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Re: Nord introduces Nord Grand with Kawai Hammer action
Kenny Cheng #2834201 04/02/19 09:41 AM
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That’s interesting!
Wonder if the price is under $5k? wink


.... Jeff ▫️ Yamaha P515 ▫️ Roll Tide
Re: Nord introduces Nord Grand with Kawai Hammer action
Kenny Cheng #2834202 04/02/19 09:47 AM
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Please keep in mind all Nord keyboards does not have internal speaker systems.

That’s why the weight is lighter (for live/stage performance purpose).

If you need speaker systems, you will need additional monitors.

Re: Nord introduces Nord Grand with Kawai Hammer action
Doug M. #2834207 04/02/19 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Doug M.
So whilst Kawai aren't selling a Nord like instrument (not operating in that sub-market)

Well, not exactly the vintage type of interface but the MP7SE is very similar to a Nord Piano and now Nord Grand, the same action. Only there are no upload-able sounds. Other than that it's the same weight and costs probably 5 times less smile Which is why I think Kawai decided to give that action to Nord, they are in a different price range. With the MP Kawai are in the budget range, while Nord is in the premium range. It was really a shame that they used cheap and (supposedly low-quality) Fatar actions, a long time cons.


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Re: Nord introduces Nord Grand with Kawai Hammer action
propianist #2834208 04/02/19 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by arc7urus
Originally Posted by Kenny Cheng
It seems it will be RH3

Kind of disappointed....

Me too...

Nord sells stage pianos. 60 and 70 lb instruments are not for their market.

Originally Posted by propianist
120 polyphony is pathetic, I agree.
120 polyphony is for the piano engine alone. An additional layered sound will have its own polyphony and won't take away from piano. Also, Nord handles polyphony very well. Even the earlier generation, which topped out at 60 polyphony, did not really generate complaints in actual use.

['quote=propianist]to play all their Steinway, Bosendorfer and Yamaha samples from! No Kawai pianos?![/quote]
Yes, they have a Kawai sample set. The Silver Grand is this one: http://www.kawai-global.com/product/sk-7/


Re: Nord introduces Nord Grand with Kawai Hammer action
Kenny Cheng #2834210 04/02/19 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Kenny Cheng
Please keep in mind all Nord keyboards does not have internal speaker systems.

That’s why the weight is lighter (for live/stage performance purpose).


I have to disagree with this. Neither the VPC-1 nor the MP11SE have built-in speakers, and they're both 65-70+lb. The stainless steel chassis and wooden keybed/keys account for the majority of the weight.

In fact, there are some businesses out there that chop up Casio and Yamaha lightweight keyboards for maximum portability and weight savings, and they've opted to KEEP the built-in speakers on account that the added weight is not significant and the benefit of retaining built-in speakers is significant.



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Re: Nord introduces Nord Grand with Kawai Hammer action
Kenny Cheng #2834214 04/02/19 10:11 AM
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... but I thought the Nord “Grand” was meant to be a new category of instrument. First the deeper spinet-type enclosure and then the partnership with Kawai sort of point to a different direction from the usual. I must say they did keep it red.... right?

Still, arc7urus, this seems like the paradigm shift we’ve all been waiting for: from Fatar folded to Kawai folded, plastic keys (because this is Nord), spinet form (but this is not Nord), and finally, RED! Where can I sign up for this masterpiece?

Oh, I forgot; the specs only tell half the story, so in theory, this Grand could potentially outplay the Novus. Yes, the Novus uses a grand piano action with damper mechanism, but then again, specs only tell half the story!

I really don’t get this instrument nor the association with Kawai. If they’re not interested in the purist -mostly piano- crowd, then why this thing that points in that direction, yet then reverses to a synth-like instrument in a spinet form factor with Kawai plastic keys!

Is this thing a contradiction in terms, or am I simply getting old?

P.S.

I’ve not taken my medications, so this might’ve influenced my initial impression, but still, I’m mad as heck! laugh



Re: Nord introduces Nord Grand with Kawai Hammer action
Pete14 #2834215 04/02/19 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Pete14
I really don’t get this instrument nor the association with Kawai.

The biggest complaint about Nord Pianos here (even among those looking for portable stage pianos) has been "I wish they were available with a better action." So, there you go.

Re: Nord introduces Nord Grand with Kawai Hammer action
Kenny Cheng #2834218 04/02/19 10:19 AM
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It's very simple. Nord want to position themselves as a premium brand yet they use some cheap Fatar actions. There's a contradiction. They need to escape from that image, hence the Nord Grand.

Last edited by CyberGene; 04/02/19 10:19 AM.

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Re: Nord introduces Nord Grand with Kawai Hammer action
CyberGene #2834223 04/02/19 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
It's very simple. Nord want to position themselves as a premium brand yet they use some cheap Fatar actions. There's a contradiction. They need to escape from that image, hence the Nord Grand.


That's quite a loaded statement. I'm not a big Fatar fan, but it's not like there are a lot of turnkey white-label piano actions out there for DP makers to use...I bet this Kawai deal was quite a long time in the works.


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Re: Nord introduces Nord Grand with Kawai Hammer action
Kenny Cheng #2834225 04/02/19 10:29 AM
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Nice ! Good to see them addressing their weak link. Still for live, the CP4 does everything I need it to do.

For home I have the P-515 in my sights because of the speakers. But I'd consider this if it had the MP11 or even the lesser VPC-1 action , even without the speakers. I'd have to get a custom black paint job on it though.

Still looking forward to playing one but I'll bet at least in the $3500 to $4000 range. Knowing Nord, it could be more.


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Re: Nord introduces Nord Grand with Kawai Hammer action
Kenny Cheng #2834226 04/02/19 10:31 AM
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My point exactly, Gombessa. Just how bad are these Fatar actions? It seems like many people like them. So this Kawai action, in my opinion, is not much different; considering the similar -folded- design.

Re: Nord introduces Nord Grand with Kawai Hammer action
Gombessa #2834231 04/02/19 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by CyberGene
It's very simple. Nord want to position themselves as a premium brand yet they use some cheap Fatar actions. There's a contradiction. They need to escape from that image, hence the Nord Grand.


That's quite a loaded statement. I'm not a big Fatar fan, but it's not like there are a lot of turnkey white-label piano actions out there for DP makers to use...I bet this Kawai deal was quite a long time in the works.

Well, I didn't say Fatar are bad actions myself. But you can't deny Fatar has a rather bad reputation. Many people would say they are not as good as Yamaha/Kawai/Roland and many would also tell you they are not of high quality either. I'm not discussing whether that's a justified criticism or unfair prejudice. But you have to admit the most common criticism of Nord is their usage of Fatar actions. They want to improve on that. That's marketing.


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Re: Nord introduces Nord Grand with Kawai Hammer action
Pete14 #2834232 04/02/19 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Pete14
My point exactly, Gombessa. Just how bad are these Fatar actions? It seems like many people like them. So this Kawai action, in my opinion, is not much different; considering the similar -folded- design.


For one, the Kawai action has velocity measuring on the hammer part, compared to the key in the Fatar design. At least that's what Nord claim in their description. It certainly makes a difference, or why would they bother mentioning it?


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Re: Nord introduces Nord Grand with Kawai Hammer action
Kenny Cheng #2834233 04/02/19 10:44 AM
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Gals and guys, I think you have to play this thing before making conclusions.

I don't need this instrument (now) because I already own basically the same functionality (plus an organ and a second manual wink ), but as anotherscott says, the action was really the weak point of the Nords for pianistic use. Just imagine the sheer variety of the Nord Piano Library, available with a great action satisfying more advanced needs, and equipped with a direct access interface...

The polyphony certainly won't be a limitation in practice.

Re: Nord introduces Nord Grand with Kawai Hammer action
Kenny Cheng #2834244 04/02/19 10:54 AM
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That slanted controls panel seems to me a drawback for the stage. Many people like to watch pianist's hands and that thing is likely to block the view.

Re: Nord introduces Nord Grand with Kawai Hammer action
Kenny Cheng #2834247 04/02/19 11:02 AM
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Depends on how the piano is placed. You can't see the hands of a pianist playing on a grand from the front either.

And for the pianist these slanted controls are just great.


Shigeru Kawai SK-2, etc.
Re: Nord introduces Nord Grand with Kawai Hammer action
maurus #2834270 04/02/19 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by maurus
Just imagine the sheer variety of the Nord Piano Library, available with a great action satisfying more advanced needs, and equipped with a direct access interface...
.


I wonder how many maximum-sized voice sample sets one can fit on this. I know a pet peeve of many Nord owners has been having to unload a sample set so they could load a different sample set.

Re: Nord introduces Nord Grand with Kawai Hammer action
R111 #2834276 04/02/19 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by R111
Originally Posted by maurus
Just imagine the sheer variety of the Nord Piano Library, available with a great action satisfying more advanced needs, and equipped with a direct access interface...
.


I wonder how many maximum-sized voice sample sets one can fit on this. I know a pet peeve of many Nord owners has been having to unload a sample set so they could load a different sample set.

The Nord Grand has 2GB memory for the Nord Piano Library. Each grand piano that has a XL sample set takes 180-200 MB. The L sample set is 80-100MB. There are 11 pianos on Nord's library and not all of them have a XL sample set. So, you probably can load all of the grand pianos. If you skip a couple of grand pianos, there could be enough space left to fit most of the other instruments on the Piano Library since they use smaller sample sets.

Re: Nord introduces Nord Grand with Kawai Hammer action
Iaroslav Vasiliev #2834278 04/02/19 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Iaroslav Vasiliev
That slanted controls panel seems to me a drawback for the stage. Many people like to watch pianist's hands and that thing is likely to block the view.


I've always thought this to be the optimum position on stage for a pianist: partly so you can turn towards the audience for emphasis and partly so you can see what the band is doing.

[Linked Image]

Also, having played on a keyboard with a slanted control panel, I actually found it easier to use: you can see the dials without leaning forward, and dials at the back of the board are closer to you.

Hence why electone organs---which are button heavy and require more user interaction during performance than a stage piano usually does---use a slanted design:

[Linked Image]


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Re: Nord introduces Nord Grand with Kawai Hammer action
CyberGene #2834281 04/02/19 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Originally Posted by Pete14
My point exactly, Gombessa. Just how bad are these Fatar actions? It seems like many people like them. So this Kawai action, in my opinion, is not much different; considering the similar -folded- design.


For one, the Kawai action has velocity measuring on the hammer part, compared to the key in the Fatar design. At least that's what Nord claim in their description. It certainly makes a difference, or why would they bother mentioning it?


Hi CyberGene,

I find the 'willingness' of Kawai in allowing Nord to use the RMIII interesting...Some have said that the MP7SE is a competitor to the Nord; however, to me there is enough different about them. That said, it's unusual for a manufacturer to give competitive advantage to another firm.

Makes me wonder if an RHIV is soon to be released on some new boards e.g., the ES9 and the MP8.

Kind regards,

Doug.


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