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Re: Scores on paper vs iPads etc. - what do you prefer?
JoeT #2826845 03/14/19 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeT
Bluetooth MIDI is available as an option though.


I really should have unpacked the manual - does this give you Midi and Audio over bluetooth and have you tried it (apologies for the slight off topic question).

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Re: Scores on paper vs iPads etc. - what do you prefer?
ˆTomLCˆ #2827063 03/15/19 05:43 AM
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Originally Posted by TomLC
Oops, I should have read the whole thread before commenting. I see you do use left pedals, not the damper pedal. I tried it using Bluetooth Midi, but I can't get it to connect. So I guess you have to use the camera connector to the iPad?

You can use any MIDI command to control forScore. The left or middle pedals are the natural choice for page turns, but you can also use any available controller on your DP that sends out a MIDI message, such as a modulation wheel or knob. You can even assign a specific keyboard key to trigger a page turn. forScore also works with dedicated page turning devices that connect to the iPad via Bluetooth.

Regarding the connection between forScore and the DP. forScore accepts MIDI commands from a device connected to the iPad via USB or via "network MIDI". It does not work directly with Bluetooth MIDI. So, using an USB/Lightning adapter ("camera connector") for the iPad is an option. This setup is cumbersome because you will need to have a cable running between the DP and the iPad. Moreover, if you already have your PC connected to the DP over USB then this setup will not work.

So, the alternative is to connect the DP to forScore over Bluetooth MIDI, which is the setup I use. To make this work you need to setup a virtual network MIDI port on the iPad. So, you will need an app to create said virtual port, such as midimttr (free), midiflow or midifire. The setup is straightforward: enable Bluetooth MIDI on the DP, open the midimttr/midiflow/midiflow app, select the DP as the source and "Network Session" as the destination. This will route the messages sent over Bluetooth MIDI to the "Network Session" that can then be used inside forScore. To setup forScore, go to Settings -> "Page turners & shortcuts" and select "Next page" (or any other command). Then press a pedal or other controller on the DP to assign the command. Done. forScore only needs to be configured once. So, to use Bluetooth MIDI with forScore you just need to create the virtual port using the midimttr/midiflow/midiflow app before starting forScore (this takes something like 5 seconds with the midimttr app).

Btw, this is how the setup looks like with the left pedal assigned to page turns. The DP and the forScore are connected over Bluetooth MIDI.
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Last edited by arc7urus; 03/15/19 05:51 AM.
Re: Scores on paper vs iPads etc. - what do you prefer?
PianoStartsAt33 #2827071 03/15/19 06:36 AM
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I am now starting to use this seriously for a piece with 12 printed pages, so about twice that many page turns in Forscore, since I turn the ipad to landscape mode.

I'm using a PageFlip Firefly pedal, and the aggravating thing is that I cannot rest my foot on the pedal without turning pages. I have to keep my foot suspended over the pedal, which is not good for the muscles in my foot.

Is there any pedal out there that is stiff enough that I can rest my foot on it without activating it? Maybe the Stomp?

Sam

Re: Scores on paper vs iPads etc. - what do you prefer?
PianoStartsAt33 #2827098 03/15/19 08:52 AM
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Regarding using the piano pedals for page turning (via MIDI):

Leaving aside the issue that this is only possible if you don't actually need these pedals for the piece you play (which I admit most people don't):
Unless your piano has an option to disable local control for only those two pedals, doesn't that mean that whenever you turn a page, you also activate that pedal's normal function for a short moment? So if you use the middle pedal to turn to the next page, each time you do so, you have a short moment with sostenuto sustain? And each time you turn back a page you have a short moment with una corda sound? Or maybe that is not an issue because the pedal press is so short and you don't hear the pedal's normal effect?

Also a shout out for the Mobilesheets app, for those Android/Windows users out there. It too supports triggering page turns (or other functions) via such MIDI commands.

Re: Scores on paper vs iPads etc. - what do you prefer?
Sam S #2827102 03/15/19 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Sam S
I'm using a PageFlip Firefly pedal, and the aggravating thing is that I cannot rest my foot on the pedal without turning pages. I have to keep my foot suspended over the pedal, which is not good for the muscles in my foot.

That sounds uncomfortable indeed. I have the AirTurn, but I think that too would trigger unwanted page flips if I rested my foot on it (I'll test that later and get back to you). But I don't even attempt to rest or hover my foot over it. I simply move my foot from a rest position near the pedal, tap the pedal, and move the foot back. I'm using half-page turns, so I too must tap the pedal twice for each "paper" page.

Re: Scores on paper vs iPads etc. - what do you prefer?
PianoStartsAt33 #2827174 03/15/19 11:26 AM
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Am I correct in assuming you need to program both left hand pedals, one to advance the page and the other to back up?

Re: Scores on paper vs iPads etc. - what do you prefer?
Meaghanw #2827184 03/15/19 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Meaghanw
Am I correct in assuming you need to program both left hand pedals, one to advance the page and the other to back up?


Yes, that's what I did.

Re: Scores on paper vs iPads etc. - what do you prefer?
dhts #2827216 03/15/19 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by dhts
Also with forscore I like you can add audio tracks, e.g. downloaded the backing track for a Einaudi piece earlier today. You can teach forscore where the page turns are in an audio track so now when I select that piece and hit play the backing track starts automatically and it does the page turns itself at the correct points.


How are you using the backing track (besides for the page turns)? Is it a track without the piano, and you are playing along? And can you let us know where you got the Einaudi backing track?

Thanks!

Edit: I just answered my own questions by doing a simple search (how embarrassing!). I had no idea these existed! Very cool blush

Last edited by dancingfish; 03/15/19 01:30 PM.

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Re: Scores on paper vs iPads etc. - what do you prefer?
dancingfish #2827226 03/15/19 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by dancingfish
Originally Posted by dhts
Also with forscore I like you can add audio tracks, e.g. downloaded the backing track for a Einaudi piece earlier today. You can teach forscore where the page turns are in an audio track so now when I select that piece and hit play the backing track starts automatically and it does the page turns itself at the correct points.


How are you using the backing track (besides for the page turns)? Is it a track without the piano, and you are playing along? And can you let us know where you got the Einaudi backing track?

Thanks!

Edit: I just answered my own questions by doing a simple search (how embarrassing!). I had no idea these existed! Very cool blush


Wasn't sure whether you'd answered both of your questions but the two backing tracks from Elements are here (the URL was on the music book I bought) (http://www.ch84205.com/ and you associate the track with the music score in forscore and then 'teach' it where the page turns are. If anybody is aware of other backing tracks for other Einaudi pieces please let me know.

Re: Scores on paper vs iPads etc. - what do you prefer?
dhts #2827241 03/15/19 03:20 PM
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Thank you, dhts. I did come across this one for Nuvole Bianche as I was googling. If you go to that page and search for Einaudi, a bunch show up. Careful which download link you click (e.g. don't click on the big ones), as some of them will redirect to a karaoke site. From the search list of Einaudi tracks, first click on the track name, and then on that page, click on the smaller download link. I only downloaded Divenire so far, but it seems to be for real.

https://backingtrackmp3x.com/minusovka/36596/ludovico_einaudi/nuvole_bianche.html


Last edited by dancingfish; 03/15/19 03:22 PM.

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Re: Scores on paper vs iPads etc. - what do you prefer?
JoBert #2827309 03/15/19 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by JoBert
Regarding using the piano pedals for page turning (via MIDI):

Leaving aside the issue that this is only possible if you don't actually need these pedals for the piece you play (which I admit most people don't):
Unless your piano has an option to disable local control for only those two pedals, doesn't that mean that whenever you turn a page, you also activate that pedal's normal function for a short moment? So if you use the middle pedal to turn to the next page, each time you do so, you have a short moment with sostenuto sustain? And each time you turn back a page you have a short moment with una corda sound? Or maybe that is not an issue because the pedal press is so short and you don't hear the pedal's normal effect?

Also a shout out for the Mobilesheets app, for those Android/Windows users out there. It too supports triggering page turns (or other functions) via such MIDI commands.

The advantage of this approach is that there is no need to buy a page turning device. So, for non-professional use and for practicing it can be a good choice. The downsides are exactly what you say: the pedal(s) are momentarily activated and cannot be used for their original purpose. If the una corda pedal is assigned to the page turn, it will not affect any notes that are being held and its effects on sound are (unfortunately) not that noticeable on most DPs, especially given the very short pedal press.

Re: Scores on paper vs iPads etc. - what do you prefer?
JoBert #2827335 03/15/19 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by JoBert
Originally Posted by Sam S
I'm using a PageFlip Firefly pedal, and the aggravating thing is that I cannot rest my foot on the pedal without turning pages. I have to keep my foot suspended over the pedal, which is not good for the muscles in my foot.

That sounds uncomfortable indeed. I have the AirTurn, but I think that too would trigger unwanted page flips if I rested my foot on it (I'll test that later and get back to you). But I don't even attempt to rest or hover my foot over it. I simply move my foot from a rest position near the pedal, tap the pedal, and move the foot back. I'm using half-page turns, so I too must tap the pedal twice for each "paper" page.

I now tested this with my AirTurn and it is as I thought - you cannot rest your foot on it either without risking an accidental page turn.

Re: Scores on paper vs iPads etc. - what do you prefer?
JoBert #2827352 03/15/19 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by JoBert
Originally Posted by JoBert
Originally Posted by Sam S
I'm using a PageFlip Firefly pedal, and the aggravating thing is that I cannot rest my foot on the pedal without turning pages. I have to keep my foot suspended over the pedal, which is not good for the muscles in my foot.

That sounds uncomfortable indeed. I have the AirTurn, but I think that too would trigger unwanted page flips if I rested my foot on it (I'll test that later and get back to you). But I don't even attempt to rest or hover my foot over it. I simply move my foot from a rest position near the pedal, tap the pedal, and move the foot back. I'm using half-page turns, so I too must tap the pedal twice for each "paper" page.

I now tested this with my AirTurn and it is as I thought - you cannot rest your foot on it either without risking an accidental page turn.


Thanks JoBert - Looking closer at the Firefly, its basically a plastic hinge/spring - I don't think it will hold up to the hundreds of hours of practice this piece will need...

Sam

Re: Scores on paper vs iPads etc. - what do you prefer?
PianoStartsAt33 #2827788 03/17/19 08:28 AM
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arc7urus, Thank you for explaining this. I had a little trouble getting it to connect at first. But it did and it works great. My Airturn Pedpro has been replaced. Permanently! The PedPro was never satisfactory. Too sensitive and difficult to use without shoes. Sometimes it didn’t respond at all and sometimes it turned two pages.

I have it this set up so the left pedal changes the page forward and the middle pedal flips it back. Works perfectly!

wow



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Re: Scores on paper vs iPads etc. - what do you prefer?
Sam S #2857005 06/09/19 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Sam S
I'm using a PageFlip Firefly pedal, and the aggravating thing is that I cannot rest my foot on the pedal without turning pages. I have to keep my foot suspended over the pedal, which is not good for the muscles in my foot.

I'm trying to decide if I need a Stomp pedal or if I can go with a PageFlip. Macy stated in this thread here that the PageFlip has a "repeat on/off button that prevents multiple page turns while holding down the pedal." Was there no such setting on your Firefly, Sam? Or was it just insufficient when resting your foot on the pedal?


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Re: Scores on paper vs iPads etc. - what do you prefer?
Tyrone Slothrop #2857071 06/09/19 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by Sam S
I'm using a PageFlip Firefly pedal, and the aggravating thing is that I cannot rest my foot on the pedal without turning pages. I have to keep my foot suspended over the pedal, which is not good for the muscles in my foot.

I'm trying to decide if I need a Stomp pedal or if I can go with a PageFlip. Macy stated in this thread here that the PageFlip has a "repeat on/off button that prevents multiple page turns while holding down the pedal." Was there no such setting on your Firefly, Sam? Or was it just insufficient when resting your foot on the pedal?


It didn't occur to me to try that. I'm guessing that you keep it down, and when you want to turn the page you go up-down? I might be able to learn to do that, but it's doubtful. It also seems risky. Anyway, I got an Airturn BT200 with big mechanical switches on top. So far so good.

Sam

Re: Scores on paper vs iPads etc. - what do you prefer?
Sam S #2857083 06/09/19 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Sam S
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by Sam S
I'm using a PageFlip Firefly pedal, and the aggravating thing is that I cannot rest my foot on the pedal without turning pages. I have to keep my foot suspended over the pedal, which is not good for the muscles in my foot.

I'm trying to decide if I need a Stomp pedal or if I can go with a PageFlip. Macy stated in this thread here that the PageFlip has a "repeat on/off button that prevents multiple page turns while holding down the pedal." Was there no such setting on your Firefly, Sam? Or was it just insufficient when resting your foot on the pedal?


It didn't occur to me to try that. I'm guessing that you keep it down, and when you want to turn the page you go up-down? I might be able to learn to do that, but it's doubtful. It also seems risky. Anyway, I got an Airturn BT200 with big mechanical switches on top. So far so good.

Sam

OK. Thanks. I see the Airturn BT200 is constructed very similar to the Stomp. Some of the reviews suggest it might not be fully robust though like a Stomp box. Is yours constructed like a tank?


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"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
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Re: Scores on paper vs iPads etc. - what do you prefer?
Tyrone Slothrop #2857106 06/09/19 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by Sam S
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by Sam S
I'm using a PageFlip Firefly pedal, and the aggravating thing is that I cannot rest my foot on the pedal without turning pages. I have to keep my foot suspended over the pedal, which is not good for the muscles in my foot.

I'm trying to decide if I need a Stomp pedal or if I can go with a PageFlip. Macy stated in this thread here that the PageFlip has a "repeat on/off button that prevents multiple page turns while holding down the pedal." Was there no such setting on your Firefly, Sam? Or was it just insufficient when resting your foot on the pedal?


It didn't occur to me to try that. I'm guessing that you keep it down, and when you want to turn the page you go up-down? I might be able to learn to do that, but it's doubtful. It also seems risky. Anyway, I got an Airturn BT200 with big mechanical switches on top. So far so good.

Sam

OK. Thanks. I see the Airturn BT200 is constructed very similar to the Stomp. Some of the reviews suggest it might not be fully robust though like a Stomp box. Is yours constructed like a tank?


The case is some sort of plastic, but seems plenty strong for me. The switches are metal buttons. You can't open the case. On/off switch is vinyl covered. It's certainly more robust than the firefly.

Sam

Re: Scores on paper vs iPads etc. - what do you prefer?
PianoStartsAt33 #2857166 06/10/19 04:41 AM
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For people who learn to play piano with 1 of the online / digital teaching methods (Musiah, Piano Marvel, One Smart Piano) they would be used a screen. If you are learning with a teacher, it is very likely you use sheet music. Even online downloads would be printed on paper instead of just reading off a .pdf on an iPad.

Personally I don't have a preference for either. Playing with a music group, I get my music printed before music practice. At home I keep a lot of .pdf files to avoid accumulating too much paper. For comments I'd type in comments with the related bar # in a text file instead of marking up a paper copy. The past 20 years, I accumulated a few boxes of scores despite storing a lot of pieces in .pdf.

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