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Trying Bach, or its trying me #2823371
03/06/19 02:39 PM
03/06/19 02:39 PM
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dobro Offline OP
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Ive been wanting to try Bach for a while and i got out the 2 part inventions and started with 4. I was instantly hooked after getting a few measures down. I know there are discussions here already and im just wondering if im on the right track. Id enjoy your opinions.


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Re: Trying Bach, or its trying me [Re: dobro] #2823380
03/06/19 03:34 PM
03/06/19 03:34 PM
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I would just say that you should dedicate sufficient time to carefully analyse this piece - the same applies to any other of the 2 or 3 part inventions. Bach wrote these pieces primarily as exercises in composition. So if you practice just the technical part you would be missing the other half of the picture. Have fun!

Re: Trying Bach, or its trying me [Re: arc7urus] #2823403
03/06/19 04:55 PM
03/06/19 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by arc7urus
Bach wrote these pieces primarily as exercises in composition.
Not sure what you mean by "exercises in composition".
They were written as musical exercises for his students.

Bach titled the collection:
" Forthright instruction, wherewith lovers of the clavier, especially those desirous of learning, are shown in a clear way not only 1) to learn to play two voices clearly, but also after further progress 2) to deal correctly and well with three obbligato parts, moreover at the same time to obtain not only good ideas, but also to carry them out well, but most of all to achieve a cantabile style of playing, and thereby to acquire a strong foretaste of composition."

Re: Trying Bach, or its trying me [Re: pianoloverus] #2823495
03/06/19 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by arc7urus
Bach wrote these pieces primarily as exercises in composition.
Not sure what you mean by "exercises in composition".
They were written as musical exercises for his students.

Bach titled the collection:
" Forthright instruction, wherewith lovers of the clavier, especially those desirous of learning, are shown in a clear way not only 1) to learn to play two voices clearly, but also after further progress 2) to deal correctly and well with three obbligato parts, moreover at the same time to obtain not only good ideas, but also to carry them out well, but most of all to achieve a cantabile style of playing, and thereby to acquire a strong foretaste of composition."

Most musicians during this period did not only learn how to play an instrument but also how to compose music. These inventions were not written to be used as simple set of technical exercises but also to be studied from a composition perspective. Bach's foreword clearly refers to these two complementary components: the technical ("play... clearly", "deal correctly", carry them out well") and the theoretical ("obtain good ideas", "acquire a strong foretaste of composition"). The second component is sometimes disregarded today, which means a significant part of the value of the inventions is lost. Hence my remark that was probably worded wrongly...

Re: Trying Bach, or its trying me [Re: dobro] #2823515
03/06/19 09:41 PM
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I fully understand how people are addicted to Bach now. Its mind bending but so interesting.


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Re: Trying Bach, or its trying me [Re: dobro] #2823603
03/07/19 04:49 AM
03/07/19 04:49 AM
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Good choice, no. 4 is the easiest one, and very melodic. Overall I like the minor ones best, especially no. 2 and no. 13.
Mind bending indeed!


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Re: Trying Bach, or its trying me [Re: dobro] #2823604
03/07/19 04:50 AM
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Originally Posted by dobro
I fully understand how people are addicted to Bach now. Its mind bending but so interesting.


I love playing Bach. It resets my brain.

Only on the piano though. I detested him on the violin!

Last edited by ShyPianist; 03/07/19 04:51 AM.

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Re: Trying Bach, or its trying me [Re: ShyPianist] #2823618
03/07/19 05:43 AM
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Originally Posted by ShyPianist
Originally Posted by dobro
I fully understand how people are addicted to Bach now. Its mind bending but so interesting.


I love playing Bach. It resets my brain.

Only on the piano though. I detested him on the violin!


Interesting that you say that. Bach was my favourite composer when I learnt as a child and I was happy when my teacher chose for me a Bach piece to learn. But I'm finding learning as an adult I have not found anything that particularly engages me. Though that could just be luck as I have made a concerted or organised approach in looking for Bach to play as an adult.

But right now I am listening to a collection of Bach violin concertos which I do like very much.

Kevin


Learning Mendelssohn Song without Words Op. 19 No. 2, Schumann Bunte Blätter Stücklein Op. 99 No. 1. Jensen Sehnsucht Op. 8 No. 5. Schumann Kinderszenen Op15 No1, Von Fremden Ländern und Menschen.
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Re: Trying Bach, or its trying me [Re: ShyPianist] #2823716
03/07/19 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by ShyPianist
Originally Posted by dobro
I fully understand how people are addicted to Bach now. Its mind bending but so interesting.


I love playing Bach. It resets my brain.

Only on the piano though. I detested him on the violin!



Im curious to know why you detested it on violin? I ask because ive a friend trying Bach on guitar and his mind is bent like mine.


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Re: Trying Bach, or its trying me [Re: dobro] #2823717
03/07/19 10:45 AM
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It might have been something to do with getting almost nothing BUT Bach from one particular teacher for years! But I never got on with Baroque music on the violin really, I much preferred Romantic pieces with full vibrato. I find the sounds created up close by string crossing and double stopping quite unpleasant on the ear!


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Re: Trying Bach, or its trying me [Re: dobro] #2823772
03/07/19 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by dobro
Ive been wanting to try Bach for a while and i got out the 2 part inventions and started with 4. I was instantly hooked after getting a few measures down. I know there are discussions here already and im just wondering if im on the right track. Id enjoy your opinions.



I love the Inventions and Sinfonias, to me they are miniature masterpieces. There isn’t one that I don’t like. I started working on Invention no. 8 at the end of last year and am now working on no. 13, which is my favorite. They are more challenging than anything I’ve played before but I’m completely convinced that they are worth the effort.

You ask if you’re on the right track, I’m not sure what you mean. Do you mean, are the Inventions a good place to start learning Bach?


It’s never too late to be what you might have been. -George Eliot
Re: Trying Bach, or its trying me [Re: dobro] #2824210
03/08/19 11:21 AM
03/08/19 11:21 AM
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Ive practiced the trills in the Invention 4 and the fingering is 1-3,2-3 and i wonder if these are suppose to sound just the same or if 1 is to be stronger than 2? Have i said that im addicted to this music yet?


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Re: Trying Bach, or its trying me [Re: sinophilia] #2824356
03/08/19 05:05 PM
03/08/19 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by sinophilia
Good choice, no. 4 is the easiest one, and very melodic. Overall I like the minor ones best, especially no. 2 and no. 13.
Mind bending indeed!

The easiest by far is no. 1 and is almost always taught first because of the clarity of the two lines. No. 4 and no. 8 are the next ones in difficulty.

See also this post:
https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=5143.msg49995#msg49995


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Re: Trying Bach, or its trying me [Re: Qazsedcft] #2824359
03/08/19 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Qazsedcft
Originally Posted by sinophilia
Good choice, no. 4 is the easiest one, and very melodic. Overall I like the minor ones best, especially no. 2 and no. 13.
Mind bending indeed!

The easiest by far is no. 1 and is almost always taught first because of the clarity of the two lines. No. 4 and no. 8 are the next ones in difficulty.

See also this post:
https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=5143.msg49995#msg49995


And no 2 is proving surprisingly tricky!


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Re: Trying Bach, or its trying me [Re: ShyPianist] #2824447
03/08/19 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by ShyPianist
Originally Posted by Qazsedcft
Originally Posted by sinophilia
Good choice, no. 4 is the easiest one, and very melodic. Overall I like the minor ones best, especially no. 2 and no. 13.
Mind bending indeed!

The easiest by far is no. 1 and is almost always taught first because of the clarity of the two lines. No. 4 and no. 8 are the next ones in difficulty.

See also this post:
https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=5143.msg49995#msg49995


And no

2 is proving surprisingly tricky!


Thanks. I was going to start at No1 but the book advised to go 4-8-3-1. I should have asked. Im surprised with the little progress ive made on No 4 and i will go from 1 next. Thank you for the link too. Ive searched here for a thread full of Bach like the "devoted to Chopin" we have but with no luck. I plan to resume that search tonight. So far its a really good study on fingering also. It goes from "why is this" to "ah, i get it" and im just 8 bars in.


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Re: Trying Bach, or its trying me [Re: Qazsedcft] #2825186
03/11/19 04:18 AM
03/11/19 04:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Qazsedcft

The easiest by far is no. 1 and is almost always taught first because of the clarity of the two lines. No. 4 and no. 8 are the next ones in difficulty.


Sorry, but I disagree. The rhythms in no. 1 are not easy at all, I mean the way the two hands fit together. No. 4 is very straightforward, the hands have the same rhythm or you have 2 notes in one hand and 1 in the other. And it's all D minor scales. Personally, it took me ages to really get no. 1 - in part because I started it too early, in my second year, but also because of the difficulty of putting the hands together.


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To create a beautiful sound, one must imagine it at first and then learn to produce fluid physical motions that breathe life into music. (Shirley Kirsten)
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Re: Trying Bach, or its trying me [Re: dobro] #2825209
03/11/19 05:53 AM
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Perhaps it depends on the person as to which one is the easiest.

I was able to pull together number 1 quickly and I think very nicely quite soon after returning to the piano from a 40 year break, and yes most of the time was spent getting the rhythm right. I remember enjoying Bach as a child but had not learnt the WTC no 1 while a child so it was completely new to me.

I have not looked at any other Bach pieces for playing. My piano music choices has been dominated by what I like to listen to and then discussing with my teacher about whether it won't be too much of a struggle for me to learn the piece.

Perhaps I need to find a recording of WTC and see what comes from that in terms of music to choose.


Learning Mendelssohn Song without Words Op. 19 No. 2, Schumann Bunte Blätter Stücklein Op. 99 No. 1. Jensen Sehnsucht Op. 8 No. 5. Schumann Kinderszenen Op15 No1, Von Fremden Ländern und Menschen.
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Re: Trying Bach, or its trying me [Re: KevinM] #2825211
03/11/19 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by KevinM
Perhaps it depends on the person as to which one is the easiest.

I was able to pull together number 1 quickly and I think very nicely quite soon after returning to the piano from a 40 year break, and yes most of the time was spent getting the rhythm right. I remember enjoying Bach as a child but had not learnt the WTC no 1 while a child so it was completely new to me.

I have not looked at any other Bach pieces for playing. My piano music choices has been dominated by what I like to listen to and then discussing with my teacher about whether it won't be too much of a struggle for me to learn the piece.

Perhaps I need to find a recording of WTC and see what comes from that in terms of music to choose.


I think people are talking about the two part inventions here. ;-)


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Re: Trying Bach, or its trying me [Re: ShyPianist] #2825214
03/11/19 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by ShyPianist


I think people are talking about the two part inventions here. ;-)


doh


Learning Mendelssohn Song without Words Op. 19 No. 2, Schumann Bunte Blätter Stücklein Op. 99 No. 1. Jensen Sehnsucht Op. 8 No. 5. Schumann Kinderszenen Op15 No1, Von Fremden Ländern und Menschen.
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Re: Trying Bach, or its trying me [Re: KevinM] #2825216
03/11/19 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by KevinM
Originally Posted by ShyPianist


I think people are talking about the two part inventions here. ;-)


doh

really, is that necessary?


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