Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Who's Online Now
149 registered members (akc42, agraffe, 36251, accordeur, Beardog, AnthonyPaulO, Audetto, anamnesis, AssociateX, AZNpiano, 34 invisible), 1,122 guests, and 3 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Well this was unexpected #2826896
03/14/19 07:07 PM
03/14/19 07:07 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 67
A
afoonah Offline OP
Full Member
afoonah  Offline OP
Full Member
A

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 67
Unfortunate message received from landlord (despite all neighbors being agreeable):


Hi,

We have reviewed your email carefully. But I cannot agree with your plan to bring in a piano, any piano into the apartment. You are not allowed to bring in a piano into the unit.

Please heed this message and it is our final decision.

Sincerely,

Piano & Music Gifts & Accessories (570)
Piano accessories and music gift items
Re: Well this was unexpected [Re: afoonah] #2826902
03/14/19 07:15 PM
03/14/19 07:15 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,278
Victoria, BC
BruceD Offline
Gold Subscriber
BruceD  Offline
Gold Subscriber

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,278
Victoria, BC
Is your apartment rented? If so, have you checked the conditions of the lease that prohibit musical instruments? If it is owned, have you checked your home-owners-association's rules?

This is disappointing news.

Regards,


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Re: Well this was unexpected [Re: afoonah] #2826912
03/14/19 07:28 PM
03/14/19 07:28 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 1,110
North Vancouver
L
Lady Bird Online content
1000 Post Club Member
Lady Bird  Online Content
1000 Post Club Member
L

Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 1,110
North Vancouver
Oh afoonah I am sorry. Somehow it does not seem legal to say that you cannot even bring a piano into the building !
Perhaps a silent mode piano? You would have no doubt to explain to this landlord what that is.I haver heard of such a thing???

Re: Well this was unexpected [Re: afoonah] #2826913
03/14/19 07:29 PM
03/14/19 07:29 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,115
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content


Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,115
Originally Posted by afoonah
Unfortunate message received from landlord (despite all neighbors being agreeable):


Hi,

We have reviewed your email carefully. But I cannot agree with your plan to bring in a piano, any piano into the apartment. You are not allowed to bring in a piano into the unit.

Please heed this message and it is our final decision.

Sincerely,

Well, that would not be so much the issue except for how the landlord ended it with "it is our final decision." Upon receiving such an email, I'd probably give notice myself that when the lease runs out, I'm moving out. But that's just me.

Question though: Have you read your lease? Does it forbid pianos? Because I've never had a lease that would have forbid me a piano. I've had leases that forbid loud noises, waterbeds, modifications to the apartment or furnishings, but never any prohibitions that would include a piano.

Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Oh afoonah I am sorry. Somehow it does not seem legal to say that you cannot even bring a piano into the building !
Perhaps a silent mode piano? You would have no doubt to explain to this landlord what that is.I haver heard of such a thing???

Yes, I doubt this is legal. I mean consider this. When I was in Shanghai, a number of our friends owned furniture grands. That is grand pianos which were decorative and were not even maintained actively. Those pianos made no sounds normally. As a piece of furniture, I am just imagining how they could be banned.

Afoonah, did you tell your landlord you would not only have a piano, but you would be playing it loudly? Because usually, the landlord couldn't even do anything about noise unless it falls without a the limits of a noise ordinance.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
Re: Well this was unexpected [Re: afoonah] #2826920
03/14/19 07:38 PM
03/14/19 07:38 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 1,110
North Vancouver
L
Lady Bird Online content
1000 Post Club Member
Lady Bird  Online Content
1000 Post Club Member
L

Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 1,110
North Vancouver
Yes I do not know how you can deny children the chance to have a musical education.
It cannot be legal to be so oppressive.

Re: Well this was unexpected [Re: afoonah] #2826927
03/14/19 07:52 PM
03/14/19 07:52 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 9,191
Phoenix, Arizona
Carey Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Carey  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 9,191
Phoenix, Arizona
Assuming the OP can the landlord to understand what a digital piano is (ha ha), a good digital would be the way to go in this situation - unless the OP would prefer to move.

Early in another thread, the OP mentioned he/she had reviewed the lease and implied that it said nothing about pianos.

May be worth looking into the "legality" of the landlord's decision - as well as local noise ordinances.


Mason and Hamlin BB - 91640
Kawai K-500 Upright
Kawai CA-65 Digital
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo
Re: Well this was unexpected [Re: Lady Bird] #2826929
03/14/19 07:56 PM
03/14/19 07:56 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,278
Victoria, BC
BruceD Offline
Gold Subscriber
BruceD  Offline
Gold Subscriber

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,278
Victoria, BC
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Yes I do not know how you can deny children the chance to have a musical education.
It cannot be legal to be so oppressive.


Unless there is a violation of a human rights code (in whatever state, province or country that code exists), owners of independent apartment buildings and corporations which administer condominium and townhouse complexes, have the right to impose whatever restrictions they deem appropriate, and those restrictions are outlined in a lease, a contract or by-laws. What is not legal is for a renter to break the terms of a lease that s/he has signed. Further, it is the renter's responsibility to know the conditions of the lease/contract when signing that document; the signature on the lease binds the renter to agree to those conditions.

It the lease includes a statement indicating "no musical instruments," or "no pets," or "no children," then it is a closed issue, no questions.

Regards,


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Re: Well this was unexpected [Re: afoonah] #2826930
03/14/19 07:56 PM
03/14/19 07:56 PM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 104
oldMH Offline
Full Member
oldMH  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 104
Just ignore them and bring it in. What can they do? They have no basis for action unless the lease grants it.

Re: Well this was unexpected [Re: afoonah] #2826935
03/14/19 08:00 PM
03/14/19 08:00 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,278
Victoria, BC
BruceD Offline
Gold Subscriber
BruceD  Offline
Gold Subscriber

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,278
Victoria, BC
Originally Posted by afoonah
Unfortunate message received from landlord (despite all neighbors being agreeable):


Hi,

We have reviewed your email carefully. But I cannot agree with your plan to bring in a piano, any piano into the apartment. You are not allowed to bring in a piano into the unit.

Please heed this message and it is our final decision.

Sincerely,


Who are the "we," "I," and "our"?

Regards,


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Re: Well this was unexpected [Re: afoonah] #2826936
03/14/19 08:01 PM
03/14/19 08:01 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 67
A
afoonah Offline OP
Full Member
afoonah  Offline OP
Full Member
A

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 67
Thanks so much for kind thoughts.

There's no musical prohibition of any kind in the lease or in the building rules. I don't imagine it's legal, but I think the building management will respect her wishes and not mine with regard to moving it in, given the crane and all. If I got the piano anyway, she could simply change the terms in the next lease period and require me to move it. So in any case, it seems my only option is to move. I also don't want legal battles over sudden increase in rent, etc...

I'm not sure if, "Not any kind of piano" includes digital. I put that differentiation to her and have not received a reply.

My impulse is to move, as Tyrone said. There are tons of apartments in my neighborhood. But my girls have had recent upheaval and I'll have to think carefully about it. Maybe we can make do with the digital for another year, then move.

Re: Well this was unexpected [Re: BruceD] #2826937
03/14/19 08:01 PM
03/14/19 08:01 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,115
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content


Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,115
Originally Posted by BruceD
Unless there is a violation of a human rights code (in whatever state, province or country that code exists), owners of independent apartment buildings and corporations which administer condominium and townhouse complexes, have the right to impose whatever restrictions they deem appropriate, and those restrictions are outlined in a lease, a contract or by-laws. What is not legal is for a renter to break the terms of a lease that s/he has signed. Further, it is the renter's responsibility to know the conditions of the lease/contract when signing that document; the signature on the lease binds the renter to agree to those conditions.

It the lease includes a statement indicating "no musical instruments," or "no pets," or "no children," then it is a closed issue, no questions.

Regards,

As you seem to know something about leases, I have a hypothetical question. Let's say that the mutually signed lease does not actually prohibit anything under which a piano could be categorized. Could the landlord still do anything to prohibit it based on their subsequent, post-lease signing decision?


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
Re: Well this was unexpected [Re: afoonah] #2826938
03/14/19 08:02 PM
03/14/19 08:02 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 67
A
afoonah Offline OP
Full Member
afoonah  Offline OP
Full Member
A

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 67
RE: Bruces question, Who are the "we," "I," and "our"?

I think she means her husband.

I received a friendly email from the condo trustees offering to be entirely helpful.

So it's just the landlord acting alone. frown

Re: Well this was unexpected [Re: afoonah] #2826939
03/14/19 08:03 PM
03/14/19 08:03 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 180
M
Michael P Walsh Offline
Full Member
Michael P Walsh  Offline
Full Member
M

Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 180
A good compromise would be a digital, as mentioned earlier. With headphones it would be quieter than the TV in the corner. They aren't unduly heavy either.

Re: Well this was unexpected [Re: afoonah] #2826945
03/14/19 08:20 PM
03/14/19 08:20 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 67
A
afoonah Offline OP
Full Member
afoonah  Offline OP
Full Member
A

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 67

Under the circumstance, I feel I have to mention we are good tenants. Timely rent and considerate. This was out of left field. Quite a surprise. I was really kind of stunned.

Re: Well this was unexpected [Re: afoonah] #2826949
03/14/19 08:46 PM
03/14/19 08:46 PM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 15
Toronto, Canada
W
WeakLeftHand Offline
Junior Member
WeakLeftHand  Offline
Junior Member
W

Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 15
Toronto, Canada
In what country/city do you live?

What legal arrangement is in place? Is it a condominium where there are by-laws, but you rent from a landlord who rents you her unit? Does your landlord own the whole building and rents all units?

Just asking in case I can offer some assistance. I have experience with landlord/tenant matters, but only in my jurisdiction, of course. My jurisdiction would be Ontario, Canada. Landlord tenant law depends on jurisdiction.


Last edited by WeakLeftHand; 03/14/19 08:48 PM.
Re: Well this was unexpected [Re: afoonah] #2826950
03/14/19 08:48 PM
03/14/19 08:48 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,837
USA
B
Bob Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Bob  Offline
4000 Post Club Member
B

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,837
USA
A piano teacher client was kicked out of his apartment due to the noise. A neighbor sued my client because she could hear the piano though a common wall. When I lived in an apartment the downstairs neighbor could hear my digital pianos keys clunking though the floor.

Concrete walls and floors make for good piano neighbors...........




Re: Well this was unexpected [Re: afoonah] #2826951
03/14/19 08:49 PM
03/14/19 08:49 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 9,191
Phoenix, Arizona
Carey Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Carey  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 9,191
Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted by afoonah

Under the circumstance, I feel I have to mention we are good tenants. Timely rent and considerate. This was out of left field. Quite a surprise. I was really kind of stunned.

You mentioned a crane. Would an upright or grand piano need to be lifted into your apartment through a window?
Also - I'm still not clear - do you currently own a digital?


Mason and Hamlin BB - 91640
Kawai K-500 Upright
Kawai CA-65 Digital
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo
Re: Well this was unexpected [Re: WeakLeftHand] #2826956
03/14/19 08:57 PM
03/14/19 08:57 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 67
A
afoonah Offline OP
Full Member
afoonah  Offline OP
Full Member
A

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 67
Originally Posted by WeakLeftHand
In what country/city do you live?

What legal arrangement is in place? Is it a condominium where there are by-laws, but you rent from a landlord who rents you her unit? Does your landlord own the whole building and rents all units?

Just asking in case I can offer some assistance. I have experience with landlord/tenant matters, but only in my jurisdiction, of course. My jurisdiction would be Ontario, Canada. Landlord tenant law depends on jurisdiction.



That is so unbelievably kind! We are in Boston. I'm not sure I can take on a legal battle, but I'd be happy to hear any insights on it.

Re: Well this was unexpected [Re: Carey] #2826957
03/14/19 09:01 PM
03/14/19 09:01 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 67
A
afoonah Offline OP
Full Member
afoonah  Offline OP
Full Member
A

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 67
Originally Posted by Carey
Originally Posted by afoonah

Under the circumstance, I feel I have to mention we are good tenants. Timely rent and considerate. This was out of left field. Quite a surprise. I was really kind of stunned.

You mentioned a crane. Would an upright or grand piano need to be lifted into your apartment through a window?
Also - I'm still not clear - do you currently own a digital?




Thanks Carey,
We have a wide, concrete, building-length balcony. The piano could easily be craned-up to the balcony and wheeled in through the glass sliders. No fancy footwork really.

No, we don't have a digital now unless you include an old $60 cheapie from Best Buy years back.

Re: Well this was unexpected [Re: afoonah] #2826958
03/14/19 09:07 PM
03/14/19 09:07 PM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 15
Toronto, Canada
W
WeakLeftHand Offline
Junior Member
WeakLeftHand  Offline
Junior Member
W

Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 15
Toronto, Canada
No problem! I was just going to give you information and advice. I don’t normally suggest legal battles lol! No winners in legal battles.

But in any event, I’m not qualified to give advice regarding matters in Boston, MA. Every jurisdiction is different.

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

Shop Our Online Store!
Shop Our Store Online
Shop PianoSupplies.com

Did you know Piano World has an online store, and that it's loaded with goodies pianists and music lovers want?
Check it out and place your order.

Special Purchase!
Keyboard and Roses Piano Bench Cushion Keyboard & Roses 14"x30" piano bench cushions Regularly sold for $79 to $100, now only $39. (while supplies last)

(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Bechstein
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Piano With Humility
by Retsacnal. 03/22/19 06:43 PM
Piano in hospital
by CharlesXX. 03/22/19 06:38 PM
garritan steinway problem
by realovc22. 03/22/19 04:28 PM
QuietTime® GT-2 mini 2 Silent system.
by PianoStartsAt33. 03/22/19 03:41 PM
What's Hot!!
PIANO TEACHERS Please read this!
-------------------
European Tour for Piano Lovers
JOIN US FOR THE TOUR!
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics191,059
Posts2,809,575
Members92,847
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

Sweetwater

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2019 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.2