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Originally Posted by gary93
Thank you for the input earlier about the S1000 vs FP-30 vs P125, vs ES110. Today I found my local piano store carries the ES110 and FP30, got a chance to play with them for a bit. I like the sound better on the ES110, but like the feel better on the FP30 (ES110 feels lighter, and have the key clicking noise when playing them, and without ivory).
Also found an FP140R in store, though its the same as FP30 just different look and style?
Man I don't know if I should pull the trigger on either the ES110, FP30, or FP140R.. or wait for little longer. (found FP30 with stand and 3 pedal for $780 USD, free ship and no tax, kinda tempting)
The video you guys shared kept me excited, and I feel like I would like to have a newer keyboard for the long run.

Of those I have played the FP30 and FP (is it FP? thought it was just F) 140 and preferred the sound of the F140 - it's on my 'possibles list' whereas the FP30 isn't, but that's just my preference, I guess.


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Originally Posted by JoeT
Which action you like more might change over time. OTOH you won't suddenly start to like a tin-can sound.

OTOH, you can always get a better sound by plugging into your computer (or iPhon/iPad if you have one)... you can never improve the action.

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Originally Posted by anotherscott
OTOH, you can always get a better sound by plugging into your computer (or iPhon/iPad if you have one)...

Only with spending more money.

Quote
you can never improve the action.

You can - by spending more money.

I seriously think that "Buy an instrument you don't like, because ... computers." is bad advice, especially to beginners.


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Originally Posted by JoeT
Originally Posted by anotherscott
OTOH, you can always get a better sound by plugging into your computer (or iPhon/iPad if you have one)...

Only with spending more money.

Quote
you can never improve the action.

You can - by spending more money.

I seriously think that "Buy an instrument you don't like, because ... computers." is bad advice, especially to beginners.

Why do you say that JoeT? I did that in week 2 of my learning piano last February, and I couldn't be happier. Hard to be any more of a beginner than two weeks into having touched a piano for the first time. For my piano (FP30), I spent $800 and about $150 or so (don't recall now) on Pianoteq. What could I have gotten instead for $950 that would have blown my socks off instead of making me quit piano for good after two weeks, which I came close to doing last February?

I think "...because of computers" is brilliant advice. I wish someone could have said it to me when I just got my FP30 instead of having me search all over the Internet for two weeks for a solution (this was 6 weeks before I discovered PW forums).


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Originally Posted by petebfrance
Of those I have played the FP30 and FP (is it FP? thought it was just F) 140 and preferred the sound of the F140 - it's on my 'possibles list' whereas the FP30 isn't, but that's just my preference, I guess.

You are correct, just f140 not fp140. I read the f140 has a slightly better speaker. Though I was only able to try with headphone cause the piano technician was tuning the pianos there.
I do like the f140 style, but the s1000 and fp30 portable style might be a good investment in the long run if I start doing weddings and gigs.
Being able to use 6 AA batteries on the s1000 could be a plus.

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Originally Posted by gary93
Being able to use 6 AA batteries on the s1000 could be a plus.

I'm planning on upgrading my FP30 to a Yamaha N1X or Kawai NV10 in the coming weeks, but I've been thinking of also getting a PX-S3000 with a nice travel case for the exact same reason - weight and battery powered portability for when I am on vaca. Interestingly enough, the PX-S3000 and the PX-S1000 are exactly the same weight: 24.7 lbs with battery.


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across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
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Originally Posted by JoeT
Originally Posted by anotherscott
OTOH, you can always get a better sound by plugging into your computer (or iPhone/iPad if you have one)...
Only with spending more money.

Often minimally so. Under $100 can get you the cabling and software you need for some very nice pianos.

Originally Posted by JoeT
Originally Posted by anotherscott
you can never improve the action.
You can - by spending more money.

Come on. Are you seriously going to suggest not to worry about buying a board with an unsatisfactory action, because you can always ditch it and buy something else?

Originally Posted by JoeT
I seriously think that "Buy an instrument you don't like, because ... computers." is bad advice, especially to beginners.

But if there is nothing in budget that has an action AND a sound you like... one can be cost-effectively fixable, the other cannot.


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Originally Posted by anotherscott
Originally Posted by JoeT
Originally Posted by anotherscott
OTOH, you can always get a better sound by plugging into your computer (or iPhone/iPad if you have one)...
Only with spending more money.

Often minimally so. Under $100 can get you the cabling and software you need for some very nice pianos.

Originally Posted by JoeT
Originally Posted by anotherscott
you can never improve the action.
You can - by spending more money.

Come on. Are you seriously going to suggest not to worry about buying a board with an unsatisfactory action, because you can always ditch it and buy something else?

I agree, anotherscott, that these two are not comparable. One involves expending a small-to-medium incremental cost, and the other involves jettisoning your sunk cost by buying an entire replacement, as there are no replaceable actions in digital pianos, and therefore these are a bit absurd in my book to put next to each other as parallel options. They are not parallel at all.


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across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
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Originally Posted by anotherscott
Originally Posted by JoeT
Originally Posted by anotherscott
you can never improve the action.
You can - by spending more money.

Come on. Are you seriously going to suggest not to worry about buying a board with an unsatisfactory action, because you can always ditch it and buy something else?


I didn't understand that comparison either.


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I believe JoeT is suggesting not to buy boards below 1000 usd, as it is money not well spent, either because of mediocre action and/or mediocre sound, and if you still want to buy below 1000 usd, that it does not matter what you buy as you will get used to whatever you buy. Not saying that it is my opinion, but that is what I understood from the discussion. However, not everyone has or is willing to spend 1500 USD or more, just to get a slightly better action and/or sound. I am still searching for a new DP, and I will compare below and above 1000 usd choices, but mainly because of action. The sound can indeed be modified by VST choices. Maybe we fool ourselves that below 1000 usd you can get quality choices, but it is fun away to search for it :-)

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I think JoeT meant that all these entry level actions are good enough, but not all the sound engines are.

Or maybe we could just wait for him to speak for himself.

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Originally Posted by FlexHank
that it does not matter what you buy as you will get used to whatever you buy.

If that was his point, this is not true. As an impulse buy, having previously never considered learning to play piano, I bought a Roland FP30 after only 10 mins of research off Amazon.com in Nov 2017. After having it sit boxed in the corner of a room for weeks, I unboxed and set it up finally in Feb 2018 and did not like the sound:
[Linked Image]
Thought about quitting piano since I didn't want to buy another DP and I wasn't sure if any DP would solve the above problem. Discovering the PW forum was still 6 weeks away at that time. Googling, I found VSTs, and finally that Pianoteq had a free trial. Tried it. It solved my problem lickety split, turning the above into:
[Linked Image]
Problem solved for $149, and I am still playing piano! If I had followed his advice, there would be one less piano student in the world right now. So I am completely convinced that he is wrong.



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across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
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Originally Posted by RodrigoPon
I think JoeT meant that all these entry level actions are good enough, but not all the sound engines are.

Indeed, paying less than 1000 bucks on your hardware gets you a certain class of (light carry weight) action. Not a single one there is like a real piano. You nevertheless get used to it (and upgrade at some later point).

As a beginner I was also told (not on PW) to be frugal with the hardware and fix the sound with apps. I still made a quite good choice by accident, but I consider this bad advice to beginners. It could have gone really wrong.

Especially when you're tight budget, you don't want to spend 100+ on an software. If you put that amount towards the hardware, you get a better tone and a better action. That's why I recommend searching for the hardware with the most likable tone for you, because it nets better overall results. I know this opinion is controversial here, wink but I'm still going to express it.

There is a similar thing, where some people (sometimes even teachers) discourage beginners from purchasing higher end digital pianos and recommend to stay under 1000, because "it's never going to play and sound like a piano and serious musicians buy (baby) grands anyway". This often goes along with "you're just paying for the nice case and inside it's all the same digital piano" and similar bad advice.


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Exactly, so you are saying, everything below 1000 usd is not close enough to be a real piano, so better to spend more.

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I agree that the 1000 price budget wont get me best of both world. I myself never thought of purchasing a DP, but need one for at least learning pieces and fingers, so action probably be my main focus.

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Originally Posted by JoeT
Especially when you're tight budget, you don't want to spend 100+ on an software. If you put that amount towards the hardware, you get a better tone and a better action.

The boards under consideration are "S1000 vs FP-30 vs P125, vs ES110" -- regardless of which one one favors out of that group, where's the option to spend about $100 more and get what most would think is a better tone AND a better action than any of those? (And the software option can be under $100, btw.)

Tha said, if you're going to upgrade the piano sound with software, you'll also have to think about how you want to hear it. Headphones always works. If you want to hear the software piano through the board's internal speakers, the board need to have audio input. Otherwise, you'll need some external speakers of some sort.

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Originally Posted by JoeT
Especially when you're tight budget, you don't want to spend 100+ on an software. If you put that amount towards the hardware, you get a better tone and a better action.

Let's use a real case as an example. In Nov 2017, I bought an FP30 for $850 USD. $100 more is $950. What could I have bought for $950 USD that would have had both a better tone and a better action? Even with the benefit of hindsight and the research I've done since my original purchase, I am convinced that such a creature does not exist, at least it did not in Nov 2017, but perhaps you'll change my mind. Yes?


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across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
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Many many posts, but has anyone played either of these pianos?

I am looking for feedback. I saw the PX1000 in the shop today, no price so maybe only for demo right now. I am no expert but because I currently have a CDP120, was certainly a lot nicer, but my CDP120 is second hand and quite beat up..

I'd be very interested in knowing how this "smart scaled hammer system" is different to the previous version. Even the Casio website don't tell you clearly, it is just all marketing garb.

Piano has very low sound from the speaker, which is understandable. I think the speakers are on the back of the unit, so not ideal in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by ahumdrumoflife
Many many posts, but has anyone played either of these pianos?

I am looking for feedback. I saw the PX1000 in the shop today, no price so maybe only for demo right now. I am no expert but because I currently have a CDP120, was certainly a lot nicer, but my CDP120 is second hand and quite beat up..

I'd be very interested in knowing how this "smart scaled hammer system" is different to the previous version. Even the Casio website don't tell you clearly, it is just all marketing garb.

Piano has very low sound from the speaker, which is understandable. I think the speakers are on the back of the unit, so not ideal in my opinion.

You mean you tried the new PX-S1000 in store? Where was it? I am sure lot of us want to give it a try. Were you also able to compare other keyboard they might have in store?
I read the S1000/ S3000 should have rear, also some front facing speaker grill right above the keys.

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Originally Posted by JoeT
Originally Posted by RosemaryGirl
I would say go with the action you like more, thus showing that we're all different! smile

Which action you like more might change over time. OTOH you won't suddenly start to like a tin-can sound.


To get back to this… I don't remember anybody mentioning a "tin-can sound". Of course, nobody here advised anyone to just buy something they hate the sound off.

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