Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Who's Online Now
123 registered members (amyram, AndrewJCW, AlphaBravoCharlie, 604Rakuda, amad23, ArturC, 36251, ando, 8ude, 30 invisible), 1,716 guests, and 5 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 4 1 2 3 4
Re: VST dropouts [Re: MacMacMac] #2826890
03/14/19 06:59 PM
03/14/19 06:59 PM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 367
oscar1 Offline
Full Member
oscar1  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 367
For very long time I was running shadow defender on my windows machines - the idea is to install your machine from scratch as you want with the Windows and all the apps and data you need but use two partitions c for windows and d for data and enable shadow defender on c. Anytime you restart the computer it will switch it back to the state you initially set it on. Just remember to save all your data to d or they will be lost if you save them to c.
Worked really well. Made my computers completely bug free for years. Anytime I restarted it, it was like a freshly installed windows. I no longer use it though. There are other software like this. SHadow defender was what I was using but there are others.

Last edited by oscar1; 03/14/19 07:01 PM.

Casio PX-860, Roland Fantom G, Kurzweil PC1X, Korg Micro X
(ad) SWEETWATER Lowest Prices
Re: VST dropouts [Re: MacMacMac] #2826943
03/14/19 08:16 PM
03/14/19 08:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,480
深水埗區
N
newer player Online content
1000 Post Club Member
newer player  Online Content
1000 Post Club Member
N

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,480
深水埗區
Hi Mac'3

It looks like the Dell XPS 8920 has a disappointing range of menu items in BIOS, despite the good 7700K CPU.

I would try each step below, play the VI for a while to see if that helped. Else move to the next step.

First, make sure you have the latest BIOS installed on your computer. Then check to see if there are more menu options for c-states etc. Ideally you can shut off c-states in the new BIOS but I don't know if Dell allows that basic functionality.

Second, you should confirm that the BIOS actually turns off Speed Step. You can download HWiNFO64. Run program, check box "summary only", click "Run". On the left hand side there is a panel labeled "features" and "EIST" should be red font if Speed Step indeed was disabled. If "EIST" is green font, BIOS did not disable Speed Step properly (I had this problem on several Dell computers). Enter BIOS and double check that you disabled Speed Step and saved.

https://www.hwinfo.com/download/

Third, if your Dell did not disable Speed Step properly (EIST still is green font in HWiNFO64), an easy option is to download & install free ThrottleStop software. On main window make sure the "SpeedStep" box is unchecked. Relaunch HWiNFO64 and hopefully the EIST is now red font (disabled).

https://www.techpowerup.com/download/techpowerup-throttlestop/
https://www.notebookcheck.net/ThrottleStop-Primer.213140.0.html

The ThrottleStop forum is here and the developer is UncleWebb who is always available to answer questions

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/the-throttlestop-guide.531329/

Fourth, you can look at alternatives to disable c-states. Below is a quick old primer on c-states so you know what they are

https://www.dell.com/support/article/us/en/19/qna41893/what-is-the-c-state?lang=en

In the main window of ThrottleStop you can easily disable the troublesome C1E states with the checkbox. For energy savings and heat purposes, you should disable only when playing VIs.

Fifth, if the above fails, you probably can disable all c-states with a registry tweak. I suppose this could brick your system so make sure you are comfortable with this and do a bit of research. I don't think this disables C1E but you just use the ThrottleStop C1E checkbox in step 4 above.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/the-throttlestop-guide.531329/page-206#post-9631401
https://social.technet.microsoft.co...lock-to-maximum?forum=win10itprohardware
https://www.wintips.org/fix-cpu-not-running-at-full-speed-in-windows-10/

EDIT - Keep an eye on temps as your processor will get a bit toasty and I don't know how robust the XPS cooling system is. Intel will throttle the CPU around about 100*C regardless, but you want to run a good bit cooler.

Last edited by newer player; 03/14/19 08:25 PM.
Re: VST dropouts [Re: newer player] #2827010
03/15/19 02:11 AM
03/15/19 02:11 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,840
Europe
JoeT Offline
1000 Post Club Member
JoeT  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,840
Europe
If it's a notebook computer I strongly advise against using unofficial solutions to prevent power management. The hardware and its cooling is designed with these options in mind (thermal design power) and can overheat and even melt, if you decide to force a power output, which it wasn't meant for.


Yamaha P-515 | Kawai ES100 | Steinberg UR22 | Sony MDR-7506
Re: VST dropouts [Re: MacMacMac] #2827016
03/15/19 02:49 AM
03/15/19 02:49 AM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,480
深水埗區
N
newer player Online content
1000 Post Club Member
newer player  Online Content
1000 Post Club Member
N

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,480
深水埗區
Mac said above it is a 7700K Dell desktop computer. It has overclocking options built in the BIOS so will have much more robust cooling than a laptop.

Re: VST dropouts [Re: newer player] #2827025
03/15/19 04:04 AM
03/15/19 04:04 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,840
Europe
JoeT Offline
1000 Post Club Member
JoeT  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,840
Europe
Originally Posted by newer player
Mac said above it is a 7700K Dell desktop computer. It has overclocking options built in the BIOS so will have much more robust cooling than a laptop.

But people tend to read those instructions later and apply them to all kind of hardware. That's why I advise caution.


Yamaha P-515 | Kawai ES100 | Steinberg UR22 | Sony MDR-7506
Re: VST dropouts [Re: JoeT] #2827093
03/15/19 09:31 AM
03/15/19 09:31 AM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 185
N
nicknameTaken Offline
Full Member
nicknameTaken  Offline
Full Member
N

Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 185
Originally Posted by JoeT
If it's a notebook computer I strongly advise against using unofficial solutions to prevent power management. The hardware and its cooling is designed with these options in mind (thermal design power) and can overheat and even melt, if you decide to force a power output, which it wasn't meant for.


No. Modern hardware does shut down on unsafe temps. A cpu usually shuts down at around 100C~.
However, the power supplies if notebooks / non-custom hardware usually is very bad.
You can tell by the brand. Even the higher end DELL desktop pc's use partly unsufficient PSU's.
I for my part have a BeQuiet Dark Power Pro 11, which is considered top of the line.

PS: Never overclock mobile hardware, it does not possess the cooling capabilities.

Last edited by nicknameTaken; 03/15/19 09:31 AM.
Re: VST dropouts [Re: nicknameTaken] #2827111
03/15/19 10:24 AM
03/15/19 10:24 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,840
Europe
JoeT Offline
1000 Post Club Member
JoeT  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,840
Europe
Originally Posted by nicknameTaken
No. Modern hardware does shut down on unsafe temps.

Unless you disable that on a quest for low latency audio. wink


Yamaha P-515 | Kawai ES100 | Steinberg UR22 | Sony MDR-7506
Re: VST dropouts [Re: nicknameTaken] #2827121
03/15/19 10:52 AM
03/15/19 10:52 AM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,480
深水埗區
N
newer player Online content
1000 Post Club Member
newer player  Online Content
1000 Post Club Member
N

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,480
深水埗區
Originally Posted by JoeT
But people tend to read those instructions later and apply them to all kind of hardware. That's why I advise caution.

Agreed. Especially for laptops.

Originally Posted by nicknameTaken
Modern hardware does shut down on unsafe temps. A cpu usually shuts down at around 100C~.
However, the power supplies if notebooks / non-custom hardware usually is very bad.

Agreed. Notebooks often have substandard heatsinks and poorly applied thermal paste making things worse.

Re: VST dropouts [Re: MacMacMac] #2827123
03/15/19 10:55 AM
03/15/19 10:55 AM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 515
UK
J
jamiecw Offline
500 Post Club Member
jamiecw  Offline
500 Post Club Member
J

Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 515
UK
+1 this whole thread....this is what I love about PW - you don't just learn about pianos etc.. you learn about all kinds of sh*t from laptop heatsinks to quantum theory...love it! smile

Re: VST dropouts [Re: MacMacMac] #2827129
03/15/19 11:03 AM
03/15/19 11:03 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,445
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline OP
9000 Post Club Member
MacMacMac  Offline OP
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,445
Raleigh, North Carolina
And you also learn that requests for help often go out into left field.

So ... thanks newer player, sullivang, and Charles Cohen for being on point (as usual). And thanks likewise to relative newbie oscar1.

Re: VST dropouts [Re: MacMacMac] #2827134
03/15/19 11:13 AM
03/15/19 11:13 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,198
Sofia, Bulgaria
CyberGene Offline
4000 Post Club Member
CyberGene  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,198
Sofia, Bulgaria
And you also learn that Apple users are ridiculed for their overpriced computers. Why would you pay so much for a machine that won't allow you to spend hours tweaking some configuration settings on your BIOS and OS, but will instead require that you play some boring piano music wink

Last edited by CyberGene; 03/15/19 11:14 AM.

My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: VST dropouts [Re: CyberGene] #2827197
03/15/19 01:23 PM
03/15/19 01:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 302
S
stamkorg Offline
Full Member
stamkorg  Offline
Full Member
S

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 302
Originally Posted by CyberGene
And you also learn that Apple users are ridiculed for their overpriced computers. Why would you pay so much for a machine that won't allow you to spend hours tweaking some configuration settings on your BIOS and OS, but will instead require that you play some boring piano music wink


LOL

You are right.
It's a shame that Windows doesn't provide a factory made glitch free mode that prevents any dropout for the kind of use we do.

Last edited by stamkorg; 03/15/19 01:24 PM.
Re: VST dropouts [Re: MacMacMac] #2827215
03/15/19 02:26 PM
03/15/19 02:26 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,445
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline OP
9000 Post Club Member
MacMacMac  Offline OP
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,445
Raleigh, North Carolina
Until recently this Windows box was ready-to-roll quickly. As was the one before that, and the one before that.
In each case it was just ...
- Install Kontakt
- Install Presonus driver
- Install piano VSTs
- Configure Kontakt
- Play the piano

It's only recently that I've had problems.

Re: VST dropouts [Re: newer player] #2827252
03/15/19 05:08 PM
03/15/19 05:08 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,445
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline OP
9000 Post Club Member
MacMacMac  Offline OP
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,445
Raleigh, North Carolina
I've done some of the things you suggested ...
Originally Posted by newer player
Make sure you have the latest BIOS installed on your computer. Then check to see if there are more menu options for c-states etc. Ideally you can shut off c-states in the new BIOS but I don't know if Dell allows that basic functionality.
I have not yet checked this.

Quote
You should confirm that the BIOS actually turns off Speed Step. Run HWiNFO64program, check "summary only", click "Run". On the left hand side ... "EIST" should be red font if Speed Step indeed was disabled.
Yes, EIST is in RED, as seen in this picture ... HWiNFO screenshot

Quote
If your Dell did not disable Speed Step ... download & install ThrottleStop.
Speed Step was indeed disabled ... but I installed Throttle Stop anyway.
I ran it and it gives this ...
Throttle Stop screenshot
I don’t know what most of this means ... but note that C1E IS CHECKED, and SPEEDSTEP IS NOT CHECKED.
I'll have to uncheck the C1E box later.


Quote
In ThrottleStop you can easily disable C1E states with the checkbox. For energy savings/heat purposes, disable only when playing VIs.
OK, that explains what to try regarding C1E. I'll try that tonight.

Quote
If the above fails, you probably can disable all c-states with a registry tweak. I suppose this could brick your system ...
That is unpalatable. frown

A thought just occurred to me ... maybe if I temporarily turn off the antivirus software? I'll try that later, too.

If all of that fails I'll have to blame it on Windows 1803 or one of the interim updates.

Re: VST dropouts [Re: MacMacMac] #2827256
03/15/19 05:21 PM
03/15/19 05:21 PM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 243
PA
puremusic Offline
Full Member
puremusic  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 243
PA
I turn off antivirus software on the areas where my music software and VSTs run, it -does- interfere.


Roland FP-90 - Touchkeys - TEC BC - MIDI Expression
Kontakt - Arturia Piano V - Sonivox Eighty-Eight - Spitfire Symphony Orchestra

whitepianos.blogspot.com
Re: VST dropouts [Re: JoeT] #2827258
03/15/19 05:31 PM
03/15/19 05:31 PM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,181
Europe
A
arc7urus Offline
1000 Post Club Member
arc7urus  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
A

Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,181
Europe
Originally Posted by JoeT
Originally Posted by nicknameTaken
No. Modern hardware does shut down on unsafe temps.

Unless you disable that on a quest for low latency audio. wink

CPUs (and GPUs) have several layers of thermal protection. The initial temperature warnings are sent by the processor and managed by the operating or BIOS. These can be configured or even disabled in some cases. When higher temperature are reached, the processor will step down the voltage and throttle down the frequency. If the so called maximum Tjunction temperature limit is crossed, the CPU will simply shutdown. The latter cannot be disabled.

Re: VST dropouts [Re: MacMacMac] #2827265
03/15/19 05:49 PM
03/15/19 05:49 PM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,181
Europe
A
arc7urus Offline
1000 Post Club Member
arc7urus  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
A

Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,181
Europe
@Mac: have you tried running your VST as a high priority or realtime process?
https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/89548-set-cpu-process-priority-applications-windows-10-a.html

Are you using any anti virus apart from Windows Defender? In any case, disable them while using the VST or at least make sure they are not scheduled to scan when the computer is idle.

Check your startup processes (from task manager) and disable all updaters and non essential startup software. Also check if you have software (such as drivers) automatically looking for updates. You can also check if you have scheduled taks in the Task Scheduler that activate when the system is idle.

Re: VST dropouts [Re: MacMacMac] #2827269
03/15/19 06:07 PM
03/15/19 06:07 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,445
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline OP
9000 Post Club Member
MacMacMac  Offline OP
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,445
Raleigh, North Carolina
I really don't think I have overtemp issues. The fan isn't spun up. It does race when I do video processing. And once in a while when gaming. But not with pianos.

I'll try disabling antivirus later tonight. And the process priority bump, too.

Re: VST dropouts [Re: MacMacMac] #2827274
03/15/19 06:12 PM
03/15/19 06:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,480
深水埗區
N
newer player Online content
1000 Post Club Member
newer player  Online Content
1000 Post Club Member
N

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,480
深水埗區
ONE You can find updated Dell drivers and BIOS here (You get a customized list of drivers if you type in your service tag or serial number - recommended):

https://www.dell.com/support/home/us/en/19/product-support/product/xps-8920-desktop/drivers

The latest BIOS seems to be Nov 2018 and was 1.0.18. I would update all the drivers to be frank, especially the nVidia ones as they have been problematic for DPC latency.

TWO Not sure this is as effective as shutting off c-states but one easy "trick" that locks the CPU clocks you could try with ThrottleStop:

- Click the "FIVR" button. In "Turbo Ratio Limits" section, you can set the CPU speed of each core with the left/right buttons (x cores active). Set them all lower (and all cores to the same level). Click apply, OK.

-- Alternative: Click the "FIVR" button. In "Turbo Ratio Limits" section you might be able to select the "Overclock" checkbox and type in a lower value at "Overclock". Click apply, OK.

You can confirm that clock multipliers are locked (ThrottleStop main window, FID column varies "realtime" and should be locked at say 35).

You need to test what multipliers your 7700K will maintain will all cores running. Maybe try 35x and see if clocks are stable (shown on ThrottleStop main screen FID column. Continue to bump up and test. I suppose you can get over 40x before fans go ballistic.

Once you are happy with settings you can click "save" on the main screen of ThrottleStop.

Re: VST dropouts [Re: newer player] #2827287
03/15/19 06:36 PM
03/15/19 06:36 PM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,181
Europe
A
arc7urus Offline
1000 Post Club Member
arc7urus  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
A

Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,181
Europe
Originally Posted by newer player
ONE You can find updated Dell drivers and BIOS here (You get a customized list of drivers if you type in your service tag or serial number - recommended):

https://www.dell.com/support/home/us/en/19/product-support/product/xps-8920-desktop/drivers

The latest BIOS seems to be Nov 2018 and was 1.0.18. I would update all the drivers to be frank, especially the nVidia ones as they have been problematic for DPC latency.

TWO Not sure this is as effective as shutting off c-states but one easy "trick" that locks the CPU clocks you could try with ThrottleStop:

- Click the "FIVR" button. In "Turbo Ratio Limits" section, you can set the CPU speed of each core with the left/right buttons (x cores active). Set them all lower (and all cores to the same level). Click apply, OK.

-- Alternative: Click the "FIVR" button. In "Turbo Ratio Limits" section you might be able to select the "Overclock" checkbox and type in a lower value at "Overclock". Click apply, OK.

You can confirm that clock multipliers are locked (ThrottleStop main window, FID column varies "realtime" and should be locked at say 35).

You need to test what multipliers your 7700K will maintain will all cores running. Maybe try 35x and see if clocks are stable (shown on ThrottleStop main screen FID column. Continue to bump up and test. I suppose you can get over 40x before fans go ballistic.

Once you are happy with settings you can click "save" on the main screen of ThrottleStop.


These are good tips, but is an overclock really needed to run a VST? Playing around with cpu core multipliers and voltages without understanding the impact may easily lead to overheating and an overall unstable system. The problems here described, as most VST problems, seem to be due to software, not hardware configuration.

Page 2 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  Piano World 

(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Bechstein
Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
PianoSupplies.com is Piano World's Online Store
Please visit our store today.
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
"Weaponizing" Off-Topic posts in large threads
by Gombessa. 10/17/19 12:30 PM
Impact Method....without Impact Hammer?
by Duaner. 10/17/19 12:04 PM
Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On Part Deux
by Gombessa. 10/17/19 11:55 AM
Philip Glass look out!!
by Peyton. 10/17/19 11:49 AM
Remove swirl marks, polish gloss ebony finish?
by TurboMatt. 10/17/19 10:48 AM
What's Hot!!
Our August Newsletter is Out!
------------------
Mason & Hamlin Piano Factory Tour!

-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics194,575
Posts2,880,278
Members94,688
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2019 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1