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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
arc7urus #2829873 03/22/19 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by arc7urus
I have this amp: https://www.schiit.com/products/magni-1 - it is not easy to get one in the EU as they are often out of stock (they are made in the USA).

It's nowhere to get at all.


Richwood RD-17C-CE | LaMancha Rubi CM-N | Yamaha P-515
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
arc7urus #2829896 03/22/19 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by arc7urus

Btw, have you tested already the Smart Pianist app with the N1X? I am curious about what can be controlled via app, since I cannot find such description on the manuals.


I have and I purchased the wireless adapter. I bought a demo version from Sweetwater for $75. I think the wireless adapter should come with the N1X for free. It's kind of silly I had to purchase it separately. My Yamaha dealer said some other Yamahas come with it free. Why not the N1X?

It controls everything plus more. For example, you can control individual note volumes which I don't believe is possible with just the N1X alone. You can customize the velocity curve settings rather than just the "soft, medium, and hard" the N1X offers. Also, adjusting things like reverb with a slider is much easier on the fly than than the combo button/key method of the N1X. You can record and edit wav files directly to your iPad. Everything is just simplified and enhanced using the app.

However, there is one thing it won't control and I can't figure out why it's missing. It won't control the overall "brightness" e.g., Normal, Bright 1, Bright 2, etc. That a has to be controlled via button/key combo which means you have to disconnect from the app in order to do that. When you're using the app, you cannot use the N1X controls and vice versa. I actually called Yamaha about it and they had no answer for me.

The USB Cable/lightening adapter option is much cheaper, but since I keep the USB to Host connected to my computer all the time, I didn't want the hassle of plugging and unplugging cables every time I use the app. I like the app, but I just don't feel good about having to spend extra money to get the full use out of the N1X. I just doesn't seem right after spending all that money on a premier product like the AdvantGrand.

God Bless,
David


Last edited by David B; 03/22/19 10:50 AM.

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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2829941 03/22/19 11:51 AM
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The "JDS Labs Atom" headphone amp measures well and is $99.

This guy worked at Microsoft and other shops as an audio engineer. He has some outrageous lab equipment and does some reviews of headphone amps for fun on his blog. He stated there is plenty of power for the HD850:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...of-new-jds-labs-atom-headphone-amp.5262/

The MassDrop "Massdrop THX AAA 789" is another option he liked if you have $349 burning a hole in your pocket

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ements-of-massdrop-thx-aaa-789-amp.5001/

Last edited by newer player; 03/22/19 11:55 AM.
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2829947 03/22/19 12:04 PM
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Just a correction. It looks like you can't customize individual velocity curves beyond the options available in the software. However, you can adjust individual note pitch and volume with he app.

God Bless,
David


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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
newer player #2829950 03/22/19 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by newer player
This guy worked at Microsoft and other shops as an audio engineer.

Amir Majidemehr was never an audio engineer except in his retirement vocation of audio testing as a hobby.


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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2829965 03/22/19 12:29 PM
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Seems strange to spend that much on a DP and then have to fork out extra for headphone amp, wireless adaptor etc. You would have thought that Yamaha would have sorted that themselves

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
arc7urus #2829971 03/22/19 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by arc7urus

Nevertheless, I wonder how many hybrid piano owners consider regulating the DP after the break-in period. And if they decide to do it, I wonder how many technicians are actually qualified to perform such a task.


That’s actually a great question and I’ve been wondering about that myself. I asked our local tech and she’s not comfortable doing it. I’m going to call the store and ask if they have anyone (alas will probably have to pay a travel premium.) What would generally be considered a reasonable break in period? 6 months?


Now learning: Chopin C# minor Nocturne (posth) and C minor Prelude (big chords), Mozart Sonata in C K. 545
Instruments: Yamaha N1X, Kawai ES110, Roland GO:PIANO
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2829977 03/22/19 12:41 PM
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I don’t have audiophile headphones (Sony MDR7506) but they are fine for my older ears. I do find the max volume to be a tad low though compared to the speakers. Not terrible but I wonder if I should think about a headphone amp. The headphone impedance is 63 ohms, would an amp be overkill?


Now learning: Chopin C# minor Nocturne (posth) and C minor Prelude (big chords), Mozart Sonata in C K. 545
Instruments: Yamaha N1X, Kawai ES110, Roland GO:PIANO
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
Chrispy #2829978 03/22/19 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by squidbot
The headphone impedance is 63 ohms, would an amp be overkill?

yes.


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across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2829984 03/22/19 12:57 PM
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Please explain this discussion regarding the need for a headphone amplifier. The NV10 specs. indicate there is one:

“Headphone Enhancements Discrete SpectraModule™ headphone amplifier”

I have to assume the N1x has one also.

Last edited by TomLC; 03/22/19 12:58 PM.


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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2829990 03/22/19 01:01 PM
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This is an audiophile talk and not strictly piano related. Audiophiles are people who often think you need to spend thousands for the sound to be good. IMHO it’s a myth one needs a headphone amp to change how headphones will sound. Unless an amp is not powerful enough to drive the headphones. But let’s not turn that into another audiophile flame smile


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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
ˆTomLCˆ #2829993 03/22/19 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by TomLC
Please explain this discussion regarding the need for a headphone amplifier. The NV10 specs. indicate there is one:

“Headphone Enhancements Discrete SpectraModule™ headphone amplifier”

I have to assume the N1x has one also.

The issue is one of gain and not whether there is already an amplifier or not. But if there is enough gain in the amplifier to drive a given pair of headphones to an adequate sound pressure level given the impedance and sensitivity of those particular headphones? The MDR7506 has a sensitivity of 106 dB/W/m and is 63Ω. There is no reason squidbot needs a higher gain amplifier to drive those to reasonable levels. (say 100 dB max).


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across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
CyberGene #2829996 03/22/19 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Unless an amp is not powerful enough to drive the headphones. But let’s not turn that into another audiophile flame smile

I believe the Squidbot was asking about whether the amp would be powerful enough to drive the headphones to a reasonable level, but his MDR7506 is sensitive enough and the 63Ω low enough that the N1X can drive the headphones to a completely unreasonable volume.

Originally Posted by CyberGene
Audiophiles are people who often think you need to spend thousands for the sound to be good. IMHO it’s a myth one needs a headphone amp to change how headphones will sound.

This is no more unreal then people thinking sampled pianos VSTs sound better than modeled piano VSTs because the sound is fuzzier in the sampled pianos, or people who prefer their pianos to have a detuned sound because the unisons are too pure. Recently, on the acoustic piano forum, there was a mini discussion about a certain acoustic having a "synthetic" (?!?!?!) sound. Audio preference is very individualistic and is indeed real.


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2829999 03/22/19 01:14 PM
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Quote
“Headphone Enhancements Discrete SpectraModule™ headphone amplifier”

I have to assume the N1x has one also.


Discrete SpectraModule is a trademark by Onkyo... I don’t expect to find this technology in the Yamaha AvantGrand.

Last edited by Frédéric L; 03/22/19 01:15 PM.

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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2830000 03/22/19 01:14 PM
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Yes, Tyrone, But why would you need another amplifier on the N1x? Even with 300ohm headphones.



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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
Frédéric L #2830001 03/22/19 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Frédéric L
Discrete SpectraModule is a trademark by Onkyo... I don’t expect to find this technology in the Yamaha AvantGrand.


No, but they have something similar. After all it is Yamaha.



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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
ˆTomLCˆ #2830003 03/22/19 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by TomLC
Please explain this discussion regarding the need for a headphone amplifier. The NV10 specs. indicate there is one:

“Headphone Enhancements Discrete SpectraModule™ headphone amplifier”

I have to assume the N1x has one also.

My own experience trying the N1X in store is that the headphone output is too low - using the same headphones I use regularly on the Clavinova. I had to turn the volume up full and still the sound was too quiet (not as loud as half volume through the speakers)

Maybe a different set of headphones would do better - but that is frustrating in a top-end product

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
Chrispy #2830004 03/22/19 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by squidbot
I don’t have audiophile headphones (Sony MDR7506) but they are fine for my older ears. I do find the max volume to be a tad low though compared to the speakers. Not terrible but I wonder if I should think about a headphone amp. The headphone impedance is 63 ohms, would an amp be overkill?

The main question is:

Can the N1X amp drive the MDR-7506 and is it loud enough with a linear enough frequency response?

This depends on two factors: output impedance of the (built-in) amp and efficiency of the headphones drivers.

There is a common misconception, that low impedance headphone drivers mean better efficiency and more volume. This is only correct for low (near zero ohm) output impedance sources, like smartphones and computers.

If you headphone amplifier has an higher output impedance (like 50 ohms), you can't you use low impedance headphones, because they will just distort (frequency response) and burn much of the amplification power with the amplifier circuit because of impedance mismatch: Just as with speakers, headphone driver impedance needs to be higher than output impedance. And if its output power isn't enough to drive low efficiency, high impedance headphones, you will get unsatisfying results with those as well.

So what are high output impedance headphone amplifiers good for then? They are cheap to make or in other words: garbage. When you pay peanuts, that's what you usually get.


Richwood RD-17C-CE | LaMancha Rubi CM-N | Yamaha P-515
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
newer player #2830007 03/22/19 01:19 PM
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This review is a whole lot of hooey ...On the Massdrop amp ... he can distinguish channel 1 at 122.903 dB SNR from channel 2 at 123.014 dB SNR? ?????
(a) Anything over 100 dB is beyond perception.
(b) Measuring that level of SNR requires a screen room ... and more. Does this guy have what it takes?
(c) Can he (or ANYBODY) take such measurements to 6 significant figures? NO!
I call hooey.

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
MacMacMac #2830012 03/22/19 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
This review is a whole lot of hooey ...On the Massdrop amp ... he can distinguish channel 1 at 122.903 dB SNR from channel 2 at 123.014 dB SNR? ?????
(a) Anything over 100 dB is beyond perception.
(b) Measuring that level of SNR requires a screen room ... and more. Does this guy have what it takes?
(c) Can he (or ANYBODY) take such measurements to 6 significant figures? NO!
I call hooey.

Amir Majidemehr may be worth $100M from his Microsoft days. He can get a screen room if he wants one.

He certainly has bought an amazing amount of test gear on top of spending hundreds of $K on high-end audio gear to test. Testing is now his post-retirement hobby. He has posted pictures of his basement test lab.


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
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