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Yamaha P-515 distorts with 100% amplitude Bluetooth audio? #2824504
03/09/19 01:09 AM
03/09/19 01:09 AM
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sullivang Offline OP
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Just noticed that when I feed the P-515 full scale amplitude Bluetooth audio, it clips. E.g this test tone clips: https://youtu.be/Ks_7KG0hMuA if I set the volume to 100% on my source of Bluetooth signal.

Can anyone else reproduce this?

Greg

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Re: Yamaha P-515 distorts with 100% amplitude Bluetooth audio? [Re: sullivang] #2825176
03/11/19 02:59 AM
03/11/19 02:59 AM
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sullivang Offline OP
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It distorts if the signal level is greater than about -3.6dBFS. Have reported it to Yamaha.

Greg.

Re: Yamaha P-515 distorts with 100% amplitude Bluetooth audio? [Re: sullivang] #2825207
03/11/19 05:51 AM
03/11/19 05:51 AM
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Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
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Sully, you have truly been snake bitten by this P515. It's one problem after another, and no end in sight. frown

Re: Yamaha P-515 distorts with 100% amplitude Bluetooth audio? [Re: sullivang] #2825215
03/11/19 06:07 AM
03/11/19 06:07 AM
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It is becoming evident that if you are a power user of a DP the P515 is not fit for purpose...on the other hand if you just want to turn on the piano and play you are all set - saying that, the P515 isn't under the 1K price mark so totally understand expectations to be higher...the question that remains is whether these issues can be fixed under a software upgrade and does Yamaha even offer software upgrades on the P series? Having a quick look on their website it seems firmware updates are only available for the CVP, CLP and Modus series pianos...

Re: Yamaha P-515 distorts with 100% amplitude Bluetooth audio? [Re: MacMacMac] #2825230
03/11/19 06:36 AM
03/11/19 06:36 AM
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EssBrace Offline
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Sully, you have truly been snake bitten by this P515. It's one problem after another, and no end in sight. frown


Oh come on. Not one in ten thousand buyers would subject this thing to the kind of forensic 'problem seeking' approach Greg has used. We haven't heard one single word of the thing's musical attributes, or lack thereof, from him. Don't you think that is strange?

These pianos are designed to be sat down at and played, not scientifically analysed to this degree.

Greg, you want to learn about 'real' piano problems??...buy yourself a hundred and sixteen year old Broadwood grand. I think your head would explode. Just stop dicking about with it and play that Yamaha!


Roland RD-1000 | Broadwood Grand Piano
Re: Yamaha P-515 distorts with 100% amplitude Bluetooth audio? [Re: sullivang] #2825241
03/11/19 07:17 AM
03/11/19 07:17 AM
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lophiomys Offline
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EssBrace,

Now you actually have seemingly hard facts about poor audio processing,
and you simply try to talk it away? Why?

We are not living in the 80ties of the preceeding century any more!
And therefore we should expect state of the art technology and audio processing of a digital piano.

Re: Yamaha P-515 distorts with 100% amplitude Bluetooth audio? [Re: sullivang] #2825246
03/11/19 07:30 AM
03/11/19 07:30 AM
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sullivang Offline OP
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It has a Bluetooth audio function. All I did was attempt to play audio through the P-515 from my smartphone. I immediately heard clipping. I am not returning it because of this problem - I am simply reporting the problem.

Greg.

Re: Yamaha P-515 distorts with 100% amplitude Bluetooth audio? [Re: lophiomys] #2825247
03/11/19 07:31 AM
03/11/19 07:31 AM
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nicknameTaken Offline
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Originally Posted by lophiomys
EssBrace,

Now you actually have seemingly hard facts about poor audio processing,
and you simply try to talk it away? Why?

We are not living in the 80ties of the preceeding century any more!
And therefore we should expect state of the art technology and audio processing of a digital piano.



I do agree on that. However, since bluetooth is not wired, it does mean more latency. I would wonder about the polling rate. Sometimes it can improve with better bluetooth receivers.
I assume you used your smartphone to connect. Because of your bluetooth receiver is unique by this, I would expect the Piano to work flawlessly by often used Hardware.

Best

Re: Yamaha P-515 distorts with 100% amplitude Bluetooth audio? [Re: EssBrace] #2825252
03/11/19 07:44 AM
03/11/19 07:44 AM
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sullivang Offline OP
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Originally Posted by EssBrace
We haven't heard one single word of the thing's musical attributes, or lack thereof, from him. Don't you think that is strange?


And this is complete nonsense. I have commented on both the tone, and the action. Have you forgotten that I had first purchased an FP60, and returned it because I hated the action? When I received the P-515, I reported here that the action did not suffer from the same problem, and in fact I liked the action a lot.
That's a "musical attribute" IMHO. Re the tone, I have commented on demo clips (mostly positive), and after I purchased it, I made further comment, although not as positive. (I think I notice similar problems to others, unfortunately). I also took the time to develop a custom velocity curve that I apply externally, and published a preset for the Bome MIDI Translator that works well for me. This is all musical - it's so I can better express myself musically. I am not doing it just for the sake of it. I have never felt the need to use an external velocity curve with any other DP I've owned - I didn't do it before because I didn't need to. I need to now, at least until Yamaha releases an update.

Greg.

Re: Yamaha P-515 distorts with 100% amplitude Bluetooth audio? [Re: sullivang] #2825254
03/11/19 07:48 AM
03/11/19 07:48 AM
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EssBrace Offline
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I think I'm feeling pretty jaded about this place. There's just no joy in it. Moan, moan, moan. That's all there is to read sometimes.

I'll have break for while I think.


Roland RD-1000 | Broadwood Grand Piano
Re: Yamaha P-515 distorts with 100% amplitude Bluetooth audio? [Re: EssBrace] #2825259
03/11/19 08:00 AM
03/11/19 08:00 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 7,652
Northern England.
peterws Offline
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Originally Posted by EssBrace


Greg, you want to learn about 'real' piano problems??...buy yourself a hundred and sixteen year old Broadwood grand. I think your head would explode. Just stop dicking about with it and play that Yamaha!



Ha! ha! had one o'those, a 7 footer Boudoir grand. Wife loved playing it, I had the job of tuning it. Every half hour . . . . my little laddo used to fall asleep under it's dulcet tones. Under the soundboard!
So sorry to see it go, but the central heating unfortunately had to stay.


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

"[Linked Image]"
Re: Yamaha P-515 distorts with 100% amplitude Bluetooth audio? [Re: EssBrace] #2825278
03/11/19 08:33 AM
03/11/19 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Sully, you have truly been snake bitten by this P515. It's one problem after another, and no end in sight. frown

At least this clipping issue I could actually confirm after generating a 440 Hz sine tone at 0.999 level. Dialing back the output volume two notches on my tablet removes the clipping entirely. My classical music library is much more silent than that though, so there is a trade off with no input volume adjustment.

Originally Posted by EssBrace
Oh come on. Not one in ten thousand buyers would subject this thing to the kind of forensic 'problem seeking' approach Greg has used. We haven't heard one single word of the thing's musical attributes, or lack thereof, from him. Don't you think that is strange?

It's a great trait though. Yamaha/Kawai really want to employ people like him in their QA department. They find everything before the customer even notices.


Yamaha P-515 | Kawai ES100 | Steinberg UR22 | Sony MDR-7506
Re: Yamaha P-515 distorts with 100% amplitude Bluetooth audio? [Re: sullivang] #2825295
03/11/19 09:11 AM
03/11/19 09:11 AM
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lophiomys Offline
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If there would be an official bug bounty program, I might buy one and get rich. wink

Re: Yamaha P-515 distorts with 100% amplitude Bluetooth audio? [Re: JoeT] #2825298
03/11/19 09:16 AM
03/11/19 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by EssBrace
It's a great trait though. Yamaha/Kawai really want to employ people like him in their QA department. They find everything before the customer even notices.


QM / QA seems to be the last step in the chain and often is 'additional'... which I dislike.

Re: Yamaha P-515 distorts with 100% amplitude Bluetooth audio? [Re: JoeT] #2825325
03/11/19 10:18 AM
03/11/19 10:18 AM
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Posts: 8,615
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
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QA is not a department. It is a function.
Originally Posted by JoeT
Yamaha/Kawai really want to employ people like him in their QA department.

Re: Yamaha P-515 distorts with 100% amplitude Bluetooth audio? [Re: nicknameTaken] #2825332
03/11/19 10:30 AM
03/11/19 10:30 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 7,652
Northern England.
peterws Offline
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peterws  Offline
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Originally Posted by nicknameTaken

Originally Posted by EssBrace
It's a great trait though. Yamaha/Kawai really want to employ people like him in their QA department. They find everything before the customer even notices.


QM / QA seems to be the last step in the chain and often is 'additional'... which I dislike.


QA is always first and starts at the design stage. There is/are specifications laid down as industry standard. They'll be international standards now, of course. And they'll be very similar to what I was familiar with in the department where I worked.
The same spec. applies across every product, or service. It's an excellent process, but, now as always, the QA manager is at loggerheads with the production Manager!
It was fun working there.


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

"[Linked Image]"
Re: Yamaha P-515 distorts with 100% amplitude Bluetooth audio? [Re: peterws] #2825345
03/11/19 11:08 AM
03/11/19 11:08 AM
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nicknameTaken Offline
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>QA is always first and starts at the design stage.

Nice joke. It's not the reality.
I wish it were at every single company there was.

Last edited by nicknameTaken; 03/11/19 11:09 AM.
Re: Yamaha P-515 distorts with 100% amplitude Bluetooth audio? [Re: nicknameTaken] #2825352
03/11/19 11:17 AM
03/11/19 11:17 AM
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Agreed.
Originally Posted by nicknameTaken
>QA is always first and starts at the design stage.
Nice joke. It's not the reality. I wish it were at every single company there was.

But I think your objection is about the (faulty) implementation of QA.
My objection is about QA in principle.

QA is about finding defects after they happen.
But a mature quality-focused organization acts to prevent defects before they happen.

QA is the job of a select few.
A quality-conscious culture makes quality a specific part of everyone's job.

Re: Yamaha P-515 distorts with 100% amplitude Bluetooth audio? [Re: sullivang] #2825408
03/11/19 01:04 PM
03/11/19 01:04 PM
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peterws Offline
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QA is about preventing defects before they happen. Quality Control is about rectifying processes which would cause defects, such as worn machinery detected during audits or maintenance. Occasionally defective items from a sample may be evident, in which case questions would be asked of the QA department.
Hope you don't mind me pointing this stuff out; I loved that job simply because I believed in the process which has revolutionised manufacturing.
Unfortunately, since i left, a new control document was being rolled out called "Total Quality Management" by Sprenger, who extolled what I thought was a load of bollocks.
The whole system collapsed into a certificate of compliance, which placed total responsbility, legally, on the manufacturer, or seller, thus obviating the need for regular, or any, audits on behalf of the recipient.

Last edited by peterws; 03/11/19 01:13 PM.

"I am not a man. I am a free number"

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Re: Yamaha P-515 distorts with 100% amplitude Bluetooth audio? [Re: sullivang] #2825557
03/11/19 06:34 PM
03/11/19 06:34 PM
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sullivang Offline OP
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JoeT: thanks for testing - I have passed on to Yamaha that another user has reproduced the same problem. It's not a big problem, but IMHO a system that accepts a source of *digital* audio should be able to accept full scale volume level without clipping. The P-515 clips no matter what main volume I have it on and I think this is sloppy.

Greg.

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