2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
Who's Online Now
45 members (Chris Vitale, astrotoy, djvu10, Del Vento, 36251, Alexander Acosta, anotherscott, 1957, 13 invisible), 409 guests, and 439 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 21 of 171 1 2 19 20 21 22 23 170 171
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
Chrispy #2834567 04/02/19 10:01 PM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 414
P
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 414
Originally Posted by Chrispy

So you could argue the app is the elegance, however the fact is, to use it I have to have a dongle of some sort. It really bugs me that Yamaha either forces me to have a wire hanging out of the front of the instrument to use this interface or buy their $100 adapter to get wifi. Really? we spend 7-8 grand on the piano and you couldn't see fit to put a $2 wifi chip in it? Also, if I want wifi, I'm unable to also have my memory stick in, I have to switch between the two because there is only one USB port they work with (the other is the "printer cable" port for the midi/audio interface.) And, it also happens that while it's nice to have the usb on the front of the instrument so I can take memory sticks in and out with ease, it's not so nice that if I want full time wifi I have a big dongle with a light on it that sticks out of the front and is very easy to dislocate with a knee or while going to adjust the volume. All in all, Yamaha cheaped out here and it's a poor design which was not though through from a customer perspective, it is clearly that they didn't want to make any changes from what they have on all their DP's for economy.


I agree that is is absurd to have to buy a separate adapter and the way it sticks out is not at all keeping with the elegance of the Avante Grand DP's design. The conspiracy side of me thinks that the engineers probably wanted to include WiFi and Bluetooth in the X versions of the AG saying "look it costs less than 5 bucks and everything has wireless built in these days". (They also don't have to deal with determining if a wireless adapter is pluged in or not.) Then the folk from the accessories group say "Whoa, wait a minute. We charge $150 list for WiFi and $100 for Bluetooth. You can't take away that revenue stream". The engineers were then severely reprimanded for their lack of financial vision and the accessories folk get to keep on milking the overpriced external wireless adapter market. smile


Yamaha NU1X, Sennheiser HD 599 headphones, dabling with PianoTeq
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
Peddler100 #2834573 04/02/19 10:16 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 16,919
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 16,919
Originally Posted by oneilt130
The conspiracy side of me thinks that the engineers probably wanted to include WiFi and Bluetooth in the X versions of the AG saying "look it costs less than 5 bucks and everything has wireless built in these days".


I believe including Bluetooth (and possibly also WiFi) functionality in a product requires certification from regional authorities. This can be an expensive and complicated process, and is perhaps one of the reasons why some instruments that feature Bluetooth functionality have the feature disabled when sold in certain markets.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2834577 04/02/19 10:37 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,398
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,398
I wonder what's fuss (tell me what's a-happening) about the lack of wifi? Should I be web-surfing on my piano? smile

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
MacMacMac #2834620 04/03/19 02:42 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,437
Gold Subscriber
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,437
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I wonder what's fuss (tell me what's a-happening) about the lack of wifi? Should I be web-surfing on my piano? smile


Since the app is the best way to control the piano settings it would be nice to be able to wirelessly connect to a device as a built feature. No web surfing involved more IOT.


Now learning: Chopin C# minor Nocturne (posth), Mozart Sonata in C K. 545, R. Schumann Fantasy Dance, Joplin The Chrysanthemum
Instruments: Yamaha N1X, Kawai ES110, Roland GO:PIANO, Piano de Voyage
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
MacMacMac #2834667 04/03/19 06:11 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,181
A
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
A
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,181
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I wonder what's fuss (tell me what's a-happening) about the lack of wifi? Should I be web-surfing on my piano? smile

No, but you should be able to easily connect the N1X to the Yamaha app that simplifies using the DP. The connection options are either a USB cable or wi-fi. If you don't want cables dangling around you need to use wi-fi. But the wi-fi adapter is not built-in, so you need to buy an adapter that costs an additional 90 EUR and will stick out of the USB port. Then, the external device must be connected to the N1X's network access point, meaning it will be disconnected from your local network. So, dangling cables are definitely the way to go with the N1X...

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
arc7urus #2834669 04/03/19 06:24 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,198
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,198
Originally Posted by arc7urus
Then, the external device must be connected to the N1X's network access point, meaning it will be disconnected from your local network

Is this the case? My P-515 is able to join an existing network according to the owners manual.


Richwood RD-17C-CE | LaMancha Rubi CM-N | Yamaha P-515
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
arc7urus #2834672 04/03/19 06:30 AM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 69
P
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 69
Originally Posted by arc7urus

No, but you should be able to easily connect the N1X to the Yamaha app that simplifies using the DP. The connection options are either a USB cable or wi-fi. If you don't want cables dangling around you need to use wi-fi. But the wi-fi adapter is not built-in, so you need to buy an adapter that costs an additional 90 EUR and will stick out of the USB port. Then, the external device must be connected to the N1X's network access point, meaning it will be disconnected from your local network. So, dangling cables are definitely the way to go with the N1X...

That all sounds shocking short sighted.

Might have been okay for a DP designed in the 20th Century but very poor for a device that has just been released.

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
JoeT #2834676 04/03/19 06:42 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,132
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,132
Originally Posted by JoeT
Originally Posted by arc7urus
Then, the external device must be connected to the N1X's network access point, meaning it will be disconnected from your local network

Is this the case? My P-515 is able to join an existing network according to the owners manual.

I haven't tested it but after reading the manual that's also my understanding. The N1X will present itself as an Access Point only the first time, so that the mobile app will be able to connect to it and set configuration details such as your home wireless AP details and credentials. From there on, the Yamaha will connect itself to your AP and the mobile app will use your home network so that it can discover and communicate with the N1X. That's a pretty standard procedure for connecting smart devices to your home network and controlling them with mobile applications. I have a robot cleaner and a baby camera that were configured the same way.


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2834677 04/03/19 06:46 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,398
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,398
It seems to me that if you can't control the N1X from the N1X ... and you must use some other device to do so ...
Then the problem is not the lack of wifi in the N1X. It's poor UI. Poor usability. There's no excuse for that.
Where's Don Norman to weigh in on this?

So just what things must you do to the N1X that you cannot do without wifi?

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2834682 04/03/19 07:00 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,132
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,132
Although I agree it could have had a better interface, let's not forget it's an acoustic piano replacement. It's not a workstation or a synth. How many people would buy real grand piano and will need to tweak setting all the time? I only switch it on and play. All is great by default. Even if it's not, I can tweak it through some key combinations and that's it, it's a one-off thing. I am not here to defend the outdated interface, actually I gave 4 stars out of 5 for "features" in my review in Thomann exactly because of this fact and the lack of embedded Wi-Fi, but I would personally love to even have the entire panel hidden like in the N3X. I really see no point in them providing touch screen or any fancy UI, so that only you can put your wi-fi password in an easier way. What's the huge problem in a one-off procedure to connect your phone to the piano so that you can configure wi-fi and from there on you won't need to do that anymore unless you change your home network? Everything on the N1X can be configured through key combinations, no need for the app. I know that you can do note by note volume adjustments through the app only but that's absolutely unnecessary since the note volume is even and well chosen by Yamaha and I can't see how one would need to improve it at all. I mean, what's the fuss about the outdated UI? smile Honestly, I haven't even used the other voices lately. I just switch on and play with the CFX, either though speakers or headphones. I would be perfectly OK if the piano had only one CFX voice, a volume knob and a power button smile But that's me.

Last edited by CyberGene; 04/03/19 07:03 AM.

My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2834683 04/03/19 07:01 AM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 790
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 790
Careful about wishing for WiFi in your digital pianos ... What if hackers got in and made it play "Für Elise", badly, no matter what you did, unless you paid them a ransom? wink


Roland FP-30, Roland E-28
Synthogy Studio Grands, Production Voices Estate Grand, Garritan CFX Lite, Pianoteq 6.7.3 (Blüthner, Bechstein DG, Grotrian, Steinway D, K2)
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
arc7urus #2834684 04/03/19 07:11 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 3,145
P
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 3,145
Originally Posted by arc7urus
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I wonder what's fuss (tell me what's a-happening) about the lack of wifi? Should I be web-surfing on my piano? smile

No, but you should be able to easily connect the N1X to the Yamaha app that simplifies using the DP. The connection options are either a USB cable or wi-fi. If you don't want cables dangling around you need to use wi-fi. But the wi-fi adapter is not built-in, so you need to buy an adapter that costs an additional 90 EUR and will stick out of the USB port. Then, the external device must be connected to the N1X's network access point, meaning it will be disconnected from your local network. So, dangling cables are definitely the way to go with the N1X...


arc7urus, are you being sarcastic when you say, “...dangling cables are definitely the way to go...,” or are you into dangling cables?

Personally, I pass on dangling cables; If I see a dangling cable when I’m playing, I have to stop, conceal the offending cable (OCD), and only then can I proceed.

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
CyberGene #2834685 04/03/19 07:15 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,198
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,198
Originally Posted by CyberGene
I would be perfectly OK if the piano had only one CFX voice, a volume knob and a power button smile But that's me.

You mean like an acoustic piano which has only one voice, no volume knob and no power button?

Maybe Yamaha had a similar UI like Kawai in development for the N1X, then saw how Kawai struggled with their first implementation and pulled it in the last second reverting to the tried and tested interface from the previous generation? Who knows.

Also keeping the radio separate is a very sensible choice for a long-life product, only the price for the option is debatable (a simple USB Wi-Fi interface doesn't have to cost 75 €). The P-515 doesn't need a special setup procedure, you can enter the network credentials directly into the menu.


Richwood RD-17C-CE | LaMancha Rubi CM-N | Yamaha P-515
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
JoeT #2834688 04/03/19 07:20 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,181
A
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
A
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,181
Originally Posted by JoeT
Originally Posted by arc7urus
Then, the external device must be connected to the N1X's network access point, meaning it will be disconnected from your local network

Is this the case? My P-515 is able to join an existing network according to the owners manual.


The user interface of the P-515 provides the option to configure the UD-WL01 wireless adapter to be used as an access point or to join an existing network (this is how wireless connectivity is provided by several DPs). However, the N1X has a basic user interface and selecting a network and providing a password is not possible. So, unless the UD-WL01 + N1X can be setup using automated WPS and set to work in so-called "LAN infrastructure" mode, only access point mode will be available. I will check if the manuals have further info on this regarding the N1X.

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
Pete14 #2834692 04/03/19 07:28 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,181
A
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
A
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,181
Originally Posted by Pete14
Originally Posted by arc7urus
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I wonder what's fuss (tell me what's a-happening) about the lack of wifi? Should I be web-surfing on my piano? smile

No, but you should be able to easily connect the N1X to the Yamaha app that simplifies using the DP. The connection options are either a USB cable or wi-fi. If you don't want cables dangling around you need to use wi-fi. But the wi-fi adapter is not built-in, so you need to buy an adapter that costs an additional 90 EUR and will stick out of the USB port. Then, the external device must be connected to the N1X's network access point, meaning it will be disconnected from your local network. So, dangling cables are definitely the way to go with the N1X...


arc7urus, are you being sarcastic when you say, “...dangling cables are definitely the way to go...,” or are you into dangling cables?

Personally, I pass on dangling cables; If I see a dangling cable when I’m playing, I have to stop, conceal the offending cable (OCD), and only then can I proceed.

Unfortunately it is a mix between being sarcastic and pragmatic wink I also obsess with dangling cables. However, hiding the offending USB cable might prove to be easier than having to deal with a protruding wireless adapter and setting up a network connection every time one wants to use the app. Moreover, the N1X does not seem to support Bluetooth MIDI (only BT Audio). The cabled connection would also enable MIDI connectivity. As a result, the cable indeed seems to be the better option if you want to connect this DP to an external device...

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
arc7urus #2834695 04/03/19 07:44 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,198
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,198
Originally Posted by arc7urus
Moreover, the N1X does not seem to support Bluetooth MIDI (only BT Audio).

Though Yamaha provides Bluetooth MIDI option as well.


Richwood RD-17C-CE | LaMancha Rubi CM-N | Yamaha P-515
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
CyberGene #2834709 04/03/19 08:27 AM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 4,950
G
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 4,950
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Although I agree it could have had a better interface, let's not forget it's an acoustic piano replacement. It's not a workstation or a synth. How many people would buy real grand piano and will need to tweak setting all the time? I only switch it on and play.


While I sit down and play most of the time too, having a usable interface makes a big difference in day to day operation,. Not only can I change settings and save than as new favorites that can be recalled at the touch of a button, I can also start a recording with one touch (and name it whatever I want). I can view a file system and select to playback any file from USB stick. I can start/stop the metronome, and easily adjust its volume and time signature and speed from the screen. I can select from banks of other instruments (and see what they actually are), easily make and test per-key or global adjustments, start/stop/see dozens of demo songs, etc. I don't do all of these every day, but every week I end up using some combination of advanced functions that benefit from a descriptive user interface. Some of these things my daughter really enjoys and it keeps her interested in the instrument, which is a bit of a plus for a parent, too.

If I couldn't easily do any of these things, I would just sit down and play without doing much else either. But I think you may not be appreciating the impact of friction on how you operate the device, and how your operation may change if that friction were removed?

When I play the NU1 (similar interface to the N1X), I also don't touch a thing, because I have no idea what any button does and what combinations of keypress are required, how to undo anything I might activate, or what the three-element LED is trying to say. But if the controls were more intuitive, I would likely use them more.

Just my $0.02 smile


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2834730 04/03/19 09:12 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,398
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,398
I can deal with the dangling cables. Mine are all hidden.
I might feel otherwise if I had a slab-on-a-stand. It would be hard to hide the clutter, eh?

@QuasiUnaFantasia: Regarding wifi, you ask "What if hackers got in and made it play Fur Elise badly ... unless you paid them a ransom?"
This is not a problem for me. That hacker doesn't need wifi to hack in. He already has direct keyboard access to the piano. That would be me. smile

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2834732 04/03/19 09:16 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,132
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,132
For metronome and recordings it’s really pretty easy. Well, you need to know how to select the USB as a destination and audio as format (which is fine through song + selection button until U is displayed, then a particular track is selected with the full ones denoted by dots between the digits) laugh I know it can be absurd but once you know that it’s ultra easy. I mean it’s a single click, then pressing the record button. The touch interface of Kawai also needs some prior knowledge such as you need to swipe left/right to change instruments.

As to saving registrations. What kind of registrations do you save and recall? Do you mean split and layers patches? There’s no such thing in the N1X and so there’s also no need for a dedicated interface. I’ve never ever used splits or layers on my previous Kawai ES7. Call me purist but I find almost anything different than acoustic piano, harpsichord or Rhodes cheesy laugh


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
Gombessa #2834742 04/03/19 09:48 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,198
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,198
Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Although I agree it could have had a better interface, let's not forget it's an acoustic piano replacement. It's not a workstation or a synth. How many people would buy real grand piano and will need to tweak setting all the time? I only switch it on and play.

While I sit down and play most of the time too, having a usable interface makes a big difference in day to day operation,.

The first two weeks I played the menus of my P-515 more than the keys. wink But now I'm back to how I used the ES100 without any interface beside a few buttons: Turn on, start playing piano, stop playing piano, leave the piano to turn itself off. The rhythms were fun as well in the first weeks, as were the one button layering with strings/pads.

My only wishes left are: 1. faster boot time, 2. having a single front panel button to turn Binaural on or off independent of the headphones plug (maybe there is a hidden function + piano key combo for that?). I like to turn it off for serious practice sessions, so I can hear better what I'm doing on the keys. I still do not record myself, don't use accompaniment, rarely use the metronome and use only the two piano voices. So while I don't intend to defend to 1980s interface of the AvantGrand, I think could live with it, without missing the nested menu system too much.


Richwood RD-17C-CE | LaMancha Rubi CM-N | Yamaha P-515
Page 21 of 171 1 2 19 20 21 22 23 170 171

Moderated by  Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Karsten Collection
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
Our October 2020 Free Piano Newsletter is Here!
---------------------
3,000,000+!
------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Baldwin Acrosonic Spinet has 3 "twanging" bass keys.
by trooplewis - 10/28/20 09:57 PM
Question about HP704 and acoustic pianos
by paxel - 10/28/20 08:37 PM
Shopping for a hybrid digital
by Zora - 10/28/20 12:45 PM
Steinway Model M concerns?
by calenadariel - 10/28/20 12:41 PM
Got my job back after COVID but now...injury.
by TwoSnowflakes - 10/28/20 11:37 AM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics202,456
Posts3,018,175
Members99,059
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2020 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4