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Higher-End Slab Keyboard? Above ES8 or FP90? #2826015
03/12/19 06:24 PM
03/12/19 06:24 PM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 15
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greensoybean Offline OP
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greensoybean  Offline OP
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Hi, I'm looking to buy a slab style keyboard. Something that is relatively portable, and has built in speakers for impromptu jamming, but also can hook into a better system when it's at home.

In terms of action, the GFII action in the Kawai CA98 is my favorite. Yamahas are too heavy with a too hard bottom for my enjoyment.

I tried the Kawai ES8 with Responsive Hammer III action, it was pretty good but not like GFII. The Roland FP 90 was also decent on first demo.

I'm wondering, is there anything higher up than the ES8 or FP90 that has built in speakers and action like GFII?

I see the MP11SE from Kawai, but it has no built-in speaker.

Thank you!

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Re: Higher-End Slab Keyboard? Above ES8 or FP90? [Re: greensoybean] #2826024
03/12/19 06:45 PM
03/12/19 06:45 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,827
Europe
JoeT Offline
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At some point somewhere above 30 kg you reach the weight limit for a slab with a flight case and you have to decide what you want to include: A powerful monitor speaker amplification system (CP300)? A full wooden action (MP11)? You can't have it all.


Yamaha P-515 | Kawai ES100 | Steinberg UR22 | Sony MDR-7506
Re: Higher-End Slab Keyboard? Above ES8 or FP90? [Re: greensoybean] #2826115
03/12/19 11:45 PM
03/12/19 11:45 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,546
Pennsylvania
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dmd Offline
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Personally, I do not think you can do better than the Kawai ES8 for portability, action and with built-in speakers.


Don

Kawai MP11SE, Edifier R1850DB Active Bookshelf Speakers, Yamaha HS8S Powered Subwoofer, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq and numerous other VSTs
Re: Higher-End Slab Keyboard? Above ES8 or FP90? [Re: greensoybean] #2826133
03/13/19 01:13 AM
03/13/19 01:13 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,778
Dublin
johnstaf Online crying
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I think the action in the FP-90 is the best digital action (apart from the Nuvus NV10 or Avantgrand). The speakers are ok, but the in-built sounds are divisive. Some people hate them. I don't really use them or the speakers.

Last edited by johnstaf; 03/13/19 01:13 AM.
Re: Higher-End Slab Keyboard? Above ES8 or FP90? [Re: greensoybean] #2826145
03/13/19 02:09 AM
03/13/19 02:09 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,778
Dublin
johnstaf Online crying
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In the interest of balance, I should probably add that some people don't like the Roland actions at all.

Re: Higher-End Slab Keyboard? Above ES8 or FP90? [Re: greensoybean] #2826162
03/13/19 03:50 AM
03/13/19 03:50 AM
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MrKaramba Offline
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FP90 is better piano than ES8 and its action is far closer to GFII than action from ES8, and its significant step up from ES8. For sound it's personal thing, for me it's.not ideal, but neither the ES8 is, and it has also it's weak points.

If you like the sound buy FP90

Re: Higher-End Slab Keyboard? Above ES8 or FP90? [Re: greensoybean] #2826230
03/13/19 09:59 AM
03/13/19 09:59 AM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 15
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greensoybean Offline OP
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Thank you all for the feedback. I thought the sound on the FP90 was overall good, although this was just from a short 15 minute test in store. It sounds like the FP90 or the ES8 are the highest level options for me so I will continue to consider these two options.

Are there any resources on setting up a home speaker system to support them, or should I make a new post for that? I know almost nothing about electronics.

Re: Higher-End Slab Keyboard? Above ES8 or FP90? [Re: greensoybean] #2826250
03/13/19 10:38 AM
03/13/19 10:38 AM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 54
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lvercaut Offline
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I think Fp-90 sounds fantastic , watch and listen this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3XFMbidu3M and this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTvgT3POF_A

Re: Higher-End Slab Keyboard? Above ES8 or FP90? [Re: lvercaut] #2826253
03/13/19 10:49 AM
03/13/19 10:49 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,664
Sofia, Bulgaria
CyberGene Online content
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CyberGene  Online Content
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Originally Posted by lvercaut
I think Fp-90 sounds fantastic , watch and listen this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3XFMbidu3M and this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTvgT3POF_A

Each to their own. To my ears the sound is nasal and synthetic, it's the worst piano sound Roland has offered in decades IMO. The kid plays great though smile


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Higher-End Slab Keyboard? Above ES8 or FP90? [Re: CyberGene] #2826288
03/13/19 12:18 PM
03/13/19 12:18 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 465
UK
jamiecw Offline
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
To my ears the sound is nasal and synthetic, it's the worst piano sound Roland has offered in decades IMO. The kid plays great though smile

Maybe so...but the response in terms of playability/dynamics one gets from Roland's Supernatural Modelling Engine along with the PHA50 action is second to none...it's the price one has to pay vs sampling... (edit: in that price range)

Last edited by jamiecw; 03/13/19 12:19 PM.
Re: Higher-End Slab Keyboard? Above ES8 or FP90? [Re: dmd] #2826289
03/13/19 12:22 PM
03/13/19 12:22 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 465
UK
jamiecw Offline
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Originally Posted by dmd
Personally, I do not think you can do better than the Kawai ES8 for portability, action and with built-in speakers.


LOL - a templated copy/paste response - you don't work for Kawai do you Don? smile

Re: Higher-End Slab Keyboard? Above ES8 or FP90? [Re: greensoybean] #2826345
03/13/19 02:46 PM
03/13/19 02:46 PM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 15
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greensoybean Offline OP
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I didn't mean for this to turn into a FP90 vs ES8 debate. They're both fine keyboards.

My question was whether there was something one step higher than this tier of keyboards, but it seems like there isn't.

I'll probably try each the FP90 and ES8 again and choose whichever one feels the best when I play.

Re: Higher-End Slab Keyboard? Above ES8 or FP90? [Re: greensoybean] #2826375
03/13/19 03:18 PM
03/13/19 03:18 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 465
UK
jamiecw Offline
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The next tier would probably be the MP11SE but only on the action front in that you will get wooden keys and a much longer key length with a better pivot allowing easier playability towards the back of the keys. Sound wise it’s debatable as that’s something your ears will tell you.

Re: Higher-End Slab Keyboard? Above ES8 or FP90? [Re: jamiecw] #2826444
03/13/19 04:46 PM
03/13/19 04:46 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,546
Pennsylvania
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dmd Offline
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Pennsylvania
Originally Posted by jamiecw
Originally Posted by dmd
Personally, I do not think you can do better than the Kawai ES8 for portability, action and with built-in speakers.


LOL - a templated copy/paste response - you don't work for Kawai do you Don? smile


Not an employee …. just a fan.

I have owned 2 ES8s. I previously owned a CA98 and now I own the MP11SE.

I think they are great instruments.


Don

Kawai MP11SE, Edifier R1850DB Active Bookshelf Speakers, Yamaha HS8S Powered Subwoofer, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq and numerous other VSTs
Re: Higher-End Slab Keyboard? Above ES8 or FP90? [Re: greensoybean] #2826495
03/13/19 06:57 PM
03/13/19 06:57 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
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PossumES8Krome61 Offline
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I have an ES8- I prefer the action to the FP90 which I found heavier- but like the speakers and sounds of the ROland as well.
Please note you can get an external speaker such as an Electrovoice and use it in conjunction with the regular piano spekaers


Kawai Es8
Korg Krome 61
Yamaha P125
Re: Higher-End Slab Keyboard? Above ES8 or FP90? [Re: greensoybean] #2826622
03/14/19 05:26 AM
03/14/19 05:26 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,350
Cheshire, United Kingdom
Doug M. Online content
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Doug M.  Online Content
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Cheshire, United Kingdom
Originally Posted by greensoybean
Hi, I'm looking to buy a slab style keyboard. Something that is relatively portable, and has built in speakers for impromptu jamming, but also can hook into a better system when it's at home.

In terms of action, the GFII action in the Kawai CA98 is my favorite. Yamahas are too heavy with a too hard bottom for my enjoyment.

I tried the Kawai ES8 with Responsive Hammer III action, it was pretty good but not like GFII. The Roland FP 90 was also decent on first demo.

I'm wondering, is there anything higher up than the ES8 or FP90 that has built in speakers and action like GFII?

I see the MP11SE from Kawai, but it has no built-in speaker.

Thank you!



Short answer: no, none.
The best action in a portable slab are the ES8 and FP90 actions---there are nothing currently at higher spec with onboard speakers.
The only better actions in slab format are the MP11/SE and the VPC1, neither of which come with speakers.

If you don't mind me asking: in jamming sessions with a band, do you really care that much about the piano action? Will you be playing a lot of prominent solo piano that requires a top action to get best control, or is a piano rock session?

Most gigging boards don't come with a great action because there is no call for it. For instance, the CP88 only has the NWX action despite it being Yamaha's latest board. The Nord Piano 4 has a modified Fatar action. The Kurzweil boards (professional giggers often play Kurzweil) have Fatar actions and the Korg Grandstage has only the RHIII korg action (which is really old tech now)---all these boards a designed for gigging.

The MP7SE is a good gigging board with a better action than the above (RHIII like the ES8)---easily enough for non-solo stuff, and is a lot more powerful with a better user interface for gigging than the ES8. Another is the RD2000 from Roland. I think if one is playing in a Jazz group, maybe an MP11 is worth it, but then, for that you might be good with monitors to get the kind of control over the sound that does it justice.

Kind regards,

Doug.

Last edited by Doug M.; 03/14/19 05:27 AM.

Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7; Past - Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: Higher-End Slab Keyboard? Above ES8 or FP90? [Re: greensoybean] #2826629
03/14/19 05:55 AM
03/14/19 05:55 AM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,164
Sydney, Australia
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sullivang Offline
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Just a nit, but the CP88 actually has the NW-GH action, which I *believe* is equivalent to the NWX, minus the escapement feel. Also, what action from Yamaha is supposed to be better than NWX? I thought it was the top.

Greg.

Re: Higher-End Slab Keyboard? Above ES8 or FP90? [Re: sullivang] #2826638
03/14/19 06:15 AM
03/14/19 06:15 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,350
Cheshire, United Kingdom
Doug M. Online content
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Doug M.  Online Content
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Originally Posted by sullivang
Just a nit, but the CP88 actually has the NW-GH action, which I *believe* is equivalent to the NWX, minus the escapement feel. Also, what action from Yamaha is supposed to be better than NWX? I thought it was the top.

Greg.


Thanks Greg, the NW-GH is what I meant to say if I had remembered.


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7; Past - Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: Higher-End Slab Keyboard? Above ES8 or FP90? [Re: sullivang] #2826667
03/14/19 08:34 AM
03/14/19 08:34 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,664
Sofia, Bulgaria
CyberGene Online content
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CyberGene  Online Content
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Originally Posted by sullivang
Also, what action from Yamaha is supposed to be better than NWX? I thought it was the top.


Yamaha GrandTouch in CLP-675 and above


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Higher-End Slab Keyboard? Above ES8 or FP90? [Re: greensoybean] #2826684
03/14/19 09:43 AM
03/14/19 09:43 AM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,164
Sydney, Australia
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sullivang Offline
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Oh right - so there's a longer pivot version of the folded GH3 style action. Thanks. Bit confusing because "GranTouch" is their old hybrid action!

Greg

Last edited by sullivang; 03/14/19 09:43 AM.
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