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Re: I think I figured out "musicality"
TwelfthRoot2 #2832994 03/30/19 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by TwelfthRoot2
I'm not even completely convinced that the goal of these posts isn't to troll.


That would be too much effort for just trolling.

Re: I think I figured out "musicality"
baudelairepianist #2833001 03/30/19 09:46 AM
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Hi James,

I don't known what your end goal is but it seems like you are trying to break some sort of world record.
Are you intending to become a musician?
I love music. I try my best to do my main job very efficiently so that I can spend the rest of time with music. I don't care how much time I spend on music because I love it.

Here are my questions for you:

Do you love classical music?
Do you listen to non-piano music a lot?
Would you try to find out the historical background of the music that you listen to?

Re: I think I figured out "musicality"
baudelairepianist #2833003 03/30/19 09:49 AM
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I am not going to discuss the rationale of learning Chopin with Synthesia, if that is the OPs goal to learn advanced piano pieces without a teacher. But for me playing Chopin and any other composer is not about pressing the right keys in the right time, with the right speed and pressure. My only suggestion is - if you don't want to read scores - read performance commentaries, and books about Chopin's style, and historical context of his music.

https://pwm.com.pl/en/sklep/publikacja/introduction-to-the-national-edition-of-the-works-of-fryderyk-chopin,jan-ekier,17957,shop.htm

https://www.amazon.com/Lunivers-musical-Chopin-Jean-Jacques-Eigeldinger/dp/2213607516

My opinion is that you have to work on the structure of music, by paying attention to the left hand - Chopin was of the opinion that the role of the left hand for pianist is similar to that of a conductor in the orchestra. The other issues are Chopinesque rubato, how to make piano sing - Chopin transposed the tradition of bel canto to piano music, and pedalling which can be very tricky. Technical details are something that has to be addressed individually, that is why most people really need a good teacher. Of course you can also read books about piano technique - this one is very good

https://www.amazon.com/Piano-Playing-Motion-Sound-Expression/dp/0028722809

I am sure there are many more valuable books for autodidactics.

But frankly speaking, when I was reading Sandor's book, I was already instructed on several details of his technique by my teacher, and the other one introduced more details on differences in styles and touch depending on the period - baroque, classical, or romantic. There are also differences in the application of ornamentation between baroque, and romantic period, there are specificities of pedalling, and much more to learn from teachers. That is just more convenient way, than looking for each piece of information in academic, or professional sources.

Having said that, I wish you good luck with your attempts.


Last edited by justyna_ewa; 03/30/19 09:51 AM.

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Re: I think I figured out "musicality"
Moo :) #2833014 03/30/19 10:26 AM
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I'll post an updated version of the method in the future after testing on a etude.
Turns out that trying to separate repetitions into finger-staccato practice/no-pedal/wrist-legato was incorrect since it ingrains the wrong technique/memory for the goal sound.

Re: I think I figured out "musicality"
Kenny Cheng #2833018 03/30/19 10:47 AM
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End goal is to escape into VR and get an anime waifu lol

But for now i'm trying to develop a hyper-efficient method of practice using just Synthesia to learn all the pieces I like which I can then use for playing gigs.

Do you love classical music? Yes, mostly Chopin and Bach.

Do you listen to non-piano music a lot? Not really, though occasionally Bach chorales or Heifetz violin concertos.

Would you try to find out the historical background of the music that you listen to? I'd rather play it how I like?

Re: I think I figured out "musicality"
baudelairepianist #2833024 03/30/19 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by baudelairepianist
But for now i'm trying to develop a hyper-efficient method of practice using just Synthesia to learn all the pieces I like which I can then use for playing gigs.
What kind of gigs?


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Re: I think I figured out "musicality"
pianoloverus #2833029 03/30/19 11:14 AM
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What if I don't like the composers intentions based on some of the "standard" recordings

Am I not allowed to:
drop notes
cut out sections
rearrange sections
change pedaling, dynamics, and tempo

Consider these 2 recording of Chopin prelude 3

Cho
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mStlxA97i_o

Cortot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZAt3cqDyJ4

I prefer Cortot.
Which is closer to what Chopin sounded like?

If Chopin himself said Cho was closer to his vision then I wouldn't care since I like Cortot's version better.

Re: I think I figured out "musicality"
Carey #2833031 03/30/19 11:19 AM
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Fancy restaurants, cruise-ships, dinner parties, weddings...?
Maybe even recitals and concerts if I get good enough.

Which is why i'm primarily learning all the Chopin waltzes and nocturnes for now.

Re: I think I figured out "musicality"
TwelfthRoot2 #2833037 03/30/19 11:35 AM
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Yes (Dunning–Kruger effect)

However just compare the end quality of the pieces

Before (I separated out technique/memory into different repetition types with no focus on "musicality" since I thought it came after through experience and polish)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_WMUDlQLUM&list=PLnrd13DbIJexll0SCZqVIHk6kF7B0_pMh&index=10

After
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMk...0SCZqVIHk6kF7B0_pMh&index=2&t=0s

Re: I think I figured out "musicality"
baudelairepianist #2833053 03/30/19 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by baudelairepianist
Fancy restaurants, cruise-ships, dinner parties, weddings...?


You don't have to worry about musicality or technique. Probably you will barely hear what you play.

Re: I think I figured out "musicality"
rach3master #2833055 03/30/19 12:25 PM
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In terms of "time" needed

prima-vista sight-read >>> learn and understand sheets >>> Synthesia + new method which addresses "musicality"

Thus my approach is the most efficient.

It's like telling someone who wants to make websites
to learn computer science (bottom-up learning)
when it's much more efficient to use a site builder and then learn a framework like React. (top-down learning)

Re: I think I figured out "musicality"
baudelairepianist #2833056 03/30/19 12:28 PM
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A leopard never changes its spots.

But some leopards just don't want to change their spots.


This much I've gleaned from some posters in PW........


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: I think I figured out "musicality"
baudelairepianist #2833057 03/30/19 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by baudelairepianist
In terms of "time" needed

prima-vista sight-read >>> learn and understand sheets >>> Synthesia + new method which addresses "musicality"

Thus my approach is the most efficient.

It's like telling someone who wants to make websites
to learn computer science (bottom-up learning)
when it's much more efficient to use a site builder and then learn a framework like React. (top-down learning)



Site builders are the work of the devil (coding purist here, sorry). It all depends if you really want to understand what you’re doing. Same applies to music.

Last edited by ShyPianist; 03/30/19 12:30 PM.

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Re: I think I figured out "musicality"
ShyPianist #2833062 03/30/19 12:47 PM
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I was thinking something like CODEPEN or REPL since It's a good start for beginners to play with html/css/javascript.

But WordPress can die. lol

Re: I think I figured out "musicality"
baudelairepianist #2833063 03/30/19 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by baudelairepianist
In terms of "time" needed

prima-vista sight-read >>> learn and understand sheets >>> Synthesia + new method which addresses "musicality"

Thus my approach is the most efficient.

What?


I've started playing January 2017, Nothing is too easy is where I keep track of my progress.

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Re: I think I figured out "musicality"
Keselo #2833065 03/30/19 01:02 PM
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comparison of amount of time needed?

It's faster for me atm to just use Synthesia rather than learning sheets now that I think I figured out musicality after modifying the method.

Re: I think I figured out "musicality"
baudelairepianist #2833067 03/30/19 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by baudelairepianist
comparison of amount of time needed?

It's faster for me atm to just use Synthesia rather than learning sheets now that I think I figured out musicality after modifying the method.

Right. I thought you meant it's the most efficient method, period. I can see how it's the most efficient way to learn new things for you at this moment. I also think that, if you took the effort to learn to read sheet music, it would no longer be the most efficient method in two years time. But I know that your goal is to figure out how far you can get using the method you've developed for yourself, so it's a bit of a moot point.


I've started playing January 2017, Nothing is too easy is where I keep track of my progress.

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Re: I think I figured out "musicality"
baudelairepianist #2833068 03/30/19 01:11 PM
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James mate you have not ‘figured out’ musicality yet.

You got some very good advise from Bruce and yet your response was a silly.

Originally Posted by baudelairepianist
That's how I interpreted it so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Why don’t you listen to any advice ?

Don’t you think we know what we are talking about ?

But carry on, you are very entertaining !

Re: I think I figured out "musicality"
baudelairepianist #2833070 03/30/19 01:15 PM
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Again: Learn to read sheet music. Synthesia is inefficient!

Learning how to read sheet music may be painfully slow at first but it'll prove to be a good investment. Remember how you learned how to read back in kindergarden or primary school? Initially you'd have to identify each letter on its own, combine them into words, etc. Now you're able to recognize words or even full sentences just by a quick glance.
When you first learn how to read sheet music you'll have to count lines to figure out what each note is, etc. After (lots of) practise you'll be able to recognize chords or even entire measures of sheet music. At that point you can sightread through lots of stuff.

When learning and memorising a poem, would you rather learn it by looking at the text or by watching a video of a robot and analysing the movement of its lips etc?

Re: I think I figured out "musicality"
Moo :) #2833072 03/30/19 01:24 PM
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I'm getting warmer though!

Oh no, that response was to rach3master
I appreciate Bruce's responses but they kind of boil down to "git gud".

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