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Why not more love for the FP-90 ? #2828932
03/20/19 07:26 AM
03/20/19 07:26 AM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 9
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Cavokk Offline OP
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Cavokk  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 9
Hi all.

New user to the forum.

I needed a slab replacement for my old Roland A-90 to play piano on as my dad has made a “long time borrow” of it with no returning in the foreseeable future laugh

I very rarely buy anything without a thorough review of what is available on the market but my initial thought as I am only a casual player was to check out the FP30, P125, ES110, Korgs and the Casios and then use VST’s if the sounds were not satisfying.

Luckily I have stores nearby having most if not all popular producers available to test.

I was very disappointed with the feel of most of the actions compared to what I expected so I had to reevaluate and move up the quality ladder. I immediately fell in love with the Kawai MP11 action but the MP11 is simply too deep in depth to accommodate in my room so moved on to the MP7, ES8, FP60, FP90, P515,RD-2000, SV1, CP88 and the Nords. (Also tried Studiologic SL88)

From an action perspective I felt the RD2000 and FP90 to be superior to all the others in feel, playability and build quality. I seriously don’t get why anyone praises any of the plastic Kawai actions as they all felt sloppy and cheep - I did expect more from even the ES8.. ( note that If I had the space I would have ended up with an MP11 or VPC-1).

Anyway the point of the story is that I initially thought that I would get one of the cheap models and then pair with VST but actually after many many hours of playing and researching over several days I ended up buying the FP-90 as it’s PHA50 action to my hands was by far the best compared to all the other actions I played. NWX in the P515 was too heavy to my liking but also very good quality.

The main piano sound of the FP90 is special and I understand why some like it and others don’t. It’s ok for me for now as I will experiment with VST’s and Pianoteq anyway.

Only thing that I really dislike is the ambience function as it simply RUINS the sound of the FP90 pianos in headphones. In speakers it’s somewhat ok and gives sense of reverberation but I simply don’t understand why Roland did not put in a proper sounding reverb??? ( the RD-2000 works fine in this respect)

I was very close going with the RD2000 instead but my sense told me that I would regret as soon as the GAS settled as I really only was out for a nice hobby Piano to begin with - not a fully fledged stage piano for professionals smile

Just a side note: - the FP60 is just a tad cheaper than the FP90 but has the same cheap action as FP10/30 - I seriously cannot get why anyone would buy that.

All the best

C.

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Re: Why not more love for the FP-90 ? [Re: Cavokk] #2828936
03/20/19 07:45 AM
03/20/19 07:45 AM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 167
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nicknameTaken Offline
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Joined: Oct 2018
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For me, the Kawai MP11-SE felt sloppy. The Roland RD2000 / FP90 Series has this snappy 'rebounce' which I miss on the Kawai. The Yamaha P515 is similar in this regard.

What I don't get however, is the lack of Support by Roland (If you ever end up with problems, it seems harder than with Kawai). About the Yamaha: The Power Supply Unit is cheapened out. And you also can read about users who 'had' a P515, but the PSU was so bad that the whole instrument blew up after some time...

From the Support side and the Quality, Kawai may be better... However, it sometimes feels 'wobbly'.

Last edited by nicknameTaken; 03/20/19 07:47 AM.
Re: Why not more love for the FP-90 ? [Re: Cavokk] #2828945
03/20/19 08:27 AM
03/20/19 08:27 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,973
Dublin
johnstaf Online crying
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johnstaf  Online Crying
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I've said it many times before. I believe the Roland PHA-50 is the most realistic DP action in a slab. I love its liveliness and precision. It responds very much like a good grand action.

Re: Why not more love for the FP-90 ? [Re: nicknameTaken] #2828958
03/20/19 09:03 AM
03/20/19 09:03 AM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 515
UK
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jamiecw Offline
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Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 515
UK
Originally Posted by nicknameTaken
And you also can read about users who 'had' a P515, but the PSU was so bad that the whole instrument blew up after some time...


I missed that - where have you read/seen such reports about the PSU please?

Re: Why not more love for the FP-90 ? [Re: Cavokk] #2828968
03/20/19 09:19 AM
03/20/19 09:19 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,391
Cheshire, United Kingdom
Doug M. Offline
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Doug M.  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2014
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Cheshire, United Kingdom
Originally Posted by Cavokk
Hi all.

I was very disappointed with the feel of most of the actions compared to what I expected so I had to reevaluate and move up the quality ladder. I immediately fell in love with the Kawai MP11 action but the MP11 is simply too deep

From an action perspective I felt the RD2000 and FP90 to be superior to all the others in feel, playability and build quality. I seriously don’t get why anyone praises any of the plastic Kawai actions as they all felt sloppy and cheep - I did expect more from even the ES8.. ( note that If I had the space I would have ended up with an MP11 or VPC-1).

Anyway the point of the story is that I initially thought that I would get one of the cheap models and then pair with VST but actually after many many hours of playing and researching over several days I ended up buying the FP-90 as it’s PHA50 action to my hands was by far the best compared to all the other actions I played. NWX in the P515 was too heavy to my liking but also very good quality.

The main piano sound of the FP90 is special and I understand why some like it and others don’t. It’s ok for me for now as I will experiment with VST’s and Pianoteq anyway.

Only thing that I really dislike is the ambience function as it simply RUINS the sound of the FP90 pianos in headphones. In speakers it’s somewhat ok and gives sense of reverberation but I simply don’t understand why Roland did not put in a proper sounding reverb??? ( the RD-2000 works fine in this respect)



Hi Cavokk,

The VPC1 is 42 cm deep and the FP90 is 39 cm deep: are you saying your room can't accommodate the 3 cm extra in depth and 4 cm extra in length?

Personally, the sound of the FP90 isn't impressive with that meagre 60 W (2x 25, plus 2x5). The only Roland model that I felt sounded great with that particular iteration of the modelled Roland piano was the LX17 with its 8 monitor setup. Possibly the addition of a pair of decent monitors would help the FP90 sound much better, but then that would take it past the cost of the RD2000.
Certainly the RD2000 will hold it's cost slightly better because it does more and would be useful to the gigging market (used) as well as those who are looking for one for their house. When you include the stand, Monitors etc, the RD2000 is a lot more expensive. You're talking about £500-£1000 for decent powered monitors and £200 for the stand.

Do you need the extra functionality that the RD2000 would provide? If so, it maybe worth it.

Regarding the plastic actions: I have always stated in my answers that the PHA-50 action is just below the Grand Feel action in quality.

Here is my subjective estimation of the best actions in order of my preference...

1) Hybrid actions (Novus, Avant Grand)
2) Grand Feel II
3) Grand Feel I (close to 2)
4) RM3 Grand II
5) PHA50 (close to 4)
6) RMIII (close to 5) & NWX (faster action, good for trills)
7) PHAIV & RMII
8) NW-GH (on CP4 - quite fast action) & PHAIII

Probably in there somewhere would be the Casio hybrid action (which I've not tried).

IMO, the quality gap between the hybrid actions and all the digital actions is so great as to make all the digital actions listed to be more or less equivalent to one another (one would simply need to adapt to the minor differences in action). In other words, the difference in quality between 2 to 8 is much smaller than between 1 and 2.

Don't know what I'd do in your situation between RD2000 and FP90. I play with headphones more or less all the time. I only amplify when out with a group. Maybe that is the deciding factor for you, maybe cost comes into play?

Kind regards,

Doug.

Last edited by Doug M.; 03/20/19 09:25 AM.

Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7; Past - Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: Why not more love for the FP-90 ? [Re: jamiecw] #2828969
03/20/19 09:23 AM
03/20/19 09:23 AM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 167
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nicknameTaken Offline
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nicknameTaken  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 167
Originally Posted by jamiecw
Originally Posted by nicknameTaken
And you also can read about users who 'had' a P515, but the PSU was so bad that the whole instrument blew up after some time...


I missed that - where have you read/seen such reports about the PSU please?

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2823536/p-515-locked-up-completely.html

Re: Why not more love for the FP-90 ? [Re: Cavokk] #2828970
03/20/19 09:26 AM
03/20/19 09:26 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,835
Europe
JoeT Offline
1000 Post Club Member
JoeT  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,835
Europe
Quote
Why not more love for the FP-90 ?

1. It's expensive in Europe (the most expensive one of the mid-range slabs, especially with furniture stand).
2. Its tone has taken a somewhat "experimental" route.
3. VST users are a vocal minority. Most people play built-in sounds.
4. Action preference is individual, but differences between models in the same price bracket aren't as big as emphasized on forums.

So for me the FP-90 is a rather expensive slab, which sounds weird. It's offering features I don't need as an amateur pianist (like microphone input with vocal processing), while it's missing others (like USB audio). So it's not my cup of tea. The end. wink


Yamaha P-515 | Kawai ES100 | Steinberg UR22 | Sony MDR-7506
Re: Why not more love for the FP-90 ? [Re: nicknameTaken] #2828972
03/20/19 09:31 AM
03/20/19 09:31 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,391
Cheshire, United Kingdom
Doug M. Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Doug M.  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,391
Cheshire, United Kingdom
Originally Posted by nicknameTaken
Originally Posted by jamiecw
Originally Posted by nicknameTaken
And you also can read about users who 'had' a P515, but the PSU was so bad that the whole instrument blew up after some time...


I missed that - where have you read/seen such reports about the PSU please?

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2823536/p-515-locked-up-completely.html


Hi guys,

I have read a few posts about the P515; however, you should not right it off---there isn't that many users complaining, and there were also lots of posts about the Kawai ES8 when it came out, and those affected users were a minority also.. Most of the large manufacturers release firmware updates that solve early bugs, and the P515 has only been available for a short while.. At least it is worth testing out to see if you like it. I prefer to try all the competitors before buying, that way, other people's personal bias doesn't weight to heavily over ones own.

Kind regards,

Doug.

Last edited by Doug M.; 03/20/19 09:33 AM.

Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7; Past - Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: Why not more love for the FP-90 ? [Re: Doug M.] #2828976
03/20/19 09:38 AM
03/20/19 09:38 AM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 167
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nicknameTaken Offline
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nicknameTaken  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 167
Originally Posted by Doug M.


Here is my subjective estimation of the best actions in order of my preference...

1) Hybrid actions (Novus, Avant Grand)
2) Grand Feel II
3) Grand Feel I (close to 2)
4) RM3 Grand II
5) PHA50 (close to 4)
6) RMIII (close to 5) & NWX (faster action, good for trills)
7) PHAIV & RMII
8) NW-GH (on CP4 - quite fast action) & PHAIII

Kind regards,

Doug.


Weird. I didn't like the action of the Avant Grand nor the Action of the other higher priced ones.
For some reason, I did put the FP90/RD2000 and the Yamaha P515 action over everything else. I did not like that the Avant Grand and the Novus felt 'delayed'.
The salesman said, that is because they require a different technique. They felt too heavy for me, I couldn't do what I did on the other pianos. Especially lacking 'strength' in the pinky.
I didn't want to gather more strength in the pinky, because if pressing keys is harder on one piano than the other, that does imply it would be more straining.

Re: Why not more love for the FP-90 ? [Re: Doug M.] #2828994
03/20/19 10:28 AM
03/20/19 10:28 AM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 9
C
Cavokk Offline OP
Junior Member
Cavokk  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 9
Originally Posted by Doug M.


Hi Cavokk,

The VPC1 is 42 cm deep and the FP90 is 39 cm deep: are you saying your room can't accommodate the 3 cm extra in depth and 4 cm extra in length?

Don't know what I'd do in your situation between RD2000 and FP90. I play with headphones more or less all the time. I only amplify when out with a group. Maybe that is the deciding factor for you, maybe cost comes into play?

Kind regards,

Doug.


Hi Doug - thanks for chipping in - and yes I understand the question on if 3 cm actually matters - if you see my man-cave you will see why - basically in 2Mx3M footprint (yes 2m x 3m) I have a fully build out Roland TD50 KV drum set maxed out with additional toms and cymbals, - 2.5KW PA system with 15" Subwoofer and 12" tops, FP90 Piano, 12 channel Mixer, E-bass and E-guitar with separate foot-pedals. In addition to that a 1.3M wide desk that I use for working at home plus several computers used for work, VSTs, gaming etc... shocked

If the piano is deeper than the FP90 it would protrude too much in the room.. If I was very serious with playing the Piano I would be able to accommodate the VPC-1 but drumming is my main franchise and the FP90 fits just barely without the note holder( it protrudes more in the back) laugh

On your second question - I mostly play on headphones as well and I could easily have done with a slab without speakers like the RD-2000 (The PA system only get used rarely) The RD2000 is even slimmer than the FP90 due to the connectors being recessed in the back and general smaler footprint in depth. The FP90 is just short of 1000,- USD cheaper than the RD2000 where I live so in the end sense prevailed and as a side effect I have a very nice Bluetooth Audio Speaker in the FP90 and the same PHA50 action which besides size was my main parameter in the end smile

Cheers

C.

Re: Why not more love for the FP-90 ? [Re: nicknameTaken] #2829054
03/20/19 12:42 PM
03/20/19 12:42 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,391
Cheshire, United Kingdom
Doug M. Offline
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Doug M.  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,391
Cheshire, United Kingdom
Originally Posted by nicknameTaken
Originally Posted by Doug M.


Here is my subjective estimation of the best actions in order of my preference...

1) Hybrid actions (Novus, Avant Grand)
2) Grand Feel II
3) Grand Feel I (close to 2)
4) RM3 Grand II
5) PHA50 (close to 4)
6) RMIII (close to 5) & NWX (faster action, good for trills)
7) PHAIV & RMII
8) NW-GH (on CP4 - quite fast action) & PHAIII

Kind regards,

Doug.


Weird. I didn't like the action of the Avant Grand nor the Action of the other higher priced ones.
For some reason, I did put the FP90/RD2000 and the Yamaha P515 action over everything else. I did not like that the Avant Grand and the Novus felt 'delayed'.
The salesman said, that is because they require a different technique. They felt too heavy for me, I couldn't do what I did on the other pianos. Especially lacking 'strength' in the pinky.
I didn't want to gather more strength in the pinky, because if pressing keys is harder on one piano than the other, that does imply it would be more straining.



Hi nicknameTaken,

Yes, I can appreciate that. My comparison was via cross check against some acoustic grands and baby grands in the stores I was testing the digitals in, and I find myself having to alter my technique (adapt) to different actions.
I also like playing the PHA50 action for instance, but the Avant Grand action feels more like an acoustic. Whether that is better is a subjective matter.
TBH, if you can express yourself dynamically on the PHA50 keybed to your satisfaction, what does it matter. Many people who don't play acoustics have little desire to transition to an acoustic.


Kind regards,

Doug.


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7; Past - Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: Why not more love for the FP-90 ? [Re: Cavokk] #2829055
03/20/19 12:44 PM
03/20/19 12:44 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,391
Cheshire, United Kingdom
Doug M. Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Doug M.  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,391
Cheshire, United Kingdom
Originally Posted by Cavokk
Originally Posted by Doug M.


Hi Cavokk,

The VPC1 is 42 cm deep and the FP90 is 39 cm deep: are you saying your room can't accommodate the 3 cm extra in depth and 4 cm extra in length?

Don't know what I'd do in your situation between RD2000 and FP90. I play with headphones more or less all the time. I only amplify when out with a group. Maybe that is the deciding factor for you, maybe cost comes into play?

Kind regards,

Doug.


Hi Doug - thanks for chipping in - and yes I understand the question on if 3 cm actually matters - if you see my man-cave you will see why - basically in 2Mx3M footprint (yes 2m x 3m) I have a fully build out Roland TD50 KV drum set maxed out with additional toms and cymbals, - 2.5KW PA system with 15" Subwoofer and 12" tops, FP90 Piano, 12 channel Mixer, E-bass and E-guitar with separate foot-pedals. In addition to that a 1.3M wide desk that I use for working at home plus several computers used for work, VSTs, gaming etc... shocked

If the piano is deeper than the FP90 it would protrude too much in the room.. If I was very serious with playing the Piano I would be able to accommodate the VPC-1 but drumming is my main franchise and the FP90 fits just barely without the note holder( it protrudes more in the back) laugh

On your second question - I mostly play on headphones as well and I could easily have done with a slab without speakers like the RD-2000 (The PA system only get used rarely) The RD2000 is even slimmer than the FP90 due to the connectors being recessed in the back and general smaler footprint in depth. The FP90 is just short of 1000,- USD cheaper than the RD2000 where I live so in the end sense prevailed and as a side effect I have a very nice Bluetooth Audio Speaker in the FP90 and the same PHA50 action which besides size was my main parameter in the end smile

Cheers

C.





Hi Cavokk,

Congratulations on your purchase. I wonder if a different set of headphones would succeed in alleviating the annoying ambiance artifact you've heard?

Kind regards,

Doug.


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7; Past - Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: Why not more love for the FP-90 ? [Re: Cavokk] #2829211
03/20/19 07:07 PM
03/20/19 07:07 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,164
Sydney, Australia
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sullivang Offline
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Sydney, Australia
The reason I had initially chosen the FP60 over the cheaper ones is simple - it supports the RPU-3 pedal unit. However I exchanged it for a P-515 after one day, because I could not hang with the action. The reason I didn't go for the FP90 is because I don't like it's modelled acoustic pianos.

I like the P-515 action and in no way find it too heavy.

Greg

Re: Why not more love for the FP-90 ? [Re: sullivang] #2829233
03/20/19 08:12 PM
03/20/19 08:12 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 167
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nicknameTaken Offline
Full Member
nicknameTaken  Offline
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Posts: 167
Originally Posted by sullivang
The reason I had initially chosen the FP60 over the cheaper ones is simple - it supports the RPU-3 pedal unit. However I exchanged it for a P-515 after one day, because I could not hang with the action. The reason I didn't go for the FP90 is because I don't like it's modelled acoustic pianos.

I like the P-515 action and in no way find it too heavy.

Greg


I also like the P-515. However, I think Yamaha doesn't produce in Germany, like Roland does. Which means... It could be more complicated to repair a Yamaha digital piano than a Roland.
Are my assumptions correct on this? Further, I suspect some of the components of the P-515 are cheapened out. I can't tell how bad it is, though.
I'm still thinking about buying the P-515 or the FP90. You are right, both are great instruments and the FP90 has a weird standard voice.
I would use a VST, either way. Pianoteq or Ravenscroft.

Re: Why not more love for the FP-90 ? [Re: nicknameTaken] #2829235
03/20/19 08:36 PM
03/20/19 08:36 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 8,914
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
8000 Post Club Member
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Joined: Sep 2009
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Raleigh, North Carolina
I don't know whether this is true or not ...
Originally Posted by nicknameTaken
I think Yamaha doesn't produce in Germany, like Roland does.

But it doesn't matter because this is false ...
Originally Posted by nicknameTaken
It could be more complicated to repair a Yamaha digital piano than a Roland.

I don't see why there would be any shortage of repair tech talent in Germany (or elsewhere in the EU).
And there are regulations about making repair parts available.
I don't see a problem.

Re: Why not more love for the FP-90 ? [Re: Doug M.] #2829248
03/20/19 09:21 PM
03/20/19 09:21 PM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 141
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tudor33sud Offline
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Originally Posted by Doug M.
Originally Posted by Cavokk
Originally Posted by Doug M.


Hi Cavokk,

The VPC1 is 42 cm deep and the FP90 is 39 cm deep: are you saying your room can't accommodate the 3 cm extra in depth and 4 cm extra in length?

Don't know what I'd do in your situation between RD2000 and FP90. I play with headphones more or less all the time. I only amplify when out with a group. Maybe that is the deciding factor for you, maybe cost comes into play?

Kind regards,

Doug.


Hi Doug - thanks for chipping in - and yes I understand the question on if 3 cm actually matters - if you see my man-cave you will see why - basically in 2Mx3M footprint (yes 2m x 3m) I have a fully build out Roland TD50 KV drum set maxed out with additional toms and cymbals, - 2.5KW PA system with 15" Subwoofer and 12" tops, FP90 Piano, 12 channel Mixer, E-bass and E-guitar with separate foot-pedals. In addition to that a 1.3M wide desk that I use for working at home plus several computers used for work, VSTs, gaming etc... shocked

If the piano is deeper than the FP90 it would protrude too much in the room.. If I was very serious with playing the Piano I would be able to accommodate the VPC-1 but drumming is my main franchise and the FP90 fits just barely without the note holder( it protrudes more in the back) laugh

On your second question - I mostly play on headphones as well and I could easily have done with a slab without speakers like the RD-2000 (The PA system only get used rarely) The RD2000 is even slimmer than the FP90 due to the connectors being recessed in the back and general smaler footprint in depth. The FP90 is just short of 1000,- USD cheaper than the RD2000 where I live so in the end sense prevailed and as a side effect I have a very nice Bluetooth Audio Speaker in the FP90 and the same PHA50 action which besides size was my main parameter in the end smile

Cheers

C.





Hi Cavokk,

Congratulations on your purchase. I wonder if a different set of headphones would succeed in alleviating the annoying ambiance artifact you've heard?

Kind regards,

Doug.

I had the same problem on my HP605 which I assume uses the same engine for headphones as the FP90. The thing is that ambience is behaving one way through speakers, however, I remember playing the concert grand on a maximum of 2 ambience depth maximum 3. More than that sounded atrocious, and you couldn't distinguish the speaker sound.

In this case Cavokk, I suggest to make sure when you play by headphones to have a maximum ambience of 2 or 3, because somehow the ambience interferes with the 3d audio on headphones alghorithm. You can test it out, I remember when I had the HP605 you would hear the actual output ambience depth only if you plug in headphones, go to ambience, and switch over with the right arrow until you reach 3d ambience and set it to off. You will see that on stereo output, ambience behaves correctly and you could increase it more.

I guess it's a trade off here in terms of having 3d ambience, you already have a nice ambience with a default level of 2 ( you already feel like you re in a concert hall ). More than that, as you mentioned, makes the sound really awkward. I hope this will help you.


www.youtube.com/channel/UC073i6RnxK4NcnoFp1jYh7Q The place where I ocasionally post my amateur recordings smile
Criticism is welcomed since it helps improving and going forward.

Yamaha P-105 -> Roland HP-605 -> Roland LX708
Re: Why not more love for the FP-90 ? [Re: Cavokk] #2829252
03/20/19 09:39 PM
03/20/19 09:39 PM
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Posts: 233
PA
I really love the expressive control of my FP-90. I agree an external reverb definitely is a big improvement on its sound compared to using the built in ambience, if you're going to use the built in sounds.

Since I always use VSTs, I get thrown off by the near zero latency of using the internal sounds, so even with some improvements due to the right speakers and reverb I still rarely use them, lol.


Roland FP-90 - Touchkeys - TEC BC - MIDI Expression
Kontakt - Arturia Piano V - Sonivox Eighty-Eight - Spitfire Symphony Orchestra

whitepianos.blogspot.com
Re: Why not more love for the FP-90 ? [Re: nicknameTaken] #2829321
03/21/19 03:58 AM
03/21/19 03:58 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,181
Europe
A
arc7urus Offline
1000 Post Club Member
arc7urus  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
A

Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,181
Europe
Originally Posted by nicknameTaken
Originally Posted by Doug M.


Here is my subjective estimation of the best actions in order of my preference...

1) Hybrid actions (Novus, Avant Grand)
2) Grand Feel II
3) Grand Feel I (close to 2)
4) RM3 Grand II
5) PHA50 (close to 4)
6) RMIII (close to 5) & NWX (faster action, good for trills)
7) PHAIV & RMII
8) NW-GH (on CP4 - quite fast action) & PHAIII

Kind regards,

Doug.


Weird. I didn't like the action of the Avant Grand nor the Action of the other higher priced ones.
For some reason, I did put the FP90/RD2000 and the Yamaha P515 action over everything else. I did not like that the Avant Grand and the Novus felt 'delayed'.
The salesman said, that is because they require a different technique. They felt too heavy for me, I couldn't do what I did on the other pianos. Especially lacking 'strength' in the pinky.
I didn't want to gather more strength in the pinky, because if pressing keys is harder on one piano than the other, that does imply it would be more straining.

The Roland A-90 uses the PA-4 action which is available for at least 22 years. I would not be surprised if this action feels more like a synth action than a hammer action. Anyway, if you use as a benchmark a synths action, which is characterized by a very fast return and light touch, then the action of a real acoustic grand piano could indeed be described as "delayed", "heavy" and even "non-linear". But all of these features are a consequence of how the percussive hammer action on grand pianos works. So, if you want a keyboard that you can play with the same technique/touch you would use on a synth (which is not exactly the same used on an acoustic piano), shouldn't you be looking instead for a semi-weighted or synth-action keyboard instead of digital piano with hammer action?

Re: Why not more love for the FP-90 ? [Re: MacMacMac] #2829322
03/21/19 04:05 AM
03/21/19 04:05 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,391
Cheshire, United Kingdom
Doug M. Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Doug M.  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,391
Cheshire, United Kingdom
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I don't know whether this is true or not ...
Originally Posted by nicknameTaken
I think Yamaha doesn't produce in Germany, like Roland does.

But it doesn't matter because this is false ...
Originally Posted by nicknameTaken
It could be more complicated to repair a Yamaha digital piano than a Roland.

I don't see why there would be any shortage of repair tech talent in Germany (or elsewhere in the EU).
And there are regulations about making repair parts available.
I don't see a problem.


Hi Mac/nicknameTaken,

I rang Yamaha Kimble UK (uk headqtrs) last year to ask them for a part for my PSR7000 and they told me: "it will be 2 weeks as we have to have it sent from Germany".
They told me all Yamaha spares are in Germany now, so I would be surprised a lot if they don't sell Yamaha in Germany.

Kind regards,

Doug.


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7; Past - Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: Why not more love for the FP-90 ? [Re: Cavokk] #2829331
03/21/19 04:39 AM
03/21/19 04:39 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,370
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Kawai James  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,370
Hamamatsu, Japan
Doug,

Yes, I believe Yamaha Europe is based in Germany, so I expect this is where all spare parts (for European dealers) are shipped from.

Originally Posted by nicknameTaken
I think Yamaha doesn't produce in Germany, like Roland does.


Neither company produces digital pianos in Germany.
Roland's European production facility (based in Italy) closed in 2014, with some of the R&D staff regrouping to form Dexibell.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
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