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Kawai CA98 #2829157
03/20/19 03:24 PM
03/20/19 03:24 PM
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Nordomus Offline OP
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I wish there would be subforum with pinned topics about all major digital pianos, but until then here I come with another topic.
This time it's Kawai CA98. As some of you know I've decided to go with Kawai this time around(my 5th digital piano in few years) and I got it today so I figured I'm gonna post my first and next impressions here as well as compare this piano to the other ones I've played. Here I go smile


Firmware update

Soon after I got piano I wanted to upgrade firmware because of lots of bugs it has fixed and here is first bad thing- update is VERY badly made. It forces user to copy 3 files separately and initialize update procedure 3 times, for 1 update(!), not only that, update itself takes over 1 hour total time. Just for comparison update on all Rolands always required only one action from user and it took few minutes tops. Don't get me wrong, this is small thing nevertheless because it doesn't influence usage itself but I figured it is worth mentioning, I don't recall anyone writing about this.

Sound

Still I was able to play for a few hours and I must say I'm not disapoited by the sound at all. I still like it more on new Rolands but Kawai has it's own character and pretty good resonances for a sampled piano engine. I looove some of the mid notes, nice and vibrant. Bass is really good and soundboard transmits vibrations to pedals and keyboard really nice, actually whole thing is so powerful my whole room is vibrating smile I think treble is worse, some notes loudness seem unbalanced(might be just me though). Sound is nice overall and this piano actually can "sing" at times and I think this is one of the most important things.

"Boxy sound"

I've played both CA78 and CA98 and I don't hear much difference there in terms of sound character. Honestly I don't hear this problem on either on them. Ok- classic default piano is a bit "boxy" but I'm like 80% sure it is just it's natural characteristic, a lot of acoustic pianos sound close to this. Clearer sound needs much more force to be used. It's close to Bechstein acoustic I've played last year. So again- for me there is no problem at this moment. It sounds ok.

Keyboard

Not much to say. I don't think there is anyone that dislikes this keyboard. One of the best keyboards in digital pianos right after true hybrids. But I've found something interesting, this keyboard is really mushy when pressing key to the end, might be even more than on Casio GP series where people were writing about this multiple times. So it's funny noone mentioned it about Kawai GF2.
Aaaanyway it doesn't really matter to me, keyboard is amazing and I can actually play trills a lot easier than on Rolands. And it is not just impression, I'm 100% sure of that since I've played the same music piece on Roland not so long ago. I was very surprised, didn't expect that at all since keyboard in Roland LX708 seemed really good in terms of mechanics.


Overall I think it is pretty good piano with great keyboard. I don't feel I'm gonna need some Pianoteqs or Garritans any time soon.
I have one problem with Kawai overall and that is that I still don't know if they work on improvements listed for example in this topic: http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2828513/1.html
I really hope they can deliver those "features" as they should be in basic firmware(IMHO). That would be big + for Kawai from me.

I think that's it for the first impressions. As usual feel free to ask me anything. I hope I gave you all a bit more info about those pianos.

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Re: Kawai CA98 [Re: Nordomus] #2829169
03/20/19 03:47 PM
03/20/19 03:47 PM
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Gombessa Offline
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Congrats on getting your CA98!

Originally Posted by Nordomus

Soon after I got piano I wanted to upgrade firmware because of lots of bugs it has fixed and here is first bad thing- update is VERY badly made. It forces user to copy 3 files separately and initialize update procedure 3 times, for 1 update(!), not only that, update itself takes over 1 hour total time. Just for comparison update on all Rolands always required only one action from user and it took few minutes tops. Don't get me wrong, this is small thing nevertheless because it doesn't influence usage itself but I figured it is worth mentioning, I don't recall anyone writing about this.


You only have to go through that crazy process if the UI needs to be updated. Most of the more recent firmware updates have been fast, single-file/single-action affairs. It's been discussed before smile

Originally Posted by Nordomus

But I've found something interesting, this keyboard is really mushy when pressing key to the end, might be even more than on Casio GP series where people were writing about this multiple times. So it's funny noone mentioned it about Kawai GF2.


This has also been discussed extensively as well. Yes, the Grand Feel/Grand Feel 2 action has a bit of a mushy stop, which is the only thing about it that I think is unlike an acoustic piano. But I think it's that stop that makes the GF2 the quietest DP action available.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Kawai CA98 [Re: Gombessa] #2829174
03/20/19 03:58 PM
03/20/19 03:58 PM
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Thanks, I think I've missed those posts then smile Yeah the action is pretty quiet.

Re: Kawai CA98 [Re: Nordomus] #2829260
03/20/19 09:28 PM
03/20/19 09:28 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,719
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
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Kawai James  Offline
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Hello Nordomus, thank you for sharing your thoughts on the CA98, and congrats on your new piano.

As Gombessa notes, the lengthy 2nd and 3rd stages of the software update are only necessary if the instrument is running older touchscreen software. Assuming that you piano was already running v1.0.2 of the touchscreen software (indicated at the bottom of the Settings menu) only the first step is necessary.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Kawai CA98 [Re: Kawai James] #2829328
03/21/19 03:24 AM
03/21/19 03:24 AM
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Nordomus Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Hello Nordomus, thank you for sharing your thoughts on the CA98, and congrats on your new piano.

As Gombessa notes, the lengthy 2nd and 3rd stages of the software update are only necessary if the instrument is running older touchscreen software. Assuming that you piano was already running v1.0.2 of the touchscreen software (indicated at the bottom of the Settings menu) only the first step is necessary.

Kind regards,
James
x

Thanks. Yeah I get that, although it still should be 1 automatic step for user and shorter update overall.

BTW One more thing in terms of comparisons- I consider GF2 keyboard to be on par with Casio GP keyboard, hard to chose the winner in this one, both are awesome.

Last edited by Nordomus; 03/21/19 03:29 AM.
Re: Kawai CA98 [Re: Nordomus] #2829330
03/21/19 03:32 AM
03/21/19 03:32 AM
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 8
Belgium
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Mauw Offline
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Hi all,

Let me quickly introduce myself. I'm an adult beginner, taking lessons for half a year now. I'm progressing quite slowly since I never had any music education. I started to learn to play the piano because I'm in love with its sound, and prefer simple pieces, like Erik Satie and Dirk Maassen, so that's more important to me than playing some crazy Rachmaninoff stuff.

Anyway, I'm at the end of my kawai CA48 renting period and need to buy a piano now. I would love to have an upright but my budget simple does not allow it right now and I need to be able to play silently, so a digital it is. I've got a deal at the place I'm renting the kawai and can buy the Kawai CA98, CLP 685 or Roland LX 706 for around 3000 euros. The Yamaha is already off the list because of the weird key action. I'm going back and forth between the Roland and the Kawai for a few weeks already, so this post by Nordomus is like a gift from heaven to me smile

What's most important to me is the sound; looks and action is ok for me on both piano's so that's a draw.
I'm in love with the resonant sound of a "real" piano, very apparent in for example this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXPlibmcUxU

Ideally I would like the piano that comes the closest in sound. My problem is that the Roland indeed has very lively resonances, but doesn't give me the warm, cozy feeling the Kawai does when playing lower notes. However I feel like the sound of the Kawai is something you get bored of quite quickly, like I already have now with the CA 48. Is there a way on the Roland to make the low notes "thicker" and more apparant? Is there a kind of equalizer? How are the bass notes compared to the Kawai?

I did test them a few times in the shop but the pianos are not located against the wall as they will be at my house. Thanks for helping me out with this struggle.

Best regards

Re: Kawai CA98 [Re: Mauw] #2829332
03/21/19 03:43 AM
03/21/19 03:43 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 7,940
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content

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Originally Posted by Mauw
Anyway, I'm at the end of my kawai CA48 renting period and need to buy a piano now. I would love to have an upright but my budget simple does not allow it right now and I need to be able to play silently, so a digital it is. I've got a deal at the place I'm renting the kawai and can buy the Kawai CA98, CLP 685 or Roland LX 706 for around 3000 euros. The Yamaha is already off the list because of the weird key action. I'm going back and forth between the Roland and the Kawai for a few weeks already, so this post by Nordomus is like a gift from heaven to me smile

Through an accident of fate (apparently, literally wink ) Nordomus has owned both LX708 and CA98 now. But Nordomus, can you say anything positive about the LX708 any longer after your recent experience, or are you totally burnt now on Roland?


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Kawai CA98 [Re: Nordomus] #2829345
03/21/19 04:32 AM
03/21/19 04:32 AM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 884
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Nordomus Offline OP
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I try to be objective here. Yeah I had terrible experiences with Rolands but sound on those pianos is the best of the best IMO.
Anyway I really liked bass sound a lot on Roland LX 708, it should be similar on LX706. There are some changes you can make to the sound(like character, briliance etc.) but if you don't like the core of it then I don't think you can tweak it enough to your taste.
BTW you say you got bored of CA48 sound but you know that on CA98 there is different sound engine? Might be not so boring in long term, I'm not sure yet.
Yamaha put me off by keyboard weight as well, otherwise I think I would went for it, CLP 685 is great piano.
So try and tweak LX706 but if you won't reach the sweet spot then the answer is suprisingly simple in your case, go for CA98.

BTW
Something funny for today- I have faulty key in my CA98 smile
https://youtu.be/RJ3xWFN0GrA
Sounds like loose rubber or something? No idea, already reported it so now I will see how fast Kawai is.

Re: Kawai CA98 [Re: Nordomus] #2829346
03/21/19 04:40 AM
03/21/19 04:40 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 7,940
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content

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Originally Posted by Nordomus
BTW
Something funny for today- I have faulty key in my CA98 smile
https://youtu.be/RJ3xWFN0GrA
Sounds like loose rubber or something? No idea, already reported it so now I will see how fast Kawai is.

Are you serious?!?!?! shocked eek I'm trying to determine who has had the worst string of luck on this digital forum - you or Markuska... It's a close race!

(BTW, have you ever heard the English expression: "watching a train wreck in slow motion"?)


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Kawai CA98 [Re: Nordomus] #2829347
03/21/19 04:44 AM
03/21/19 04:44 AM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 884
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Nordomus Offline OP
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I've literally laughed when I've discovered this problem, I'm on the verge of sanity laugh

Re: Kawai CA98 [Re: Nordomus] #2829348
03/21/19 04:47 AM
03/21/19 04:47 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 7,940
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content

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Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 7,940
Originally Posted by Nordomus
I've literally laughed when I've discovered this problem, I'm on the verge of sanity laugh

Both you and Markuska have had independent flaws on consecutive pianos. Although since he also had a shipping problem on top of this, I would say he is one point ahead of you still.

EDIT: Maybe not. Perhaps your massive delay in product replacement matches his shipping problem and therefore you two are tied at 3-3.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Kawai CA98 [Re: Nordomus] #2829350
03/21/19 04:54 AM
03/21/19 04:54 AM
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 8
Belgium
M
Mauw Offline
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Thanks for your reply and best of luck with the repairs! Another question on the bass then, does it pack a punch in a normal living room? I mean can you really feel the low notes, like you would with a real subwoofer? I couldn't really in the store because of the open space there. I'll go back to the store anyway on Saturday for another trial and then pick one laugh

Last edited by Mauw; 03/21/19 04:55 AM.
Re: Kawai CA98 [Re: Nordomus] #2829353
03/21/19 05:05 AM
03/21/19 05:05 AM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 248
Germany
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Markuska Offline
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Germany
Originally Posted by Nordomus


BTW
Something funny for today- I have faulty key in my CA98 smile
https://youtu.be/RJ3xWFN0GrA
Sounds like loose rubber or something? No idea, already reported it so now I will see how fast Kawai is.


I almost cried by reading this XD
But at least, regarding all I have read on this forums - Kawai Customer-Service seems to be amazing, so I hope it gets resolved very quickly smile

Last edited by Markuska; 03/21/19 05:05 AM.
Re: Kawai CA98 [Re: Markuska] #2829355
03/21/19 05:07 AM
03/21/19 05:07 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 7,940
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content

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Originally Posted by Markuska
I almost cried by reading this XD
But at least, regarding all I have read on this forums - Kawai Customer-Service seems to be amazing, so I hope it gets resolved very quickly smile

Yes, horror but hopefully the change from Roland to Kawai will make all the difference for Nordomus!

And you sir, have to do everything right to make sure your next piano, ES8 or CN37, is a keeper! smile


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Kawai CA98 [Re: Mauw] #2829358
03/21/19 05:15 AM
03/21/19 05:15 AM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 884
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Nordomus Offline OP
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Nordomus  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Mauw
Thanks for your reply and best of luck with the repairs! Another question on the bass then, does it pack a punch in a normal living room? I mean can you really feel the low notes, like you would with a real subwoofer?

More I'd say. Everything in the room vibrates. I think whole building vibrates laugh But seriously it gives very good sensation and all vibrations are coming to your body, pedals and keyboard. Unlike Roland LX708 where bass is amazing but vibrations are conveyed mostly in speaker direction(obviously)

Re: Kawai CA98 [Re: Nordomus] #2829364
03/21/19 05:44 AM
03/21/19 05:44 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
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Europe
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arc7urus Offline
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Originally Posted by Nordomus
I've literally laughed when I've discovered this problem, I'm on the verge of sanity laugh

Well, on my CA98 the mechanical noise produced by different keys is not the same across the keyboard and it is not far from what you have recorded. Some keys produce a damped/muffled noise, while several others produce a pronounced mechanical noise. I actually contacted Kawai about this soon after buying the CA98 and they said this was "normal". I disagreed but I did not manage to convince them to send over a technician. I have not pursued this matter further because it has no noticeable effect on the touch and I cannot normally hear it while playing.

Here is a (low quality) recording of that, alternating between a "muffled" and a "noisy" key.
https://soundcloud.com/ac-635715790/ca98-key-noise/s-vLxbD

Note that in order to produce this noise systematically I have to press the keys staccato or at a slight angle. It is difficult to produce it when pressing the keys deeper, like you are doing.

Re: Kawai CA98 [Re: arc7urus] #2829374
03/21/19 06:50 AM
03/21/19 06:50 AM
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Posts: 884
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Nordomus Offline OP
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Originally Posted by arc7urus

Note that in order to produce this noise systematically I have to press the keys staccato or at a slight angle. It is difficult to produce it when pressing the keys deeper, like you are doing.

I know this problem, I have no idea what is causing this though. It was present on Casio GP as well. Anyway Kawai should adjust it anyway IMO. I hope they will do it for me.

Re: Kawai CA98 [Re: Nordomus] #2829557
03/21/19 01:02 PM
03/21/19 01:02 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
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Nordomus Offline OP
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One thing about included manual. I think Kawai has best manual from all pianos I had so far. It contains soooo much information. I love that for example there is actual graph for touch characteristics showing how sound behaviour will change when changing this setting.

Re: Kawai CA98 [Re: Nordomus] #2829590
03/21/19 02:16 PM
03/21/19 02:16 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,295
Germany
JoBert Offline
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Originally Posted by Nordomus
One thing about included manual. I think Kawai has best manual from all pianos I had so far. It contains soooo much information. I love that for example there is actual graph for touch characteristics showing how sound behaviour will change when changing this setting.

James will be happy to hear that. IIRC, he writes those manuals (or is responsible for them, or something like that).
BTW, I totally agree. The manual is certainly complex, but so is the subject matter, and the manual deals with that complexity well, imo.

Re: Kawai CA98 [Re: Nordomus] #2829681
03/21/19 07:05 PM
03/21/19 07:05 PM
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Grandman Offline
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Usa
Originally Posted by Nordomus
I try to be objective here. Yeah I had terrible experiences with Rolands but sound on those pianos is the best of the best IMO.
Anyway I really liked bass sound a lot on Roland LX 708, it should be similar on LX706. There are some changes you can make to the sound(like character, briliance etc.) but if you don't like the core of it then I don't think you can tweak it enough to your taste.
BTW you say you got bored of CA48 sound but you know that on CA98 there is different sound engine? Might be not so boring in long term, I'm not sure yet.
Yamaha put me off by keyboard weight as well, otherwise I think I would went for it, CLP 685 is great piano.
So try and tweak LX706 but if you won't reach the sweet spot then the answer is suprisingly simple in your case, go for CA98.

BTW
Something funny for today- I have faulty key in my CA98 smile
https://youtu.be/RJ3xWFN0GrA
Sounds like loose rubber or something? No idea, already reported it so now I will see how fast Kawai is.

Hey, Nordomus, glad to hear your situation was handled to your satisfaction and that you are enjoying the Kawai. I'm sure the CA 98 will bring you much joy.

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