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Let us learn to work on the Internet #2822947 03/05/19 01:51 AM
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Vladimir Dounin Offline OP
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The Internet has changed everything in the world. Any kind of business today necessarily includes on line activities.

Music teachers will certainly be forced in the future to work mainly on line as well.
We need to be ready for this and learn to work on the Internet right now.

I suggest everyone to send me an audio or video recording of any works of any level of your students or of ANYONE else (from "Mary had a little lamb" to "Islamey" by Balakirev). I will listen and post here a response note with my corrections for our general discussion.

My email for submissions is: vladimir_and_music@yahoo.com

Everyone is welcomed
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Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: Vladimir Dounin] #2822955 03/05/19 02:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin
Music teachers will certainly be forced in the future to work mainly on line as well

Not in my lifetime!


Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: Vladimir Dounin] #2822961 03/05/19 03:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin
I suggest everyone to send me an audio or video recording of any works of any level

I might just do that in a couple of days! Thank you for your offer Vladimir.


Playing the piano is learning to create, playfully and deeply seriously, our own music in the world.
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... feeling like the pianist on the Titanic ...
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: AZNpiano] #2823122 03/05/19 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by AZNpiano
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin
Music teachers will certainly be forced in the future to work mainly on line as well

Not in my lifetime!


Meanwhile, more and more science is surfacing about the value of face-to-face contact. Humans are social animals, and some important things get lost in the ether. (I'm not going to go looking for citations, but I'm sure those interested can find them.) I think there's a reason why businesses keep paying for all those expensive airline seats to get people from place to place.

I hear that sales of paper books are going up too.


1989 Baldwin R
Currently working on:​
Schubert, Op. 90 no. 2
Sinding, Frühlingsrauschen (Rustle of Spring)
Beethoven, Sonata no. 14 in C# minor (Moonlight)
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: Vladimir Dounin] #2823135 03/05/19 01:23 PM
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Vladimir, some thoughts.

The Internet is indeed not going away, and for those of us born in pre-Internet days, we must get used to it. I'd like to suggest that communicating itself is an important skill to revamp. Suddenly we're international, across many cultures and languages, among people with mixed and varied backgrounds. Immense numbers of people read what is posted, and our words remain "forever". We can easily not be fully aware of this. After all, typically one sits in a room in utter privacy and in one's own environment.

I see quite a few problems in your proposal, namely this:

Originally Posted by vladimir
I suggest everyone to send me an audio or video recording of any works of any level of your students or of ANYONE else (from "Mary had a little lamb" to "Islamey" by Balakirev). I will listen and post here a response note with my corrections for our general discussion.


To start, you are addressing professional teachers. I know you are a pianist, but I don't know whether you are a teacher. These people would be your colleagues and thus your equals - some with the same knowledge and experience, some with more or different, some with less or different. But your proposal comes across as though you were their superior, since you plan to give your "corrections". This has to be insulting. It is also not an exchange - a conversation - where you are interested in what you might learn from them, while they learn from you. The Internet generally doesn't work that way. smile That is, if you had a teaching site and were inviting students, then that relationship would exist.

2) There is a relationship of trust between students and their teacher, and also protection of minors. When a student plays in front of his or her teacher, she expects that the only person who hears her, and assesses her, is her teacher. If there is an exam, a recital, or a competition, then the student has signed up for that, and for minors, it is with the parents' approval. You cannot expect teachers to share their students' playing with an absolute stranger, and then for public comment. Plus, for that kind of comment, would the video or audio end up here, in the public forum?

3) The teacher's reputation, which takes time to build and establish, and is very important. What teacher would want his students' work - therefore his own teaching - to be publicly critiqued, again by a stranger? I know that professionals do consult each other, and may have colleagues look at their work for critique (in any profession). But then you select someone whose reputation you know and trust, and it is done discretely in private.

These are the problems I see, and they also fall into Internet awareness (which you might not fully have).

There are other problems. A teacher may be having his students do things a certain way, in a given period, for pedagogic reasons while having an overall picture for the future. Anyone coming in from the outside cannot know these things (hopefully someone who is a teacher; but there are so many ways of teaching!)

If you are entertaining this idea at all, it should be TWO-WAY, where your colleagues also critique your work, your students' playing - multi-way, actually, since forums are dialogues. They are not one way conversations between a master having answers, and learners being critiqued, unless you have a teacher + his students kind of forum. This is the teacher forum, where teachers talk to each other.

You may not intend it this way, but it may well come across like this.

Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: keystring] #2823157 03/05/19 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by keystring
2) There is a relationship of trust between students and their teacher, and also protection of minors. When a student plays in front of his or her teacher, she expects that the only person who hears her, and assesses her, is her teacher. .


There would definitely need to be informed consent.

There was an interesting article on public radio this morning about children and social media presence. Children may not have any social accounts themselves, but proud parents posting cute photos results in them becoming public without knowing it. The elementary school age ones don't seem too upset but by middle school there is a lot of resentment developing.

The other side of it is that some of voluntarily submit our work for public comment. I think you have posted some performances on here or the other forum, or for a very good example of a page that I use look here:

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=44

Click on any of those threads, and you will see people submitting videos of their throws for anyone to comment on. The expertise of the commenters varies of course, but over time we've learned who really is knowledgable.


gotta go practice
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: AZNpiano] #2823196 03/06/19 01:27 AM
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Originally Posted by AZNpiano
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin
Music teachers will certainly be forced in the future to work mainly on line as well

Not in my lifetime!

NOR IN MINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: Vladimir Dounin] #2823198 03/06/19 01:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin

I suggest everyone to send me an audio or video recording of any works of any level of your students or of ANYONE else (from "Mary had a little lamb" to "Islamey" by Balakirev). I will listen and post here a response note with my corrections for our general discussion.

Right. I'm going to send thing to you for YOU to "correct" right? Because I don't know anything and should trust you as someone who does?

Are you out of your mind???

Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: Vladimir Dounin] #2823215 03/06/19 03:29 AM
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If teaching moves online as a first choice then the future of instrumental playing is truly sunk. And I’m no technophobe, I work in IT.


Pianist, independent music arranger, violinist, mother
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: Vladimir Dounin] #2823218 03/06/19 04:00 AM
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I think someone is advertising and touting for business. Worth a try?


Roland LX7

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Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: Vladimir Dounin] #2823238 03/06/19 06:03 AM
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I have sent a piece that I have played, and I am looking forward to the response. smile


Playing the piano is learning to create, playfully and deeply seriously, our own music in the world.
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... feeling like the pianist on the Titanic ...
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: AZNpiano] #2823250 03/06/19 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by AZNpiano
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin
Music teachers will certainly be forced in the future to work mainly on line as well

Not in my lifetime!


Mine either - not that there's a lot left for some of us old timers. <g>

And you know my theory about differential reinforcement of anticipatory goal response, which should make in person teaching more effective, but only when it's good.

But the other side is that we have potential that is just beginning to be tapped. Consider how Gary uses videos with his students, as described in the Mixo thread. Or how information is shared on this forum. I think we're a long way from figuring out how to make best use of the benefits.


gotta go practice
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: TimR] #2823299 03/06/19 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by TimR
But the other side is that we have potential that is just beginning to be tapped. Consider how Gary uses videos with his students, as described in the Mixo thread. Or how information is shared on this forum. I think we're a long way from figuring out how to make best use of the benefits.

Who's to say I'm not doing that already? The Internet is a tool, but a tool is only as good as the people that use it.

BTW, I'm not as old as you think.


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Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: AZNpiano] #2823314 03/06/19 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by AZNpiano
Originally Posted by TimR
But the other side is that we have potential that is just beginning to be tapped. Consider how Gary uses videos with his students, as described in the Mixo thread. Or how information is shared on this forum. I think we're a long way from figuring out how to make best use of the benefits.

Who's to say I'm not doing that already? The Internet is a tool, but a tool is only as good as the people that use it.

BTW, I'm not as old as you think.

For the record, AZN uses videos very well, so some of his work gave me the idea to exploit the use of the cell phone more often.

Credit where credit is due...

I think where I'm ahead of almost everyone is in collecting, editing and writing music. Most of the stuff in method books bores out of my forking mind!!!

Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: keystring] #2823316 03/06/19 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by keystring
Vladimir, some thoughts.

The Internet is indeed not going away, and for those of us born in pre-Internet days, we must get used to it. I'd like to suggest that communicating itself is an important skill to revamp. Suddenly we're international, across many cultures and languages, among people with mixed and varied backgrounds. Immense numbers of people read what is posted, and our words remain "forever". We can easily not be fully aware of this. After all, typically one sits in a room in utter privacy and in one's own environment.

I see quite a few problems in your proposal, namely this:

If you are entertaining this idea at all, it should be TWO-WAY, where your colleagues also critique your work, your students' playing - multi-way, actually, since forums are dialogues. They are not one way conversations between a master having answers, and learners being critiqued, unless you have a teacher + his students kind of forum. This is the teacher forum, where teachers talk to each other.

You may not intend it this way, but it may well come across like this.


I am a teacher as well and I know the situation in real (not in theory). I never would be interested in this kind of offer like mine, if I have no problem with my students in general, or with this particular student, or with this particular work that makes trouble for me and for my student. But I always will come to ANY (even, if I do not know him/her at all) another teacher next door to my class in the school and ask him/her (for example): "Don't you know a good fingering for my student with her tiny hands for this study?" Or "Could you listen/ please, to my student's pedal in these 3 bars? Is it all right in your opinion?" "Can you catch: what exactly is wrong in his left hand? Why does it sound so strange? What do you think?" Quite often, I ask absolute strangers to me: which way of my performing some particular spot in some piece do they like more? Because I perform my concerts not for myself but just for strangers. I need to know THEIR reaction.

Nothing insulting for me or for my neighbour is in such questions. Tomorrow he will come to my class with any his/her question and I will do my best to help him/her in turn. It is like asking your friend to check that the back of your coat is not dirty after you touched the newly painted wall with it.

I DO NOT ASK anyone to give me a real name of the student or teacher, I DO NOT NEED to see the whole body or face of the student and even his/her hands. Anonymous recording of ANYBODY (not necessary personally related to you) is absolutely all right.
I listen to the music and I suggest my corrections for this particular performance. No one is perfect. We must develop ability and skills to detect mistakes and find ways to fix these mistakes, if we want to grow but not to rot.

If we want to do - we find the ways. If don't - we find reasons and excuses.


Vladimir Dounin
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: ShyPianist] #2823325 03/06/19 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by ShyPianist
If teaching moves online as a first choice then the future of instrumental playing is truly sunk. And I’m no technophobe, I work in IT.


If you are not a technophobe, why not to try? I explained already that I do not need your real name, your photo or video. Just ANONYMOUS audio is enough.

I am not interested in personality and background. I need to know the best ways to teach from a distance, improve and develop them.

Take 1-2-3 lessons and then make judgement NOT BEFORE but AFTER: can it work or not? I know it already. Therefore I invite everyone interested.


Vladimir Dounin
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: Vladimir Dounin] #2823327 03/06/19 11:37 AM
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I don’t want lessons from anyone, in person or online, thank you. 😊 I was just making a general observation that I think it would be a terrible development for this to become the norm.


Pianist, independent music arranger, violinist, mother
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: Gary D.] #2823330 03/06/19 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Gary D.
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin

I suggest everyone to send me an audio or video recording of any works of any level of your students or of ANYONE else (from "Mary had a little lamb" to "Islamey" by Balakirev). I will listen and post here a response note with my corrections for our general discussion.

Right. I'm going to send thing to you for YOU to "correct" right? Because I don't know anything and should trust you as someone who does?

Are you out of your mind???


Why not to try? I explained already that I do not need your real name, your photo or video. Just ANONYMOUS audio is enough.

I am not interested in your personality and background. I need to know the best ways to teach from a distance, improve and develop them. And I need for this purpose people with DIFFERENT attitude towards this idea. Even with yours.


Vladimir Dounin
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: Vladimir Dounin] #2823342 03/06/19 11:59 AM
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Okay, let's say you hear a wrong note in bar 12. Do you say:

1) Mistake in bar 12.

2) Apply the key signature in bar 12.

3) Choose a better fingering in bar 12.

3) Move your thumb closer to the black keys in bar 12.

4) Curve your finger more to get between the black keys in bar 12.

5) Forget legato. Use a staccato to help you re-position your hand faster in bar 12.

Or are you really going to just say....

Mistake in bar 12

???


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Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: AZNpiano] #2823348 03/06/19 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by AZNpiano
Okay, let's say you hear a wrong note in bar 12. Do you say:

1) Mistake in bar 12.

2) Apply the key signature in bar 12.

3) Choose a better fingering in bar 12.

3) Move your thumb closer to the black keys in bar 12.

4) Curve your finger more to get between the black keys in bar 12.

5) Forget legato. Use a staccato to help you re-position your hand faster in bar 12.

Or are you really going to just say....

Mistake in bar 12

???

You forgot
6) Ask your teacher what's up with bar 12


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