Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Who's Online Now
60 registered members (camperbc, Apache, Chelly85, 20062007, AprilE, Ankee, albydooby, 16 invisible), 853 guests, and 490 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 17 1 2 3 4 16 17
Re: Why do people not favor uprights?? [Re: WimPiano] #2825228 03/11/19 05:31 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 8,427
Tyrone Slothrop Offline
8000 Post Club Member
Offline
8000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 8,427
Originally Posted by WimPiano
that most people cannot even accomplish when requested to do as an exercize let alone when playing music on their own level

Probably that's because no one has taught those people that fast repetition of a single key must be done with two fingers, which although I am a mere beginner, Youtube has already taught me wink


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Piano & Music Gifts & Accessories (570)
Piano accessories and music gift items, digital piano dolly, music theme party goods
Re: Why do people not favor uprights?? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2825238 03/11/19 06:03 AM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 889
C
Colin Miles Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
C
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 889
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by WimPiano
that most people cannot even accomplish when requested to do as an exercize let alone when playing music on their own level

Probably that's because no one has taught those people that fast repetition of a single key must be done with two fingers, which although I am a mere beginner, Youtube has already taught me wink

Surely it should be three fingers not two!


Roland LX7

South Wales, UK
Re: Why do people not favor uprights?? [Re: Colin Miles] #2825244 03/11/19 06:28 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 8,427
Tyrone Slothrop Offline
8000 Post Club Member
Offline
8000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 8,427
Originally Posted by Colin Miles
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by WimPiano
that most people cannot even accomplish when requested to do as an exercize let alone when playing music on their own level

Probably that's because no one has taught those people that fast repetition of a single key must be done with two fingers, which although I am a mere beginner, Youtube has already taught me wink

Surely it should be three fingers not two!

Can it be done with three? You should make a Youtube video with fast repetition with three fingers. I've only seen the videos showing how two finger are needed for fast repetitions smile I can't even picture how three fingers would work. Seems like it would be awfully crowded unless you had very thin fingers! confused


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Why do people not favor uprights?? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2825257 03/11/19 06:58 AM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 528
P
petebfrance Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 528
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by Colin Miles
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by WimPiano
that most people cannot even accomplish when requested to do as an exercize let alone when playing music on their own level

Probably that's because no one has taught those people that fast repetition of a single key must be done with two fingers, which although I am a mere beginner, Youtube has already taught me wink

Surely it should be three fingers not two!

Can it be done with three? You should make a Youtube video with fast repetition with three fingers. I've only seen the videos showing how two finger are needed for fast repetitions smile I can't even picture how three fingers would work. Seems like it would be awfully crowded unless you had very thin fingers! confused


Three seems to be fairly standard - even as a bad repeated note player I use one (shame on me) or three (ah, that's better):

It would be interesting to see the two finger version.
Oh, and he says it won't work on an upright (here we go) which is what I've been using, but of course I don't play that fast.


regards
Pete
Re: Why do people not favor uprights?? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2825261 03/11/19 07:05 AM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 889
C
Colin Miles Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
C
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 889
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by Colin Miles
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by WimPiano
that most people cannot even accomplish when requested to do as an exercize let alone when playing music on their own level

Probably that's because no one has taught those people that fast repetition of a single key must be done with two fingers, which although I am a mere beginner, Youtube has already taught me wink

Surely it should be three fingers not two!

Can it be done with three? You should make a Youtube video with fast repetition with three fingers. I've only seen the videos showing how two finger are needed for fast repetitions smile I can't even picture how three fingers would work. Seems like it would be awfully crowded unless you had very thin fingers! confused

Three fingers , 3,2,1 is the 'standard' way - have a look at the fingering for Fur Elise.


Roland LX7

South Wales, UK
Re: Why do people not favor uprights?? [Re: Jitin] #2825262 03/11/19 07:07 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,182
W
WimPiano Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
W
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,182
@Tyrone Slothrop You just demonstrated what I meant to say. A completely useless technique when it comes to making music. Please do me the repeated notes in pianissimo using that technique.. O yes, such a metric does well on a review site but how useful is it really? The same reason that absolutely useless camera's always score high on review sites. O yeah you might need fast repeated notes in Liszts Hungarian rhapsodies but I bet you that 99% of the people discussing this nonsense can't even play a bar of those pieces in appropriate tempo and that is not due to the limitations of their piano.

With regards to the video: of course it works on an upright, just not on a badly designed, badly regulated and worn out upright. With regards to the fingering in Für Elise, that is utter nonsense, you should never play it so fast as to require said technique for speed.

Last edited by WimPiano; 03/11/19 07:11 AM.
Re: Why do people not favor uprights?? [Re: WimPiano] #2825268 03/11/19 07:19 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 8,427
Tyrone Slothrop Offline
8000 Post Club Member
Offline
8000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 8,427
Originally Posted by WimPiano
@Tyrone Slothrop You just demonstrated what I meant to say. A completely useless technique when it comes to making music. Please do me the repeated notes in pianissimo using that technique.. O yes, such a metric does well on a review site but how useful is it really? The same reason that absolutely useless camera's always score high on review sites. O yeah you might need fast repeated notes in Liszts Hungarian rhapsodies but I bet you that 99% of the people discussing this nonsense can't even play a bar of those pieces in appropriate tempo and that is not due to the limitations of their piano.

With regards to the video: of course it works on an upright, just not on a badly designed, badly regulated and worn out upright. With regards to the fingering in Für Elise, that is utter nonsense, you should never play it so fast as to require said technique for speed.

I'm not disputing it can't be done on an upright. Forum member, ando, plays Ondine on his upright and that one even has very rapid pianississimo repeating 32nd notes, which seems to show that one can play anything on an upright with the appropriate technique. Again, just a beginner here - can't do any of these things, but just watching youtube videos (although, have done the fast repetition with two though - that doesn't require so much skill as long as it is an exercise and not real music! smile )


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Why do people not favor uprights?? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2825269 03/11/19 07:22 AM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 310
S
Skjalg Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
S
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 310
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Can it be done with three? You should make a Youtube video with fast repetition with three fingers.




Re: Why do people not favor uprights?? [Re: WimPiano] #2825274 03/11/19 07:29 AM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 528
P
petebfrance Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 528
Originally Posted by WimPiano
……….....With regards to the video: of course it works on an upright, just not on a badly designed, badly regulated and worn out upright. With regards to the fingering in Für Elise, that is utter nonsense, you should never play it so fast as to require said technique for speed.

It's interesting, though, that the upright 'can't do' has become a kind of mantra that's been repeated so often that it is rarely questioned. Most of us just ignore it and carry on playing uprights.
In the video he is also claiming that the 3-2-1 fingering is more expressive than just using the one finger, btw, but my suspicion is that putting it in Für Elise is more to do with introducing the concept early because the piece is often taught at an early stage - which is a pity because the technique to play it well may not be there.

Last edited by petebfrance; 03/11/19 07:32 AM.

regards
Pete
Re: Why do people not favor uprights?? [Re: WimPiano] #2825276 03/11/19 07:31 AM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 889
C
Colin Miles Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
C
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 889
Originally Posted by WimPiano
With regards to the fingering in Für Elise, that is utter nonsense, you should never play it so fast as to require said technique for speed.

Technique is what this is about in this case, not speed. But elsewhere that is what 'should' be used.


Roland LX7

South Wales, UK
Re: Why do people not favor uprights?? [Re: Skjalg] #2825279 03/11/19 07:35 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 8,427
Tyrone Slothrop Offline
8000 Post Club Member
Offline
8000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 8,427
Originally Posted by Skjalg
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Can it be done with three? You should make a Youtube video with fast repetition with three fingers.



Oops! I was watching Peter Bence who I guess was only using an exhibition technique blush Going to try it with the proper 3 finger technique soon! smile


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Why do people not favor uprights?? [Re: Jitin] #2825286 03/11/19 07:46 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 14,247
Jolly Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 14,247
A good musician is a good musician and can deliver a good performance on an adequate instrument - digital, vertical acoustic or grand. Too many people get sucked into the better tool mantra...If I had a better tool I could do a better job, if I had a better boat I could catch more fish, etc.

Yes, grands are better than verticals which are better than digitals. But how much for the average player?

I've written this many times...The best pianist I know has a vertical in his home. This guy can sit in with any group, playing any type of music and hold his own. Classical, of course. Cramer slip notes? No problem. Southern gospel? Give him an Amen! He's just good.

Tools cannot replace talent.


www.coffee-room.com

Over 1.4M (and counting) posts where pianists discuss everything. And nothing.
Re: Why do people not favor uprights?? [Re: Jitin] #2825305 03/11/19 08:36 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,182
W
WimPiano Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
W
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,182
Exactly! Just as tools do not replace practice.

Re: Why do people not favor uprights?? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2825310 03/11/19 08:40 AM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 889
C
Colin Miles Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
C
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 889
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
who I guess was only using an exhibition technique blush Going to try it with the proper 3 finger technique soon! smile


Look at the fingering for Chopin's Grand Valse Op 18 - that's the first one. Lots of repeated notes.


Roland LX7

South Wales, UK
Re: Why do people not favor uprights?? [Re: Jitin] #2825312 03/11/19 08:52 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 12,794
Rickster Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 12,794
Well, I prefer a grand, but I do not "not favor" an upright. I have both and I enjoy both. Also, my older Kawai K48A upright has never had a key to fail to reset before I could play it again, and my back-woods, hillbilly piano playing repetitions can get pretty fast. Sort of like when you're running from the revenuers when they find your moonshine still (just kidding, although my granddaddy was a notorious moonshiner for real). smile

But my repetitions on the upright can be pretty quick without a problem. If I didn't have room for a grand, the upright would be just fine.

I've read here on these forums over the years that few people would ever notice any issues with playing repetitions on a good quality, well regulated upright piano.

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: Why do people not favor uprights?? [Re: Colin Miles] #2825315 03/11/19 08:55 AM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 528
P
petebfrance Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 528
Originally Posted by Colin Miles
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
who I guess was only using an exhibition technique blush Going to try it with the proper 3 finger technique soon! smile


Look at the fingering for Chopin's Grand Valse Op 18 - that's the first one. Lots of repeated notes.

Sorry, can't resist:

she plays it so well....
actually one of my favourite pieces but I don't play it as fast or as well as this. Repeated notes here require expression.

Last edited by petebfrance; 03/11/19 08:56 AM.

regards
Pete
Re: Why do people not favor uprights?? [Re: Jitin] #2825338 03/11/19 09:51 AM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,330
I
Iaroslav Vasiliev Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
I
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,330
In my opinion the main advantage of the grand piano's action is that it gives much more control when playing p and pp, mainly because of it's escapement mechanism. Because of this grand piano's action generally feels to me more precise, more controllable, and therefore more pleasurable.

Talking about the repeated notes, not only it allows faster repetition, but it also allows to play repeated chords very smoothly, without releasing the keys fully, something I miss very much on my home upright piano.

Re: Why do people not favor uprights?? [Re: Iaroslav Vasiliev] #2825339 03/11/19 09:53 AM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 573
S
ShyPianist Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 573
Originally Posted by Iaroslav Vasiliev
In my opinion the main advantage of the grand piano's action is that it gives much more control when playing p and pp, mainly because of it's escapement mechanism. Because of this grand piano's action generally feels to me more precise, more controllable, and therefore more pleasurable.

Talking about the repeated notes, not only it allows faster repetition, but it also allows to play repeated chords very smoothly, without releasing the keys fully, something I miss very much on my home upright piano.


Ha, thank you, I mentioned this on another thread in respect of my tests of some "entry level" uprights in comparison with various digital pianos, grands and my own acoustic upright (where this is also possible). I was told in no uncertain terms that I was talking nonsense.

Last edited by ShyPianist; 03/11/19 09:53 AM.

Pianist, independent music arranger, violinist, mother
Re: Why do people not favor uprights?? [Re: Jitin] #2825373 03/11/19 11:00 AM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,029
WhoDwaldi Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,029
All this reminds me that a woodpecker takes to the side of my house every now and then. 😁


The repeated notes are amazing around 2:30 below:




WhoDwaldi
Howard (by Kawai) 5' 10"
Re: Why do people not favor uprights?? [Re: Jitin] #2825381 03/11/19 11:16 AM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,029
WhoDwaldi Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,029
And there's all the business about getting the repeated notes just right at the beginning of the "Waldstein" Sonata.





WhoDwaldi
Howard (by Kawai) 5' 10"
Page 2 of 17 1 2 3 4 16 17

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

ad
Rob Mullins Holiday Album
Rob Mullins Holiday Album

Rob is an amazing jazz pianist in LA,a composer, and a friend of mine.
Frank B. / Piano World
Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
Christmas Ornaments Music Theme
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Bechstein
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
What challenges are your current pieces giving you?
by rach3master - 12/12/19 02:51 AM
Transcribing Tools
by Chelly85 - 12/12/19 02:39 AM
My new (odd!) method of sight reading...
by camperbc - 12/11/19 08:10 PM
Buying a Hailun 161...
by funk@delic - 12/11/19 05:10 PM
It's here! My first real piano!
by WeakLeftHand - 12/11/19 04:00 PM
What's Hot!!
Our August Newsletter is Out!
------------------
Mason & Hamlin Piano Factory Tour!

-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics195,615
Posts2,900,832
Members95,217
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2019 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3