Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Who's Online Now
129 registered members (Animisha, anotherscott, almo82, anamnesis, Alex_G, ando, 8ude, Alex Hutor, 37 invisible), 1,842 guests, and 4 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Re: A revolutionary interpretation of the world's most famous m [Re: Vladimir Dounin] #2826880
03/14/19 06:39 PM
03/14/19 06:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 362
Alabama
A
anamnesis Online content
Full Member
anamnesis  Online Content
Full Member
A

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 362
Alabama
I'm guess I need clarification about what is new here.

The use of prosody as a tool to overcome the tyranny of the bar line/meter is something I've encountered quite frequently.

In any case, a book recommendation for those who want to further explore this:

https://www.amazon.com/Integrated-P...mp;psc=1&refRID=3BMERJ0CXCPWQJ71H44M

Piano & Music Gifts & Accessories (570)
Piano accessories and music gift items
Re: A revolutionary interpretation of the world's most famous m [Re: Vladimir Dounin] #2826946
03/14/19 08:29 PM
03/14/19 08:29 PM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 239
Taipei, Taiwan
K
Kenny Cheng Offline
Full Member
Kenny Cheng  Offline
Full Member
K

Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 239
Taipei, Taiwan
Hi Vladimir,

It seems like you are developing a unique algorithm for musical learning.

There is a guy in another “revolutionary” thread below need help on musical learning. Could you help him?

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...ng-synthesia-to-analyze.html#Post2826255

Re: A revolutionary interpretation of the world's most famous m [Re: rach3master] #2826980
03/14/19 10:41 PM
03/14/19 10:41 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
V
Vladimir Dounin Offline OP
Full Member
Vladimir Dounin  Offline OP
Full Member
V

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
Originally Posted by rach3master
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin

Maybe you read or heard about famous Russian operatic Bass Fedor Shaliapin.

Just as a boy, I read and remembered his words: "With a decent person, I am a decent person. But with boor, I am also a boor!"
I am gentle and respectful with the persons which respect me as well. However, the words of my opponent (I quote):
"The idea presented by the OP is nothing new" - are insulting.

This is not just a lie, but slander. I did not steal this method from someone, did not write off from the Internet. NOBODY ELSE IN THE WORLD , except for me, knew and knows it completely today.

And for the only fact that I want to share this method and show it in the action some boorish person accuses me of theft of this method and says publicly that "it is not new"? I do not have to tolerate this slander politely. I have the right to self-defense and use this right in an absolutely adequate form.

I am not saying here that MY method is good and did not ask anyone to praise or buy it. I ONLY offered ANY test of this method by you - specialists in musical education.

But these "experts in the musical education" do not know ANYTHING about MY method at all (by default - because I invented it, and not anyone else), but they don’t want to check it out, claiming that "this method is not new". What is wrong with your logic?

By the way, how do you manage to teach and find students for yourself if you could not distinguish between "Happy Birthday To You" and "Old McDonald"?

It looks like I need lessons from you.


You must have forgotten which forum you're posting on. This is not the Piano Teacher's subforum, so your sarcasm is misdirected, because I am not a teacher. I was merely suggesting if you had used a less provocative title, not "revolutionary", people might be more receptive to your ideas.

I've listened to your clips, and unfortunately, they're all quite amateurish. The main issue is no professional player would exaggerate the stresses as you have. Only the very last Chopin clip sounds decent because the emphasis isn't as exaggerated. When you emphasize the beats like you have to such an extent, it greatly disrupts the flow of the melodic line and sounds unnatural. It would have been much more convincing if you had used a subtler effect to showcase the differences.




1. Here is a problem: for YOU my emphasize is TOO BIG (for me as well, of course) but other listeners say that they do not hear any difference in the Intensity at all.

I have a big video on this topic (the Intensity), where I explain: how to identify and distinguish the correct and wrong Intensity.
Our ear are very unreliable in identification of Intensity for high sounds (notes). But we can hear the tiniest differences in the Intensity of very low sounds (notes).

If we can hear the difference 1-3 degrees (in the 127 Velocity = Intensity scale) in low octaves, then in high octaves we need the difference to be at least 20-50 degrees to be reliably identified.

It means that the listener will never say for sure: which note is louder in high octave, if I play the Intensity of two notes with a difference less than 15-20 degrees. Therefore "shaping the phrase", "voicing line" etc in high register are rather imaginary than real.

However this "shaping" becomes super real in a very low octave. And we can use this effect for taking the correct decision about any phrase or even couple of notes in high register. We simply bring them and play in a very low octave and play WITH THE SAME touch, like we did it in a high octave. This approach works as a magnification glass. You can choose immediately: which one of these two is WORSE (I do not say "better" - both of them are wrong, of course). But to make the right choice - this is wonderful tool. Since this test you do not need to guess: which shape is right, and which one is wrong.

This is exactly what I did with "Happy Birthday" on my clips.

2. Judging from your confident judgments regarding my two Nocturnes, you know only one language in music - modern totalitarian "new speak" (from 1984 by Orwell). However, if you ask people around you, you will definitely find that the absolute majority of the listeners would prefer "A" version.


Vladimir Dounin
Re: A revolutionary interpretation of the world's most famous m [Re: Vladimir Dounin] #2827002
03/15/19 12:31 AM
03/15/19 12:31 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 215
R
rach3master Online content
Full Member
rach3master  Online Content
Full Member
R

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 215
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin

2. Judging from your confident judgments regarding my two Nocturnes, you know only one language in music - modern totalitarian "new speak" (from 1984 by Orwell). However, if you ask people around you, you will definitely find that the absolute majority of the listeners would prefer "A" version.

Wow, you're asking for opinions, and when I give my honest one, you decide to trash it. Should I instead have said I loved both of them and they were perfect?

Just to humor you, I decided to listen again to both clips in full, as intently as I could. Now that you've admitted you WERE exaggerating on purpose, I can revise my impressions somewhat. What initially disturbed me greatly about Chopin A was the extreme emphasis on the weak beats, especially at the beginning of the piece, as I felt the melodic line was greatly distorted. However, I will say the effect was rendered more subtly as the piece progressed. It was still too much for my taste, but at least it was not as jarring as in the beginning.

In Chopin B, as I noted previously, the emphasis on the strong beats wasn't as pronounced as in Chopin A (still too much for my liking), but at least the melodic line sounded more natural to me. However, now I noticed there is far less dynamic range and rubato nuance in Chopin B than in Chopin A, which makes it sound too mundane when compared to Chopin A. Are you sure you didn't deliberately try to play Chopin A better in order to skew more positive judgment towards your hypothesis? Now I honestly can't say which one I prefer more or less.

Last edited by rach3master; 03/15/19 12:37 AM.
Re: A revolutionary interpretation of the world's most famous m [Re: Vladimir Dounin] #2827047
03/15/19 05:45 AM
03/15/19 05:45 AM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 175
S
Sidokar Offline
Full Member
Sidokar  Offline
Full Member
S

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 175
Regarding your point on the emphasis of other beats than the first one, I do no have too much issues in principle. In most of the baroque music of 17th century, the accentuation pattern is over 2 measures and for some it is over 4 and not necessarily on the first beat. This is mainly due to the fact that most baroque music was originally supporting either songs/poems or dances and therefore the pattern of accentuation is determined by the flow of verses or by the foot pattern of the dancers. So in effect your concept of putting an emphasis on other places than the first beat was already practiced a few centuries ago. I am putting aside the unmeasured polyphonic music which is a special case vs your statement. De synchronizing the accentuation of the left hand and right hand (in a moderate and specific cases) or the voice and supporting bass line was also known and practised even by Mozart. You can refer to some of his letters and written correspondance.

I listened to both Chopin A and B and I would certainly not put any of them on my preferred version list. I have listened putting aside your theory as at the end what counts is the result. For the first one, A, I find the accentuation to be awkward and counter melodic thus the result is broken and lacks fluidity. Some of the accentuation could be ok if maybe better prepared but it is often too exagerated to be really an effective demonstration. The second one is melodically more consistent but dynamically restrained and therefore the result is quite dull.

One area where I believe you are mistaken is that the question is not to decide if one must accentuate the strong of the weak beat but how Chopin wrote the melody and what is the best combination of accent, dynamics and rubato to shape the phrase. I do not think it should be the result of any predefined theory but the result of musical decisions and melodic understanding. Of course we all have our biasis and maybe entranched habits, but that is what it is; so as is really I prefer melodically B but overall I do not like any of the two.

Re: A revolutionary interpretation of the world's most famous m [Re: Kenny Cheng] #2827173
03/15/19 12:22 PM
03/15/19 12:22 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
V
Vladimir Dounin Offline OP
Full Member
Vladimir Dounin  Offline OP
Full Member
V

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
Originally Posted by Kenny Cheng
Hi Vladimir,

It seems like you are developing a unique algorithm for musical learning.

There is a guy in another “revolutionary” thread below need help on musical learning. Could you help him?

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...ng-synthesia-to-analyze.html#Post2826255



Yes, I CAN HELP everyone. I followed your link and invited this poster to take from me a public lesson (as it was described many times already).

However administrator of this site prohibited me to do so.

I quote him below:

"Self Promotion [by Ken Knapp]

Hello.

You might not be aware but there are forum rules against promoting your business on the forums. While we sometimes allow people to share things related to their business they are giving away for free, I believe your offerings are crossing the line.

While you offer your services for free, I also see you want to use the forum for those lessons..

Quote

I invite you to take on line lessons from me right HERE, on this forum. My advantages:

1. I teach FREE (it is just demonstration of my NEW for you and other teachers way to teach..

2. You get the results IMMEDIATELY in a very first 30-60 minutes.

Details in my numerous posts here and on other sites.


These forums are hosted at considerable expense and are not here to provide a means for people to conduct their business, free or otherwise. They are here for discussion and paid advertising.

Thank you!"


Vladimir Dounin
Re: A revolutionary interpretation of the world's most famous m [Re: anamnesis] #2827180
03/15/19 12:35 PM
03/15/19 12:35 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
V
Vladimir Dounin Offline OP
Full Member
Vladimir Dounin  Offline OP
Full Member
V

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
Originally Posted by anamnesis
I'm guess I need clarification about what is new here.

The use of prosody as a tool to overcome the tyranny of the bar line/meter is something I've encountered quite frequently.

In any case, a book recommendation for those who want to further explore this:

https://www.amazon.com/Integrated-P...mp;psc=1&refRID=3BMERJ0CXCPWQJ71H44M



It can be a very interesting and useful book. However, I have no time to read it. At the moment I am spending all my time and efforts just to show a PRACTICAL and EASY way to overcome typical problems in performing and teaching that other teachers can not fix and even detect them. this totalitarian, soldiery accent on count each beat "one" is a cancer tumor that killed classic performance globally and pushed masses away from great music.

100 years ago ALL musicians plaid absolutely different from nowadays and were loved by audience. Mass productions, stamping of musicians at "musical factories" changed the situation in the world dramatically. And it looks like a real drama today.

Spoken language is not effective in learning and teaching music. We have unprecedented opportunity to communicate not verbally but musically. I can not understand: why people here are so afraid of music and prefer spoken and writing language?


Vladimir Dounin
Re: A revolutionary interpretation of the world's most famous m [Re: Sidokar] #2827185
03/15/19 12:44 PM
03/15/19 12:44 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
V
Vladimir Dounin Offline OP
Full Member
Vladimir Dounin  Offline OP
Full Member
V

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
Originally Posted by Sidokar
Regarding your point on the emphasis of other beats than the first one, I do no have too much issues in principle. In most of the baroque music of 17th century, the accentuation pattern is over 2 measures and for some it is over 4 and not necessarily on the first beat. This is mainly due to the fact that most baroque music was originally supporting either songs/poems or dances and therefore the pattern of accentuation is determined by the flow of verses or by the foot pattern of the dancers. So in effect your concept of putting an emphasis on other places than the first beat was already practiced a few centuries ago. I am putting aside the unmeasured polyphonic music which is a special case vs your statement. De synchronizing the accentuation of the left hand and right hand (in a moderate and specific cases) or the voice and supporting bass line was also known and practised even by Mozart. You can refer to some of his letters and written correspondance.

I listened to both Chopin A and B and I would certainly not put any of them on my preferred version list. I have listened putting aside your theory as at the end what counts is the result. For the first one, A, I find the accentuation to be awkward and counter melodic thus the result is broken and lacks fluidity. Some of the accentuation could be ok if maybe better prepared but it is often too exagerated to be really an effective demonstration. The second one is melodically more consistent but dynamically restrained and therefore the result is quite dull.

One area where I believe you are mistaken is that the question is not to decide if one must accentuate the strong of the weak beat but how Chopin wrote the melody and what is the best combination of accent, dynamics and rubato to shape the phrase. I do not think it should be the result of any predefined theory but the result of musical decisions and melodic understanding. Of course we all have our biasis and maybe entranched habits, but that is what it is; so as is really I prefer melodically B but overall I do not like any of the two.


Probably, you are right somewhere and wrong somewhere in your writing but in general it is VERY BORING to be here, on this site in 21st century and restrict communication only to verbal eruptions.

Why don't you want to show me and other musicians YOUR OWN rendition of this Chopin's piece? How should it sound according to YOUR beliefs?

I am waiting here for your MUSICAL response. Good luck!

Vladimir


Vladimir Dounin
Re: A revolutionary interpretation of the world's most famous m [Re: rach3master] #2827193
03/15/19 01:03 PM
03/15/19 01:03 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
V
Vladimir Dounin Offline OP
Full Member
Vladimir Dounin  Offline OP
Full Member
V

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
Originally Posted by rach3master
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin

2. Judging from your confident judgments regarding my two Nocturnes, you know only one language in music - modern totalitarian "new speak" (from 1984 by Orwell). However, if you ask people around you, you will definitely find that the absolute majority of the listeners would prefer "A" version.

Wow, you're asking for opinions, and when I give my honest one, you decide to trash it. Should I instead have said I loved both of them and they were perfect?

Just to humor you, I decided to listen again to both clips in full, as intently as I could. Now that you've admitted you WERE exaggerating on purpose, I can revise my impressions somewhat. What initially disturbed me greatly about Chopin A was the extreme emphasis on the weak beats, especially at the beginning of the piece, as I felt the melodic line was greatly distorted. However, I will say the effect was rendered more subtly as the piece progressed. It was still too much for my taste, but at least it was not as jarring as in the beginning.

In Chopin B, as I noted previously, the emphasis on the strong beats wasn't as pronounced as in Chopin A (still too much for my liking), but at least the melodic line sounded more natural to me. However, now I noticed there is far less dynamic range and rubato nuance in Chopin B than in Chopin A, which makes it sound too mundane when compared to Chopin A. Are you sure you didn't deliberately try to play Chopin A better in order to skew more positive judgment towards your hypothesis? Now I honestly can't say which one I prefer more or less.


All these recordings are made with EDUCATIONAL purposes. I want to show that totalitarian, soldiery accent on each beat "ONE" is a cancer tumor that kills classic performing globally. 100 years ago musicians did not play like that and were loved by audience.


After All-USSR competition composer Faure approached me and told me: "I voted for you because you played exactly like all musicians played at the time of my youth. Thank you for this." Another time a grand dad of my friend, who was a friend of Rachmaninoff before his departure from USSR, told me the same.

I do not plan to change way of playing of other musicians but I feel a duty to give them a choice, a chance to be different from a stamped ones who are hated by 99.99% of the population of our planet.
I know it for sure because these 99.99% bought from me many thousands of home made by order recordings of not better quality than my recordings here. They could buy the same music much cheaper in the next door shop. However, the LANGUAGE of my music made the difference for them. The same I can tell about my concerting practice.

Unfortunately, Orwell's Newspeak in music is promoted extremely effectively. Because it can not "make people better" (Handel), it turns people into idiots and beasts instead.

Last edited by Vladimir Dounin; 03/15/19 01:10 PM.

Vladimir Dounin
Re: A revolutionary interpretation of the world's most famous m [Re: anamnesis] #2827198
03/15/19 01:24 PM
03/15/19 01:24 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
V
Vladimir Dounin Offline OP
Full Member
Vladimir Dounin  Offline OP
Full Member
V

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
Originally Posted by anamnesis
I'm guess I need clarification about what is new here.

The use of prosody as a tool to overcome the tyranny of the bar line/meter is something I've encountered quite frequently.

In any case, a book recommendation for those who want to further explore this:

https://www.amazon.com/Integrated-P...mp;psc=1&refRID=3BMERJ0CXCPWQJ71H44M



You have understood me correctly. Where can I watch videos and listen to audios on prosody problems in modern performing and teaching?


Vladimir Dounin
Re: A revolutionary interpretation of the world's most famous m [Re: Vladimir Dounin] #2827206
03/15/19 01:43 PM
03/15/19 01:43 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 9,276
Phoenix, Arizona
Carey Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Carey  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 9,276
Phoenix, Arizona
I see you've been thinking about this for awhile...…

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=63800.0


Mason and Hamlin BB - 91640
Kawai K-500 Upright
Kawai CA-65 Digital
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo
Re: A revolutionary interpretation of the world's most famous m [Re: Vladimir Dounin] #2827213
03/15/19 02:23 PM
03/15/19 02:23 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 175
S
Sidokar Offline
Full Member
Sidokar  Offline
Full Member
S

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 175
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin


Probably, you are right somewhere and wrong somewhere in your writing but in general it is VERY BORING to be here, on this site in 21st century and restrict communication only to verbal eruptions.

Why don't you want to show me and other musicians YOUR OWN rendition of this Chopin's piece? How should it sound according to YOUR beliefs?

I am waiting here for your MUSICAL response. Good luck!

Vladimir


Well I do not pretend to teach everybody how to play Chopin. You posted and asked for opinion. If you don't like the responses do not ask for them. Fact is that I definitely do not like your version A and frankly not that much version B either. Now if you believe you discovered the sacred graal and others are ready to follow you , good for you. But as in your previous thread you formulate opinions without any rational basis and obviously your knowlegde of music history is rather weak. All of this is just pretty poor marketing stuff. With that I will withdraw from that thread as there is no point continuing the discussion.

Re: A revolutionary interpretation of the world's most famous m [Re: Vladimir Dounin] #2827234
03/15/19 03:51 PM
03/15/19 03:51 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 400
Brittany, France
P
petebfrance Online content
Full Member
petebfrance  Online Content
Full Member
P

Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 400
Brittany, France
Tbh I found both recordings disturbing because of the RH tone and to me imbalance between the RH and LH, so the phrasing / emphasis / intensity did not register. Before continuing - no, I'm neither a real pianist (more a hack) nor a teacher. So, you may ignore if you wish. I'm not sure what you were playing it on but it didn't sound too good on my set-up (and that could be a fault of my set-up, not your playing or recording although I haven't had the problems elsewhere) but I had a quick check around the internet and found a recording of the same piece played by Valentina Lisitsa which I preferred to yours, not just because of the recording quality but because of how she played it. Now, perhaps the sight of an attractive young lady playing with evident emotion coloured my judgement, but nevertheless I think you should look at your recording technique - I really could not get past the strangeness of the overwhelming right-hand.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tV5U8kVYS88


regards
Pete
Re: A revolutionary interpretation of the world's most famous m [Re: Vladimir Dounin] #2827270
03/15/19 06:07 PM
03/15/19 06:07 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 584
Vermont
toyboy Offline
500 Post Club Member
toyboy  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 584
Vermont
Back in the late 60s and early 70s I would often find myself in a hippie's bathroom looking for something to read while I did my business, and invariably I would grab the Dr. Bronner's soap container, and yet again try to decipher the fine print of the long rant printed on the label. And I would always flush with confusion.

This post reminds me of that.

http://all-one-typography.com/Dr_Bronners-label-Peppermint-32oz.jpg


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emanuel_Bronner


"Everybody gets so much information all day long that they lose their common sense."
- Gertrude Stein
Re: A revolutionary interpretation of the world's most famous m [Re: Vladimir Dounin] #2827306
03/15/19 07:13 PM
03/15/19 07:13 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 9,276
Phoenix, Arizona
Carey Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Carey  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 9,276
Phoenix, Arizona
Perhaps the OP can tell us a little bit more about his background.


Mason and Hamlin BB - 91640
Kawai K-500 Upright
Kawai CA-65 Digital
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo
Re: A revolutionary interpretation of the world's most famous m [Re: Carey] #2827509
03/16/19 10:56 AM
03/16/19 10:56 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
V
Vladimir Dounin Offline OP
Full Member
Vladimir Dounin  Offline OP
Full Member
V

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
Originally Posted by Carey
I see you've been thinking about this for awhile...…

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=63800.0




Thanks for giving me an idea to bring this article here. I hope it can help to understand: what I am talking about?

Last edited by Vladimir Dounin; 03/16/19 10:56 AM.

Vladimir Dounin
Re: A revolutionary interpretation of the world's most famous m [Re: Carey] #2827513
03/16/19 11:06 AM
03/16/19 11:06 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
V
Vladimir Dounin Offline OP
Full Member
Vladimir Dounin  Offline OP
Full Member
V

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
Originally Posted by Carey
Perhaps the OP can tell us a little bit more about his background.


I do not like this your idea. At FORUM, as I understand the idea of forum itself, EVERYONE IS EQUAL and should be judged not by background but by his/her music (if it is the forum of musicians) and thoughts about music.

If somebody really wants to find details of background, he/she can find easily everything wanted and unwanted on Internet.


Vladimir Dounin
Re: A revolutionary interpretation of the world's most famous m [Re: petebfrance] #2827516
03/16/19 11:19 AM
03/16/19 11:19 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
V
Vladimir Dounin Offline OP
Full Member
Vladimir Dounin  Offline OP
Full Member
V

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
Originally Posted by petebfrance
Tbh I found both recordings disturbing because of the RH tone and to me imbalance between the RH and LH, so the phrasing / emphasis / intensity did not register. Before continuing - no, I'm neither a real pianist (more a hack) nor a teacher. So, you may ignore if you wish. I'm not sure what you were playing it on but it didn't sound too good on my set-up (and that could be a fault of my set-up, not your playing or recording although I haven't had the problems elsewhere) but I had a quick check around the internet and found a recording of the same piece played by Valentina Lisitsa which I preferred to yours, not just because of the recording quality but because of how she played it. Now, perhaps the sight of an attractive young lady playing with evident emotion coloured my judgement, but nevertheless I think you should look at your recording technique - I really could not get past the strangeness of the overwhelming right-hand.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tV5U8kVYS88


These recordings are not commercial issues or live recordings from a real concert. They are done with EDUCATIONAL purposes just to show to everyone the differences between two different approaches in performing. If these differences were too subtle, you and many others simply had no chance to detect them. Because each human needs a special training for ears specifically on the Intensity, if we want to analyze and manage it. If you send me any recording, I will show publicly how to work with the Intensity problems and how to solve them.

For the majority of the musicians (especially for music teachers) the INTENSITY is an absolutely unknown area.

The Intensity problems are especially dangerous for a MELODY. Therefore, in my EDUCATIONAL recordings I focused solely on melody to explain the nature of the problems. Do not be worried to much about my ability to balance RH and LH in general. But thanks for letting me know in any way. Probably, you wish me to play better sincerely.

Last edited by Vladimir Dounin; 03/16/19 11:26 AM.

Vladimir Dounin
Re: A revolutionary interpretation of the world's most famous m [Re: Vladimir Dounin] #2827528
03/16/19 11:45 AM
03/16/19 11:45 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 215
R
rach3master Online content
Full Member
rach3master  Online Content
Full Member
R

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 215
There appears to be a contradiction in your reasoning. Before you stated that when you played with your special form of INTENSITY, audiences overwhelmingly preferred that to the "totalitarian" method. However, now you're saying that you have to EXAGGERATE the differences between the two in order for us to hear it, because otherwise it is too subtle. If you're saying that we, music lovers who are actively focusing on the differences, cannot detect them, how is it that the general audience, many of whom have no interest in music and are not specifically listening for your INTENSITY, overwhelming prefers your method? I would think they would have even less ability to tell the differences between one method of playing and the other.

If you want to, then I suggest you record the same piece again two ways, WITHOUT exaggerating the differences. Play them as best as you can. Then we can judge more reasonably which one sounds better.

Last edited by rach3master; 03/16/19 11:47 AM.
Re: A revolutionary interpretation of the world's most famous m [Re: Vladimir Dounin] #2827534
03/16/19 12:02 PM
03/16/19 12:02 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 400
Brittany, France
P
petebfrance Online content
Full Member
petebfrance  Online Content
Full Member
P

Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 400
Brittany, France
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin
Originally Posted by petebfrance
Tbh I found both recordings disturbing because of the RH tone and to me imbalance between the RH and LH, so the phrasing / emphasis / intensity did not register. Before continuing - no, I'm neither a real pianist (more a hack) nor a teacher. So, you may ignore if you wish. I'm not sure what you were playing it on but it didn't sound too good on my set-up (and that could be a fault of my set-up, not your playing or recording although I haven't had the problems elsewhere) but I had a quick check around the internet and found a recording of the same piece played by Valentina Lisitsa which I preferred to yours, not just because of the recording quality but because of how she played it. Now, perhaps the sight of an attractive young lady playing with evident emotion coloured my judgement, but nevertheless I think you should look at your recording technique - I really could not get past the strangeness of the overwhelming right-hand.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tV5U8kVYS88


These recordings are not commercial issues or live recordings from a real concert. They are done with EDUCATIONAL purposes just to show to everyone the differences between two different approaches in performing. If these differences were too subtle, you and many others simply had no chance to detect them. Because each human needs a special training for ears specifically on the Intensity, if we want to analyze and manage it. If you send me any recording, I will show publicly how to work with the Intensity problems and how to solve them.

For the majority of the musicians (especially for music teachers) the INTENSITY is an absolutely unknown area.

The Intensity problems are especially dangerous for a MELODY. Therefore, in my EDUCATIONAL recordings I focused solely on melody to explain the nature of the problems. Do not be worried to much about my ability to balance RH and LH in general. But thanks for letting me know in any way. Probably, you wish me to play better sincerely.

Never mind. Like I said, I found the imbalance too disturbing - not sure your assumption that I am therefore incapable of discerning differences makes any sense in that context, but no matter because it's probably true anyway. However, I think there are certain aspects of what you are discussing that I am wholly in favour of because I do find there are a lot of soulless, mechanical and, of course, very fast (covers a multitude of sins, like lack of expression) performances around.
Anyway, I wish you all the best.


regards
Pete
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Brendan, Kreisler 

Shop Our Online Store!
Shop Our Store Online
Shop PianoSupplies.com

Did you know Piano World has an online store, and that it's loaded with goodies pianists and music lovers want?
Check it out and place your order.

Special Purchase!
Keyboard and Roses Piano Bench Cushion Keyboard & Roses 14"x30" piano bench cushions Regularly sold for $79 to $100, now only $39. (while supplies last)

(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Bechstein
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways
New Topics - Multiple Forums
OT - Longwood Gardens International Organ Competition
by Rich Galassini. 06/17/19 07:48 AM
Is there a funk feel in "So What?"
by Nahum. 06/17/19 07:47 AM
Andre Previn and Oscar Peterson playing a duet
by PianoYos. 06/17/19 06:38 AM
What's Hot!!
PIANO TEACHERS Please read this!
-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics192,568
Posts2,838,825
Members93,629
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2019 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1