Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Who's Online Now
95 registered members (Beakybird, anamnesis, BigIslandGuy, baudelairepianist, applelover, 26 invisible), 1,400 guests, and 5 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4
Let us learn to work on the Internet #2822947
03/05/19 02:51 AM
03/05/19 02:51 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
V
Vladimir Dounin Offline OP
Full Member
Vladimir Dounin  Offline OP
Full Member
V

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
The Internet has changed everything in the world. Any kind of business today necessarily includes on line activities.

Music teachers will certainly be forced in the future to work mainly on line as well.
We need to be ready for this and learn to work on the Internet right now.

I suggest everyone to send me an audio or video recording of any works of any level of your students or of ANYONE else (from "Mary had a little lamb" to "Islamey" by Balakirev). I will listen and post here a response note with my corrections for our general discussion.

My email for submissions is: vladimir_and_music@yahoo.com

Everyone is welcomed
Modify message


Vladimir Dounin
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: Vladimir Dounin] #2822955
03/05/19 03:39 AM
03/05/19 03:39 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,056
Orange County, CA
AZNpiano Offline
8000 Post Club Member
AZNpiano  Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,056
Orange County, CA
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin
Music teachers will certainly be forced in the future to work mainly on line as well

Not in my lifetime!


Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: Vladimir Dounin] #2822961
03/05/19 04:00 AM
03/05/19 04:00 AM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 509
Sweden
Animisha Offline
500 Post Club Member
Animisha  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 509
Sweden
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin
I suggest everyone to send me an audio or video recording of any works of any level

I might just do that in a couple of days! Thank you for your offer Vladimir.


Playing the piano is learning to create, playfully and deeply seriously, our own music in the world.
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: AZNpiano] #2823122
03/05/19 01:47 PM
03/05/19 01:47 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,874
Philadelphia, PA
J
jdw Offline
1000 Post Club Member
jdw  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
J

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,874
Philadelphia, PA
Originally Posted by AZNpiano
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin
Music teachers will certainly be forced in the future to work mainly on line as well

Not in my lifetime!


Meanwhile, more and more science is surfacing about the value of face-to-face contact. Humans are social animals, and some important things get lost in the ether. (I'm not going to go looking for citations, but I'm sure those interested can find them.) I think there's a reason why businesses keep paying for all those expensive airline seats to get people from place to place.

I hear that sales of paper books are going up too.


1989 Baldwin R
Currently working on:​
Schubert, Op. 90 no. 2
Sinding, Frühlingsrauschen (Rustle of Spring)
Beethoven, Sonata no. 14 in C# minor (Moonlight)
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: Vladimir Dounin] #2823135
03/05/19 02:23 PM
03/05/19 02:23 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,806
Canada
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
keystring  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,806
Canada
Vladimir, some thoughts.

The Internet is indeed not going away, and for those of us born in pre-Internet days, we must get used to it. I'd like to suggest that communicating itself is an important skill to revamp. Suddenly we're international, across many cultures and languages, among people with mixed and varied backgrounds. Immense numbers of people read what is posted, and our words remain "forever". We can easily not be fully aware of this. After all, typically one sits in a room in utter privacy and in one's own environment.

I see quite a few problems in your proposal, namely this:

Originally Posted by vladimir
I suggest everyone to send me an audio or video recording of any works of any level of your students or of ANYONE else (from "Mary had a little lamb" to "Islamey" by Balakirev). I will listen and post here a response note with my corrections for our general discussion.


To start, you are addressing professional teachers. I know you are a pianist, but I don't know whether you are a teacher. These people would be your colleagues and thus your equals - some with the same knowledge and experience, some with more or different, some with less or different. But your proposal comes across as though you were their superior, since you plan to give your "corrections". This has to be insulting. It is also not an exchange - a conversation - where you are interested in what you might learn from them, while they learn from you. The Internet generally doesn't work that way. smile That is, if you had a teaching site and were inviting students, then that relationship would exist.

2) There is a relationship of trust between students and their teacher, and also protection of minors. When a student plays in front of his or her teacher, she expects that the only person who hears her, and assesses her, is her teacher. If there is an exam, a recital, or a competition, then the student has signed up for that, and for minors, it is with the parents' approval. You cannot expect teachers to share their students' playing with an absolute stranger, and then for public comment. Plus, for that kind of comment, would the video or audio end up here, in the public forum?

3) The teacher's reputation, which takes time to build and establish, and is very important. What teacher would want his students' work - therefore his own teaching - to be publicly critiqued, again by a stranger? I know that professionals do consult each other, and may have colleagues look at their work for critique (in any profession). But then you select someone whose reputation you know and trust, and it is done discretely in private.

These are the problems I see, and they also fall into Internet awareness (which you might not fully have).

There are other problems. A teacher may be having his students do things a certain way, in a given period, for pedagogic reasons while having an overall picture for the future. Anyone coming in from the outside cannot know these things (hopefully someone who is a teacher; but there are so many ways of teaching!)

If you are entertaining this idea at all, it should be TWO-WAY, where your colleagues also critique your work, your students' playing - multi-way, actually, since forums are dialogues. They are not one way conversations between a master having answers, and learners being critiqued, unless you have a teacher + his students kind of forum. This is the teacher forum, where teachers talk to each other.

You may not intend it this way, but it may well come across like this.

Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: keystring] #2823157
03/05/19 03:58 PM
03/05/19 03:58 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,259
Virginia, USA
T
TimR Online content
4000 Post Club Member
TimR  Online Content
4000 Post Club Member
T

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,259
Virginia, USA
Originally Posted by keystring
2) There is a relationship of trust between students and their teacher, and also protection of minors. When a student plays in front of his or her teacher, she expects that the only person who hears her, and assesses her, is her teacher. .


There would definitely need to be informed consent.

There was an interesting article on public radio this morning about children and social media presence. Children may not have any social accounts themselves, but proud parents posting cute photos results in them becoming public without knowing it. The elementary school age ones don't seem too upset but by middle school there is a lot of resentment developing.

The other side of it is that some of voluntarily submit our work for public comment. I think you have posted some performances on here or the other forum, or for a very good example of a page that I use look here:

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=44

Click on any of those threads, and you will see people submitting videos of their throws for anyone to comment on. The expertise of the commenters varies of course, but over time we've learned who really is knowledgable.


gotta go practice
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: AZNpiano] #2823196
03/06/19 02:27 AM
03/06/19 02:27 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,521
South Florida
G
Gary D. Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Gary D.  Offline
6000 Post Club Member
G

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,521
South Florida
Originally Posted by AZNpiano
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin
Music teachers will certainly be forced in the future to work mainly on line as well

Not in my lifetime!

NOR IN MINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Piano Teacher
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: Vladimir Dounin] #2823198
03/06/19 02:29 AM
03/06/19 02:29 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,521
South Florida
G
Gary D. Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Gary D.  Offline
6000 Post Club Member
G

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,521
South Florida
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin

I suggest everyone to send me an audio or video recording of any works of any level of your students or of ANYONE else (from "Mary had a little lamb" to "Islamey" by Balakirev). I will listen and post here a response note with my corrections for our general discussion.

Right. I'm going to send thing to you for YOU to "correct" right? Because I don't know anything and should trust you as someone who does?

Are you out of your mind???


Piano Teacher
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: Vladimir Dounin] #2823215
03/06/19 04:29 AM
03/06/19 04:29 AM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 508
Scotland
S
ShyPianist Offline
500 Post Club Member
ShyPianist  Offline
500 Post Club Member
S

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 508
Scotland
If teaching moves online as a first choice then the future of instrumental playing is truly sunk. And I’m no technophobe, I work in IT.


“If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt) - stolen from Kreisler
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: Vladimir Dounin] #2823218
03/06/19 05:00 AM
03/06/19 05:00 AM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 714
South Wales
C
Colin Miles Offline
500 Post Club Member
Colin Miles  Offline
500 Post Club Member
C

Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 714
South Wales
I think someone is advertising and touting for business. Worth a try?


Roland LX7

South Wales, UK
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: Vladimir Dounin] #2823238
03/06/19 07:03 AM
03/06/19 07:03 AM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 509
Sweden
Animisha Offline
500 Post Club Member
Animisha  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 509
Sweden
I have sent a piece that I have played, and I am looking forward to the response. smile


Playing the piano is learning to create, playfully and deeply seriously, our own music in the world.
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: AZNpiano] #2823250
03/06/19 07:51 AM
03/06/19 07:51 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,259
Virginia, USA
T
TimR Online content
4000 Post Club Member
TimR  Online Content
4000 Post Club Member
T

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,259
Virginia, USA
Originally Posted by AZNpiano
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin
Music teachers will certainly be forced in the future to work mainly on line as well

Not in my lifetime!


Mine either - not that there's a lot left for some of us old timers. <g>

And you know my theory about differential reinforcement of anticipatory goal response, which should make in person teaching more effective, but only when it's good.

But the other side is that we have potential that is just beginning to be tapped. Consider how Gary uses videos with his students, as described in the Mixo thread. Or how information is shared on this forum. I think we're a long way from figuring out how to make best use of the benefits.


gotta go practice
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: TimR] #2823299
03/06/19 11:16 AM
03/06/19 11:16 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,056
Orange County, CA
AZNpiano Offline
8000 Post Club Member
AZNpiano  Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,056
Orange County, CA
Originally Posted by TimR
But the other side is that we have potential that is just beginning to be tapped. Consider how Gary uses videos with his students, as described in the Mixo thread. Or how information is shared on this forum. I think we're a long way from figuring out how to make best use of the benefits.

Who's to say I'm not doing that already? The Internet is a tool, but a tool is only as good as the people that use it.

BTW, I'm not as old as you think.


Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: AZNpiano] #2823314
03/06/19 12:04 PM
03/06/19 12:04 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,521
South Florida
G
Gary D. Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Gary D.  Offline
6000 Post Club Member
G

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,521
South Florida
Originally Posted by AZNpiano
Originally Posted by TimR
But the other side is that we have potential that is just beginning to be tapped. Consider how Gary uses videos with his students, as described in the Mixo thread. Or how information is shared on this forum. I think we're a long way from figuring out how to make best use of the benefits.

Who's to say I'm not doing that already? The Internet is a tool, but a tool is only as good as the people that use it.

BTW, I'm not as old as you think.

For the record, AZN uses videos very well, so some of his work gave me the idea to exploit the use of the cell phone more often.

Credit where credit is due...

I think where I'm ahead of almost everyone is in collecting, editing and writing music. Most of the stuff in method books bores out of my forking mind!!!


Piano Teacher
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: keystring] #2823316
03/06/19 12:21 PM
03/06/19 12:21 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
V
Vladimir Dounin Offline OP
Full Member
Vladimir Dounin  Offline OP
Full Member
V

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
Originally Posted by keystring
Vladimir, some thoughts.

The Internet is indeed not going away, and for those of us born in pre-Internet days, we must get used to it. I'd like to suggest that communicating itself is an important skill to revamp. Suddenly we're international, across many cultures and languages, among people with mixed and varied backgrounds. Immense numbers of people read what is posted, and our words remain "forever". We can easily not be fully aware of this. After all, typically one sits in a room in utter privacy and in one's own environment.

I see quite a few problems in your proposal, namely this:

If you are entertaining this idea at all, it should be TWO-WAY, where your colleagues also critique your work, your students' playing - multi-way, actually, since forums are dialogues. They are not one way conversations between a master having answers, and learners being critiqued, unless you have a teacher + his students kind of forum. This is the teacher forum, where teachers talk to each other.

You may not intend it this way, but it may well come across like this.


I am a teacher as well and I know the situation in real (not in theory). I never would be interested in this kind of offer like mine, if I have no problem with my students in general, or with this particular student, or with this particular work that makes trouble for me and for my student. But I always will come to ANY (even, if I do not know him/her at all) another teacher next door to my class in the school and ask him/her (for example): "Don't you know a good fingering for my student with her tiny hands for this study?" Or "Could you listen/ please, to my student's pedal in these 3 bars? Is it all right in your opinion?" "Can you catch: what exactly is wrong in his left hand? Why does it sound so strange? What do you think?" Quite often, I ask absolute strangers to me: which way of my performing some particular spot in some piece do they like more? Because I perform my concerts not for myself but just for strangers. I need to know THEIR reaction.

Nothing insulting for me or for my neighbour is in such questions. Tomorrow he will come to my class with any his/her question and I will do my best to help him/her in turn. It is like asking your friend to check that the back of your coat is not dirty after you touched the newly painted wall with it.

I DO NOT ASK anyone to give me a real name of the student or teacher, I DO NOT NEED to see the whole body or face of the student and even his/her hands. Anonymous recording of ANYBODY (not necessary personally related to you) is absolutely all right.
I listen to the music and I suggest my corrections for this particular performance. No one is perfect. We must develop ability and skills to detect mistakes and find ways to fix these mistakes, if we want to grow but not to rot.

If we want to do - we find the ways. If don't - we find reasons and excuses.


Vladimir Dounin
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: ShyPianist] #2823325
03/06/19 12:35 PM
03/06/19 12:35 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
V
Vladimir Dounin Offline OP
Full Member
Vladimir Dounin  Offline OP
Full Member
V

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
Originally Posted by ShyPianist
If teaching moves online as a first choice then the future of instrumental playing is truly sunk. And I’m no technophobe, I work in IT.


If you are not a technophobe, why not to try? I explained already that I do not need your real name, your photo or video. Just ANONYMOUS audio is enough.

I am not interested in personality and background. I need to know the best ways to teach from a distance, improve and develop them.

Take 1-2-3 lessons and then make judgement NOT BEFORE but AFTER: can it work or not? I know it already. Therefore I invite everyone interested.


Vladimir Dounin
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: Vladimir Dounin] #2823327
03/06/19 12:37 PM
03/06/19 12:37 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 508
Scotland
S
ShyPianist Offline
500 Post Club Member
ShyPianist  Offline
500 Post Club Member
S

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 508
Scotland
I don’t want lessons from anyone, in person or online, thank you. 😊 I was just making a general observation that I think it would be a terrible development for this to become the norm.


“If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt) - stolen from Kreisler
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: Gary D.] #2823330
03/06/19 12:41 PM
03/06/19 12:41 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
V
Vladimir Dounin Offline OP
Full Member
Vladimir Dounin  Offline OP
Full Member
V

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
Originally Posted by Gary D.
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin

I suggest everyone to send me an audio or video recording of any works of any level of your students or of ANYONE else (from "Mary had a little lamb" to "Islamey" by Balakirev). I will listen and post here a response note with my corrections for our general discussion.

Right. I'm going to send thing to you for YOU to "correct" right? Because I don't know anything and should trust you as someone who does?

Are you out of your mind???


Why not to try? I explained already that I do not need your real name, your photo or video. Just ANONYMOUS audio is enough.

I am not interested in your personality and background. I need to know the best ways to teach from a distance, improve and develop them. And I need for this purpose people with DIFFERENT attitude towards this idea. Even with yours.


Vladimir Dounin
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: Vladimir Dounin] #2823342
03/06/19 12:59 PM
03/06/19 12:59 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,056
Orange County, CA
AZNpiano Offline
8000 Post Club Member
AZNpiano  Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,056
Orange County, CA
Okay, let's say you hear a wrong note in bar 12. Do you say:

1) Mistake in bar 12.

2) Apply the key signature in bar 12.

3) Choose a better fingering in bar 12.

3) Move your thumb closer to the black keys in bar 12.

4) Curve your finger more to get between the black keys in bar 12.

5) Forget legato. Use a staccato to help you re-position your hand faster in bar 12.

Or are you really going to just say....

Mistake in bar 12

???


Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: AZNpiano] #2823348
03/06/19 01:18 PM
03/06/19 01:18 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,771
Boynton Beach, FL
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Morodiene  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,771
Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted by AZNpiano
Okay, let's say you hear a wrong note in bar 12. Do you say:

1) Mistake in bar 12.

2) Apply the key signature in bar 12.

3) Choose a better fingering in bar 12.

3) Move your thumb closer to the black keys in bar 12.

4) Curve your finger more to get between the black keys in bar 12.

5) Forget legato. Use a staccato to help you re-position your hand faster in bar 12.

Or are you really going to just say....

Mistake in bar 12

???

You forgot
6) Ask your teacher what's up with bar 12


private piano/voice teacher FT

[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: Vladimir Dounin] #2823359
03/06/19 01:52 PM
03/06/19 01:52 PM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 714
South Wales
C
Colin Miles Offline
500 Post Club Member
Colin Miles  Offline
500 Post Club Member
C

Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 714
South Wales
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin
I explained already that I do not need your real name, your photo or video. Just ANONYMOUS audio is enough.


Just Audio? This is both mind-boggling and, to my mind, extremely limiting if you are serious about online teaching since you are only getting a very small part of what is going on without any video. I can't imagine how it can be done.


Roland LX7

South Wales, UK
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: Colin Miles] #2823390
03/06/19 03:58 PM
03/06/19 03:58 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,259
Virginia, USA
T
TimR Online content
4000 Post Club Member
TimR  Online Content
4000 Post Club Member
T

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,259
Virginia, USA
Originally Posted by Colin Miles
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin
I explained already that I do not need your real name, your photo or video. Just ANONYMOUS audio is enough.


Just Audio? This is both mind-boggling and, to my mind, extremely limiting if you are serious about online teaching


I'm not sure he's talking about online teaching per se, as much as an online supplement to teaching, or even to self learning.

The reaction here is instant and unanimously negative, but there is some potential.

Also English is not his native language and while he types generally well there may be some nuances lost.


gotta go practice
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: TimR] #2823392
03/06/19 04:05 PM
03/06/19 04:05 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 508
Scotland
S
ShyPianist Offline
500 Post Club Member
ShyPianist  Offline
500 Post Club Member
S

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 508
Scotland
Originally Posted by TimR

I'm not sure he's talking about online teaching per se, as much as an online supplement to teaching, or even to self learning.

The reaction here is instant and unanimously negative, but there is some potential.

Also English is not his native language and while he types generally well there may be some nuances lost.


I can’t speak for others, but I was simply taking issue with this sentence “Music teachers will certainly be forced in the future to work mainly on line as well.” Because while sadly it may end up being true I think it must be resisted at all costs.


“If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt) - stolen from Kreisler
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: ShyPianist] #2823410
03/06/19 05:19 PM
03/06/19 05:19 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 4,379
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content


Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 4,379
Originally Posted by ShyPianist
I can’t speak for others, but I was simply taking issue with this sentence “Music teachers will certainly be forced in the future to work mainly on line as well.” Because while sadly it may end up being true I think it must be resisted at all costs.

Not clear what the ultimate result of resisting would be. Technology has changed life in both obvious and not immediately obvious ways. On a thread on the digital forum, someone had suggested calling a particular person from an online directory, and someone else was surprised and said something to the effect of, shouldn't the etiquette be to send an email first? But as was pointed out in that thread, what did people do before email? Just never call anyone?

In the area of education and learning, distance/online education is becoming more and more common and even omnipresent. My alma mater which is the oldest uni in the US, has even started online courses and even degrees can be had from "largely" online study - they decided that one should have a token physical presence at the university for a few weeks - big LOL.

Perhaps performance activities such as music and art will be among the last to fall, but I think the writing is on the wall, and resisting or not resisting will hardly change anything in the long-term, except maybe resisting will make you feel better wink


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2823413
03/06/19 05:34 PM
03/06/19 05:34 PM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 714
South Wales
C
Colin Miles Offline
500 Post Club Member
Colin Miles  Offline
500 Post Club Member
C

Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 714
South Wales
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Perhaps performance activities such as music and art will be among the last to fall, but I think the writing is on the wall, and resisting or not resisting will hardly change anything in the long-term, except maybe resisting will make you feel better wink

There are many subjects which may well be done better online. I have taken part in some myself. However, the idea of limiting it to just audio seems to me like trying to play with both hands tied behind your back. Yes, obviously the internet can be a vast resource and there are many very good piano teaching videos there - think of Graham Fitch, John Mortensen, Josh Wright - to name but three who I have found well listening and watching. But just the audio?


Roland LX7

South Wales, UK
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: Colin Miles] #2823415
03/06/19 05:44 PM
03/06/19 05:44 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 508
Scotland
S
ShyPianist Offline
500 Post Club Member
ShyPianist  Offline
500 Post Club Member
S

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 508
Scotland
Originally Posted by Colin Miles
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Perhaps performance activities such as music and art will be among the last to fall, but I think the writing is on the wall, and resisting or not resisting will hardly change anything in the long-term, except maybe resisting will make you feel better wink

There are many subjects which may well be done better online. I have taken part in some myself. However, the idea of limiting it to just audio seems to me like trying to play with both hands tied behind your back. Yes, obviously the internet can be a vast resource and there are many very good piano teaching videos there - think of Graham Fitch, John Mortensen, Josh Wright - to name but three who I have found well listening and watching. But just the audio?


But in the field of instrumental teaching and playing where is the imperative? Is the assumption that soon our air will be so poisoned and we will all be such social recluses that we can’t leave our homes? What about chamber music and orchestras? Are they to become virtual as well? Playing by video conference?

I can see there is a strong role for online courses in other subjects, including some musical subjects - theory, history, analysis, composition. But as for private instrumental lessons, you might as well suggest virtual dancing or gymnastics classes! (And yes I know they exist for fun, but I can’t see anyone seriously suggesting they could replace actual training).

Last edited by ShyPianist; 03/06/19 05:51 PM.

“If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt) - stolen from Kreisler
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: Vladimir Dounin] #2823420
03/06/19 06:07 PM
03/06/19 06:07 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,259
Virginia, USA
T
TimR Online content
4000 Post Club Member
TimR  Online Content
4000 Post Club Member
T

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,259
Virginia, USA
It seems to me that the force of the reaction here is out of proportion to the drawbacks of the suggestion.


gotta go practice
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: TimR] #2823422
03/06/19 06:10 PM
03/06/19 06:10 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 508
Scotland
S
ShyPianist Offline
500 Post Club Member
ShyPianist  Offline
500 Post Club Member
S

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 508
Scotland
Originally Posted by TimR
It seems to me that the force of the reaction here is out of proportion to the drawbacks of the suggestion.


Oh undoubtedly! I think perhaps the concept behind the thread pushed a few people’s buttons at the same time.


“If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt) - stolen from Kreisler
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: ShyPianist] #2823433
03/06/19 06:31 PM
03/06/19 06:31 PM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 714
South Wales
C
Colin Miles Offline
500 Post Club Member
Colin Miles  Offline
500 Post Club Member
C

Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 714
South Wales
Originally Posted by ShyPianist
Originally Posted by TimR
It seems to me that the force of the reaction here is out of proportion to the drawbacks of the suggestion.


Oh undoubtedly! I think perhaps the concept behind the thread pushed a few people’s buttons at the same time.


Indeed! There is some merit in even rubbish ideas as they make one think outside one's 'normal' boundaries.


Roland LX7

South Wales, UK
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: AZNpiano] #2823575
03/07/19 02:32 AM
03/07/19 02:32 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
V
Vladimir Dounin Offline OP
Full Member
Vladimir Dounin  Offline OP
Full Member
V

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
Originally Posted by AZNpiano
Okay, let's say you hear a wrong note in bar 12. Do you say:

1) .

2) Apply the key signature in bar 12.

3) Choose a better fingering in bar 12.

3) Move your thumb closer to the black keys in bar 12.

4) Curve your finger more to get between the black keys in bar 12.

5) Forget legato. Use a staccato to help you re-position your hand faster in bar 12.

Or are you really going to just say....

Mistake in bar 12

???


I am not a CHEATER. I am a TEACHER and do not steal money from my students, of course.

1)
Mistake in bar 12
. I recorded for you bars 9-16 twice. Please, tell me: do you like my first way to play or the second way? What exactly is different?
I know you as a good student and believe that you will not make me to feel a shame that my students can not read notes properly.

2)
Apply the key signature in bar 12.
I recorded for you bars 9-16 twice. Please, tell me: do you like my first way to play or the second way? What exactly is different?
I know you as a good student and believe that you will not make me to feel a shame that my students can not read notes properly.


3)
Choose a better fingering in bar 12.
Our fifth finger is too weak for this job. Try fourth or even first finger and tell me, with which one of these two do you feel yourself more confident. Let me listen to both of these fingers as well.

3)
Move your thumb closer to the black keys in bar 12. Try: A - to keep your thumb (in MY language - finger No1) as FAR as possible FROM the black keys. B - as close as possible TO the black keys. What is more convenient for you?

4)
Curve your finger more to get between the black keys in bar 12
. It is very difficult to play between black keys with straight fingers. Try to curve your finger more, let me to listen to both variants (with curved and with straight finger). What do you think about it, when do you feel yourself better?

5)
Forget legato. Use a staccato to help you re-position your hand faster in bar 12
. My teacher always told us that legato makes us clumsy, awkward and kills rhythm and articulation. I remembered these his words when listened to your bar 12.

Or are you really going to just
say...
write and play. I do not believe in effectiveness of spoken words.

Mistake in bar 12


Vladimir Dounin
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: Colin Miles] #2823581
03/07/19 02:59 AM
03/07/19 02:59 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
V
Vladimir Dounin Offline OP
Full Member
Vladimir Dounin  Offline OP
Full Member
V

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
Originally Posted by Colin Miles
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin
I explained already that I do not need your real name, your photo or video. Just ANONYMOUS audio is enough.


Just Audio? This is both mind-boggling and, to my mind, extremely limiting if you are serious about online teaching since you are only getting a very small part of what is going on without any video. I can't imagine how it can be done.


I had 3 blind students. The first one is only one of all my students who fetched the 12th but still Price at Tchaikovsky Competition and is an active concert pianist today.

The second was only one out of all students of that year at university, who got a job immediately. I have a special letter of the State Examiner on his "outstanding performance" at the State Exam.

The third one preferred eventually IT profession (more money) but had excellent marks for music.

Many pianists (I am one of them) like to play and practice with closed eyes. Experienced listeners do the same because our ears can not compete with eyes. Our brain prefers to focus on visual information and ears are out of focus, if eyes are open.

Good teacher can hear wrong fingering from another room, not only with closed eyes.

Why so many words around instead of practical testing?


Vladimir Dounin
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: Vladimir Dounin] #2823582
03/07/19 03:05 AM
03/07/19 03:05 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,806
Canada
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
keystring  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,806
Canada
Vladimir, your response to mine.
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin

I am a teacher as well and I know the situation in real (not in theory). I never would be interested in this kind of offer like mine, if I have no problem with my students in general, or with this particular student, .....

Nothing insulting for me or for my neighbour is in such questions. Tomorrow he will come to my class with any his/her question and I will do my best to help him/her in turn. It is like asking your friend to check that the back of your coat is not dirty after you touched the newly painted wall with it.......

Such scenarios are reasonable and normal. You are not coming across that way, and I tried to signal this to you. Your topic begins with the idea of the Internet, and it has its own situations of communication. You are an older person like myself, and we did not grow up in that age. It is usual, when joining a forum, to first participate in ongoing conversations, and then when starting a thread among peers, to have to go both directions. You are addressing fellow teachers as though they were students, or as though you were the master teacher and they your junior, and this will cause friction. It is how you presented things.

So you are saying here that if a teacher has a problem you would be interested in helping them. That is different than just saying "Share your students' playing and I'll tell you want is wrong." Perhaps you are trying to bring across your own ideas. Your intent is not clear, and I can't see it being received well in its present form - and that seems to be happening.

There are times when teachers do present problems, and usually it is a collaborative effort where several teachers weigh in, for an exchange of many ideas. That usually works better in forums.

Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: Vladimir Dounin] #2823586
03/07/19 03:28 AM
03/07/19 03:28 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,806
Canada
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
keystring  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,806
Canada
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin
Originally Posted by Colin Miles

Just Audio? This is both mind-boggling and, to my mind, extremely limiting if you are serious about online teaching since you are only getting a very small part of what is going on without any video. I can't imagine how it can be done.


I had 3 blind students. .......
Many pianists (I am one of them) like to play and practice with closed eyes.....

I don't think you said that you would only listen to audio, but that only audio was one of the choices that was fine for you.

In regard to this:As a student, my first playing was as a self-taught child since I was given a piano, some music, and left alone. When I returned to piano decades later, all the mis-learned physical habits were in there. I am relatively expressive in my playing and with simpler music can pull it off. It is only when a teacher sees the playing that they will see awkward motions and various clues for sure. I am experienced in working on-line with teachers and have done so with more than one. The visual absolutely is an essential component. It can even be such a thing as a student sitting too low or too close to the piano. Some clues in their playing may give you an idea they are doing that, but you can only be sure of what is going on when you see them. It is already harder remotely through a camera, than live where you can walk around.

I think "all the questions rather than submitting things" is because people are not certain about taking part in this, and don't quite understand what it might end up involving.

Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: keystring] #2823590
03/07/19 03:57 AM
03/07/19 03:57 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
V
Vladimir Dounin Offline OP
Full Member
Vladimir Dounin  Offline OP
Full Member
V

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
Originally Posted by keystring
Vladimir, your response to mine.
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin

I am a teacher as well and I know the situation in real (not in theory). I never would be interested in this kind of offer like mine, if I have no problem with my students in general, or with this particular student, .....

Nothing insulting for me or for my neighbour is in such questions. Tomorrow he will come to my class with any his/her question and I will do my best to help him/her in turn. It is like asking your friend to check that the back of your coat is not dirty after you touched the newly painted wall with it.......

Such scenarios are reasonable and normal. You are not coming across that way, and I tried to signal this to you. Your topic begins with the idea of the Internet, and it has its own situations of communication. You are an older person like myself, and we did not grow up in that age. It is usual, when joining a forum, to first participate in ongoing conversations, and then when starting a thread among peers, to have to go both directions. You are addressing fellow teachers as though they were students, or as though you were the master teacher and they your junior, and this will cause friction. It is how you presented things.

So you are saying here that if a teacher has a problem you would be interested in helping them. That is different than just saying "Share your students' playing and I'll tell you want is wrong." Perhaps you are trying to bring across your own ideas. Your intent is not clear, and I can't see it being received well in its present form - and that seems to be happening.

There are times when teachers do present problems, and usually it is a collaborative effort where several teachers weigh in, for an exchange of many ideas. That usually works better in forums.


You are right. My mistake was that I judged the others from my self. I like FREE offers, for me it is just a sign of confidence in your product. I am not afraid of FREE sampling in supermarket, of FREE checking of my car in garage, of FREE trial of somebody's services etc. If some medical doctor invited me for FREE check of my body - I will come.
However, for many people FREE means only a cheese in mouse trap. And they almost consider you a criminal for only the word FREE from your mouth.

I was sure that only people like myself would pay attention to my post and all the rest will just ignore it. I meant something like advertising in a newspaper: read ONLY, if you need it. However, everyone decided that I addressed namely to him/her, forced them to have unpleasant contact with me and was not gentle and polite enough to do so.

O.K., now I know it.


Vladimir Dounin
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: Vladimir Dounin] #2823597
03/07/19 04:31 AM
03/07/19 04:31 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,806
Canada
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
keystring  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,806
Canada
I also addressed the issue of audio vs. video, and do think this is important.

Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: keystring] #2823609
03/07/19 05:13 AM
03/07/19 05:13 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
V
Vladimir Dounin Offline OP
Full Member
Vladimir Dounin  Offline OP
Full Member
V

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
Originally Posted by keystring
[quote=Vladimir Dounin][quote=Colin Miles]

I don't think you said that you would only listen to audio, but that only audio was one of the choices that was fine for you.

In regard to this:As a student, my first playing was as a self-taught child since I was given a piano, some music, and left alone. When I returned to piano decades later, all the mis-learned physical habits were in there. I am relatively expressive in my playing and with simpler music can pull it off. It is only when a teacher sees the playing that they will see awkward motions and various clues for sure. I am experienced in working on-line with teachers and have done so with more than one. The visual absolutely is an essential component. It can even be such a thing as a student sitting too low or too close to the piano. Some clues in their playing may give you an idea they are doing that, but you can only be sure of what is going on when you see them. It is already harder remotely through a camera, than live where you can walk around.

I think "all the questions rather than submitting things" is because people are not certain about taking part in this, and don't quite understand what it might end up involving.


1. Each teacher plays a role of a "medical doctor" for "sick music". Somebody wants to be a doctor-generalist, who knows everything about all diseases, when another doctor prefers to be just a cardiologist but he really knows this job. I agree that the generalist would prefer video to audio but experienced cardiologist will diagnose your heart problem much better with only his primitive stethoscope.

I have my selfish interest here. I need to test my way of remote, "from a distance" treatment of extremely popular " musical infection" that is usually unknown to the musicians, and especially to the music teachers. But it kills their and their students music unnoticed with an effectiveness of cancer. From my many decades long experience I know that this kind of treatment is recognized and appreciated only AFTER the "removal of malicious tumor". People become amazed with the happy change in their health: "How could I live with this terrible tumor before? Now I understood what tormented me all these years!" etc. I do notneed to see my students. Audio- is enough for this diagnose and treatment.

But how to lure a patient to the operatic table, if he/she does not believe even in the very existence of this disease and all the doctors around do not believe as well? This is ONLY a problem with my treatment that I did not solved completely yet.

2. I started such lessons already in a format:
video to me - my suggestions and corrections to my student - next video to me done according to my corrections - again my corrections etc... Only AFTER BOTH of us are HAPPY with the results, our exclusively victorious exchange of videos will become available for public like a "set", like "one lesson in a class" (or on stage) on some particular piece. Everyone interested in playing or teaching this piece can see all our steps and the results on this chain of videos.

If I did not get OBVIOUS results at EACH lesson, my student will definitely quit our lessons and I worked for nothing. Fortunately, it NEVER happened.

3. Josef Hoffman told that pianist should learn from MANY teachers, the more - the better.
I took and take lessons from everyone, who wants to teach me (a lot of volunteers always are there around us). Even broken clock point an absolutely correct time twice in each 24 hours. Why then I should not take a lesson from you?


Vladimir Dounin
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: Vladimir Dounin] #2823614
03/07/19 05:30 AM
03/07/19 05:30 AM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 508
Scotland
S
ShyPianist Offline
500 Post Club Member
ShyPianist  Offline
500 Post Club Member
S

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 508
Scotland
Hi Vladimir

Now that you’ve explained some more (and I’ve Googled you!) I think I understand this a little better. My initial reaction and subsequent comments were railing against the idea that music tuition needs to be forced onto the internet just to meet the new expectations of wider society. But I see now this isn’t what it’s about.

I am more interested now. As someone who’s returning to serious and reasonably advanced playing after a long break, I don’t yet feel ready to share my efforts with anyone. But perhaps in time what you’re suggesting might be something I would consider. I’ll bookmark this thread. 😊

Last edited by ShyPianist; 03/07/19 05:31 AM.

“If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt) - stolen from Kreisler
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: Vladimir Dounin] #2823617
03/07/19 05:41 AM
03/07/19 05:41 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,806
Canada
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
keystring  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,806
Canada
Vladimir, your response to me isn't that satisfactory, in regard to visual. I am somewhat familiar with what you teach because I paid attention to some of your videos from a while back on PS and also the recent thread here and there on Fuer Elise. Your new thread involves correct notes (the D vs. E etc.) and also timing as well as articulation. I think the previous one one also had details of dynamics between notes and voices. Understanding and hearing are not enough. One must be physically capable of producing these things, and the clue as to why a student cannot produce them may well lie in physical things that can be seen. Audio is not enough if the cause for uneven notes (timing) or harsh sounds is due to what a student is doing physically.

Quote
But how to lure a patient to the operatic table, if he/she does not believe even in the very existence of this disease and all the doctors around do not believe as well? This is ONLY a problem with my treatment that I did not solved completely yet.


You could try not talking in riddles.

If there is a specific thing that you are after, tell the teachers here what it is, and then you will get interest from those who want to know abut that particular thing. Since these are teachers, including very competent and experienced ones, you might also get their ideas, which you might actually value.

Since I'm writing mainly as a student, I will yield the floor to the teachers here.

Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: keystring] #2823623
03/07/19 05:48 AM
03/07/19 05:48 AM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 508
Scotland
S
ShyPianist Offline
500 Post Club Member
ShyPianist  Offline
500 Post Club Member
S

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 508
Scotland
Similarly I’m not talking as a teacher, but I’m thinking that Vladimir is mostly aiming this at advanced students who mostly already know the “how” and could use assistance or alternative ideas for interpretation? I could be wrong of course, and the physical aspect of this is what led me to initially disagree strongly with the whole concept. I still do in that respect, although perhaps these days teachers are not allowed to make physical contact with their students anyhow?

I didn’t actually realise this was Vladimir of the Für Elise thread though.


“If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt) - stolen from Kreisler
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: Vladimir Dounin] #2823652
03/07/19 07:44 AM
03/07/19 07:44 AM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 509
Sweden
Animisha Offline
500 Post Club Member
Animisha  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 509
Sweden
Just to say that I have got friendly and interesting feedback from Vladimir on the video that I sent him (of myself playing). Now I have some new technique to practise in my piece.


Playing the piano is learning to create, playfully and deeply seriously, our own music in the world.
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: Animisha] #2823680
03/07/19 08:51 AM
03/07/19 08:51 AM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,187
*sigh* Salt Lake City
malkin Offline
5000 Post Club Member
malkin  Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,187
*sigh* Salt Lake City
Originally Posted by Animisha
Just to say that I have got friendly and interesting feedback from Vladimir on the video that I sent him (of myself playing). Now I have some new technique to practise in my piece.


Fair enough Animisha, but you're a student and not a teacher, right?

I read the initial post as being directed to teachers to send videos of their students and that didn't make sense to me. If a "teacher" couldn't figure out how to correct a student's playing without sending a video to someone else, then he or she needs to find another line of work.


Learner
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: malkin] #2823700
03/07/19 10:07 AM
03/07/19 10:07 AM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 509
Sweden
Animisha Offline
500 Post Club Member
Animisha  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 509
Sweden
Originally Posted by malkin
Fair enough Animisha, but you're a student and not a teacher, right?

Yes, I am very much a student. smile


Playing the piano is learning to create, playfully and deeply seriously, our own music in the world.
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: malkin] #2823715
03/07/19 10:41 AM
03/07/19 10:41 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,521
South Florida
G
Gary D. Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Gary D.  Offline
6000 Post Club Member
G

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,521
South Florida
This:
Originally Posted by malkin

If a "teacher" couldn't figure out how to correct a student's playing without sending a video to someone else, then he or she needs to find another line of work.

I'm going to nuance this a bit. Think of what happens in competitions, when students have to play before judges, who are usually just other teachers. I would ask for second opinions from experts I trust, but I would be very cautious about whom I would ask.

It wouldn't be someone I just met on the Net, not without building up a relationship and trust, and that would happen over time.

Vladimir may be amazing, or he may be a quack. That's the point. I don't know yet.


Piano Teacher
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: Vladimir Dounin] #2823719
03/07/19 10:50 AM
03/07/19 10:50 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,521
South Florida
G
Gary D. Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Gary D.  Offline
6000 Post Club Member
G

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,521
South Florida
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin
Audio- is enough for this diagnose and treatment.

Audio is all you need to know to hear what is musically wrong. When I listen to top pianists, I always listen eyes closed. I don't want to be influenced by what I see, which has nothing to do with what I care about, which is the sound. I tell students: "Most people hear with their eyes." This means that they THINK they hear something because of grand gestures, dramatic looks and so on.

BUT: for all players who do not have a world class technique, who have not solved nearly every physical problem, you have to look to see WHY things are going wrong. So I totally disagree with your idea about only listening to students. Here is just one point, and this is about a very VERY fine player. I was watching this man, who regularly plays with orchestras, and I noticed that his left foot was almost as far forward as it needs to be for the una corde when he was playing ff passages. I asked him why, and he did not know - and corrected it. It was a new, bad habit. Anyone can develop bad habits. That's why Federer, perhaps the best player we've ever seen in tennis, has a "super coach", and that's why he worked with Stephan Edberg when he was over the age of 30. Age 30 for a tennis player is about the equivalent of age 60 for a pianist.


Piano Teacher
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: Vladimir Dounin] #2823721
03/07/19 10:58 AM
03/07/19 10:58 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,521
South Florida
G
Gary D. Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Gary D.  Offline
6000 Post Club Member
G

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,521
South Florida
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin


I had 3 blind students. The first one is only one of all my students who fetched the 12th but still Price at Tchaikovsky Competition and is an active concert pianist today.

This has NOTHING to do with not watching your blind students, who have the same physical problems as the rest of us. If anything, they have to be even smarter about how they move.
Quote

Many pianists (I am one of them) like to play and practice with closed eyes.

And how does that work playing in a trio, quartet or quintet? How does it work playing any of an endless amount of pieces written for two or more players?

How does that work for the Chopin Op. 12 No. 1 Etude? Well, lets check...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsyGQYnvkMc

Let's see. Are his eyes closed? Would you play this with your eyes closed? Can you find one video of any fine player who is not watching his right hand like a hawk here? And if someone sent you audio playing this, with problems, would you claim to be able to "fix the cancer" without seeing said player?

WHAT would you play eyes closed?

And for GOD'S SAKE, stop talking in Russian riddles.


Piano Teacher
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: Vladimir Dounin] #2823933
03/07/19 06:30 PM
03/07/19 06:30 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,056
Orange County, CA
AZNpiano Offline
8000 Post Club Member
AZNpiano  Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,056
Orange County, CA
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin
I have my selfish interest here. I need to test my way of remote, "from a distance" treatment of extremely popular " musical infection" that is usually unknown to the musicians, and especially to the music teachers. But it kills their and their students music unnoticed with an effectiveness of cancer. From my many decades long experience I know that this kind of treatment is recognized and appreciated only AFTER the "removal of malicious tumor". People become amazed with the happy change in their health: "How could I live with this terrible tumor before? Now I understood what tormented me all these years!" etc. I do notneed to see my students. Audio- is enough for this diagnose and treatment.

This extended metaphor is beyond confused, and the excessive use of hyperbole is a complete turnoff.

It's like somebody SHOUTING ALL THE TIME in order to get attention. Ugh.

Until you figure how to communicate in a sensible fashion, it won't matter how much you know about piano. Nobody will understand you.


Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: ShyPianist] #2824006
03/07/19 09:48 PM
03/07/19 09:48 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
V
Vladimir Dounin Offline OP
Full Member
Vladimir Dounin  Offline OP
Full Member
V

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
Originally Posted by ShyPianist
Hi Vladimir

Now that you’ve explained some more (and I’ve Googled you!) I think I understand this a little better. My initial reaction and subsequent comments were railing against the idea that music tuition needs to be forced onto the internet just to meet the new expectations of wider society. But I see now this isn’t what it’s about.

I am more interested now. As someone who’s returning to serious and reasonably advanced playing after a long break, I don’t yet feel ready to share my efforts with anyone. But perhaps in time what you’re suggesting might be something I would consider. I’ll bookmark this thread. 😊


You are more than welcomed!


Vladimir Dounin
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: Gary D.] #2824009
03/07/19 09:58 PM
03/07/19 09:58 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
V
Vladimir Dounin Offline OP
Full Member
Vladimir Dounin  Offline OP
Full Member
V

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
Originally Posted by Gary D.
This:
Originally Posted by malkin

If a "teacher" couldn't figure out how to correct a student's playing without sending a video to someone else, then he or she needs to find another line of work.

I'm going to nuance this a bit. Think of what happens in competitions, when students have to play before judges, who are usually just other teachers. I would ask for second opinions from experts I trust, but I would be very cautious about whom I would ask.

It wouldn't be someone I just met on the Net, not without building up a relationship and trust, and that would happen over time.

Vladimir may be amazing, or he may be a quack. That's the point. I don't know yet.


I wrote already several times in different answers: "I DO NOT FIGHT WITH THE PEOPLE - I FIGHT ONLY WITH MISTAKES"
Even if I am a quack or anything worse than this, please DO NOT FIGHT WITH ME - FIGHT WITH MY IDEAS, MY METHODS, MY RESULTS, but give first a chance to show them to you!

Thanks!


Vladimir Dounin
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: AZNpiano] #2824015
03/07/19 10:12 PM
03/07/19 10:12 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
V
Vladimir Dounin Offline OP
Full Member
Vladimir Dounin  Offline OP
Full Member
V

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
Originally Posted by AZNpiano
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin
I have my selfish interest here. I need to test my way of remote, "from a distance" treatment of extremely popular " musical infection" that is usually unknown to the musicians, and especially to the music teachers. But it kills their and their students music unnoticed with an effectiveness of cancer. From my many decades long experience I know that this kind of treatment is recognized and appreciated only AFTER the "removal of malicious tumor". People become amazed with the happy change in their health: "How could I live with this terrible tumor before? Now I understood what tormented me all these years!" etc. I do notneed to see my students. Audio- is enough for this diagnose and treatment.

This extended metaphor is beyond confused, and the excessive use of hyperbole is a complete turnoff.

It's like somebody SHOUTING ALL THE TIME in order to get attention. Ugh.

Until you figure how to communicate in a sensible fashion, it won't matter how much you know about piano. Nobody will understand you.


Today, I can not show anything except metaphors because I recorded only a long audio with many pairs of familiar tunes plaid in opposite ways (healthy and sick versions) but did not convert it into video yet due to technical problems.

Please, wait a few days and I will post a video exactly on this topic instead of metaphors. If you do not mind to listen to the very short version of this audio (only 4 pairs) with my comments in Russian, please listen to them on https://vk.com/vladimirdunin


Vladimir Dounin
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: Vladimir Dounin] #2824018
03/07/19 10:18 PM
03/07/19 10:18 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
V
Vladimir Dounin Offline OP
Full Member
Vladimir Dounin  Offline OP
Full Member
V

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin
Originally Posted by AZNpiano
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin
I have my selfish interest here. I need to test my way of remote, "from a distance" treatment of extremely popular " musical infection" that is usually unknown to the musicians, and especially to the music teachers. But it kills their and their students music unnoticed with an effectiveness of cancer. From my many decades long experience I know that this kind of treatment is recognized and appreciated only AFTER the "removal of malicious tumor". People become amazed with the happy change in their health: "How could I live with this terrible tumor before? Now I understood what tormented me all these years!" etc. I do notneed to see my students. Audio- is enough for this diagnose and treatment.

This extended metaphor is beyond confused, and the excessive use of hyperbole is a complete turnoff.

It's like somebody SHOUTING ALL THE TIME in order to get attention. Ugh.

Until you figure how to communicate in a sensible fashion, it won't matter how much you know about piano. Nobody will understand you.


Today, I can not show anything except metaphors because I recorded only a long audio with many pairs of familiar tunes plaid in opposite ways (healthy and sick versions) but did not convert it into video yet due to technical problems.

Please, wait a few days and I will post a video exactly on this topic instead of metaphors. If you do not mind to listen to the very short version of this audio (only 4 pairs) with my comments in Russian, please listen to them on https://vk.com/vladimirdunin


Audio recording is HERE:


Владимир Дунин
Аудиоурок №1 - Правильное ударение в музыке (обучение нотам)[size:26pt][/size]


Vladimir Dounin
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: Gary D.] #2824074
03/08/19 03:04 AM
03/08/19 03:04 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
V
Vladimir Dounin Offline OP
Full Member
Vladimir Dounin  Offline OP
Full Member
V

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
Originally Posted by Gary D.
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin
Audio- is enough for this diagnose and treatment.

Audio is all you need to know to hear what is musically wrong. When I listen to top pianists, I always listen eyes closed. I don't want to be influenced by what I see, which has nothing to do with what I care about, which is the sound. I tell students: "Most people hear with their eyes." This means that they THINK they hear something because of grand gestures, dramatic looks and so on.
.


I agree 100% with every word you write here. But I was not going to teach someone the correct movements and position of the left leg.

I have a wonderful way to solve a certain PURELY MUSICAL problem in performing. The music teachers would never want to hear about it simply because they do not suspect its existence.

I see that almost everyone would never want me to show here this problem while listening to YOUR or YOUR STUDENTS' recordings.

Well, if I invite you to listen to a pairs of MY recordings "with a cancer tumor in them" and "without a cancer tumor", will you agree to listen to MY recordings, diagnose them and suggest your treatment?

In which way can I give MY PAIRS of RECORDINGS to listen to you in this forum? What do you prefer?


Vladimir Dounin
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: keystring] #2824075
03/08/19 03:06 AM
03/08/19 03:06 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
V
Vladimir Dounin Offline OP
Full Member
Vladimir Dounin  Offline OP
Full Member
V

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
Originally Posted by keystring
Vladimir, your response to mine.
[quote=Vladimir Dounin]
I am a teacher as well and I know the situation in real (not in theory). I never would be interested in this kind of offer like mine, if I have no problem with my students in general, or with this particular student, .....


There are times when teachers do present problems, and usually it is a collaborative effort where several teachers weigh in, for an exchange of many ideas. That usually works better in forums.


I agree 100% with every word you write here. But I was not going to teach someone the correct movements and position of the left leg.

I have a wonderful way to solve a certain PURELY MUSICAL problem in performing. The music teachers would never want to hear about it simply because they do not suspect its existence.

I see that almost everyone would never want me to show here this problem while listening to YOUR or YOUR STUDENTS' recordings.

Well, if I invite you to listen to a pairs of MY recordings "with a cancer tumor in them" and "without a cancer tumor", will you agree to listen to MY recordings, diagnose them and suggest your treatment?

In which way can I give MY PAIRS of RECORDINGS to listen to you in this forum? What do you prefer?


Vladimir Dounin
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: ShyPianist] #2824076
03/08/19 03:09 AM
03/08/19 03:09 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
V
Vladimir Dounin Offline OP
Full Member
Vladimir Dounin  Offline OP
Full Member
V

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
Originally Posted by ShyPianist
Hi Vladimir

Now that you’ve explained some more (and I’ve Googled you!) I think I understand this a little better. My initial reaction and subsequent comments were railing against the idea that music tuition needs to be forced onto the internet just to meet the new expectations of wider society. But I see now this isn’t what it’s about.

I am more interested now. As someone who’s returning to serious and reasonably advanced playing after a long break, I don’t yet feel ready to share my efforts with anyone. But perhaps in time what you’re suggesting might be something I would consider. I’ll bookmark this thread. 😊


I agree 100% with every word you write here. But I was not going to teach someone the correct movements and position of the left leg.

I have a wonderful way to solve a certain PURELY MUSICAL problem in performing. The music teachers would never want to hear about it simply because they do not suspect its existence.

I see that almost everyone would never want me to show here this problem while listening to YOUR or YOUR STUDENTS' recordings.

Well, if I invite you to listen to a pairs of MY recordings "with a cancer tumor in them" and "without a cancer tumor", will you agree to listen to MY recordings, diagnose them and suggest your treatment?

In which way can I give MY PAIRS of RECORDINGS to listen to you in this forum? What do you prefer?


Vladimir Dounin
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: keystring] #2824077
03/08/19 03:11 AM
03/08/19 03:11 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
V
Vladimir Dounin Offline OP
Full Member
Vladimir Dounin  Offline OP
Full Member
V

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
Originally Posted by keystring


You could try not talking in riddles.

If there is a specific thing that you are after, tell the teachers here what it is, and then you will get interest from those who want to know abut that particular thing. Since these are teachers, including very competent and experienced ones, you might also get their ideas, which you might actually value.

Since I'm writing mainly as a student, I will yield the floor to the teachers here.


I agree 100% with every word you write here. But I was not going to teach someone the correct movements and position of the left leg.

I have a wonderful way to solve a certain PURELY MUSICAL problem in performing. The music teachers would never want to hear about it simply because they do not suspect its existence.

I see that almost everyone would never want me to show here this problem while listening to YOUR or YOUR STUDENTS' recordings.

Well, if I invite you to listen to a pairs of MY recordings "with a cancer tumor in them" and "without a cancer tumor", will you agree to listen to MY recordings, diagnose them and suggest your treatment?

In which way can I give MY PAIRS of RECORDINGS to listen to you in this forum? What do you prefer?


Vladimir Dounin
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: Gary D.] #2824078
03/08/19 03:13 AM
03/08/19 03:13 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
V
Vladimir Dounin Offline OP
Full Member
Vladimir Dounin  Offline OP
Full Member
V

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
Originally Posted by Gary D.
This:
Originally Posted by malkin

If a "teacher" couldn't figure out how to correct a student's playing without sending a video to someone else, then he or she needs to find another line of work.

I'm going to nuance this a bit. Think of what happens in competitions, when students have to play before judges, who are usually just other teachers. I would ask for second opinions from experts I trust, but I would be very cautious about whom I would ask.

It wouldn't be someone I just met on the Net, not without building up a relationship and trust, and that would happen over time.

Vladimir may be amazing, or he may be a quack. That's the point. I don't know yet.


I agree 100% with every word you write here. But I was not going to teach someone the correct movements and position of the left leg.

I have a wonderful way to solve a certain PURELY MUSICAL problem in performing. The music teachers would never want to hear about it simply because they do not suspect its existence.

I see that almost everyone would never want me to show here this problem while listening to YOUR or YOUR STUDENTS' recordings.

Well, if I invite you to listen to a pairs of MY recordings "with a cancer tumor in them" and "without a cancer tumor", will you agree to listen to MY recordings, diagnose them and suggest your treatment?

In which way can I give MY PAIRS of RECORDINGS to listen to you in this forum? What do you prefer?


Vladimir Dounin
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: AZNpiano] #2824079
03/08/19 03:15 AM
03/08/19 03:15 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
V
Vladimir Dounin Offline OP
Full Member
Vladimir Dounin  Offline OP
Full Member
V

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
Originally Posted by AZNpiano
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin
I have my selfish interest here. I need to test my way of remote, "from a distance" treatment of extremely popular " musical infection" that is usually unknown to the musicians, and especially to the music teachers. But it kills their and their students music unnoticed with an effectiveness of cancer. From my many decades long experience I know that this kind of treatment is recognized and appreciated only AFTER the "removal of malicious tumor". People become amazed with the happy change in their health: "How could I live with this terrible tumor before? Now I understood what tormented me all these years!" etc. I do notneed to see my students. Audio- is enough for this diagnose and treatment.

This extended metaphor is beyond confused, and the excessive use of hyperbole is a complete turnoff.

It's like somebody SHOUTING ALL THE TIME in order to get attention. Ugh.

Until you figure how to communicate in a sensible fashion, it won't matter how much you know about piano. Nobody will understand you.


I agree 100% with every word you write here. But I was not going to teach someone the correct movements and position of the left leg.

I have a wonderful way to solve a certain PURELY MUSICAL problem in performing. The music teachers would never want to hear about it simply because they do not suspect its existence.

I see that almost everyone would never want me to show here this problem while listening to YOUR or YOUR STUDENTS' recordings.

Well, if I invite you to listen to a pairs of MY recordings "with a cancer tumor in them" and "without a cancer tumor", will you agree to listen to MY recordings, diagnose them and suggest your treatment?

In which way can I give MY PAIRS of RECORDINGS to listen to you in this forum? What do you prefer?


Vladimir Dounin
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: Vladimir Dounin] #2824096
03/08/19 04:23 AM
03/08/19 04:23 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,806
Canada
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
keystring  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,806
Canada
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin
Well, if I invite you to listen to a pairs of MY recordings "with a cancer tumor in them" and "without a cancer tumor", will you agree to listen to MY recordings, diagnose them and suggest your treatment?

In which way can I give MY PAIRS of RECORDINGS to listen to you in this forum? What do you prefer?


This is probably a much better and feasible idea than the previous one of using a teacher's student's recordings. Format - video links perhaps; shorter rather than longer if you are making them fresh. People are having trouble going through all the wording and video lengths in the Fuer Elise thread - short and to the point. (nature of Internet).

Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: keystring] #2824118
03/08/19 06:18 AM
03/08/19 06:18 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
V
Vladimir Dounin Offline OP
Full Member
Vladimir Dounin  Offline OP
Full Member
V

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
Originally Posted by keystring
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin
Well, if I invite you to listen to a pairs of MY recordings "with a cancer tumor in them" and "without a cancer tumor", will you agree to listen to MY recordings, diagnose them and suggest your treatment?

In which way can I give MY PAIRS of RECORDINGS to listen to you in this forum? What do you prefer?


This is probably a much better and feasible idea than the previous one of using a teacher's student's recordings. Format - video links perhaps; shorter rather than longer if you are making them fresh. People are having trouble going through all the wording and video lengths in the Fuer Elise thread - short and to the point. (nature of Internet).


And what about just audio? I did not insist on video in my previous posts. My face and body are absolutely unnecessary for understanding of my purely musical mistakes that I do deliberately on my "pairs of familiar to everyone melodies".

How can I bring here my audios?


Vladimir Dounin
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: Vladimir Dounin] #2824249
03/08/19 12:42 PM
03/08/19 12:42 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,806
Canada
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
keystring  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,806
Canada
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin
How can I bring here my audios?


Soundcloud, perhaps?

Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: keystring] #2825039
03/10/19 07:16 PM
03/10/19 07:16 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,259
Virginia, USA
T
TimR Online content
4000 Post Club Member
TimR  Online Content
4000 Post Club Member
T

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,259
Virginia, USA
Originally Posted by keystring
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin
How can I bring here my audios?


Soundcloud, perhaps?


Please do not use any method that causes me to load an app or get a membership in a site.

I use box.net to share files. Sending a link to a shared file lets someone listen to it without having access to everything else and without having to sign up for a login and password.

I think youtube has a privacy option but I haven't used it.


gotta go practice
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: Vladimir Dounin] #2825042
03/10/19 07:23 PM
03/10/19 07:23 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,259
Virginia, USA
T
TimR Online content
4000 Post Club Member
TimR  Online Content
4000 Post Club Member
T

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,259
Virginia, USA
This weekend I attended a lecture by a panel of three trombone professors.

Someone in the audience asked a question about Skype. One person said he had never tried it and had no need, given his clientele. Another said she hadn't used it yet but saw the potential and was going to start. She teaches in Montana where the distances are long and the population sparse. The third person is at a university down South who said he uses it heavily for three reasons: he can bring in a guest artist with less expense and inconvenience; he can continue to give lessons when he's traveling, and he's on the road performing a lot; he can work in a student who's on the road taking an audition or has a sudden problem.


gotta go practice
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: TimR] #2826985
03/14/19 10:57 PM
03/14/19 10:57 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
V
Vladimir Dounin Offline OP
Full Member
Vladimir Dounin  Offline OP
Full Member
V

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
Originally Posted by TimR
This weekend I attended a lecture by a panel of three trombone professors.

Someone in the audience asked a question about Skype. One person said he had never tried it and had no need, given his clientele. Another said she hadn't used it yet but saw the potential and was going to start. She teaches in Montana where the distances are long and the population sparse. The third person is at a university down South who said he uses it heavily for three reasons: he can bring in a guest artist with less expense and inconvenience; he can continue to give lessons when he's traveling, and he's on the road performing a lot; he can work in a student who's on the road taking an audition or has a sudden problem.


So, let us take example from the smartest one!


Vladimir Dounin
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: Vladimir Dounin] #2826993
03/14/19 11:36 PM
03/14/19 11:36 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,187
*sigh* Salt Lake City
malkin Offline
5000 Post Club Member
malkin  Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,187
*sigh* Salt Lake City
Mr. Dounin,
Would you not prefer to establish your own website where you could be the ultimate authority?


Learner
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: malkin] #2827200
03/15/19 01:37 PM
03/15/19 01:37 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
V
Vladimir Dounin Offline OP
Full Member
Vladimir Dounin  Offline OP
Full Member
V

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
Originally Posted by malkin
Mr. Dounin,
Would you not prefer to establish your own website where you could be the ultimate authority?


Some of my supporters has opened something like this for me on Russian server Yandex.ru vk.com/@vladimirdunin-besplatnye-uroki-muzyki-po-internetu (FREE music lessons on line).

However people know for sure that 2 X 2 makes 5 and only 5. Therefore they are not interested to listen to dissidents with crazy idea that 2 x 2 can make 4 as well. Unless ALL TV and newspapers will confirm this fact.


Vladimir Dounin
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: Vladimir Dounin] #2842366
04/25/19 03:24 PM
04/25/19 03:24 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 30
M
meaculpa Offline
Full Member
meaculpa  Offline
Full Member
M

Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 30
Mr Dounin.

The link you provided does not work.

However, I think your assumption is wrong that people are not interested to listen to dissidents with crazy ideas. I think that most people are quite happy and comfortable to have a music tutor sitting right there with them - a real presence if you like. So why would they disrupt all that by venturing to try something different? If they are having quality teaching in the home or at school?


Last edited by meaculpa; 04/25/19 03:27 PM.
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: meaculpa] #2842451
04/25/19 08:14 PM
04/25/19 08:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 2,161
In the Ozarks of Missouri
NobleHouse Offline
2000 Post Club Member
NobleHouse  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 2,161
In the Ozarks of Missouri
Originally Posted by meaculpa
Mr Dounin.

The link you provided does not work.

However, I think your assumption is wrong that people are not interested to listen to dissidents with crazy ideas. I think that most people are quite happy and comfortable to have a music tutor sitting right there with them - a real presence if you like. So why would they disrupt all that by venturing to try something different? If they are having quality teaching in the home or at school?



The link worked fine for me, albeit in Russian.


[Linked Image]
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: NobleHouse] #2842520
04/26/19 02:15 AM
04/26/19 02:15 AM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 30
M
meaculpa Offline
Full Member
meaculpa  Offline
Full Member
M

Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 30
Originally Posted by NobleHouse
Originally Posted by meaculpa
Mr Dounin.

The link you provided does not work.

However, I think your assumption is wrong that people are not interested to listen to dissidents with crazy ideas. I think that most people are quite happy and comfortable to have a music tutor sitting right there with them - a real presence if you like. So why would they disrupt all that by venturing to try something different? If they are having quality teaching in the home or at school?



The link worked fine for me, albeit in Russian.



Not for me. Did you copy the whole of the address?

Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: meaculpa] #2843004
04/27/19 02:05 PM
04/27/19 02:05 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,806
Canada
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
keystring  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,806
Canada
Originally Posted by meaculpa
However, I think your assumption is wrong that people are not interested to listen to dissidents with crazy ideas. ....

There are no crazy ideas, and there is no 2+2=5. I have seen two main ideas. One is that music in 4/4 time should not always stress the 1st and 3rd beat, and in the same vein, we shape our music through various forms of emphasis and refraining thereof. The other is that teaching can be done remotely. The first idea is standard, not unusual, and the second is already being done, including by teachers in this forum.

The link doesn't work for me either. However, I think that by googling the OP's name you will run into that site. I seem to remember having done so.

Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  Ken Knapp 

Shop Our Online Store!
Shop Our Store Online
Shop PianoSupplies.com

Did you know Piano World has an online store, and that it's loaded with goodies pianists and music lovers want?
Check it out and place your order.

Special Purchase!
Keyboard and Roses Piano Bench Cushion Keyboard & Roses 14"x30" piano bench cushions Regularly sold for $79 to $100, now only $39. (while supplies last)

(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Bechstein
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Why China is gripped by piano mania
by Tyrone Slothrop. 05/24/19 09:19 PM
Theory and practice
by Marpe. 05/24/19 08:39 PM
Is it possible to rebuild Steinway sound
by Coda9. 05/24/19 08:11 PM
Sulinda sl20 digital piano
by Medhead. 05/24/19 05:30 PM
Charles Walter question
by Chicago-BK. 05/24/19 05:13 PM
What's Hot!!
PIANO TEACHERS Please read this!
-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics192,143
Posts2,831,229
Members93,416
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

Sweetwater

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2019 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.2