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Slab DP Comparable to the Kawai KDP110? #2827125
03/15/19 10:56 AM
03/15/19 10:56 AM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 78
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Beardog Offline OP
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I already know some of you folks from other sub-forums and threads. Great to be a member here!

We recently purchased a Steinway A grand for my wife. We already have a Kawai KDP110, in an out -of -town apartment, that I bought for my wife to play when we are there.

I have started playing piano again over the last few weeks, and have surprised myself at how well things are going after many years away from the piano (but not from other instruments and music in general).

I want to get a slab piano for myself, so I can practice with headphones, and not bother my wife. I can play the Steinway anytime that I want (when she isn't!!) but I am often up early and up late for hours, when she is sleeping. I have been playing the KDP110 extensively over the last week, while out of town working and staying in my apartment. And surprisingly to myself, I don't mind the action at all. It is really quite good, considering the price point. And, using the iGrand VST on my iPad and iPhone, it sounds amazingly good (through good headphones; the DKP110 doesn't have an audio input, to allow me to run iGrand through the onboard speakers).

So, I am thinking that perhaps I would be OK with something like the ES110? If I am going to only use headphones, what new, or used keyboards might be comparable? I could get by with just a controller keyboard, but something like the VPC1 seems a bit overkill since we are already piano poor, and other controllers come with tons of stuff that I will never use. I don't need "the best that I can get because I can't have an acoustic piano". I play classical piano and ragtime, only.

A decent keyboard action, midi capability (I already have the USB to host connection equipment for my iOS devices), and a headphone jack are really my only "needs". Anything I am missing? Recommendations?

Thanks a ton!!


Beardog
1903 Steinway A
1975 Yamaha Studio Upright
Korg G1 Air
Kawai KDP110
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Re: Slab DP Comparable to the Kawai KDP110? [Re: Beardog] #2827196
03/15/19 01:18 PM
03/15/19 01:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 515
Just outside London UK
akc42 Offline
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I think you should try Kawai ES110, but also the Yamaha p125 and Roland FP30. The actions feel quite different to each other with the ES110 being very light and with the FP30 being heavier and the P125 the heaviest. A lot of factors go into choosing a piano that feel right for you, so you should choose based on your impression of the feel.

The problem you might face is the one I am facing right now. As you get better and if you do have the chance to play the acoustic, the digital keyboards all feel lacking. I am only about 18 months into my restart experience (after playing to Grade 3 as a child) and I chased a Casio AP470 (about equivalent to the KDP110) up to a Kawai CA67 and now I am hankering after one of the new Hybrid Pianos with a Grand Piano Action. I went into the local music store to try out the New Yamaha N1X (and along the way also tried out the Kawai Novus 10 and an acoustic grand) a couple of weeks ago and now coming back to the CA67, which up until then I thought did replicate a grand piano, only to find it felt bland and lifeless.

Re: Slab DP Comparable to the Kawai KDP110? [Re: Beardog] #2827201
03/15/19 01:38 PM
03/15/19 01:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,114
Kitsap County, WA
Chrispy Online content
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Chrispy  Online Content
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Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the KDP110 is effectively an ES110 built in to a stand with some UI bells and whistles.


𝒀𝒂𝒎𝒂𝒉𝒂 𝑨𝒗𝒂𝒏𝒕 𝑮𝒓𝒂𝒏𝒅 𝑵1𝑿
Re: Slab DP Comparable to the Kawai KDP110? [Re: akc42] #2827348
03/15/19 10:07 PM
03/15/19 10:07 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 78
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Beardog Offline OP
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Beardog  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by akc42
I think you should try Kawai ES110, but also the Yamaha p125 and Roland FP30. The actions feel quite different to each other with the ES110 being very light and with the FP30 being heavier and the P125 the heaviest. A lot of factors go into choosing a piano that feel right for you, so you should choose based on your impression of the feel.

The problem you might face is the one I am facing right now. As you get better and if you do have the chance to play the acoustic, the digital keyboards all feel lacking. I am only about 18 months into my restart experience (after playing to Grade 3 as a child) and I chased a Casio AP470 (about equivalent to the KDP110) up to a Kawai CA67 and now I am hankering after one of the new Hybrid Pianos with a Grand Piano Action. I went into the local music store to try out the New Yamaha N1X (and along the way also tried out the Kawai Novus 10 and an acoustic grand) a couple of weeks ago and now coming back to the CA67, which up until then I thought did replicate a grand piano, only to find it felt bland and lifeless.


Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I agree that "the digital keyboards all feel lacking" compared to a really good acoustic piano. That's part of why I don't feel compelled to find "the best". I think that I can adjust to whatever I get, as long as it has a decent action that 75% of people wouldn't throw out. I can play fairly fast scales, arpeggios, chord cadences, and pieces of music on the KDP110 without any big complaints, so that is encouraging to me. I will take a closer look at the FP30 and the P125; thanks for the suggestions.


Beardog
1903 Steinway A
1975 Yamaha Studio Upright
Korg G1 Air
Kawai KDP110
Re: Slab DP Comparable to the Kawai KDP110? [Re: Chrispy] #2827350
03/15/19 10:09 PM
03/15/19 10:09 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 78
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Beardog Offline OP
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Originally Posted by squidbot
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the KDP110 is effectively an ES110 built in to a stand with some UI bells and whistles.


That is pretty much my assumption as well, squidbot. But, I haven't pored over the specs of the pianos side-by-side, either.


Beardog
1903 Steinway A
1975 Yamaha Studio Upright
Korg G1 Air
Kawai KDP110
Re: Slab DP Comparable to the Kawai KDP110? [Re: Beardog] #2827635
03/16/19 05:15 PM
03/16/19 05:15 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 78
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Beardog Offline OP
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I found a Korg G1Air locally that is 2 months old, and I can pick it up for $700. Fellow bought it brand new, and is in a financial bind. Still has the original paperwork, and hasn't registered the warranty yet. It isn't even close to what I was looking at, but for the price, it might do. I will post my thoughts after I go look at it tomorrow.


Beardog
1903 Steinway A
1975 Yamaha Studio Upright
Korg G1 Air
Kawai KDP110
Re: Slab DP Comparable to the Kawai KDP110? [Re: akc42] #2827644
03/16/19 05:39 PM
03/16/19 05:39 PM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 20
Oskar Costa Offline
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Originally Posted by akc42
I think you should try Kawai ES110, but also the Yamaha p125 and Roland FP30. The actions feel quite different to each other with the ES110 being very light and with the FP30 being heavier and the P125 the heaviest. A lot of factors go into choosing a piano that feel right for you, so you should choose based on your impression of the feel.



I'd say the action of the P-125 is the lightest of the three, and Roland's is the heaviest. Kawai's action is somewhere in the middle. Roland's PHA-4 Standard action is definitely heavier than Yamaha's GHS action which is a bit too light and plasticky.

Re: Slab DP Comparable to the Kawai KDP110? [Re: Beardog] #2828018
03/17/19 10:02 PM
03/17/19 10:02 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,618
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
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Kawai James  Offline
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Posts: 15,618
Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted by Beardog
Originally Posted by squidbot
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the KDP110 is effectively an ES110 built in to a stand with some UI bells and whistles.


That is pretty much my assumption as well, squidbot. But, I haven't pored over the specs of the pianos side-by-side, either.


Yes, the KDP110 and ES110 are very similar in terms of specifications. However, the KDP110 is the newer model, and therefore features an improved 3-sensor keyboard action (RHCII vs RHC) and the latest piano samples (SK-EX vs EX).

Here is a detailed side-by-side comparison:
http://www.kawai-global.com/product_comparison/detail.php?n=2224,2723&ct=36

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Slab DP Comparable to the Kawai KDP110? [Re: Beardog] #2828176
03/18/19 08:54 AM
03/18/19 08:54 AM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 78
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Beardog Offline OP
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Thanks for the replies, Oskar Costa and Kawai James!


Beardog
1903 Steinway A
1975 Yamaha Studio Upright
Korg G1 Air
Kawai KDP110
Re: Slab DP Comparable to the Kawai KDP110? [Re: Oskar Costa] #2828471
03/18/19 10:25 PM
03/18/19 10:25 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 50
Annapolis MD
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gerhard_k Offline
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Annapolis MD
Originally Posted by akc42
I think you should try Kawai ES110, also the Yamaha p125 and Roland FP30. The actions feel quite different to each other with the ES110 being very light, the FP30 being heavier and the P125 the heaviest.

Originally Posted by Oskar Costa

I'd say the action of the P-125 is the lightest of the three, and Roland's is the heaviest. Kawai's action is somewhere in the middle.

Quoting 2 of the previous posts in this thread - you can see (once again) that even among well-meaning members here, there are differences of experience and opinion. Nothing can take the place of you checking things out for yourself. Good luck in your quest!


They say extra practice can make up for modesty of talent (up to a point) - I sure hope so...
Re: Slab DP Comparable to the Kawai KDP110? [Re: Kawai James] #2828499
03/19/19 01:14 AM
03/19/19 01:14 AM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,680
Groove On Offline
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Groove On  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,680
[i][/i]
Originally Posted by Kawai James
the KDP110 and ES110 are very similar in terms of specifications. However, the KDP110 is the newer model, and therefore features an improved 3-sensor keyboard action (RHCII vs RHC) and the latest piano samples (SK-EX vs EX).

Here is a detailed side-by-side comparison:
http://www.kawai-global.com/product_comparison/detail.php?n=2224,2723&ct=36

I like the KDP110, a couple of specifications that might not be obvious:
- Speakers: ES110 14 W (7 W × 2) vs. KDP 110 40 W (20 W × 2)
- KDP110 has USB to Host connection!
- KDP110 has a Sliding Key Cover
- KDP110 has "Spatial Headphone Sound Headphone Type" (perhaps this is binaural?)
- ES110 has Unbalanced Line Outs


We are the music makers,
And we are the dreamers of dreams.
Re: Slab DP Comparable to the Kawai KDP110? [Re: Groove On] #2828553
03/19/19 07:28 AM
03/19/19 07:28 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,181
Europe
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arc7urus Offline
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Europe
Quote
http://www.kawai-global.com/product_comparison/detail.php?n=2224,2723&ct=36
I like the KDP110, a couple of specifications that might not be obvious:
- Speakers: ES110 14 W (7 W × 2) vs. KDP 110 40 W (20 W × 2)
- KDP110 has USB to Host connection!

ES110 has MIDI in/out. So, the lack of USB port can be mitigated with a MIDI-USB adapter.

Quote
- KDP110 has "Spatial Headphone Sound Headphone Type" (perhaps this is binaural?)

Kawai has no binaural samples in their current DP line-up. SHS is just a set of digital effects applied to the audio.

Quote
- ES110 has Unbalanced Line Outs

Yes, the KDP has no line out. The headphone jack must be used instead.

These two models are entry level DPs and their differences are rather minimal. So ignore the specs. The decision is mainly about the format: if you prefer/need a slab DP then go for the ES; but if a cabinet piano is an option, then the KDP is the (slightly) better option.


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