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Exercise books - Czerny etc. #2830177
03/22/19 09:56 PM
03/22/19 09:56 PM
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Moo :) Offline OP
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As it was mentioned on another thread I was looking into what Hanon exercises were.

I actually have gone throughout my life having never heard of Hanon exercises before but it doesnt sound like music.

What is the general opinion of these books.

I used to have this book when I was a child by Czerny - I have lost it - but it was a bit boring.



I used to sometimes find an interesting tune in them.

Just wanted to know opinions as to whether it is worth buying another Czerny type exercise book to play through.

If you have these books, are these like technical type exercises only to be done with a teacher ?

Or are they are not worth it at all and better to stick to pieces .

Thanks

x

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Re: Exercise books - Czerny etc. [Re: Moo :)] #2830178
03/22/19 09:58 PM
03/22/19 09:58 PM
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If you didnt know either, this is what they are,

Hanon exercises



x

Re: Exercise books - Czerny etc. [Re: Moo :)] #2830191
03/22/19 11:02 PM
03/22/19 11:02 PM
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My first teacher had me doing Hanons. I think they were to develop finger strength and independence as a supplement to Alfreds All in One. I still reference the scales section. Then we did some Czerny, they were ok but a little boring. At your level I think you’re better continuing with repertoire. The Czerny are snippets of phrases you’ll find in music but you are doing way more advanced pieces.


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Re: Exercise books - Czerny etc. [Re: Moo :)] #2830198
03/22/19 11:47 PM
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Ok cheers.

When I looked Czerny has some more advanced studies which sound really good though.



I was not sure if these sort of things need a teacher though.

My concern if I did them myself is I would just be practising a bad technique.

Maybe I could ask about it in a lesson but wanted some opinions from others if these exercises are a rabbit hole or a good suggestion.

Last edited by Moo :); 03/22/19 11:47 PM.
Re: Exercise books - Czerny etc. [Re: Moo :)] #2830199
03/22/19 11:48 PM
03/22/19 11:48 PM
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If one goes to 2:00 in this video one can see that Czerny is not always boring but I don't know what percent of his pieces are this clever and as much fun.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H24RdWDD6rs

Re: Exercise books - Czerny etc. [Re: Moo :)] #2830255
03/23/19 05:12 AM
03/23/19 05:12 AM
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Ireland
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I always think, Czerny is fine in small dosages wink (I have no experience of Hanon). So 10-15 minutes of Czerny to warm up can be great, but I tend to get bored with it after a while.


Sibylle


"Not a shred of evidence exists in favour of the idea that life is serious." -Brendan Gill
Re: Exercise books - Czerny etc. [Re: Moo :)] #2830301
03/23/19 08:34 AM
03/23/19 08:34 AM
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Hanon is a heated subject. There are people and teachers that just love it and others that hate it. The value of those has been discussed many times. Pretty sure my opinion would not add anything new to this topic.

Czerny has written a ton of exercices and studies, opus 261, 718, 599, 453, 139, 299, 399, 365, 777 ............... The list is long. You'll find them all in IMSLP. Obviously with such amount there are a lot of redundancies. His studies tend to be quite repetitive. But many of them are really good; it is just that it is not very usefull to do them all in a given book but to pick selected ones depending on which particular skill you want to train, and they cover pretty much anything you would want to study. The point to understand is that they are not really method books and I never found any of them to be sequential. So to pick the ones you need takes a pretty good knowledge.

Anyway, the choice of doing Hanon and/or some Czerny has to be part of an overall training plan. Some people never used Hanon but trained using other studies. There is a lot of materials out there and there is plenty of redundancies so it is a question of making choices based on a teaching method. I wont' give you any advice as I am not yout teacher. But for me the question is not to choose Hanon or Czerny or some other books but to have a development plan that is suited to your case. That's why students need (good) teachers to guide them .......

Re: Exercise books - Czerny etc. [Re: Moo :)] #2830327
03/23/19 09:53 AM
03/23/19 09:53 AM
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My teacher had to do Hanon in different keys as a child. It made her cry. I'm thankful she hasn't asked me to do the same.


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Re: Exercise books - Czerny etc. [Re: bSharp(C)yclist] #2830334
03/23/19 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by bSharp(C)yclist
My teacher had to do Hanon in different keys as a child. It made her cry. I'm thankful she hasn't asked me to do the same.


Lol!


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Re: Exercise books - Czerny etc. [Re: Moo :)] #2830358
03/23/19 10:53 AM
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Hanon and Czerny are good for children because they can't complain. For adults, it's a different story, teachers won't get my money if they want me to play boring Hanon exercise. grin



"The piano keys are black and white but they sound like a million colors in your mind.”
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Re: Exercise books - Czerny etc. [Re: Serge88] #2830381
03/23/19 11:31 AM
03/23/19 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Serge88
Hanon and Czerny are good for children because they can't complain. For adults, it's a different story, teachers won't get my money if they want me to play boring Hanon exercise. grin

Yep, it is different for adults. I had to ask in order to do some Czerny and Hanon wink

I've read some comments from more than one advanced pianist about Hanon being unmusical (this comment was not applied to Czerny, only Hanon). There was a recent thread on Hanon and Czerny where this and some other things were discussed.


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Re: Exercise books - Czerny etc. [Re: pianoloverus] #2830388
03/23/19 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
If one goes to 2:00 in this video one can see that Czerny is not always boring but I don't know what percent of his pieces are this clever and as much fun.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H24RdWDD6rs


What the pianist plays at the end is Czerny's Op. 822, No. 5, not No. 9 as indicated in the video.

Regards,


BruceD
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Re: Exercise books - Czerny etc. [Re: Moo :)] #2830389
03/23/19 11:50 AM
03/23/19 11:50 AM
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Doesn't any else find it interesting that you start off not being able to play something, either an exercise or a piece, and then after you practice it you can play it?


Learner
Re: Exercise books - Czerny etc. [Re: malkin] #2830395
03/23/19 11:57 AM
03/23/19 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by malkin
Doesn't any else find it interesting that you start off not being able to play something, either an exercise or a piece, and then after you practice it you can play it?

You mean in a metaphysical sense?


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Exercise books - Czerny etc. [Re: Moo :)] #2830400
03/23/19 12:17 PM
03/23/19 12:17 PM
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I actually have enjoyed Czerny quite a bit. I find it useful, and not boring at all.


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Re: Exercise books - Czerny etc. [Re: Moo :)] #2830404
03/23/19 12:20 PM
03/23/19 12:20 PM
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I had completed the Hannon book. I agree it is not exciting, it is for skill development. I am working on Czerny Thirty New Studies and Technics and his book 160 eight measure exercises. I do scales and repeat one scale for two weeks, which includes arpeggios, contrary motion, thirds, and double thirds, triads broken in 3 and 4 note form, dominant 7 chords, and dominant 7 arpeggios. The goal after 5 years of lessons is building speed. I truly see the benefit of skill development exercises and how that will eventually lead to better playing. He recently had me start using the book Jazz triads by Kenneth O'Gorman. Though it is written for treble clef we do both hands together in broken and solid form. These exercises have all the inversions, movement by whole-step, tritone, perfect 5th etc.............

Since I am paying for lessons, I am looking for skill development as a student. I believe if I develop the fundamental skills this will help me advance in my playing. I was working through the Schaum series, and finished the G book. Then we moved back to the earlier books to focus on not stopping, accurate counting, and building speed. On some of the very early books, he holds a folder over my hands so I do not look.

I think obtaining a decent level of playing involves a lot of instructional components based on the students needs. You don't know what you don't know, having a teacher for me has truly assisted my growth.


Deb
"A goal properly set is halfway reached." Zig Ziglar
Re: Exercise books - Czerny etc. [Re: DFSRN] #2830405
03/23/19 12:22 PM
03/23/19 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by DFSRN
I was working through the Schaum series, and finished the G book.

Deb, What books are you referring to here? Can you link it/them?


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Exercise books - Czerny etc. [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2830415
03/23/19 12:44 PM
03/23/19 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by malkin
Doesn't any else find it interesting that you start off not being able to play something, either an exercise or a piece, and then after you practice it you can play it?

You mean in a metaphysical sense?


It's not what I was thinking, but, yes, that too.

Schaum is one of the old faithful piano methods. Each book has a letter and a color.


Learner
Re: Exercise books - Czerny etc. [Re: malkin] #2830421
03/23/19 01:09 PM
03/23/19 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by malkin
Doesn't any else find it interesting that you start off not being able to play something, either an exercise or a piece, and then after you practice it you can play it?


That is why we practice, isn't it?

Regards,


BruceD
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Re: Exercise books - Czerny etc. [Re: BruceD] #2830422
03/23/19 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by BruceD
Originally Posted by malkin
Doesn't any else find it interesting that you start off not being able to play something, either an exercise or a piece, and then after you practice it you can play it?


That is why we practice, isn't it?

Regards,


Yes. And it is why I like practicing and why practice is not boring.


Learner
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