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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
MacMacMac #2830556 03/23/19 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by jeffscot
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Frankly, I've never met any such audiophiles as you describe personally, although I can imagine them in theory - my wife is in the art business and works with art collectors - some art collectors spend millions on art which they store in special climate controlled warehouses and almost never look at themselves. The description of an audiophile who spends money on equipment and then doesn't use it because they don't appreciate music is a bit like this, and so if art collectors can do it, then why can't certain audiophiles?

Art collections can be used to hide money, with the added possibility of a decent return on investment.

Which is excellent point and even more points out how nonsensical collecting expensive equipment is if one isn't interested actually using/listening to it. I have I monoblock amplifiers I paid $20K for before I went to Russia 20 years ago. A member of this forum said some things to me in a PM that made me look up the street price of these used today. $8K for the pair today. Not a very good store of value even if it is audio file and they aren't old enough to be "retro" yet. So no, one can't buy expensive audio equipment to hide money or with any possibility of a decent return on investment. If one buys it anyways and doesn't actually use it or like music, well, that is ... interesting.

Originally Posted by MacMacMac
True, true.
Originally Posted by CyberGene
How come this thread became yet another silly headphone talk... It’s either Pianoteq (guilty myself) or headphones. Sigh... frown
This "was" an N1X thread. smile

And it can be again. wink


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across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
CyberGene #2830567 03/23/19 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Let’s wait for squidbot to confirm if he indeed can’t drive the 7506 loud enough even at max volume. If that’s the case, he needs an amp, although I would personally check other headphones first and even my hearing because as I said 7506 are very sensitive and it’s very doubtful the N1X can’t drive them to deafening levels.


So sorry, I didn't mean to derail the conversation smile So yes, my headphones work fine. They worked well with the CLP-685 and the volume seemed adequate and there was enough headroom I wasn't getting any muddiness or distortion.

The N1X is a different story and now I'm wondering based on David's feedback if there isn't an issue with the headphone amp on my unit. I have to put the volume knob almost max to get to a reasonable volume (whereas on the CLP-685 it was about 2/3 the available gain.) And even the reasonable volume it seems like the gain is high enough that I'm losing some of the dynamic quality, if I go any higher I get distortion. The headphones work well in every other situation I've had them in, listening to music on my phone, the computer, my ES-110.

So shame on my, I didn't try the headphones on the store unit so I don't know if there is a difference. I also have a couple of other pairs I can try to see what happens (AKG K545 and Sennheiser 598 Cs.) I'm at the Oakland airport right now waiting for my flight back to Seattle so it will be a bit before I can try smile


Now learning: Chopin C# minor Nocturne (posth), Mozart Sonata in C K. 545, R. Schumann Fantasy Dance, Joplin The Chrysanthemum
Instruments: Yamaha N1X, Kawai ES110, Roland GO:PIANO, Piano de Voyage
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
Chrispy #2830592 03/23/19 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by squidbot
[The N1X is a different story and now I'm wondering based on David's feedback if there isn't an issue with the headphone amp on my unit. I have to put the volume knob almost max to get to a reasonable volume (whereas on the CLP-685 it was about 2/3 the available gain.) And even the reasonable volume it seems like the gain is high enough that I'm losing some of the dynamic quality, if I go any higher I get distortion. The headphones work well in every other situation I've had them in, listening to music on my phone, the computer, my ES-110.

So shame on my, I didn't try the headphones on the store unit so I don't know if there is a difference. I also have a couple of other pairs I can try to see what happens (AKG K545 and Sennheiser 598 Cs.) I'm at the Oakland airport right now waiting for my flight back to Seattle so it will be a bit before I can try smile

It should take:
  • 0.071Vrms to drive your MDR-7506 to 95dB (OEM's published, nominal technical specs: 63Ω, 106 dBSPL @ 1 milliwatt)
  • 0.10Vrms to drive your HD598Cs to 95dB (OEM's published, nominal technical specs: 23Ω, 115 dBSPL @ 1Vrms)
  • 0.79Vrms to drive your K545 to 95dB (OEM's published, nominal technical specs: 32Ω, 97 dBSPL @ 1Vrms)

So of all of these, your MDR-7506s should sound the loudest on the N1X, followed by the HD598Cs, and with the K545 in last place.

To conduct a simple experiment, pre-record something on the N1X. Then play it back three times with the N1X volume control set to 70% each time, but with each of these three headphones.

If the MDR-7506 does not sound louder than the other two (and the HD598Cs should sound louder than the K545), then there is likely something wrong with your MDR-7506.

If all three sound loud as ranked in the above order with the MDR-7506 loudest and K545 softest on your pre-recorded piece, and all are unacceptably soft, then it's possibly something wrong with the headphone amp in your N1X and you should conduct more tests (for example, with another N1X) or you should contact Yamaha tech support.


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across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2830679 03/24/19 06:12 AM
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Bringing this back to the N1X I have a question for CyberGene. How does the Binaural CFX on the N1X compare to the same on the NU1X when playing with headphones?


Yamaha NU1X, Sennheiser HD 599 headphones, dabling with PianoTeq
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2830685 03/24/19 06:45 AM
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I agree with bringing it back to the N1X.

If your headphones are not being driven properly with the output from the N1X then pick up a great headphone amp for $99 bucks (Schiit Magna 3) and then get back to playing the piano. The headphone amp, with a couple of Home Depot mounting clips under the keybed would do the trick.

Don't make me pull out the next scientific video about how the Chrysler Turbo Encabulator outperforms all other brands of planar tension bolts. That video dates itself. They're using a differential girdle spring, which in modern times has been all but replaced by reciprocating crush bearings.


Nord Grand, Kawai MP11 (v1), iMac 2017, Yamaha HS8's, Sennheiser 650, Focusrite 2i4, Pianoteq 6.4.0, Steinway Model A, Mason and Hamlin Model AA, Piano Marvel: 3C
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
Peddler100 #2830687 03/24/19 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by oneilt130
Bringing this back to the N1X I have a question for CyberGene. How does the Binaural CFX on the N1X compare to the same on the NU1X when playing with headphones?

I think they are maybe the same. In my YouTube channel (see the signature) there are two videos from the NU1X and one from the N1X, all made with the binaural, so it can be compared.


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
CyberGene #2830706 03/24/19 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Originally Posted by oneilt130
Bringing this back to the N1X I have a question for CyberGene. How does the Binaural CFX on the N1X compare to the same on the NU1X when playing with headphones?

I think they are maybe the same. In my YouTube channel (see the signature) there are two videos from the NU1X and one from the N1X, all made with the binaural, so it can be compared.


Thanks. I agree they do sound the same. Of course now that I have watched your videos I realize that I can't blame they way I sound on the instrument anymore. frown


Yamaha NU1X, Sennheiser HD 599 headphones, dabling with PianoTeq
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
HwyStar #2830710 03/24/19 07:47 AM
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Thanks for bringing the Encabulator to my attention. I had never before heard of it. I'm now enlightened. Thanks. smile
Originally Posted by HwyStar
Don't make me pull out the next scientific video about how the Chrysler Turbo Encabulator ...

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2830713 03/24/19 07:56 AM
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I don't want to extend the headphone drift of this thread but surely the answer is to buy a pair of headphones that the N1X will drive easily rather than going to the fuss of a separate device wired in?

This is not an issue that will put me off buying the N1X - but it is a frustration in a high end device that here is something it does less well than my ancient Clavinova.

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2830730 03/24/19 08:41 AM
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I agree, Percy. Sometimes the easiest solution is elusive, eh? smile

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2830746 03/24/19 09:14 AM
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I agree wholeheartedly Percy! If this is the only issue with this hybrid, it can be solved without a lot of pain or money depending on your cans used.

I bet Yamaha reps are watching these pages and have taken note for the N2X. No, N1X2. Nope, that's not it. Gene: Help me out here! smile


Nord Grand, Kawai MP11 (v1), iMac 2017, Yamaha HS8's, Sennheiser 650, Focusrite 2i4, Pianoteq 6.4.0, Steinway Model A, Mason and Hamlin Model AA, Piano Marvel: 3C
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
percy64 #2830766 03/24/19 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by percy64
I don't want to extend the headphone drift of this thread but surely the answer is to buy a pair of headphones that the N1X will drive easily rather than going to the fuss of a separate device wired in?

This is not an issue that will put me off buying the N1X - but it is a frustration in a high end device that here is something it does less well than my ancient Clavinova.

But if we are referring to squidbot, it might not be an issue of there being something wrong with the MDR-7506s, but that that particular N1X is defective. So I'd agree that possibility should be eliminated first before just buying another pair of headphones. Besides, if that was the issue, squidbot has 2 other pairs of headphones already. Why buy a fourth?


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
HwyStar #2830773 03/24/19 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by HwyStar
I agree with bringing it back to the N1X.

If your headphones are not being driven properly with the output from the N1X then pick up a great headphone amp for $99 bucks (Schiit Magna 3) and then get back to playing the piano. The headphone amp, with a couple of Home Depot mounting clips under the keybed would do the trick.

The Schiit Magna 3 is a really great headphone amp that proves that audiophile gear can be dirt cheap contrary to the beliefs of some around here abouts. I don't have one but have read some great things about it. And any company that names itself after something you say after the word "good" when you are smoking something to make oneself high, is a good company in my book!

Originally Posted by HwyStar
Don't make me pull out the next scientific video about how the Chrysler Turbo Encabulator outperforms all other brands of planar tension bolts. That video dates itself. They're using a differential girdle spring, which in modern times has been all but replaced by reciprocating crush bearings.

Could this be yet another thiotimoline application?


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
HwyStar #2830780 03/24/19 11:29 AM
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I didn't know you could buy Schiit so cheap.
Originally Posted by HwyStar
... pick up a great headphone amp for $99 bucks (Schiit Magna 3)

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
MacMacMac #2830785 03/24/19 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I didn't know you could buy Schiit so cheap.
Originally Posted by HwyStar
... pick up a great headphone amp for $99 bucks (Schiit Magna 3)


...especially not audiophile Schiit.


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2830835 03/24/19 01:14 PM
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Good job, you guys thumb
At this rate we’ll beat the Novus (thread).
Don’t get me wrong, there’s still a lot of work ahead (2,626 posts and counting), but if we keep this Schiit up, we’ll get there!

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2830848 03/24/19 01:39 PM
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Goodness. You guys are giving analtech.com a run for its money (Oh, of course it's SFW. Go ahead, try it).


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
Pete14 #2830851 03/24/19 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Pete14
Good job, you guys thumb
At this rate we’ll beat the Novus (thread).
Don’t get me wrong, there’s still a lot of work ahead (2,626 posts and counting), but if we keep this Schiit up, we’ll get there!

No chance!
If this thread should come anywhere near the post count of the NV10 thread, I'll just post "Pianoteq does not really sound like a piano, samples are much better!" in the NV10 thread and its post count will skyrocket so fast, you'll only see the dust left behind!

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2830860 03/24/19 02:02 PM
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Well, considering about half of the NV10 thread has been about trying to fix problems, I'd say it would be far preferable to lose the post count competition...

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2830902 03/24/19 04:09 PM
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Now, back to boring stuff, I mean N1X... Playing it as much as I can this weekend. A lot through speakers and a lot through headphones.

I can very confidently state now the speaker system is not only better than NU1X, it's absolutely stunning! As I said previously though, the overall sound is rather soft and slightly muffled, as though coming from inside a real grand piano piano. To me that's exactly the way real grands sound and although it's not very often that I play real grand pianos, it's something that I've noticed. However other people might find the same effect not to their liking, especially if they prefer more direct sound. With the NU1X it was clean sound, bright and pure, it was like listening to perfectly chosen monitor speakers, nothing to complain. With the N1X though it's like listening to a grand piano wink But don't take my word for granted. I don't want to cause unnecessary GAS with a biased and "still honeymoon" opinion. But to me personally, I can't believe I am finally having my absolutely dream instrument, taking in mind all else. I mean, yeah, I'd like a Steinway but I don't have the money and the space. For my current situation this was the absolute maximum I could afford (in terms of budget and space) and without any doubt it's also the best piano for me.

A particular thing I like is the dynamic weight of the keys. While the static weight is probably the same as the NU1X, the dynamic weight is higher. Initially that caused a very slight pain in my forearms after the first two days, but not anymore. However I can do soft trills now with a precision I could never do on regular digital pianos before.

Last edited by CyberGene; 03/24/19 04:09 PM.

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Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
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