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Re: Liszt really sight-read Chopins etudes..? [Re: Tararex] #2017620 01/20/13 12:57 AM
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Tararex, not sure what your post above was meant to convey. If it was educational, well I knew all that. I was simply pointing out that William Mason and Otis Boise (both Americans and presumably writing in English) were so remarkably similar in their reports, even using almost the same words. ('running commentary' vs 'running comments')

I don't doubt for a moment that each of them witnessed a life-changing event, I was just curious about the coincidence of the wording.


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Re: Liszt really sight-read Chopins etudes..? [Re: davaofthekeys] #2017628 01/20/13 01:38 AM
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Wanna talk about great sight readers? Talk about John Ogdon. You know the Brahms 2nd concerto story, right?

Re: Liszt really sight-read Chopins etudes..? [Re: davaofthekeys] #2017629 01/20/13 01:39 AM
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So I said to Franz, I said ... what’s all this malarkey about playing a romping ditty by Fred off-the-cuff ... makes us amachurs look kind of silly ...
so, if you don’t mind ... get back to your reverent prayerful vocation ... and please use this fully paid-for (well nearly) train ticket to Timbuktu .

Yours faithfully,
Peter Sellers

Re: Liszt really sight-read Chopins etudes..? [Re: Orange Soda King] #2017639 01/20/13 02:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Orange Soda King
Wanna talk about great sight readers? Talk about John Ogdon. You know the Brahms 2nd concerto story, right?

You sure, OSK? I thought it was the D minor. crazy

Yes, Ogdon was a legendary sight reader, but look at the amount of 20th century British piano concertos he championed! Staggering, he must have learned them overnight.


Jason
Re: Liszt really sight-read Chopins etudes..? [Re: btb] #2017640 01/20/13 02:06 AM
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Originally Posted by btb
Yours faithfully,
Peter Sellers

Or perhaps Peter Sellars?


Jason
Re: Liszt really sight-read Chopins etudes..? [Re: davaofthekeys] #2017648 01/20/13 02:29 AM
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Sorry about that fan ... the boo-boo has been corrected ... but later re-corrected to the first copy.

Must just tell that my son has given me access to the Goon show legacy ... my latest is the "The Phantom head-shaver of Brighton" with Spike Milliagan, Peter Sellars and Harry Seacombe ... with rivetting start including the advisory of an "arab stench-recuperating centre in Stoke-Poges ... the play is considered unsuitable for people".

However, on the Goon Show site, they spell Peter's surname SELLERS ... so what about it?





Re: Liszt really sight-read Chopins etudes..? [Re: argerichfan] #2017660 01/20/13 03:49 AM
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Originally Posted by argerichfan
Tararex, not sure what your post above was meant to convey. If it was educational, well I knew all that. I was simply pointing out that William Mason and Otis Boise (both Americans and presumably writing in English) were so remarkably similar in their reports, even using almost the same words. ('running commentary' vs 'running comments')

I don't doubt for a moment that each of them witnessed a life-changing event, I was just curious about the coincidence of the wording.


I'm not following your logic. Two people describe the same feat accomplished at different times. Wouldn't it be suspicious if the accounts didn't sound the same?

"No features of the workmanship, contrapuntal or instrumental, escaped his notice, and he made running comments without interrupting his progress."

"Not only did he perform the scherzo in a masterly fashion, however, but also kept up a running commentary on the music—much to Brahms' amazement and delight."

Is there another way of describing the witness of mad sight reading skills while simultaneously commenting to others? If you were to ask 100 people of standard writing skill to describe a specific action accomplished by a specific person, even if repeated at 100 different times and locations, how could they not be "coincidental"?

That sameness of description of the observed skills strengthens the case that the event was as described.



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Re: Liszt really sight-read Chopins etudes..? [Re: btb] #2017805 01/20/13 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by btb
Sorry about that fan ... the boo-boo has been corrected ... but later re-corrected to the first copy.
[...]
However, on the Goon Show site, they spell Peter's surname SELLERS ... so what about it?


Peter Sellers ≠ Peter Sellars.

The former: a British comedian/actor, the latter an American theatre director. Hence the argerichfan's suggested (tongue-in-cheek?) reference to the latter.


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Re: Liszt really sight-read Chopins etudes..? [Re: BruceD] #2017829 01/20/13 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by BruceD
[/quote]

Peter Sellers ≠ Peter Sellars.

How did you get that "does not equal" sign in there?

And, OSK, I'm not familiar with the John Ogdon story. Care to share (and become a member of the 5000 post club)?


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Re: Liszt really sight-read Chopins etudes..? [Re: Arghhh] #2017839 01/20/13 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Arghhh
How did you get that "does not equal" sign in there?

I wondered too.
How I'd try to do it: Find it on google and copy/paste it. Let's see if that works:

≠

Bingo!!

But I suspect Bruce has a better way.

BTW I didn't know the Ogdon story either. I don't know if it's well known. Except among those who know it. grin

Re: Liszt really sight-read Chopins etudes..? [Re: davaofthekeys] #2017843 01/20/13 01:58 PM
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I don't know the Ogdon story, but there are credible accounts of Liszt's feats as well as those of Saint-Saens that have led to them being thought of as two of the greatest (if not the greatest) sight-readers ever.

Re: Liszt really sight-read Chopins etudes..? [Re: Mark_C] #2017895 01/20/13 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark_C
Originally Posted by Arghhh
How did you get that "does not equal" sign in there?

I wondered too.
How I'd try to do it: Find it on google and copy/paste it. Let's see if that works:

≠

Bingo!!

But I suspect Bruce has a better way.
[...]


Not necessarily a "better" way, just a different one. I copy and paste from a character map which is pinned to my task bar. Same idea, except that I don't have to go to Google to find it.

Regards,


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Re: Liszt really sight-read Chopins etudes..? [Re: Tararex] #2018008 01/20/13 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Tararex

That sameness of description of the observed skills strengthens the case that the event was as described.

You have a valid point, no argument there, but was still curious about the similarity, not much else.


Jason
Re: Liszt really sight-read Chopins etudes..? [Re: sophial] #2018018 01/20/13 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by sophial
I don't know the Ogdon story, but there are credible accounts of Liszt's feats as well as those of Saint-Saens that have led to them being thought of as two of the greatest (if not the greatest) sight-readers ever.

Indeed, but Brenda Lucas in her bio of her late husband, reports sight reading abilities that may very well be on the level of S-S or Liszt.

Full disclosure, this bio has been highly criticized by one particular member -who personally knew Ogdon- on the Radio 3 message board. There is reportedly a new bio in the works, though I don't think that Ogdon's talent as a sight reader or as a pianist who could learn instantly will be questioned.


Jason
Re: Liszt really sight-read Chopins etudes..? [Re: argerichfan] #2018039 01/20/13 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by argerichfan
Originally Posted by sophial
I don't know the Ogdon story, but there are credible accounts of Liszt's feats as well as those of Saint-Saens that have led to them being thought of as two of the greatest (if not the greatest) sight-readers ever.

Indeed, but Brenda Lucas in her bio of her late husband, reports sight reading abilities that may very well be on the level of S-S or Liszt.

Full disclosure, this bio has been highly criticized by one particular member -who personally knew Ogdon- on the Radio 3 message board. There is reportedly a new bio in the works, though I don't think that Ogdon's talent as a sight reader or as a pianist who could learn instantly will be questioned.
That bio is quite depressing because there's much description of Ogdon's mental illness.

Re: Liszt really sight-read Chopins etudes..? [Re: pianoloverus] #2018056 01/20/13 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
That bio is quite depressing because there's much description of Ogdon's mental illness.

It was horrible reading, worse because Ogdon's diabetes was undiagnosed until too late.


Jason
Re: Liszt really sight-read Chopins etudes..? [Re: davaofthekeys] #2018100 01/21/13 12:41 AM
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Thanks BruceD for the explanation (Sellars: American Theatre Director)... I can just imagine that all the chaps will now be using that cunning "≠" symbol to disagree ... saves a lot of unnecessary woids.


Re: Liszt really sight-read Chopins etudes..? [Re: btb] #2018104 01/21/13 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted by btb
Thanks BruceD for the explanation (Sellars: American Theatre Director)... I can just imagine that all the chaps will now be using that cunning "≠" symbol to disagree ... saves a lot of unnecessary woids.

Yeah, except he didn't use it to mean disagree. He used the "doesn't equal" sign to mean, doesn't equal. grin


Here's what people should use for "disagree":

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Re: Liszt really sight-read Chopins etudes..? [Re: davaofthekeys] #2018106 01/21/13 12:57 AM
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Thanks Mark C ... I need a 2nd morning cup of tea to cotton on properly to the fine print ... but won't disagree with you too much ... so you can take your
head-shaking sign down.

Re: Liszt really sight-read Chopins etudes..? [Re: pianoloverus] #2825370 03/11/19 10:57 AM
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Very sad story, that of Ogdon, he was a outstanding pianist

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