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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: David B] #2832359
03/28/19 01:30 PM
03/28/19 01:30 PM
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karvala Offline
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If only they sold a gadget that would play the instrument as well for me....Think of how much time it would save!


Broadwood, Yamaha U1; Kawai CA67; Pianoteq Std (D4, K2, Blรผthner, Grotrian), Garritan CFX Full, Galaxy Vintage D, The Grandeur, Ravenscroft 275, Ivory II ACD, TrueKeys Italian, AS C7, Production Grand Compact, AK Studio Grand, AK Upright, Waves Grand Rhapsody; Sennheiser HD-600 and HD-650, O2 amp
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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: karvala] #2832374
03/28/19 01:55 PM
03/28/19 01:55 PM
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Posts: 9,424
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
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They did a century ago (the player piano) and they do today (Disklavier and the like for acoustic pianos, and MIDI player software for digital pianos).
Originally Posted by karvala
If only they sold a gadget that would play the instrument as well for me....Think of how much time it would save!

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: Gombessa] #2832393
03/28/19 03:07 PM
03/28/19 03:07 PM
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Posts: 84
Oregon, USA
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dancingfish Offline
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Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by David B

I was thinking how I can build one out of wood and paint it gloss black. I can put felt on the contact points and it would probably cost less than 20 dollars.


My thoughts exactly (especially the felt to protect the finish). And I think adjustments can be made to account for the non-adjustable nature of the music rests on the NV10/N1X so that it's not quite as slanted back.


Great idea. There's a Tap Plastics near me where I've had a clear plastic slanted table top desk made for calligraphy/lettering for about $16. I'm sure they'd be able to make one that would work for a music stand extension for less than or close to $20, at whatever size I'd like. I'm fairly short and am a little concerned about the height of the music stands on the N1X/NV10, which are the two I'm considering for upgrade.

If you guys make yours, please post pictures!


Linda
Kawaii CE220 | Pianoteq 5 Stage
In progress: Faber Adult All-In-One Book 2 | Fundamental Keys
[Linked Image] [Linked Image] XLVII
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: David B] #2832408
03/28/19 03:42 PM
03/28/19 03:42 PM
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Posts: 1,846
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Pete14 Online content
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Can I make one from cardboard? Or does it have to be reinforced ABS (otherwise known as plastic)?

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: David B] #2832441
03/28/19 05:40 PM
03/28/19 05:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2019
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Norway
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Azzawaba Offline
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The Yamaha Hybrid pianos sounds much better live than recorded and played back here and on youtube etc. I think the psychoacoustic experience when playing on it yourself live makes you believe it is the real deal. That is a good thing, I do not want to say that the Hybrids are bad, just that when recorded, no matter what, it is so obvious that it is not the real deal, it is very uninspiring and quite boring to listen to. My point? Those who buy these hybrids get all the benefits! and do not suffer from the boring and uninspiring experience as listeners do. And for the majority who buys these, I believe it is for her self and not her surroundings. :-)


Just play it
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: Azzawaba] #2832449
03/28/19 06:19 PM
03/28/19 06:19 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,198
Sofia, Bulgaria
CyberGene Offline
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Originally Posted by Azzawaba
The Yamaha Hybrid pianos sounds much better live than recorded and played back here and on youtube etc. I think the psychoacoustic experience when playing on it yourself live makes you believe it is the real deal. That is a good thing, I do not want to say that the Hybrids are bad, just that when recorded, no matter what, it is so obvious that it is not the real deal, it is very uninspiring and quite boring to listen to. My point? Those who buy these hybrids get all the benefits! and do not suffer from the boring and uninspiring experience as listeners do. And for the majority who buys these, I believe it is for her self and not her surroundings. :-)

I tend to agree. Listening to my recording above is not comparable to how I feel behind the piano even in that particular case with headphones and binaural sound. And then itโ€™s even better when playing on speakers. These are instruments for having a love affair with smile


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2832612
03/29/19 06:43 AM
03/29/19 06:43 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,181
Europe
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arc7urus Offline
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Originally Posted by JoBert
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Does 'familiarization" for a single evening include memorization? Because am I seeing wrong that you are playing without a score on your music rest? Count me impressed! thumb

The N1X is a grand piano form-factor, the scores are a bit high, they are not visible in the video laugh BTW, that's a point I'm still deciding whether a cons or a pros. The higher positioning of the note rest is good for me since I'm relatively tall and so the scores are in front of my eyes. On the other hand I need to sometimes look at my fingers and that makes it difficult to move my head constantly up and down frown

I had the same issue when I got the NV10. You'll get used to it and it will then feel absolutely normal. Looking up/down between score and fingers won't be a problem either. Well, at least that's how it was for me...


Ok, I understand that the music rest on an cabinet DP or on a grand stands higher than on an upright. The following are the height values I got from the specs:
- Kawai CA97: 92.5 cm
- Kawai CA98: 94.0 cm
- Kawai NV10: 92.5 cm

- Yamaha CLP 685: 102cm
- Yamaha CLP 675: 97 cm
- Yamaha CLP 665: 93 cm
- Yamaha N1X: 100 cm

- Yamaha CX (acoustic grand): 101 cm (103 cm on the CX 6/7)
- Kawai GL/GX (acoustic grand): 102 cm

These height values should roughly correspond to the position of the bottom of the music rest. So, the music rest on the NV10 should be the same height as on the CA97 and 1.5cm lower than on the CA98. On the N1X it sits 2cm lower than on the CLP685 and slightly higher than on other CLP models. The N1X has roughly the same height as an acoustic grand while the NV10 is ca. 10 cm lower.

Given this, I was surprised to learn than my teacher's grand should be "only" 7 cm higher than my CA98 since the music rest feels uncomfortably much higher than that. I am also confused by JoBert's comment since the music rest on the NV10 should be at exactly the same height as on his previous CA97 (Jobert: were you referring to upright vs NV10?) I would also expect the height of the keyboard/keys to the floor to be the same on all these instruments, which would mean that the bench height would not be a factor.

So, could the NV10 and N1X owners measure the actual height of the music rest?

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: arc7urus] #2832619
03/29/19 06:59 AM
03/29/19 06:59 AM
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percy64 Offline
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Originally Posted by arc7urus


Ok, I understand that the music rest on an cabinet DP or on a grand stands higher than on an upright. The following are the height values I got from the specs:
- Kawai CA97: 92.5 cm
- Kawai CA98: 94.0 cm
- Kawai NV10: 92.5 cm

- Yamaha CLP 685: 102cm
- Yamaha CLP 675: 97 cm
- Yamaha CLP 665: 93 cm
- Yamaha N1X: 100 cm

I find the figure for the NV10 very hard to believe. To my eye it is clearly the higher than the CA98 etc and roughly the same as the N1X.

I seem to remember the overall height of the N1X and NV10 is very close

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: percy64] #2832637
03/29/19 08:14 AM
03/29/19 08:14 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,181
Europe
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arc7urus Offline
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Originally Posted by percy64
Originally Posted by arc7urus


Ok, I understand that the music rest on an cabinet DP or on a grand stands higher than on an upright. The following are the height values I got from the specs:
- Kawai CA97: 92.5 cm
- Kawai CA98: 94.0 cm
- Kawai NV10: 92.5 cm

- Yamaha CLP 685: 102cm
- Yamaha CLP 675: 97 cm
- Yamaha CLP 665: 93 cm
- Yamaha N1X: 100 cm

I find the figure for the NV10 very hard to believe. To my eye it is clearly the higher than the CA98 etc and roughly the same as the N1X.

I seem to remember the overall height of the N1X and NV10 is very close

The specs may be wrong but those are the official numbers. And that is exactly why I am confused :-)

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]



Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: David B] #2832650
03/29/19 09:04 AM
03/29/19 09:04 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,424
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,424
Raleigh, North Carolina
Isn't the "bottom of the music rest" lower than the "top of the piano"?

It's maybe two inches lower on my CLP240. SEE HERE

It was about a foot lower on my Kawai upright. SEE HERE

So I think "top of the piano" is not a useful reference point, eh?

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: MacMacMac] #2832655
03/29/19 09:16 AM
03/29/19 09:16 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,181
Europe
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arc7urus Offline
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Europe
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Isn't the "bottom of the music rest" lower than the "top of the piano"?

It's maybe two inches lower on my CLP240. SEE HERE

It was about a foot lower on my Kawai upright. SEE HERE

So I think "top of the piano" is not a useful reference point, eh?

Depends on the instrument. If the music rest is placed like on an upright, i.e. on the fallboard, then you are right: the height of the instrument says nothing about the position of the rest.

But on all the instruments we were discussing (Kawai CA97, 98, NV10, Yamaha CLP 600, N1X) the music rest in not on the fallboard but mounted on the top of the DP. This means that the bottom of the music rest should at the same height as the top of the DP (plus maybe 1-2 cm). The same reasoning applies to the height of the rest on an acoustic grand. Check the next picture with a CA97, NV10, CLP675 and N1X.

[Linked Image]

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: David B] #2832670
03/29/19 10:06 AM
03/29/19 10:06 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,424
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
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Raleigh, North Carolina
High up is a good place for the music stand. Especially for taller people, like me. Especially for people with degenerating disks, like me.

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: arc7urus] #2832694
03/29/19 11:43 AM
03/29/19 11:43 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,258
Germany
JoBert Offline
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JoBert  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2015
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Germany
Originally Posted by arc7urus
Ok, I understand that the music rest on an cabinet DP or on a grand stands higher than on an upright. The following are the height values I got from the specs:
- Kawai CA97: 92.5 cm
- Kawai CA98: 94.0 cm
- Kawai NV10: 92.5 cm
...
So, could the NV10 and N1X owners measure the actual height of the music rest?

It's a mistake in the specs (a remnant from the CA97 specs?).

My NV10 is 97cm high, without the music rest.

The bottom of the music rest, i.e. that part that the book/tablet actually sits on, adds another 1-1.5cm (because it's slanted).

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: David B] #2832711
03/29/19 01:28 PM
03/29/19 01:28 PM
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Gombessa Offline
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You all talking about 2-3cm differences smile

Here's what I'm deailng with:

NV10: (about 9-10" high off the white keys, about 12" back from the front of the piano)
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

U3: (about 4" high off the white keys, about 6" back from the front of the piano)
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

That's a huge difference in terms of adjusting your focus and attention between score and keys/fingers.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: Gombessa] #2832752
03/29/19 02:56 PM
03/29/19 02:56 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,258
Germany
JoBert Offline
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JoBert  Offline
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Germany
Originally Posted by Gombessa
You all talking about 2-3cm differences smile

Hey, it's 4.5cm! wink

Originally Posted by Gombessa
That's a huge difference in terms of adjusting your focus and attention between score and keys/fingers.

~5.5in (~14cm), that is indeed more substantial (and probably closer to what CyberGene experiences, going from the NU1X to the N1X). For me, already the 4.5cm were an adjustment - I can't imagine 14cm. wink

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: MacMacMac] #2832768
03/29/19 03:47 PM
03/29/19 03:47 PM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 374
Cheshire, UK
Cheshire Chris Offline
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
High up is a good place for the music stand. Especially for taller people, like me. Especially for people with degenerating disks, like me.


Not if, like me, you wear varifocals, where the close-focus part of the lens is at the bottom. I'm fine on my stage piano where I'm looking down at the music, but on my piano teacher's Steinway I'm looking straight ahead at it, and it's really difficult to focus. It seems silly to have to get "piano glasses" for one lesson a week!


Chris

Yamaha P-515, Yamaha Reface CP.
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: Cheshire Chris] #2832779
03/29/19 04:16 PM
03/29/19 04:16 PM
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Posts: 276
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oneilt130 Offline

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Originally Posted by Cheshire Chris
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
High up is a good place for the music stand. Especially for taller people, like me. Especially for people with degenerating disks, like me.


Not if, like me, you wear varifocals, where the close-focus part of the lens is at the bottom. I'm fine on my stage piano where I'm looking down at the music, but on my piano teacher's Steinway I'm looking straight ahead at it, and it's really difficult to focus. It seems silly to have to get "piano glasses" for one lesson a week!

Since we have now devolved completely away from the piano aspect of the N1X and into various sight related topics I will throw in my two cents. I also have multifocal lenses for regular wear that are a bit of a pain when playing the piano. Fortunately I also have a pair of glasses just for working at the computer that are single focus for very near distance. These are great for playing the piano.

Now to circle this back around to the N1X it would be interesting if someone were to post recordings of the same music played with the CFX and the Bosendorfer to compare the two.


Yamaha NU1X
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: David B] #2832780
03/29/19 04:21 PM
03/29/19 04:21 PM
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Posts: 1,097
Kitsap County, WA
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Originally Posted by arc7urus

But on all the instruments we were discussing (Kawai CA97, 98, NV10, Yamaha CLP 600, N1X) the music rest in not on the fallboard but mounted on the top of the DP


On the CLP-685 the music rest is not on the top like the rest of the CLP series upright styles, it's actually built in to the fallboard so it's quite a bit lower than the other CLP's.

You can see how different it is here: https://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical_instruments/pianos/clavinova/index.html

It's that strip on the fallboard, and it folds down to make the rest.


๐’€๐’‚๐’Ž๐’‚๐’‰๐’‚ ๐‘จ๐’—๐’‚๐’๐’• ๐‘ฎ๐’“๐’‚๐’๐’… ๐‘ต1๐‘ฟ
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: oneilt130] #2832786
03/29/19 04:43 PM
03/29/19 04:43 PM
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Posts: 4,198
Sofia, Bulgaria
CyberGene Offline
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Originally Posted by oneilt130
Now to circle this back around to the N1X it would be interesting if someone were to post recordings of the same music played with the CFX and the Bosendorfer to compare the two.

I can do this, although Iโ€™ve already had a few glasses of wine... laugh


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: David B] #2832947
03/30/19 04:47 AM
03/30/19 04:47 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 6,913
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
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I just want to praise David B, CyberGene, Chrispy and all those with N1X's contributing to this thread. Yours are the only real independent (non-reseller/vendor/OEM) reviews of this piano around! Shockingly, Youtube still has no independent reviews of the N1X even two months after NAMM! Keep your comments up! smile

If one of you were to post an independent product review to Youtube, you would literally be the first shocked shocked


across the stone, deathless piano performances

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