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Yamaha P-515 distorts with 100% amplitude Bluetooth audio?
#2824504 03/09/19 01:09 AM
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Just noticed that when I feed the P-515 full scale amplitude Bluetooth audio, it clips. E.g this test tone clips: https://youtu.be/Ks_7KG0hMuA if I set the volume to 100% on my source of Bluetooth signal.

Can anyone else reproduce this?

Greg

Re: Yamaha P-515 distorts with 100% amplitude Bluetooth audio?
sullivang #2825176 03/11/19 02:59 AM
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It distorts if the signal level is greater than about -3.6dBFS. Have reported it to Yamaha.

Greg.

Re: Yamaha P-515 distorts with 100% amplitude Bluetooth audio?
sullivang #2825207 03/11/19 05:51 AM
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Sully, you have truly been snake bitten by this P515. It's one problem after another, and no end in sight. frown

Re: Yamaha P-515 distorts with 100% amplitude Bluetooth audio?
sullivang #2825215 03/11/19 06:07 AM
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It is becoming evident that if you are a power user of a DP the P515 is not fit for purpose...on the other hand if you just want to turn on the piano and play you are all set - saying that, the P515 isn't under the 1K price mark so totally understand expectations to be higher...the question that remains is whether these issues can be fixed under a software upgrade and does Yamaha even offer software upgrades on the P series? Having a quick look on their website it seems firmware updates are only available for the CVP, CLP and Modus series pianos...

Re: Yamaha P-515 distorts with 100% amplitude Bluetooth audio?
MacMacMac #2825230 03/11/19 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Sully, you have truly been snake bitten by this P515. It's one problem after another, and no end in sight. frown


Oh come on. Not one in ten thousand buyers would subject this thing to the kind of forensic 'problem seeking' approach Greg has used. We haven't heard one single word of the thing's musical attributes, or lack thereof, from him. Don't you think that is strange?

These pianos are designed to be sat down at and played, not scientifically analysed to this degree.

Greg, you want to learn about 'real' piano problems??...buy yourself a hundred and sixteen year old Broadwood grand. I think your head would explode. Just stop dicking about with it and play that Yamaha!


C. Bechstein Model B | Roland RD-1000 | Kawai VPC1
Re: Yamaha P-515 distorts with 100% amplitude Bluetooth audio?
sullivang #2825241 03/11/19 07:17 AM
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EssBrace,

Now you actually have seemingly hard facts about poor audio processing,
and you simply try to talk it away? Why?

We are not living in the 80ties of the preceeding century any more!
And therefore we should expect state of the art technology and audio processing of a digital piano.

Re: Yamaha P-515 distorts with 100% amplitude Bluetooth audio?
sullivang #2825246 03/11/19 07:30 AM
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It has a Bluetooth audio function. All I did was attempt to play audio through the P-515 from my smartphone. I immediately heard clipping. I am not returning it because of this problem - I am simply reporting the problem.

Greg.

Re: Yamaha P-515 distorts with 100% amplitude Bluetooth audio?
lophiomys #2825247 03/11/19 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by lophiomys
EssBrace,

Now you actually have seemingly hard facts about poor audio processing,
and you simply try to talk it away? Why?

We are not living in the 80ties of the preceeding century any more!
And therefore we should expect state of the art technology and audio processing of a digital piano.



I do agree on that. However, since bluetooth is not wired, it does mean more latency. I would wonder about the polling rate. Sometimes it can improve with better bluetooth receivers.
I assume you used your smartphone to connect. Because of your bluetooth receiver is unique by this, I would expect the Piano to work flawlessly by often used Hardware.

Best

Re: Yamaha P-515 distorts with 100% amplitude Bluetooth audio?
EssBrace #2825252 03/11/19 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by EssBrace
We haven't heard one single word of the thing's musical attributes, or lack thereof, from him. Don't you think that is strange?


And this is complete nonsense. I have commented on both the tone, and the action. Have you forgotten that I had first purchased an FP60, and returned it because I hated the action? When I received the P-515, I reported here that the action did not suffer from the same problem, and in fact I liked the action a lot.
That's a "musical attribute" IMHO. Re the tone, I have commented on demo clips (mostly positive), and after I purchased it, I made further comment, although not as positive. (I think I notice similar problems to others, unfortunately). I also took the time to develop a custom velocity curve that I apply externally, and published a preset for the Bome MIDI Translator that works well for me. This is all musical - it's so I can better express myself musically. I am not doing it just for the sake of it. I have never felt the need to use an external velocity curve with any other DP I've owned - I didn't do it before because I didn't need to. I need to now, at least until Yamaha releases an update.

Greg.

Re: Yamaha P-515 distorts with 100% amplitude Bluetooth audio?
sullivang #2825254 03/11/19 07:48 AM
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I think I'm feeling pretty jaded about this place. There's just no joy in it. Moan, moan, moan. That's all there is to read sometimes.

I'll have break for while I think.


C. Bechstein Model B | Roland RD-1000 | Kawai VPC1
Re: Yamaha P-515 distorts with 100% amplitude Bluetooth audio?
EssBrace #2825259 03/11/19 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by EssBrace


Greg, you want to learn about 'real' piano problems??...buy yourself a hundred and sixteen year old Broadwood grand. I think your head would explode. Just stop dicking about with it and play that Yamaha!



Ha! ha! had one o'those, a 7 footer Boudoir grand. Wife loved playing it, I had the job of tuning it. Every half hour . . . . my little laddo used to fall asleep under it's dulcet tones. Under the soundboard!
So sorry to see it go, but the central heating unfortunately had to stay.


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

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Re: Yamaha P-515 distorts with 100% amplitude Bluetooth audio?
EssBrace #2825278 03/11/19 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Sully, you have truly been snake bitten by this P515. It's one problem after another, and no end in sight. frown

At least this clipping issue I could actually confirm after generating a 440 Hz sine tone at 0.999 level. Dialing back the output volume two notches on my tablet removes the clipping entirely. My classical music library is much more silent than that though, so there is a trade off with no input volume adjustment.

Originally Posted by EssBrace
Oh come on. Not one in ten thousand buyers would subject this thing to the kind of forensic 'problem seeking' approach Greg has used. We haven't heard one single word of the thing's musical attributes, or lack thereof, from him. Don't you think that is strange?

It's a great trait though. Yamaha/Kawai really want to employ people like him in their QA department. They find everything before the customer even notices.


Yamaha P-515 | Kawai ES100 | Steinberg UR22 | Sony MDR-7506
Re: Yamaha P-515 distorts with 100% amplitude Bluetooth audio?
sullivang #2825295 03/11/19 09:11 AM
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If there would be an official bug bounty program, I might buy one and get rich. wink

Re: Yamaha P-515 distorts with 100% amplitude Bluetooth audio?
JoeT #2825298 03/11/19 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by EssBrace
It's a great trait though. Yamaha/Kawai really want to employ people like him in their QA department. They find everything before the customer even notices.


QM / QA seems to be the last step in the chain and often is 'additional'... which I dislike.

Re: Yamaha P-515 distorts with 100% amplitude Bluetooth audio?
JoeT #2825325 03/11/19 10:18 AM
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QA is not a department. It is a function.
Originally Posted by JoeT
Yamaha/Kawai really want to employ people like him in their QA department.

Re: Yamaha P-515 distorts with 100% amplitude Bluetooth audio?
nicknameTaken #2825332 03/11/19 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by nicknameTaken

Originally Posted by EssBrace
It's a great trait though. Yamaha/Kawai really want to employ people like him in their QA department. They find everything before the customer even notices.


QM / QA seems to be the last step in the chain and often is 'additional'... which I dislike.


QA is always first and starts at the design stage. There is/are specifications laid down as industry standard. They'll be international standards now, of course. And they'll be very similar to what I was familiar with in the department where I worked.
The same spec. applies across every product, or service. It's an excellent process, but, now as always, the QA manager is at loggerheads with the production Manager!
It was fun working there.


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

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Re: Yamaha P-515 distorts with 100% amplitude Bluetooth audio?
peterws #2825345 03/11/19 11:08 AM
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>QA is always first and starts at the design stage.

Nice joke. It's not the reality.
I wish it were at every single company there was.

Last edited by nicknameTaken; 03/11/19 11:09 AM.
Re: Yamaha P-515 distorts with 100% amplitude Bluetooth audio?
nicknameTaken #2825352 03/11/19 11:17 AM
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Agreed.
Originally Posted by nicknameTaken
>QA is always first and starts at the design stage.
Nice joke. It's not the reality. I wish it were at every single company there was.

But I think your objection is about the (faulty) implementation of QA.
My objection is about QA in principle.

QA is about finding defects after they happen.
But a mature quality-focused organization acts to prevent defects before they happen.

QA is the job of a select few.
A quality-conscious culture makes quality a specific part of everyone's job.

Re: Yamaha P-515 distorts with 100% amplitude Bluetooth audio?
sullivang #2825408 03/11/19 01:04 PM
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QA is about preventing defects before they happen. Quality Control is about rectifying processes which would cause defects, such as worn machinery detected during audits or maintenance. Occasionally defective items from a sample may be evident, in which case questions would be asked of the QA department.
Hope you don't mind me pointing this stuff out; I loved that job simply because I believed in the process which has revolutionised manufacturing.
Unfortunately, since i left, a new control document was being rolled out called "Total Quality Management" by Sprenger, who extolled what I thought was a load of bollocks.
The whole system collapsed into a certificate of compliance, which placed total responsbility, legally, on the manufacturer, or seller, thus obviating the need for regular, or any, audits on behalf of the recipient.

Last edited by peterws; 03/11/19 01:13 PM.

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Re: Yamaha P-515 distorts with 100% amplitude Bluetooth audio?
sullivang #2825557 03/11/19 06:34 PM
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JoeT: thanks for testing - I have passed on to Yamaha that another user has reproduced the same problem. It's not a big problem, but IMHO a system that accepts a source of *digital* audio should be able to accept full scale volume level without clipping. The P-515 clips no matter what main volume I have it on and I think this is sloppy.

Greg.

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