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Re: Steinway Spiro RECORD now available on Model D ONLY [Re: GC13] #2811719
02/07/19 01:24 AM
02/07/19 01:24 AM
Joined: Feb 2019
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astrotoy Offline
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I've just joined the forum. I've just started investigating the Steinway Spirio Model B and visited our local Steinway Gallery to see and hear it demonstrated yesterday. After reading the PWF, I had been alerted to the issue of lack of recording on the Spirio Models M and B, since I am not interested in getting a Model D (too big for our home). That was the first question I asked. The good news is that the manager told me that the new Spirio R (recording version) at least for the Model B (didn't ask about the Model M) is set for release either at the end of this month or next month. He even sent me a pdf of their new brochure on the R. He and the brochure say that editing can be done on the ipad and recording and editing can be in the high resolution mode. Price will be $152K, $19K higher than the regular Spiro for a Model B. He also said that currently Spirios represent half of the sales of Steinways (I assume that means their new grands).

As you can see by my signature, one of our two grands is a Yamaha S400E (predecessor of the CF4) which we had built with a Disklavier mechanism way back in 1992, before the advent of the Pro mechanism, to allow us to record playing for posterity. We had considered a Model B (a Hamburg) when we bought our other grand back in 1985, but ended up with a Bosendorfer 225.

He also told me that the Spirio R will be able to store the playback files on the built in hard drive (which will also store the recorded files). This means the volume adjustment is instantaneous, while for a regular Spirio, the playback volume has a slight delay as the signal goes into the cloud and back.

It also accepts transmissions of live concerts and stored versions of live concerts that are planned for Spirio Rs that will be installed in concert halls in different locations. So the plan is that Spirio R owners (not sure whether that also includes non recording Spirio owners) will have some window of time to playback a concert that has been recorded on a Spirio by a performer.

Steinway is currently also uploading a few hours of newly recorded music once a month. I heard some of the material available including some of the dozen or so pieces by Yuja Wang (all were fairly short - no Hammerklavier) and some of the historic videos that they did using the Zenph technology. There were a few videos taken recently with artists whose playing had been captured by the Spirio.


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Re: Steinway Spiro RECORD now available on Model D ONLY [Re: GC13] #2811774
02/07/19 06:56 AM
02/07/19 06:56 AM
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Posts: 129
oldMH Offline
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There is a commercial market for B and D Steinways with players systems. They are purchased for installation in shopping malls, airports and building lobbies to entertain the masses. There are also wealthy individuals who don't play themselves but want a Steinway player in their home (or think the do but eventually tire of it and then the piano sits without being played for a couple years and starts to deteriorate). This is a small fraction of Steinway grands since most serious musicians do not want these contraptions inside the action of the piano.

Re: Steinway Spiro RECORD now available on Model D ONLY [Re: GC13] #2811960
02/07/19 02:21 PM
02/07/19 02:21 PM
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Indianapolis
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OP here. I think that's great that Steinway is now making Spirio R available on more models. Maybe this means that in some ways they are beginning to rethink the way they do some things in Astoria.

I know the differences between the way Spirio functions and its features (or lack thereof) have been discussed here on PW in the past. I had an interesting conversation about it with my piano technician the last time he came to tune my Model B. One of the first Model D Spirio R pianos available to the public out of NYC was sold last year to a local pianist here in our area who is also a customer of his. Steinway sent one of the lead technicians on Spirio to train the local technicians. While my guy isn't one of the dealer's preferred technicians, the customer requested that he be included in the training. So he was sharing some of the technical design and installation elements with me - how it works differently from other systems like PianoDisc, what he likes and dislikes about it. Overall, he likes the system, however there were a couple of installation decisions Steinway made that could have been done a little differently to minimize adjustment and regulation issues down the road as the pianos and the Spirio systems ages. One concern of his is the mounting of a hammer sensor under the screw of the hammer flange which he felt could be unstable and problematic down the road. He feels like Steinway will have to rethink some of these things down the road.

Maybe some other technicians will chime in with their thoughts.

Re: Steinway Spiro RECORD now available on Model D ONLY [Re: oldMH] #2812098
02/07/19 08:24 PM
02/07/19 08:24 PM
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astrotoy Offline
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Originally Posted by oldMH
There is a commercial market for B and D Steinways with players systems. They are purchased for installation in shopping malls, airports and building lobbies to entertain the masses. There are also wealthy individuals who don't play themselves but want a Steinway player in their home (or think the do but eventually tire of it and then the piano sits without being played for a couple years and starts to deteriorate). This is a small fraction of Steinway grands since most serious musicians do not want these contraptions inside the action of the piano.


With the Spirio representing between a third and half of Steinway's sales, it looks like it has rejuvenated the company. I am guessing that these sales mostly represent additional sales for Steinway. The serious pianist may still be buying a regular Steinway without the Spirio.

It will be interesting whether serious pianists will buy a Spirio R so they can record and edit themselves. Time will tell. If a person has the money to buy a new Steinway B, the Spirio mechanism, even with the record capability is not a crazy stretch, as was the Bosendorfer 290SE 35 years ago.


Boesendorfer 225 (1985)
Yamaha S400E (predecessor to CF4) Disklavier (1992)
Re: Steinway Spiro RECORD now available on Model D ONLY [Re: GC13] #2812154
02/08/19 12:03 AM
02/08/19 12:03 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 40
Corona CA
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Larry Hofer Offline
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Steinway had a D at the Namm show in Anaheim with the Record System. It was off by itself a bit so you could hear it a little better than what is normal at the Namm show.

They were openly inviting some really good pianists to try recording on it and I think most were very impressed with the playback.

While the piano was playing back what someone had just played, the iPad displayed what looked like an old fashioned player piano roll going across the screen from left to right instead of from top to bottom.

You could see all the notes you had just played going by as the piano played them back. By touching the screen you could stop the playback and then by touching any of the notes you could edit them.

They said the record will come in the B and D but not in the M


Larry Hofer
Hofer Piano Works
Corona CA
Re: Steinway Spiro RECORD now available on Model D ONLY [Re: Larry Hofer] #2812250
02/08/19 09:44 AM
02/08/19 09:44 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 11,542
Philadelphia/South Jersey
Rich Galassini Offline
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Originally Posted by Larry Hofer
Steinway had a D at the Namm show in Anaheim with the Record System. It was off by itself a bit so you could hear it a little better than what is normal at the Namm show.

They were openly inviting some really good pianists to try recording on it and I think most were very impressed with the playback.


They have had that display for a few years now.

When Steinway bought the Live LX technology from Wayne Stahnke they made a good move. Being a company firmly entrenched in the early 20th century at best, they could never come up with this technology on their own. It is not in their wheel house. The magnitude of Steinway going from distain for this technology to buying a system like this is not lost on me. It could literally turn out to be a move that saves the Steinway piano. But they still have mountains of work to do.

In contrast, I think it was 7 years go at the Yamaha breakfast at NAMM that Dionne Warwick performed with a pianist accompanist live and in real time from YASI in New York City. NAMM is in Anaheim, Ca. She was on video while the piano in the hall accompanied her on a CFX equipped with a Disklavier and the performance and the technology was flawless.

The following year, Elton John performed at NAMM to celebrate Yamaha's 125th anniversary and Disklavier owners worldwide could watch him play in their homes - in real time.

Today, a Disklavier owner can livestream from over 30 channels of high quality music of all genres, they can take remote lessons from a teacher anywhere on the planet, they can see and hear live performances on their piano - as well as years worth of archived performances, and create their own live performance, including video, with just their piano, an app., and an Ipad.

Incidentally, the Disklavier is also available on Bösendorfer pianos.

I don't think Steinway needs to be competitive with Disklavier for it to effect their sales and their bottom line. About 10 years ago over 1/3 of new Steinway pianos sold out of NY were equipped with the PianoDisc system. Today, I am told that over 1/3 of the new Steinway pianos sold out of NY have a Spirio system on them. It is a better system than the IQ, it is more expensive to the consumer, and it is much more profitable to Steinway, so if nothing else changes, it is already a win.

My 2 cents,





Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
(215) 991-0834 direct line
rich@cunninghampiano.com
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Re: Steinway Spiro RECORD now available on Model D ONLY [Re: GC13] #2812278
02/08/19 11:04 AM
02/08/19 11:04 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,454
Southwest
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I have a few questions about player and recording technology being installed at the factory or even afterward for the individual customer. I’ve often wondered about having PianoDisc installed on my Yamaha. I like the idea of having a professional playing my choice of music on my piano while we’re entertaining in our home. I’ve even considered trading in my C3 for a C3X with Disklavier. I’ve heard great things about the Spirio system on Steinway.
Some of my concerns are: will having a Disklavier system (or PianoDisc installed retroactively) change the action and feel of the piano? Will it be a headache for my tech when regulation is done? What happens when the technology changes? Does it accelerate the piano’s depreciation? Inquiring minds want to know?


J & J
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Re: Steinway Spiro RECORD now available on Model D ONLY [Re: j&j] #2812587
02/09/19 06:36 AM
02/09/19 06:36 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 11,542
Philadelphia/South Jersey
Rich Galassini Offline
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Originally Posted by j&j

Some of my concerns are: will having a Disklavier system (or PianoDisc installed retroactively) change the action and feel of the piano? Will it be a headache for my tech when regulation is done? What happens when the technology changes? Does it accelerate the piano’s depreciation? Inquiring minds want to know?


First, it depends on what you are expecting from the performance of the piano. Many people are very happy with the performance of an IQ system or a Pianomation system. But there is a difference between anything that is retrofit and something that is actually designed for the exact model of piano that you own. This becomes more important if you are planning on recording yourself (or anyone else) and/or expect a high level of reproduction in playback.

As far as action feel, during a retrofit installation there is always the possibility of having to adapt the regulation of the piano a bit to work best with the system. So you might feel a very small change in the action. The biggest thing to deal with is how the piano continues to play over time.

Remember that actions change slowly over time with play and even a little bit seasonally or daily because of changes in RH. The further an action gets from the point at which a player system is installed, the less accurate the playback will be. So, questions to consider:

1) How has each company you are considering planned on dealing with the wear and change of the piano's action over time? As pianists, we simply change the way we play.

2) Can the system self adjust to these changes? Can you do this adjusting on your own? Will you need a technician? Will this technician be someone other than your piano technician?

3) Are you considering recording on the piano? If so, how accurate is the recording/playback? Is there flexibility in how the recording is saved? Is it sharable?

4) Can the piano connect directly to the internet, allowing for live-streaming prerecorded - or really exciting stuff, like real time events?

5) Probably most importantly, does the system have a history of providing hardware/software updates so older systems can take advantage of new technologies?


I hope that helps a bit, j&j.


Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
(215) 991-0834 direct line
rich@cunninghampiano.com
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Re: Steinway Spiro RECORD now available on Model D ONLY [Re: GC13] #2812647
02/09/19 11:21 AM
02/09/19 11:21 AM
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Southwest
j&j Offline
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Rick - as always you are very helpful!! Thank you.
My thinking right now is that maybe oldMH is right on point. If I want Elton John playing his gigantic Yamaha in my living room, download it or play a CD through our high end stereo entertainment system and leave my acoustic piano alone.
Although the Spirio and newest Disklavier are so exciting and really tempting, I (somewhat ignorant of the true inner workings of acoustic pianos) am afraid that the marriage of an acoustic piano with electronics will age differently and twenty years later will be more disappointing than exciting. I’ve worked with electronics, computers, and networks all of my career and remember long evenings troubleshooting issues caused by retrofitting new electronic systems in old existing rooms, classrooms, and conference rooms. Maybe I’ll just keep my piano as is and continue to enjoy Disklavier and Spirio demos on Steinway Ds and CFXs.



J & J
Yamaha C3 PE
Casio Privia PX-330
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Re: Steinway Spiro RECORD now available on Model D ONLY [Re: GC13] #2812798
02/09/19 05:55 PM
02/09/19 05:55 PM
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Columbus, GA
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S. Phillips Offline
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The record feature is available on both the B and D.


Sally Phillips
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Re: Steinway Spiro RECORD now available on Model D ONLY [Re: S. Phillips] #2812984
02/10/19 04:40 AM
02/10/19 04:40 AM
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astrotoy Offline
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Originally Posted by S. Phillips
The record feature is available on both the B and D.


Thanks. Have you gotten a Spirio R Model B yet? My dealer is waiting for his first one. Also what is your experience with piano to piano variability in recent production Model B's. My wife has always liked the Hamburg Steinways better than the NY Steinways, but that was from experience 20 years and more ago. Our dealer said we could get a Spirio R Model B from Hamburg, but it won't be necessary since they are now so similar.


Last edited by astrotoy; 02/10/19 04:41 AM.

Boesendorfer 225 (1985)
Yamaha S400E (predecessor to CF4) Disklavier (1992)
Re: Steinway Spiro RECORD now available on Model D ONLY [Re: oldMH] #2813070
02/10/19 11:52 AM
02/10/19 11:52 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,963
Georgia, USA
terminaldegree Offline
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Originally Posted by oldMH
This is a small fraction of Steinway grands since most serious musicians do not want these contraptions inside the action of the piano.


Actually, I believe (from speaking with a couple of S&S dealers in the past 6 months) that Spirio comprises a significant percentage of model M and B sales right now, and significant numbers of these pianos are being built at the factory to match demand. Next to institutional sales, Spirio equipped models are probably the models of Steinway (excluding Boston + Essex) that move fastest on dealer floors, from what I'm seeing. To borrow from your quote, the overwhelming majority of "serious musicians" can't afford a new S&S. Although I don't really fancy these systems, I would feel more comfortable purchasing a piano that has a factory-installed system instead one that has been added.


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Re: Steinway Spiro RECORD now available on Model D ONLY [Re: GC13] #2813468
02/11/19 09:58 AM
02/11/19 09:58 AM
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Indianapolis
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GC13 Offline OP
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Indianapolis
I had the opportunity to play and record on a Model D Spiro over the weekend. Yet another one has been purchased by a local individual for their home. It was of course purchased form Astoria, and is sitting at the local dealer pending delivery to the home. (Oh to have that much spare $$$!). I've never recorded on any other systems, so I can't compare, but it was a cool experience. This D was very powerful and I liked the voicing on the piano, but the key weighting and regulation was a little off in my opinion. The action felt very stiff and heavy so I had a little problem adjusting my touch to it. I made a couple of videos of the playback. I'll post links to that in another thread. Afterwards, I sat down at the Model B sitting next to it, and that piano was a dream to play. It was regulated much like my personal model B (1981-rebuilt) at home.

Originally Posted by S. Phillips
The record feature is available on both the B and D.


So Sally, the report that record will be available on the Model M is incorrect?

Re: Steinway Spiro RECORD now available on Model D ONLY [Re: GC13] #2823442
03/06/19 06:44 PM
03/06/19 06:44 PM
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astrotoy Offline
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I got an email from the local Steinway dealer in my area (store is in Walnut Creek, CA near San Francisco) and he said that the Steinway B Spirio R (recorder) is scheduled to arrive in three weeks. They are getting one of the first two (the other is going to NYC). I am guessing that other dealers will be getting theirs after that.


Boesendorfer 225 (1985)
Yamaha S400E (predecessor to CF4) Disklavier (1992)
Re: Steinway Spiro RECORD now available on Model D ONLY [Re: astrotoy] #2823701
03/07/19 10:08 AM
03/07/19 10:08 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
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Indianapolis
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Originally Posted by astrotoy
I got an email from the local Steinway dealer in my area (store is in Walnut Creek, CA near San Francisco) and he said that the Steinway B Spirio R (recorder) is scheduled to arrive in three weeks. They are getting one of the first two (the other is going to NYC). I am guessing that other dealers will be getting theirs after that.


That's cool. Get in there to play it and let us know what you think. I'll be watching @ our local dealer. They usually get one of the early ones b/c the owner of our local store was once a senior regional sales manager in Astoria.

Re: Steinway Spiro RECORD now available on Model D ONLY [Re: GC13] #2823703
03/07/19 10:13 AM
03/07/19 10:13 AM
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Posts: 245
Taipei, Taiwan
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Kenny Cheng Offline
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I just saw an article yesterday:

https://www.keyboardmag.com/gear/st...OlrpiQApQ7219LoQMaNK2LplX1AclhlfzZii0a-s

It will be available in D and B.

Re: Steinway Spiro RECORD now available on Model D ONLY [Re: astrotoy] #2823742
03/07/19 11:58 AM
03/07/19 11:58 AM
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Danville, California
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Furtwangler Offline
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Originally Posted by astrotoy
I got an email from the local Steinway dealer in my area (store is in Walnut Creek, CA near San Francisco) and he said that the Steinway B Spirio R (recorder) is scheduled to arrive in three weeks. They are getting one of the first two (the other is going to NYC). I am guessing that other dealers will be getting theirs after that.


Wow. Exciting. And for just under $150,000 with tax (and additional delivery charges, of course).

I may not be able to sleep tonight.


Amateur Pianist and raconteur.
Re: Steinway Spiro RECORD now available on Model D ONLY [Re: Furtwangler] #2823838
03/07/19 03:58 PM
03/07/19 03:58 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,454
Southwest
j&j Offline
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Originally Posted by Furtwangler
Originally Posted by astrotoy
I got an email from the local Steinway dealer in my area (store is in Walnut Creek, CA near San Francisco) and he said that the Steinway B Spirio R (recorder) is scheduled to arrive in three weeks. They are getting one of the first two (the other is going to NYC). I am guessing that other dealers will be getting theirs after that.


Wow. Exciting. And for just under $150,000 with tax (and additional delivery charges, of course).

I may not be able to sleep tonight.



J & J
Yamaha C3 PE
Casio Privia PX-330
Pianos - the reason God made trees!
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