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Originally Posted by johnstaf
Originally Posted by Jitin
I am the OP of this thread , and my main question was getting a digital with grand action or acoustic upright?

Why one is preferable if this will be your last piano o!??!!



As you can see from the responses, it's a question of your priorities. Perhaps everyone would like a concert grand and their own concert hall to play it in.



Of course! And that’s another lovely thing about my new DP (which I will review in comparison with my upright when I’ve had a few days with both). I have the choice of umpteen different concert grands to imagine I’m playing. That’s the “toy” side of it, it wasn’t my main reason for acquiring it, but what a toy!


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Originally Posted by petebfrance
Originally Posted by Colin Miles
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
who I guess was only using an exhibition technique blush Going to try it with the proper 3 finger technique soon! smile


Look at the fingering for Chopin's Grand Valse Op 18 - that's the first one. Lots of repeated notes.

Sorry, can't resist:

she plays it so well....
actually one of my favourite pieces but I don't play it as fast or as well as this. Repeated notes here require expression.


She really does play it so well!



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The last thread of vertical piano deficiencies soon slowed down when a Youtube showed the same pianist playing LA Campanella
on a street piano .
Bravo Lisitsa!

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I find it a bit amusing that some people have such need to prove that there's no reason to get a grand piano, a digital or an upright is just as good. However I think one should have had all three options at home to have an informed opinion. Even if a lot depends on the properties of individual instruments and also one's preference of music and playing style. I have a higher priced new upright, a cheap old grand and a rather good digital. After many years of playing there's no question that the grand wins this battle easily...

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Originally Posted by outo
I find it a bit amusing that some people have such need to prove that there's no reason to get a grand piano, a digital or an upright is just as good. However I think one should have had all three options at home to have an informed opinion. Even if a lot depends on the properties of individual instruments and also one's preference of music and playing style. I have a higher priced new upright, a cheap old grand and a rather good digital. After many years of playing there's no question that the grand wins this battle easily...

That's fine outdo but not everyone can afford all those pianos .
There is no question that a good grand is great .The question was asked can one on an upright play repeated.legato chords without the
pedal -I discovered yes on my upright it is easy .You can depress the chord again before the notes fully ascend .Say again YES !

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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Originally Posted by outo
I find it a bit amusing that some people have such need to prove that there's no reason to get a grand piano, a digital or an upright is just as good. However I think one should have had all three options at home to have an informed opinion. Even if a lot depends on the properties of individual instruments and also one's preference of music and playing style. I have a higher priced new upright, a cheap old grand and a rather good digital. After many years of playing there's no question that the grand wins this battle easily...

That's fine outdo but not everyone can afford all those pianos .
There is no question that a good grand is great .The question was asked can one on an upright play repeated.legato chords without the
pedal -I discovered yes on my upright it is easy .You can depress the chord again before the notes fully ascend .Say again YES !


There will always be considerations about space and money. I know this very well living in an apartment and all my pianos were bought on credit smile

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Originally Posted by outo
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Originally Posted by outo
I find it a bit amusing that some people have such need to prove that there's no reason to get a grand piano, a digital or an upright is just as good. However I think one should have had all three options at home to have an informed opinion. Even if a lot depends on the properties of individual instruments and also one's preference of music and playing style. I have a higher priced new upright, a cheap old grand and a rather good digital. After many years of playing there's no question that the grand wins this battle easily...

That's fine outdo but not everyone can afford all those pianos .
There is no question that a good grand is great .The question was asked can one on an upright play repeated.legato chords without the
pedal -I discovered yes on my upright it is easy .You can depress the chord again before the notes fully ascend .Say again YES !


There will always be considerations about space and money. I know this very well living in an apartment and all my pianos were bought on credit smile

Yes I understand and ,well these instruments are costly and as you say take up space .I am glad that your grand is fine ,and you have a
a lovely upright.

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Some people upgrade to an upright from a grand. There's more to a piano than just the type of action after all. A phenomenal upright is a phenomenal piano. A mediocre grand is a mediocre one.

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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Originally Posted by outo
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Originally Posted by outo
I find it a bit amusing that some people have such need to prove that there's no reason to get a grand piano, a digital or an upright is just as good. However I think one should have had all three options at home to have an informed opinion. Even if a lot depends on the properties of individual instruments and also one's preference of music and playing style. I have a higher priced new upright, a cheap old grand and a rather good digital. After many years of playing there's no question that the grand wins this battle easily...

That's fine outdo but not everyone can afford all those pianos .
There is no question that a good grand is great .The question was asked can one on an upright play repeated.legato chords without the
pedal -I discovered yes on my upright it is easy .You can depress the chord again before the notes fully ascend .Say again YES !


There will always be considerations about space and money. I know this very well living in an apartment and all my pianos were bought on credit smile

Yes I understand and ,well these instruments are costly and as you say take up space .I am glad that your grand is fine ,and you have a
a lovely upright.

What type of grand do you have outdo?

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outo has a Blüthner grand if I remember correctly. The profile says
Quote

Yamaha, Roland, Bluthner

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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Originally Posted by outo
I find it a bit amusing that some people have such need to prove that there's no reason to get a grand piano, a digital or an upright is just as good. However I think one should have had all three options at home to have an informed opinion. Even if a lot depends on the properties of individual instruments and also one's preference of music and playing style. I have a higher priced new upright, a cheap old grand and a rather good digital. After many years of playing there's no question that the grand wins this battle easily...

That's fine outdo but not everyone can afford all those pianos .
There is no question that a good grand is great .The question was asked can one on an upright play repeated.legato chords without the
pedal -I discovered yes on my upright it is easy .You can depress the chord again before the notes fully ascend .Say again YES !


Mine too. But it should be clear to everyone by now (I hope) that there are different quality upright pianos just as there are different quality grand pianos and different quality digital pianos. Fairly obviously there’s a big difference between finding a way to play advanced (or even not so advanced) pieces on a bad piano - as some have rightly pointed out any half decent pianist can do that - and having to permanently change how one plays to accommodate a bad piano that one happens to own. Grands can be very bad too!

Surely the obvious conclusion to draw is that if one is serious about playing then a good piano is necessary which will accommodate normal technique, but that could be an upright, grand or digital according to circumstances.


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@outo, the point I was trying to make was not that a grand is not better than an upright, it is that the negative sentiment surrounding uprights is not based on relevant facts.
When one has no constraints in space, sound (e.g. no complaining neighbors) and budget an obvious choice would be a grand piano. The level of control in a grand piano is more based on the length of the keys (length of the lever) by the way than on letoff. That's a major part of the reason why Schimmel puts long keys in smaller grands.

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Originally Posted by WimPiano
The level of control in a grand piano is more based on the length of the keys (length of the lever) by the way than on letoff. That's a major part of the reason why Schimmel puts long keys in smaller grands.


This isn't really the case. Both sides of the "seesaw" are longer, so you still have a key that descends by roughly 10mm to raise a hammer by roughly 45mm. The advantage of longer keys is that the playable area is a smaller proportion of the lever, so the difference in leverage between the back and front of the key is not as great as it is with shorter keys. Piano companies who try to present this as anything else are wrong. Not all of them do BTW.



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My two cents.
When you want to get a piano, you have several options.
- Digital piano
- Digital piano with real action (hybrid digital, like Yamaha AvantGrand or Kawai Novus)
- Upright piano
- Upright piano with silent system (hybrid upright)
- Grand piano
- Grand piano with silent system (hybrid grand)
Hybrid uprights and grands can even go one step further and have digital sound production without earphones; like in the Yamaha TransAcoustic or Blüthner e-volution. But in my opinion these are just special cases of hybrid uprights or grands.

Each has advantages and disadvantages. And in the end, it depends on your preference.
Here are some advantages and disadvantages I can think of. I have played on digitals, uprights and grands, and own a grand piano with silent system.

Advantages of digitals and uprights: They don't take much space.
Advantage of digitals: They are cheaper than acoustic instruments and don't require tuning.
Advantages of digitals and hybrids: You can play in silent mode, without annoying the neighbors. Plus, you can make digital recordings.
Advantages of acoustics (both upright and grand): You know how loud the piano is supposed to sound; and are not tempted to set the loudspeakers at too weak a volume, and compensate by playing extra hard (I know this from personal experience).
Advantages of hybrid digitals and grands: The action. Other posters already mentioned it; gravity works in your favour.

Possible disadvantage of hybrid acoustics: Some players say that building a silent system in an acoustic piano affects the action in a negative way. Personally, I didn't notice; but then, maybe this is just me. Just like there are people who say that they don't notice a significant difference between a grand and upright action.
Disadvantage of grands: They are expensive and take a lot of place. And they are LOUD. I noticed after getting my Yamaha C2 SG that I underestimated its power a bit. When I play it can be heard in the whole house. And I live in an apartment in a 7-floor house.

About the beauty of sound... This is a matter of personal taste. A well-tuned big acoustic with good soundboard will probably sound better than any digital; but as soon as it gets out of tune...
A small upright or grand might sound a bit strained and with a weak bass; possibly less convincing than a good digital with good loudspeakers.

But in the end: Just try out lots of pianos, and pick the one you like best.


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My other Yamaha is an XMAX 300.
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BTW WimPiano, I didn't mean to contradict what you said. I was referring to the explanation given by piano companies that misses the point. More uniform leverage gives more uniform key travel, which allows more control at the back of the key, which is better control overall. Some good uprights have fairly long keys as well.

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Originally Posted by Rickster
Originally Posted by johnstaf
As you can see from the responses, it's a question of your priorities. Perhaps everyone would like a concert grand and their own concert hall to play it in.
Very true. smile

Reminds me of an old saying my mom would use on occasion; "you can't drink Champagne on beer money". smile

Rick

It wasn't till I retired that I could afford a good grand - yes I suppose I could have earlier, but financially it was the right time. And besides, I've now got time to enjoy it which I didn't as much while I was working long hours.


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Originally Posted by backto_study_piano
It wasn't till I retired that I could afford a good grand - yes I suppose I could have earlier, but financially it was the right time. And besides, I've now got time to enjoy it which I didn't as much while I was working long hours.
Sounds like you can afford the Champagne now. Or, have your cake and eat it too... thumb

Getting back on point, I think most people buy a piano they can afford and have room for. Some buy a piano they really can't afford, or have the room for. I've seen individuals who get themselves in financial distress. It is no way to live. A piano is a luxury item and not really a necessity. If you can afford the expensive wants and toys, that is a blessing. If you can't, get what you can afford. Life would be more pleasant and less stressful...

All the best!

Rick


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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by Iaroslav Vasiliev
In my opinion the main advantage of the grand piano's action is that it gives much more control when playing p and pp, mainly because of it's escapement mechanism.
Why do you think the escapement mechanism gives more control for soft playing?

Because on a grand piano a little bump partway down the keystroke can be felt.

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Originally Posted by Skjalg
outo has a Blüthner grand if I remember correctly. The profile says
Quote

Yamaha, Roland, Bluthner


Yes, it is a Bluthner grand from the Soviet era, around 1950. It's less than 160 cm long so a baby grand. I am very pleased with it and my playing has improved a lot. My upright is a Yamaha U1 silent.

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Originally Posted by patH
A well-tuned big acoustic with good soundboard will probably sound better than any digital; but as soon as it gets out of tune...

What is personally amazing to me is that obviously people not only get used to pianos being out-of-tune, among the digital VST, there seems to be a move to desiring features to detune the virtual strings for a more "realistic" sound! shocked And here I was thinking having a perfectly tuned instrument is a goal to aspire to - well for some, it's not!


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