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Re: Why do people not favor uprights?? [Re: WimPiano] #2825228
03/11/19 06:31 AM
03/11/19 06:31 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 4,784
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content


Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 4,784
Originally Posted by WimPiano
that most people cannot even accomplish when requested to do as an exercize let alone when playing music on their own level

Probably that's because no one has taught those people that fast repetition of a single key must be done with two fingers, which although I am a mere beginner, Youtube has already taught me wink


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
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Re: Why do people not favor uprights?? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2825238
03/11/19 07:03 AM
03/11/19 07:03 AM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 733
South Wales
C
Colin Miles Offline
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Colin Miles  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 733
South Wales
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by WimPiano
that most people cannot even accomplish when requested to do as an exercize let alone when playing music on their own level

Probably that's because no one has taught those people that fast repetition of a single key must be done with two fingers, which although I am a mere beginner, Youtube has already taught me wink

Surely it should be three fingers not two!


Roland LX7

South Wales, UK
Re: Why do people not favor uprights?? [Re: Colin Miles] #2825244
03/11/19 07:28 AM
03/11/19 07:28 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 4,784
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content


Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 4,784
Originally Posted by Colin Miles
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by WimPiano
that most people cannot even accomplish when requested to do as an exercize let alone when playing music on their own level

Probably that's because no one has taught those people that fast repetition of a single key must be done with two fingers, which although I am a mere beginner, Youtube has already taught me wink

Surely it should be three fingers not two!

Can it be done with three? You should make a Youtube video with fast repetition with three fingers. I've only seen the videos showing how two finger are needed for fast repetitions smile I can't even picture how three fingers would work. Seems like it would be awfully crowded unless you had very thin fingers! confused


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Why do people not favor uprights?? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2825257
03/11/19 07:58 AM
03/11/19 07:58 AM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 400
Brittany, France
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petebfrance Offline
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Joined: Oct 2018
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Brittany, France
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by Colin Miles
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by WimPiano
that most people cannot even accomplish when requested to do as an exercize let alone when playing music on their own level

Probably that's because no one has taught those people that fast repetition of a single key must be done with two fingers, which although I am a mere beginner, Youtube has already taught me wink

Surely it should be three fingers not two!

Can it be done with three? You should make a Youtube video with fast repetition with three fingers. I've only seen the videos showing how two finger are needed for fast repetitions smile I can't even picture how three fingers would work. Seems like it would be awfully crowded unless you had very thin fingers! confused


Three seems to be fairly standard - even as a bad repeated note player I use one (shame on me) or three (ah, that's better):

It would be interesting to see the two finger version.
Oh, and he says it won't work on an upright (here we go) which is what I've been using, but of course I don't play that fast.


regards
Pete
Re: Why do people not favor uprights?? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2825261
03/11/19 08:05 AM
03/11/19 08:05 AM
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Posts: 733
South Wales
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Colin Miles Offline
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Colin Miles  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2017
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South Wales
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by Colin Miles
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by WimPiano
that most people cannot even accomplish when requested to do as an exercize let alone when playing music on their own level

Probably that's because no one has taught those people that fast repetition of a single key must be done with two fingers, which although I am a mere beginner, Youtube has already taught me wink

Surely it should be three fingers not two!

Can it be done with three? You should make a Youtube video with fast repetition with three fingers. I've only seen the videos showing how two finger are needed for fast repetitions smile I can't even picture how three fingers would work. Seems like it would be awfully crowded unless you had very thin fingers! confused

Three fingers , 3,2,1 is the 'standard' way - have a look at the fingering for Fur Elise.


Roland LX7

South Wales, UK
Re: Why do people not favor uprights?? [Re: Jitin] #2825262
03/11/19 08:07 AM
03/11/19 08:07 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,182
The Netherlands
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WimPiano Offline
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,182
The Netherlands
@Tyrone Slothrop You just demonstrated what I meant to say. A completely useless technique when it comes to making music. Please do me the repeated notes in pianissimo using that technique.. O yes, such a metric does well on a review site but how useful is it really? The same reason that absolutely useless camera's always score high on review sites. O yeah you might need fast repeated notes in Liszts Hungarian rhapsodies but I bet you that 99% of the people discussing this nonsense can't even play a bar of those pieces in appropriate tempo and that is not due to the limitations of their piano.

With regards to the video: of course it works on an upright, just not on a badly designed, badly regulated and worn out upright. With regards to the fingering in Für Elise, that is utter nonsense, you should never play it so fast as to require said technique for speed.

Last edited by WimPiano; 03/11/19 08:11 AM.
Re: Why do people not favor uprights?? [Re: WimPiano] #2825268
03/11/19 08:19 AM
03/11/19 08:19 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 4,784
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content


Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 4,784
Originally Posted by WimPiano
@Tyrone Slothrop You just demonstrated what I meant to say. A completely useless technique when it comes to making music. Please do me the repeated notes in pianissimo using that technique.. O yes, such a metric does well on a review site but how useful is it really? The same reason that absolutely useless camera's always score high on review sites. O yeah you might need fast repeated notes in Liszts Hungarian rhapsodies but I bet you that 99% of the people discussing this nonsense can't even play a bar of those pieces in appropriate tempo and that is not due to the limitations of their piano.

With regards to the video: of course it works on an upright, just not on a badly designed, badly regulated and worn out upright. With regards to the fingering in Für Elise, that is utter nonsense, you should never play it so fast as to require said technique for speed.

I'm not disputing it can't be done on an upright. Forum member, ando, plays Ondine on his upright and that one even has very rapid pianississimo repeating 32nd notes, which seems to show that one can play anything on an upright with the appropriate technique. Again, just a beginner here - can't do any of these things, but just watching youtube videos (although, have done the fast repetition with two though - that doesn't require so much skill as long as it is an exercise and not real music! smile )


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Why do people not favor uprights?? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2825269
03/11/19 08:22 AM
03/11/19 08:22 AM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 269
Norway
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Skjalg Offline
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Skjalg  Offline
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Norway
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Can it be done with three? You should make a Youtube video with fast repetition with three fingers.




Re: Why do people not favor uprights?? [Re: WimPiano] #2825274
03/11/19 08:29 AM
03/11/19 08:29 AM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 400
Brittany, France
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petebfrance Offline
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Brittany, France
Originally Posted by WimPiano
……….....With regards to the video: of course it works on an upright, just not on a badly designed, badly regulated and worn out upright. With regards to the fingering in Für Elise, that is utter nonsense, you should never play it so fast as to require said technique for speed.

It's interesting, though, that the upright 'can't do' has become a kind of mantra that's been repeated so often that it is rarely questioned. Most of us just ignore it and carry on playing uprights.
In the video he is also claiming that the 3-2-1 fingering is more expressive than just using the one finger, btw, but my suspicion is that putting it in Für Elise is more to do with introducing the concept early because the piece is often taught at an early stage - which is a pity because the technique to play it well may not be there.

Last edited by petebfrance; 03/11/19 08:32 AM.

regards
Pete
Re: Why do people not favor uprights?? [Re: WimPiano] #2825276
03/11/19 08:31 AM
03/11/19 08:31 AM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 733
South Wales
C
Colin Miles Offline
500 Post Club Member
Colin Miles  Offline
500 Post Club Member
C

Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 733
South Wales
Originally Posted by WimPiano
With regards to the fingering in Für Elise, that is utter nonsense, you should never play it so fast as to require said technique for speed.

Technique is what this is about in this case, not speed. But elsewhere that is what 'should' be used.


Roland LX7

South Wales, UK
Re: Why do people not favor uprights?? [Re: Skjalg] #2825279
03/11/19 08:35 AM
03/11/19 08:35 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 4,784
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content


Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 4,784
Originally Posted by Skjalg
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Can it be done with three? You should make a Youtube video with fast repetition with three fingers.



Oops! I was watching Peter Bence who I guess was only using an exhibition technique blush Going to try it with the proper 3 finger technique soon! smile


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Why do people not favor uprights?? [Re: Jitin] #2825286
03/11/19 08:46 AM
03/11/19 08:46 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 14,241
Louisiana
Jolly Offline
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Louisiana
A good musician is a good musician and can deliver a good performance on an adequate instrument - digital, vertical acoustic or grand. Too many people get sucked into the better tool mantra...If I had a better tool I could do a better job, if I had a better boat I could catch more fish, etc.

Yes, grands are better than verticals which are better than digitals. But how much for the average player?

I've written this many times...The best pianist I know has a vertical in his home. This guy can sit in with any group, playing any type of music and hold his own. Classical, of course. Cramer slip notes? No problem. Southern gospel? Give him an Amen! He's just good.

Tools cannot replace talent.


www.coffee-room.com

Over 1.4M (and counting) posts where pianists discuss everything. And nothing.
Re: Why do people not favor uprights?? [Re: Jitin] #2825305
03/11/19 09:36 AM
03/11/19 09:36 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,182
The Netherlands
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WimPiano Offline
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The Netherlands
Exactly! Just as tools do not replace practice.

Re: Why do people not favor uprights?? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2825310
03/11/19 09:40 AM
03/11/19 09:40 AM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 733
South Wales
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Colin Miles Offline
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Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 733
South Wales
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
who I guess was only using an exhibition technique blush Going to try it with the proper 3 finger technique soon! smile


Look at the fingering for Chopin's Grand Valse Op 18 - that's the first one. Lots of repeated notes.


Roland LX7

South Wales, UK
Re: Why do people not favor uprights?? [Re: Jitin] #2825312
03/11/19 09:52 AM
03/11/19 09:52 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 12,375
Georgia, USA
Rickster Offline
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Georgia, USA
Well, I prefer a grand, but I do not "not favor" an upright. I have both and I enjoy both. Also, my older Kawai K48A upright has never had a key to fail to reset before I could play it again, and my back-woods, hillbilly piano playing repetitions can get pretty fast. Sort of like when you're running from the revenuers when they find your moonshine still (just kidding, although my granddaddy was a notorious moonshiner for real). smile

But my repetitions on the upright can be pretty quick without a problem. If I didn't have room for a grand, the upright would be just fine.

I've read here on these forums over the years that few people would ever notice any issues with playing repetitions on a good quality, well regulated upright piano.

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: Why do people not favor uprights?? [Re: Colin Miles] #2825315
03/11/19 09:55 AM
03/11/19 09:55 AM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 400
Brittany, France
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petebfrance Offline
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Brittany, France
Originally Posted by Colin Miles
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
who I guess was only using an exhibition technique blush Going to try it with the proper 3 finger technique soon! smile


Look at the fingering for Chopin's Grand Valse Op 18 - that's the first one. Lots of repeated notes.

Sorry, can't resist:

she plays it so well....
actually one of my favourite pieces but I don't play it as fast or as well as this. Repeated notes here require expression.

Last edited by petebfrance; 03/11/19 09:56 AM.

regards
Pete
Re: Why do people not favor uprights?? [Re: Jitin] #2825338
03/11/19 10:51 AM
03/11/19 10:51 AM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,059
Moscow, Russia
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Iaroslav Vasiliev Offline
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Moscow, Russia
In my opinion the main advantage of the grand piano's action is that it gives much more control when playing p and pp, mainly because of it's escapement mechanism. Because of this grand piano's action generally feels to me more precise, more controllable, and therefore more pleasurable.

Talking about the repeated notes, not only it allows faster repetition, but it also allows to play repeated chords very smoothly, without releasing the keys fully, something I miss very much on my home upright piano.

Re: Why do people not favor uprights?? [Re: Iaroslav Vasiliev] #2825339
03/11/19 10:53 AM
03/11/19 10:53 AM
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Posts: 570
UK
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ShyPianist Offline
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Joined: Feb 2019
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UK
Originally Posted by Iaroslav Vasiliev
In my opinion the main advantage of the grand piano's action is that it gives much more control when playing p and pp, mainly because of it's escapement mechanism. Because of this grand piano's action generally feels to me more precise, more controllable, and therefore more pleasurable.

Talking about the repeated notes, not only it allows faster repetition, but it also allows to play repeated chords very smoothly, without releasing the keys fully, something I miss very much on my home upright piano.


Ha, thank you, I mentioned this on another thread in respect of my tests of some "entry level" uprights in comparison with various digital pianos, grands and my own acoustic upright (where this is also possible). I was told in no uncertain terms that I was talking nonsense.

Last edited by ShyPianist; 03/11/19 10:53 AM.

Pianist, independent music arranger, violinist, mother
Re: Why do people not favor uprights?? [Re: Jitin] #2825373
03/11/19 12:00 PM
03/11/19 12:00 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,695
SE USA
WhoDwaldi Offline
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SE USA
All this reminds me that a woodpecker takes to the side of my house every now and then. 😁


The repeated notes are amazing around 2:30 below:




WhoDwaldi
Howard (by Kawai) 5' 10"
Re: Why do people not favor uprights?? [Re: Jitin] #2825381
03/11/19 12:16 PM
03/11/19 12:16 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,695
SE USA
WhoDwaldi Offline
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WhoDwaldi  Offline
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Joined: May 2008
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SE USA
And there's all the business about getting the repeated notes just right at the beginning of the "Waldstein" Sonata.





WhoDwaldi
Howard (by Kawai) 5' 10"
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