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Yamaha HPH-MT5 headphones
#2832810 03/29/19 05:29 PM
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Hi everyone,

I got these headphones with my recently bought CA98 and I’m not sure how I feel about them to be honest. I also own a pair of Philips Fidelio X2 which I think gives a lot clearer sound. However, the Fidelios are open which means the a too much of a disturbance to the rest of the family. I know there are a lot of recommendations for Sennheiser headphones, how would you compare those to the MT5?

//iLogic

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Re: Yamaha HPH-MT5 headphones
iLogic #2833080 03/30/19 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by iLogic
Hi everyone,

I got these headphones with my recently bought CA98 and I’m not sure how I feel about them to be honest. I also own a pair of Philips Fidelio X2 which I think gives a lot clearer sound. However, the Fidelios are open which means the a too much of a disturbance to the rest of the family. I know there are a lot of recommendations for Sennheiser headphones, how would you compare those to the MT5?

//iLogic


There are lots of closed back headphones out there, not just Sennheisers.
There is a closed version of the Sennheisers (HD598C) which might suit, however, the sound won't compete with the X2's.
The HD600 open back headphones are great reference cans if you like a neutral sound; however, there are closed headphones like the AudioTechnica MRS7's which have a similar neutral sound signature for a lot less (very good value for money).

However, given that you like the X2's, that suggests neutral cans are perhaps not your thing.

Alternatives include:
V-Moda M100
Philips A5 PRO
Status Audio CB-1

The Status Audio CB-1 sound very similar to the X2's; however, the build quality won't be as good. That said, the sound from the Status Audio CB-1 is very good.

Kind regards,

Doug

Last edited by Doug M.; 03/30/19 01:49 PM.

Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7SE; Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: Yamaha HPH-MT5 headphones
Doug M. #2833234 03/31/19 02:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Doug M.
Originally Posted by iLogic
Hi everyone,

I got these headphones with my recently bought CA98 and I’m not sure how I feel about them to be honest. I also own a pair of Philips Fidelio X2 which I think gives a lot clearer sound. However, the Fidelios are open which means the a too much of a disturbance to the rest of the family. I know there are a lot of recommendations for Sennheiser headphones, how would you compare those to the MT5?

//iLogic


There are lots of closed back headphones out there, not just Sennheisers.
There is a closed version of the Sennheisers (HD598C) which might suit, however, the sound won't compete with the X2's.
The HD600 open back headphones are great reference cans if you like a neutral sound; however, there are closed headphones like the AudioTechnica MRS7's which have a similar neutral sound signature for a lot less (very good value for money).

However, given that you like the X2's, that suggests neutral cans are perhaps not your thing.

Alternatives include:
V-Moda M100
Philips A5 PRO
Status Audio CB-1

The Status Audio CB-1 sound very similar to the X2's; however, the build quality won't be as good. That said, the sound from the Status Audio CB-1 is very good.

Kind regards,

Doug


Thank you Dough for the reply.

However, while the X2 sound good, I still feel that the sound get mixed to much and turns into noise when playing fast and many notes simultaneously. This is perhaps something that can improve with settings, however, but this was very apparent on the MT5s whereas it was a bit better on the X2s. I still think I need neutral headphones so that all of the different tones shine through and aren’t blended into a big mess...

I’m probably returning the MT5s if this isn’t something I can better with settings. I would love to use the HD600s, but the open back is a problem. Perhaps the MRS7s then.

// iLogic

Re: Yamaha HPH-MT5 headphones
iLogic #2833264 03/31/19 05:19 AM
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Originally Posted by iLogic
Originally Posted by Doug M.
Originally Posted by iLogic
Hi everyone,

I got these headphones with my recently bought CA98 and I’m not sure how I feel about them to be honest. I also own a pair of Philips Fidelio X2 which I think gives a lot clearer sound. However, the Fidelios are open which means the a too much of a disturbance to the rest of the family. I know there are a lot of recommendations for Sennheiser headphones, how would you compare those to the MT5?

//iLogic


There are lots of closed back headphones out there, not just Sennheisers.
There is a closed version of the Sennheisers (HD598C) which might suit, however, the sound won't compete with the X2's.
The HD600 open back headphones are great reference cans if you like a neutral sound; however, there are closed headphones like the AudioTechnica MRS7's which have a similar neutral sound signature for a lot less (very good value for money).

However, given that you like the X2's, that suggests neutral cans are perhaps not your thing.

Alternatives include:
V-Moda M100
Philips A5 PRO
Status Audio CB-1

The Status Audio CB-1 sound very similar to the X2's; however, the build quality won't be as good. That said, the sound from the Status Audio CB-1 is very good.

Kind regards,

Doug


Thank you Dough for the reply.

However, while the X2 sound good, I still feel that the sound get mixed to much and turns into noise when playing fast and many notes simultaneously. This is perhaps something that can improve with settings, however, but this was very apparent on the MT5s whereas it was a bit better on the X2s. I still think I need neutral headphones so that all of the different tones shine through and aren’t blended into a big mess...

I’m probably returning the MT5s if this isn’t something I can better with settings. I would love to use the HD600s, but the open back is a problem. Perhaps the MRS7s then.

// iLogic


Hi iLogic,

The only issue with the MRS7s (we own a pair) is that when they arrive, the clamp tension is high (one of the trade-offs). Depending upon your head shape, you might well need to modify the cans (as per YouTube video) to fix the shape of the headband to match your own crown. This then fixed the issue for us.

Other options on the neutral side that are slightly more expensive are: the Shure SRH1540 and the Oppo PM-3. Depends on your budget really. They are both neutral sounding; however, I'm unaware of whether anybody uses them for piano (although I have a faint suspicion someone has a pair of the Shures..

Kind regards,

Doug.


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7SE; Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: Yamaha HPH-MT5 headphones
iLogic #2833479 03/31/19 04:26 PM
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Having searched around a bit I’ve got two other options on the table. The first one is the Sony MDR7506 and the other one is the AudioTechnica ATH-M40x.

Both are supposed to be excellent. I guess I’m slightly leaning towards one of these two having read lots of positives about them. Of course, there is also the Sennheiser HD 280 PROs.

Re: Yamaha HPH-MT5 headphones
iLogic #2833676 04/01/19 03:25 AM
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Originally Posted by iLogic
Having searched around a bit I’ve got two other options on the table. The first one is the Sony MDR7506 and the other one is the AudioTechnica ATH-M40x.

Both are supposed to be excellent. I guess I’m slightly leaning towards one of these two having read lots of positives about them. Of course, there is also the Sennheiser HD 280 PROs.


The AudioTechnica M40X is inferior to the MRS7 (the MRS7 is better also than the ATH-M50x), so if you can afford the MRS7, that is a better option.
Yes on the Sony, worth considering, but these you have mentioned are in the lower price bracket: is this price range more your expectation? The Sennheiser HD280 pros aren't going to be as good as the HD598C (for eg), and you may get the Sennheiser veil (especially as these are a cheaper model).

If you are more interested in cheaper closed-back headphones, please see this spreadsheet on GoogleDrive:
Headphones Under £100

Also, you may wish to check out the Sennheiser outlet deals website if you have less money to spend (or just like a good deal).

Bear in mind that reviews of headphones focus on price bracket: a great review for a £100 set of cans doesn't necessarily compare to a bad review for a £350 set of headphones---the expensive ones might still sound substantially better, as the review is matching like-for-like!

Kind regards,

Doug.

Last edited by Doug M.; 04/01/19 03:27 AM.

Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7SE; Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: Yamaha HPH-MT5 headphones
iLogic #2833679 04/01/19 03:32 AM
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One thing to bear in mind is that the majority of high-end headphones are high impedance, and will require a separate headphone amplifier when used with a digital piano. That's not necessarily a problem, of course, but it is something to be aware of.


Chris

Yamaha P-515, Yamaha Reface CP.
Re: Yamaha HPH-MT5 headphones
Cheshire Chris #2833684 04/01/19 03:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Cheshire Chris
One thing to bear in mind is that the majority of high-end headphones are high impedance, and will require a separate headphone amplifier when used with a digital piano. That's not necessarily a problem, of course, but it is something to be aware of.


Hi Chris,

This is true for many of the open back headphones we generally discuss on PianoWorld (HD600, HD650, HD800/S) that fall in the category of >300 ohms.
I believe all the closed-back options in the £300-500 category I've mentioned are all fairly low-impedance in comparison to the open-back favourites. Most digital pianos can handle upto 150 ohms comfortably.

Kind regards,

Doug.


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7SE; Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: Yamaha HPH-MT5 headphones
iLogic #2833690 04/01/19 04:21 AM
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Absolutely, Doug. I just wanted to point it out in case the original poster was unaware of the necessity of considering impedance when evaluating headphones.


Chris

Yamaha P-515, Yamaha Reface CP.
Re: Yamaha HPH-MT5 headphones
iLogic #2833723 04/01/19 07:27 AM
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If you go to the "master sticky thread" here: http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...no-master-sticky-thread.html#Post2752919
You'll find a headphones spreadsheet that you might find useful: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1L54-SeAByjKIqnE-1DXJMvxjxubJ6Lbv/view?usp=sharing
Originally Posted by iLogic
Having searched around a bit I’ve got two other options on the table. The first one is the Sony MDR7506 and the other one is the AudioTechnica ATH-M40x.

Both are supposed to be excellent. I guess I’m slightly leaning towards one of these two having read lots of positives about them. Of course, there is also the Sennheiser HD 280 PROs.

Re: Yamaha HPH-MT5 headphones
iLogic #2833732 04/01/19 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by iLogic
Originally Posted by Doug M.
Originally Posted by iLogic
Hi everyone,

I got these headphones with my recently bought CA98 and I’m not sure how I feel about them to be honest. I also own a pair of Philips Fidelio X2 which I think gives a lot clearer sound. However, the Fidelios are open which means the a too much of a disturbance to the rest of the family. I know there are a lot of recommendations for Sennheiser headphones, how would you compare those to the MT5?

//iLogic


There are lots of closed back headphones out there, not just Sennheisers.
There is a closed version of the Sennheisers (HD598C) which might suit, however, the sound won't compete with the X2's.
The HD600 open back headphones are great reference cans if you like a neutral sound; however, there are closed headphones like the AudioTechnica MRS7's which have a similar neutral sound signature for a lot less (very good value for money).

However, given that you like the X2's, that suggests neutral cans are perhaps not your thing.

Alternatives include:
V-Moda M100
Philips A5 PRO
Status Audio CB-1

The Status Audio CB-1 sound very similar to the X2's; however, the build quality won't be as good. That said, the sound from the Status Audio CB-1 is very good.

Kind regards,

Doug


Thank you Dough for the reply.

However, while the X2 sound good, I still feel that the sound get mixed to much and turns into noise when playing fast and many notes simultaneously. This is perhaps something that can improve with settings, however, but this was very apparent on the MT5s whereas it was a bit better on the X2s. I still think I need neutral headphones so that all of the different tones shine through and aren’t blended into a big mess...

I’m probably returning the MT5s if this isn’t something I can better with settings. I would love to use the HD600s, but the open back is a problem. Perhaps the MRS7s then.

// iLogic

Before dismissing the MT5s you should try different sound and VT settings. I suggest you keep SHS always disabled (especially in pianist mode) and test the different headphone settings (volume + type). Then go to the VT and sound settings and try out different voicing/brightness and tone control settings. In my experience with the CA98 I also find the _default_ settings to sound quite "muddy" over headphones, especially when using the damper pedal. But if you spend some time adjusting the settings you will likely find a setup you will be happy with. Anyway, my preferred sound setup is to route the CA98's sound to a VST (via line out), apply EQ and an ambiance filter and then listen using headphones through an headphone amp. But I find this to be too cumbersome a setup for daily practice...

Re: Yamaha HPH-MT5 headphones
iLogic #2833751 04/01/19 08:33 AM
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The more I try the MT5s with the HP605 and the P515...I am concluding that these are more suited to the Yamaha sound. The CFX especially sounds thunderous on the low end with these on (Binaural or not)...the Roland on the other hand, meh!

Against PTQ - they are good but I do understand they colour the sound when I compare them against the Bose headset...I think is this coloration that makes them sound nice on the P515s CFX.

Re: Yamaha HPH-MT5 headphones
iLogic #2833865 04/01/19 01:05 PM
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I’m a newbie when it comes to headphones as you might have guessed... I’m not restricting myself to the cheaper ones though, it’s just what I’ve read on top lists when googling advice. I will definitely try and tweak the sound arc7, but I just feel it’s way to muddy to be resolved by some settings, but here’s hoping it works. I just can’t help to feel that this Kawai doesn’t sound as clear with headphones as the Yamahas I’ve previously tried. When playing the Yamahas it was as if the piano was really playing and everyone else could hear it as well, whereas now, when I play this Kawai it definitely feels different, not as convincing.

However, the piano itself is superb, but I’d love to up the headphones experience to be more of a natural experience. I much prefer to play without headphones as it is now, but that has partly to do with feeling the vibrations from the soundboard.

But, regarding amps. How necessary are they and what happens if you don’t use them? I used my X2 just fine, but they are perhaps not very demanding?

If I can get a more crisp sound with headphones not requiring amps this is what I prefer. Is this the case with the MSR7s? What about the MT8s, more or less the same as the MT5? And about those Sonys... smile

Re: Yamaha HPH-MT5 headphones
iLogic #2833876 04/01/19 01:45 PM
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Ok so using Brilliant piano in pianist mode and Bright 2 with SHS off made a big difference indeed. Although you’ve got me interested in those MSR7s now Doug.... And I’m curious about the Sonys as well... might pick them up just to compare at least.

Thanks for all the suggestions and help guys!

Re: Yamaha HPH-MT5 headphones
iLogic #2833888 04/01/19 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by iLogic
But, regarding amps. How necessary are they and what happens if you don’t use them? I used my X2 just fine, but they are perhaps not very demanding?


If you use high-impedance headphones on a device which doesn't have the power to drive them properly, they'll be very quiet. Even with your DP on maximum volume, they may not be loud enough. Using a headphone amplifier boosts the signal. High-impedance headphones are designed primarily for use with high-end hi-fi systems which have a lot more power.


Chris

Yamaha P-515, Yamaha Reface CP.
Re: Yamaha HPH-MT5 headphones
iLogic #2833907 04/01/19 03:31 PM
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A lot more power? Nah.
Phones require a few milliwatts to reach deafening levels.
It's the same for hi-Z phones as for low-Z phones.

Re: Yamaha HPH-MT5 headphones
MacMacMac #2833910 04/01/19 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
A lot more power? Nah.
Phones require a few milliwatts to reach deafening levels.
It's the same for hi-Z phones as for low-Z phones.


Well, whatever the actual power levels involved are, the typical DP/phone/tablet doesn't have enough to drive high-impedance headphones laugh.


Chris

Yamaha P-515, Yamaha Reface CP.
Re: Yamaha HPH-MT5 headphones
iLogic #2833935 04/01/19 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by iLogic
I’m a newbie when it comes to headphones as you might have guessed... I’m not restricting myself to the cheaper ones though, it’s just what I’ve read on top lists when googling advice. I will definitely try and tweak the sound arc7, but I just feel it’s way to muddy to be resolved by some settings, but here’s hoping it works. I just can’t help to feel that this Kawai doesn’t sound as clear with headphones as the Yamahas I’ve previously tried. When playing the Yamahas it was as if the piano was really playing and everyone else could hear it as well, whereas now, when I play this Kawai it definitely feels different, not as convincing.

However, the piano itself is superb, but I’d love to up the headphones experience to be more of a natural experience. I much prefer to play without headphones as it is now, but that has partly to do with feeling the vibrations from the soundboard.

I think Yamaha does a better job than Kawai with the default out-of-the-box configurations. The sound engine on the CA78/98/NV10 can sound very good, but it needs some tweaking. And some settings, such as SHS, work fine with the older "sound mode" (HI-XL) but not with the new "pianist mode". But you will likely to be able to find sound settings that you will enjoy. Now, if only the CA78/98/NV10 had a proper settings/favourites management system, then tweaking all these sound settings would be easy...
Quote
But, regarding amps. How necessary are they and what happens if you don’t use them? I used my X2 just fine, but they are perhaps not very demanding?

The MT5 and MT8 are below 50 Ohm. The Philips X2 are 30 Ohm. You might start thinking about an amp with 150+ Ohm headphones if you plan to use it to listen to music as well. Getting an amp just for the DP is probably not worth it since some DPs can even drive 250-300 Ohm headphones, although at a lower sound volume and with slight degradation in sound quality. If you get higher impedance headphones you can enable the high-impedance setting on the CA98 to get higher volume.

Re: Yamaha HPH-MT5 headphones
arc7urus #2834082 04/02/19 01:37 AM
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Originally Posted by arc7urus
Originally Posted by iLogic
I’m a newbie when it comes to headphones as you might have guessed... I’m not restricting myself to the cheaper ones though, it’s just what I’ve read on top lists when googling advice. I will definitely try and tweak the sound arc7, but I just feel it’s way to muddy to be resolved by some settings, but here’s hoping it works. I just can’t help to feel that this Kawai doesn’t sound as clear with headphones as the Yamahas I’ve previously tried. When playing the Yamahas it was as if the piano was really playing and everyone else could hear it as well, whereas now, when I play this Kawai it definitely feels different, not as convincing.

However, the piano itself is superb, but I’d love to up the headphones experience to be more of a natural experience. I much prefer to play without headphones as it is now, but that has partly to do with feeling the vibrations from the soundboard.

I think Yamaha does a better job than Kawai with the default out-of-the-box configurations. The sound engine on the CA78/98/NV10 can sound very good, but it needs some tweaking. And some settings, such as SHS, work fine with the older "sound mode" (HI-XL) but not with the new "pianist mode". But you will likely to be able to find sound settings that you will enjoy. Now, if only the CA78/98/NV10 had a proper settings/favourites management system, then tweaking all these sound settings would be easy...
Quote
But, regarding amps. How necessary are they and what happens if you don’t use them? I used my X2 just fine, but they are perhaps not very demanding?

The MT5 and MT8 are below 50 Ohm. The Philips X2 are 30 Ohm. You might start thinking about an amp with 150+ Ohm headphones if you plan to use it to listen to music as well. Getting an amp just for the DP is probably not worth it since some DPs can even drive 250-300 Ohm headphones, although at a lower sound volume and with slight degradation in sound quality. If you get higher impedance headphones you can enable the high-impedance setting on the CA98 to get higher volume.


Alright! Since I consider getting the MSR7s I guess impedance won't be an issue anyway since they are 35 Ohm, but it's nice to know that the CA98 can power more demanding headphones as well!

//iLogic

Re: Yamaha HPH-MT5 headphones
iLogic #2834104 04/02/19 03:11 AM
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Originally Posted by iLogic
Originally Posted by arc7urus
Originally Posted by iLogic
I’m a newbie when it comes to headphones as you might have guessed... I’m not restricting myself to the cheaper ones though, it’s just what I’ve read on top lists when googling advice. I will definitely try and tweak the sound arc7, but I just feel it’s way to muddy to be resolved by some settings, but here’s hoping it works. I just can’t help to feel that this Kawai doesn’t sound as clear with headphones as the Yamahas I’ve previously tried. When playing the Yamahas it was as if the piano was really playing and everyone else could hear it as well, whereas now, when I play this Kawai it definitely feels different, not as convincing.

However, the piano itself is superb, but I’d love to up the headphones experience to be more of a natural experience. I much prefer to play without headphones as it is now, but that has partly to do with feeling the vibrations from the soundboard.

I think Yamaha does a better job than Kawai with the default out-of-the-box configurations. The sound engine on the CA78/98/NV10 can sound very good, but it needs some tweaking. And some settings, such as SHS, work fine with the older "sound mode" (HI-XL) but not with the new "pianist mode". But you will likely to be able to find sound settings that you will enjoy. Now, if only the CA78/98/NV10 had a proper settings/favourites management system, then tweaking all these sound settings would be easy...
Quote
But, regarding amps. How necessary are they and what happens if you don’t use them? I used my X2 just fine, but they are perhaps not very demanding?

The MT5 and MT8 are below 50 Ohm. The Philips X2 are 30 Ohm. You might start thinking about an amp with 150+ Ohm headphones if you plan to use it to listen to music as well. Getting an amp just for the DP is probably not worth it since some DPs can even drive 250-300 Ohm headphones, although at a lower sound volume and with slight degradation in sound quality. If you get higher impedance headphones you can enable the high-impedance setting on the CA98 to get higher volume.


Alright! Since I consider getting the MSR7s I guess impedance won't be an issue anyway since they are 35 Ohm, but it's nice to know that the CA98 can power more demanding headphones as well!

//iLogic


Hi iLogic,

If you are thinking of purchasing a higher impedance headphone, although Kawai may not tell you the maximum impedance that the CA98 can power, they will let you know---if you tell them what headphones you're thinking of getting---whether you might need an additional headphone amp.

Kawai support in Europe let me know that I would need a headphone amp for my MP7 if I brought the HD600 or HD650 headphones (300 ohm) and that I should consider using a headphone amp for any headphones over 100 ohm impedance. By that I think that the amp in my MP7 can probably manage to drive headphones with impedance of 150 ohms, but that I'd get better sound using a headphone amp for any pair of cans over 100 ohms impedance.

Kind regards,

Doug


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7SE; Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
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by tierce_de_picardie - 01/15/21 07:45 PM
Polyester finish Yammy
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Stack of Thirds Temperament
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debussy Suite Bergamasque 2
by dolce sfogato - 01/15/21 06:44 PM
playing by ear or by notes
by hast66 - 01/15/21 05:51 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
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Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
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