2022 our 25th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Who's Online Now
70 members (Carey, Bellyman, AlkansBookcase, accordeur, akse0435, Barry_Braksick, BadSanta, danbot3, 13 invisible), 1,830 guests, and 303 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 3 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 537
J
jamiecw Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
OP Offline
500 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 537
Originally Posted by thickfingers
Have you taken the time to sit and directly compare your final curve to the PTQ default (flat) one, A/B? If so, how does your improvement compare?


Yes - to me and my playing technique, it seems a little more tame on the p & mp range and easier to get to f & ff without having to overthink it...it does not work for all models though...some of the warmer ones like the Bluthner and Grotrian for example...

Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,824
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,824
Originally Posted by jamiecw
Hi all,

TGIF! So, I have now been using PTQ since the summer last year and I think I found a good velocity curve and would like to share it with anyone (if they like it) or willing to try out and give back any feedback (good or bad, specifically bad as things might be improved). It's not new per se, as in I took the initial calibration setting from the PTQ velocity forum and kept chiselling away till it sounded good to my ears.

Here it is:

Velocity = [0, 10, 20, 31, 42, 52, 62, 70, 79, 88, 96, 104, 112, 120; 0, 5, 11, 20, 30, 42, 55, 66, 77, 90, 102, 113, 122, 127]

(it should like like a less curved, slanted S shape)

I am using this on an SL88 Grand (set to medium velocity) & seems to me that I can control quite a good range of the dynamics without having to bust a gut...any takers/volunteers for feedback would be most appreciated.

Thank you.

Jamie

EDIT: TIP: you can copy/paste the above into the velocity window inside PTQ so no need to manually insert.

You never mentioned what DP this is for. Velocity curves will vary by DP. For example, imagine a DP which cannot generate a 127 at all.

BTW, just for reference in this thread, this is the Pianoteq velocity curve for an NV10 created by computerpro3.


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,268
7000 Post Club Member
Offline
7000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,268
He mentioned it's for a SL88 Grand, which is a Studiologic (Fatar brand).


I'm not around. You can find me here
My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Yamaha N1X, Cybrid DIY hybrid controller
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 537
J
jamiecw Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
OP Offline
500 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 537
Originally Posted by CyberGene
He mentioned it's for a SL88 Grand, which is a Studiologic (Fatar brand).


Someone is paying attention...
wink

Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 614
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 614
Originally Posted by jamiecw
Hi all...found a good velocity curve and would like to share it with anyone (if they like it)

who also use the SL88 Grand.

You left that bit out, J. Can perhaps forgive Sloth for not noticing, and thinking you may not be aware PTQ curves are DP specific.

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 512
A
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
A
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 512
I'm not sure if someone mentioned it here, but minimizing Pianoteq window significantly improves performance on slow laptop.


Ars non habet osorem nisi ignorantem
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,181
A
arc Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
A
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,181
Originally Posted by AlphaBravoCharlie
I'm not sure if someone mentioned it here, but minimizing Pianoteq window significantly improves performance on slow laptop.

I seriously doubt that minimizing PT would improve its performance as the amount of graphics processing is neglible when compared to the remaining processing. Moreover, this could be tested

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 512
A
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
A
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 512
Originally Posted by arc7urus
Originally Posted by AlphaBravoCharlie
I'm not sure if someone mentioned it here, but minimizing Pianoteq window significantly improves performance on slow laptop.

I seriously doubt that minimizing PT would improve its performance as the amount of graphics processing is neglible when compared to the remaining processing. Moreover, this could be tested


I also didn't believe when I read it, but then I tested it. Max poliphony I can reach without having artifacts when PTQ minimized is so different when maximised.


Ars non habet osorem nisi ignorantem
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 9,792
G
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 9,792
Originally Posted by AlphaBravoCharlie
Originally Posted by arc7urus

I seriously doubt that minimizing PT would improve its performance as the amount of graphics processing is neglible when compared to the remaining processing. Moreover, this could be tested


I also didn't believe when I read it, but then I tested it. Max poliphony I can reach without having artifacts when PTQ minimized is so different when maximised.


I've seen this claim more than once as well. Enough where it's definitely worth trying if you're getting dropouts/clips.


Bosendorfer D214VC ENPro
Past: Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11, Kawai NV10
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 237
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 237
Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by AlphaBravoCharlie
Originally Posted by arc7urus

I seriously doubt that minimizing PT would improve its performance as the amount of graphics processing is neglible when compared to the remaining processing. Moreover, this could be tested


I also didn't believe when I read it, but then I tested it. Max poliphony I can reach without having artifacts when PTQ minimized is so different when maximised.


I've seen this claim more than once as well. Enough where it's definitely worth trying if you're getting dropouts/clips.


When I have a lot of stuff running on my MacBook Pro (programming tools, Chrome with a lot of tabs, iTunes), minimizing Pianoteq window or putting another app window on top makes the sound stutter badly.
When I put Pianoteq window back to the frontmost, it works fine.
It seems like when straining for resources, the OS gives the priority to the app whose window is visible.

Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,824
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,824
Originally Posted by siros
Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by AlphaBravoCharlie
Originally Posted by arc7urus

I seriously doubt that minimizing PT would improve its performance as the amount of graphics processing is neglible when compared to the remaining processing. Moreover, this could be tested


I also didn't believe when I read it, but then I tested it. Max poliphony I can reach without having artifacts when PTQ minimized is so different when maximised.


I've seen this claim more than once as well. Enough where it's definitely worth trying if you're getting dropouts/clips.


When I have a lot of stuff running on my MacBook Pro (programming tools, Chrome with a lot of tabs, iTunes), minimizing Pianoteq window or putting another app window on top makes the sound stutter badly.
When I put Pianoteq window back to the frontmost, it works fine.
It seems like when straining for resources, the OS gives the priority to the app whose window is visible.

Interesting. This is the opposite of what AlphaBravoCharlie is saying. He says when minimized, it performs better. You are saying, when the window is in front (not minimized) it performs better.


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,181
A
arc Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
A
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,181
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Interesting. This is the opposite of what AlphaBravoCharlie is saying. He says when minimized, it performs better. You are saying, when the window is in front (not minimized) it performs better.

Operating systems slightly prioritize foreground applications over the background applications if not configured otherwise. Minimizing a window may increase the performance of a graphically intensive application (for example, an application writing a large amount of text to a command line window will run faster if the window is minimized). So, putting a web browser with a dozen of tabs as the foreground application is not a good idea, especially since some of the the pages are likely to be running extremely inefficient and resource intensive scripts.

Anyway, Pianoteq is not a demanding application. On my system, it averages 5-6% CPU usage, of which ca. 3% are from the ASIO driver. If I use Pianoteq with 256 polyphony to render a high-definition MIDI recording of a demanding piece from the Piano e-competition, it may generate a couple of spikes to 10-15% CPU usage. So, unless the system features an old low-end CPU, any sound dropouts in Pianoteq are mostly a consequence of the system configuration and/or other applications, not of Pianoteq itself.

Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 614
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 614
Originally Posted by BB Player
This is supposed to be a Pianoteq Tips thread. One would imagine it will be searched quite a bit in the future.

Oh. Sorry.

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,868
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,868
Usually, real time music software (DAW), use a special priority scheduling : MCSS (https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/desktop/procthread/multimedia-class-scheduler-service), then it has a high priority for 80% of the time. Putting the application on background shouldn’t hurt the CPU allocation.

However, with important samples, I have to keep the application foreground since the memory allocation tries to page out background application first when the free memory is too low.


http://www.sinerj.org/
http://humeur-synthe.sinerj.org/
Yamaha N1X, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,730
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,730
In another thread recently it was suggested I show my Pianoteq velocity curves. These curves are always works in progress, but at present I'm reasonably happy with two of my Bechstein DG curves.

My main issue with all Pianoteq instruments is that the sound is dominated by the strings, and it sounds very metallic. In a real grand the sound is dominated by the soundboard, and it sounds woody. Since Pianoteq sounds are most metallic at the largest MIDI values, I generally design my velocity curves to avoid a good part of the highest MIDI values. This way I really have to hit the keys hard to hear the metallic sound.

Implicitly this procedure reduces the dynamical range, so to compensate I raise the dynamics slider to somewhere around 45db to 50db.

Of course the velocity curves also must depend on the digital piano, or keyboard used. In my case this is the Roland FP30.

The two Bechstein DG curves that I currently prefer are:

Velocity = [0, 17, 36, 54, 76, 101, 127; 0, 17, 38, 67, 91, 107, 116]

and

Velocity = [0, 20, 51, 89, 127; 20, 34, 65, 90, 102]

The latter being the more extreme one, but of the two I prefer the former.

Both can be pasted into the VELOCITY graph (just copy and paste the whole line as shown).


Physical instruments: Roland FP-30, and E-28
Virtual instruments: "The Experience" piano collection, NI "The Maverick", Galaxy II Grand piano collection, Synthogy Ivory II Studio Grands, Production Voices Estate Grand, Garritan CFX Lite, Pianoteq 7.5.2
Focus: 1850±100 years
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,824
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,824
Originally Posted by QuasiUnaFantasia
In another thread recently it was suggested I show my Pianoteq velocity curves. These curves are always works in progress, but at present I'm reasonably happy with two of my Bechstein DG curves.

My main issue with all Pianoteq instruments is that the sound is dominated by the strings, and it sounds very metallic. In a real grand the sound is dominated by the soundboard, and it sounds woody. Since Pianoteq sounds are most metallic at the largest MIDI values, I generally design my velocity curves to avoid a good part of the highest MIDI values. This way I really have to hit the keys hard to hear the metallic sound.

Implicitly this procedure reduces the dynamical range, so to compensate I raise the dynamics slider to somewhere around 45db to 50db.

Of course the velocity curves also must depend on the digital piano, or keyboard used. In my case this is the Roland FP30.

The two Bechstein DG curves that I currently prefer are:

Velocity = [0, 17, 36, 54, 76, 101, 127; 0, 17, 38, 67, 91, 107, 116]

and

Velocity = [0, 20, 51, 89, 127; 20, 34, 65, 90, 102]

The latter being the more extreme one, but of the two I prefer the former.

Both can be pasted into the VELOCITY graph (just copy and paste the whole line as shown).

Thank you for this! I will be trying both of these out! smile


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 614
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 614
Well done Quasi, and thanks. I'll try those at my earliest convenience, look forward to it.
Re your earlier comment about the auto velocity calibrate function--mine didn't deliver a useable result, either.

If your trials precede mine, Sloth (probably will)--maybe you can report on here later.

Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 614
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 614
Harrumph, here's a tip--for me. Been trying to enter Quasi's curve in PTQ...wouldn't paste. Stiĺl don't know what the second set of numbers is for (after the semi-colon), so couldn't enter it properly with the line dots. Apparently--according to a thread by DavidB on PTQ forum...you have to copy (and paste) the whole line, including the "velocity=" and the square brackets. I was just trying to paste the numbers on the velocity panel. Tut. Will try that tomorrow. blush

EDIT--Quasi said it--
Quote
Both can be pasted into the VELOCITY graph (just copy and paste the whole line as shown).

Last edited by thickfingers; 05/16/19 04:44 PM.
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 789
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 789
Originally Posted by QuasiUnaFantasia
My main issue with all Pianoteq instruments is that the sound is dominated by the strings, and it sounds very metallic. In a real grand the sound is dominated by the soundboard, and it sounds woody. Since Pianoteq sounds are most metallic at the largest MIDI values, I generally design my velocity curves to avoid a good part of the highest MIDI values. This way I really have to hit the keys hard to hear the metallic sound.

You should meet the acoustic grand at my school.
That thing sounds harsh and metallic no matter what I do. Even my teacher admitted that it is hard to make it sound soft and warm.

I feel like a construction worker trying to pet a fluffy kitten when I play it. All I can think of is "be more gentle" yet my hands rarely comply.

Compared to that it's a cakewalk to make pianoteq sound soft and that is with the standard linear curve. So I guess it heavily varies even among acoustics.


The backbone of modern industrial society is, and for the foreseeable future will be, the use of electrical Power.
VPC 1 -> Pianoteq 7 Std | Garritan CFX / Pearl Alto Flute 201
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 10,512
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 10,512
Originally Posted by Granyala
ou should meet the acoustic grand at my school.
That thing sounds harsh and metallic no matter what I do. Even my teacher admitted that it is hard to make it sound soft and warm.

I feel like a construction worker trying to pet a fluffy kitten when I play it. All I can think of is "be more gentle" yet my hands rarely comply.

Compared to that it's a cakewalk to make pianoteq sound soft and that is with the standard linear curve. So I guess it heavily varies even among acoustics.


Very true, not many appreciate that. And Ptq demonstrates a similar tendency with it's range of pianos. Try the old bechstein.


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

"[Linked Image]"
Page 3 of 3 1 2 3

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
Piano World Has Been Sold!
--------------------
Forums RULES, Terms of Service & HELP
(updated 06/06/2022)
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
(ad)
(ad)
New Topics - Multiple Forums
New DP for a 10 year old
by peelaaa - 04/16/24 02:47 PM
Estonia 1990
by Iberia - 04/16/24 11:01 AM
Very Cheap Piano?
by Tweedpipe - 04/16/24 10:13 AM
Practical Meaning of SMP
by rneedle - 04/16/24 09:57 AM
Country style lessons
by Stephen_James - 04/16/24 06:04 AM
Forum Statistics
Forums43
Topics223,390
Posts3,349,260
Members111,633
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010

Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations |

Advertise on Piano World
| Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map


Copyright © VerticalScope Inc. All Rights Reserved.
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community.