't have to tap the pedal exactly at the end of the page (when it may be inconvenient if you are busy playing some difficult). You can tap the pedal at any convenient moment while on the second half of the page (for example during a rest) and then again during a convenient moment on the first half of the next page.


and:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
unless there are other features in the GVIDO not in Forscore, which I don't think there are.

I guess it would rather be the other way round. Forscore is quite feature rich.

Last edited by JoBert; 04/05/19 10:23 AM.
Re: Books vs Ipad vs Kindle for sheet music
JoBert #2835673 04/05/19 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by JoBert
Tyrone, I don't know if you have seen my answer over in the other thread, and since it's OT there, I hope you don't mind me taking it here:

Not at all. In fact, I'll just cross-post my message from over there that I just posted:

Originally Posted by MarioPf
I can think two reasons to have a two-page tablet. First, for some people who have played for decades looking for two or more pages in sequence it may feel odd to look always for the same "page" up <-> down. Something like GVIDO may give the feeling of reading a paper book. Second, with a two-page display we can anticipate the next page. These are two reasons that only a small number of people can find value, but I think a product like GVIDO is designed precisely for a very narrow market niche and with certain special needs.

Maybe there is a third and fundamental reason for having two pages: style, especially if it is a very expensive product.

Originally Posted by MarioPf
Originally Posted by TomLC
I agree with JoBert. If they sold a one page model, they could price it at less than a iPad Pro. Which could increase sales. The accessories are also overpriced compared to the competition. It is elegant though with the leather cover. shocked

In this case, people would pay a little more for an iPad Pro 12.9", because it is much better.

Definitely this would be reasonable as a lower cost alternative.

Personally, I would still like to have two pages at a time as that falls into the category, of "if one can afford it, it still seems better to me" along the lines you mentioned also. That said, there is a thread on ABF going on at this moment also about GVIDO and I just learned that Forscore does in fact support two iPad Pros using a helper app - and the latter might even be cheaper if one is willing to buy open-box iPad Pros. The price difference is a few hundred dollars, but, not to sound elitist, but such a small difference doesn't matter as much to me as the ability to use almost standard software (Forscore vs. some proprietary software on GVIDO), and that annotations work better under Forscore. Any difference in usability could be solved as I'm quite certain I could have a "hinge" 3D-printed for me which could lock the two iPad Pros together. That seems like it would be a win-win over a GVIDO to me.

Better though is relative. Some aspect of better is probably that some people think it might be more versatile since one could do other iPad-ish things with a dual iPad Pro solution. But as a seeker of convenience, I'd want my score reading solution to be always with my piano running the necessary software at all times, and for regular iPad use, I would simply get another iPad (probably not a pro, since mobility/size is more of a concern for me) to carry around and do my non-piano other stuff. This in fact is similar to what I do now with my VST. It runs on a dedicated piano-computer parked at my piano and left always on. The additional cost of having another computer is offset by the convenience of me never having to turn anything on and in life, we often pay for convenience.


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Books vs Ipad vs Kindle for sheet music
OhioBuckeye #2835779 04/05/19 02:39 PM
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Answering your questions from that other thread:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by JoBert
For those who are interested: There's a cheaper alternative to the iPad Pro: A Surface Pro tablet (previous year model, with minimal CPU specs, to minimize price) running Mobilesheets. Or if you want, two of them. smile

Does mobilesheets work as well or better than Forscore? How are annotations via a stylus? Can you make very small annotations (small print) using the stylus, or is it not accurate enough? Does mobilesheets work across two of these devices for two-page view of scores?


I never used Forscore, so I can't make a direct comparison. From all I've read about it, it seems that it is an excellent app.
But if you want to think about an alternative, I can say that Mobilesheets has tons of features, works very well, and is constantly being improved (also it is available for Android, Windows and even e-ink devices, so you could roll your own GVIDO with it).
Annotations with the stylus (on Surface Pro) work well. If you want to write very small, you just pinch zoom first (I assume that's true for the iPad too). Personally however, I prefer to have nice looking "printed" annotations, so instead of using the freehand mode to write, I use the text tool (where you "type" in the text, for example finger numbers). Only instead of the on screen keyboard, I use Windows' freehand text recognition. So if I want to add fingering, I activate the text tool (if it isn't already active), tap the rough location, tap the input field, freehand-write the desired number, then use the stylus to drag the number into the exact location. Sounds complicated, but is a matter of seconds. (Here is a sample page of how the result looks with that method, see the blue finger numbers: http://forum.pianoworld.com//gallery/42/full/11342.png)
But as said, freehand annotations are also possible, if you prefer that.

With the newly introduced "book mode" for pairing two tablets, you can use two tablets for a two-page view.

(Although since you wrote that you wanted to take it in steps anyway, I would suggest to first get only one tablet - it may turn out that you think you don't need two tablets after all...smile)

For more details, see here: https://www.zubersoft.com/mobilesheets/

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by JoBert
I've been using that (a single one) since a few months and it works great.

I see Amazon.com has it for $600 so a pair would come in at $1200. That's a good price and cheaper than GVIDO, although the Surface Pro solution is about 1" smaller than GVIDO. As I will only use this for one purpose - on my music rest only - I don't much care that it is Mobilesheets vs Forscore as long as the former works as well as the latter, since that will be the only app those two devices ever runs anyways.

Re: Books vs Ipad vs Kindle for sheet music
OhioBuckeye #2835786 04/05/19 02:52 PM
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I've started using Forscore with iPad a little bit for short pieces that I know very well, but want an aide-memoire--I'm not doing heavy duty reading and marking with it. I don't have a foot pedal and just swipe for page turns.

I send some IMSLP downloads stored in Forscore to the printer for hard copies that I put in a three-ring binder when I need to agonize over marking lots of fingering. But, most of the time I use traditional published scores.


WhoDwaldi
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Re: Books vs Ipad vs Kindle for sheet music
OhioBuckeye #2835803 04/05/19 03:28 PM
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I just recently got serious about using an ipad. At school (going to university in my retirement) I have to memorize everything - except I got permission to use the score for the Muczynski Toccata op 15. I had an old ipad 2 that I got as a freebie at my last job. Way to small for music - so I upgraded to a 12.9" ipad. I can now see one page of the score at about the same size as the print copy. And it's bright with good contrast - always a help for my old eyes. The pen works well with forscore for fingering and drawing lines and accidentals and so forth.

It's the page turns that are taking some getting used to. I have a PageFlip Firefly and it is way too flimsy and sensitive for my feet. I need something that doesn't turn pages when my foot gets too close to it - something I really need to stomp on to turn the page.

Sam

Re: Books vs Ipad vs Kindle for sheet music
OhioBuckeye #2835806 04/05/19 03:44 PM
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All these years playing and I still consider myself a novice.
Re: Books vs Ipad vs Kindle for sheet music
EPW #2835860 04/05/19 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by EPW


Now you're costing me money!

Sam

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