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Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: Animisha] #2823680
03/07/19 08:51 AM
03/07/19 08:51 AM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,182
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Originally Posted by Animisha
Just to say that I have got friendly and interesting feedback from Vladimir on the video that I sent him (of myself playing). Now I have some new technique to practise in my piece.


Fair enough Animisha, but you're a student and not a teacher, right?

I read the initial post as being directed to teachers to send videos of their students and that didn't make sense to me. If a "teacher" couldn't figure out how to correct a student's playing without sending a video to someone else, then he or she needs to find another line of work.


Learner
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Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: malkin] #2823700
03/07/19 10:07 AM
03/07/19 10:07 AM
Joined: Jun 2018
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Sweden
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Originally Posted by malkin
Fair enough Animisha, but you're a student and not a teacher, right?

Yes, I am very much a student. smile


Playing the piano is learning to create, playfully and deeply seriously, our own music in the world.
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: malkin] #2823715
03/07/19 10:41 AM
03/07/19 10:41 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,521
South Florida
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Gary D. Offline
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This:
Originally Posted by malkin

If a "teacher" couldn't figure out how to correct a student's playing without sending a video to someone else, then he or she needs to find another line of work.

I'm going to nuance this a bit. Think of what happens in competitions, when students have to play before judges, who are usually just other teachers. I would ask for second opinions from experts I trust, but I would be very cautious about whom I would ask.

It wouldn't be someone I just met on the Net, not without building up a relationship and trust, and that would happen over time.

Vladimir may be amazing, or he may be a quack. That's the point. I don't know yet.


Piano Teacher
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: Vladimir Dounin] #2823719
03/07/19 10:50 AM
03/07/19 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin
Audio- is enough for this diagnose and treatment.

Audio is all you need to know to hear what is musically wrong. When I listen to top pianists, I always listen eyes closed. I don't want to be influenced by what I see, which has nothing to do with what I care about, which is the sound. I tell students: "Most people hear with their eyes." This means that they THINK they hear something because of grand gestures, dramatic looks and so on.

BUT: for all players who do not have a world class technique, who have not solved nearly every physical problem, you have to look to see WHY things are going wrong. So I totally disagree with your idea about only listening to students. Here is just one point, and this is about a very VERY fine player. I was watching this man, who regularly plays with orchestras, and I noticed that his left foot was almost as far forward as it needs to be for the una corde when he was playing ff passages. I asked him why, and he did not know - and corrected it. It was a new, bad habit. Anyone can develop bad habits. That's why Federer, perhaps the best player we've ever seen in tennis, has a "super coach", and that's why he worked with Stephan Edberg when he was over the age of 30. Age 30 for a tennis player is about the equivalent of age 60 for a pianist.


Piano Teacher
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: Vladimir Dounin] #2823721
03/07/19 10:58 AM
03/07/19 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin


I had 3 blind students. The first one is only one of all my students who fetched the 12th but still Price at Tchaikovsky Competition and is an active concert pianist today.

This has NOTHING to do with not watching your blind students, who have the same physical problems as the rest of us. If anything, they have to be even smarter about how they move.
Quote

Many pianists (I am one of them) like to play and practice with closed eyes.

And how does that work playing in a trio, quartet or quintet? How does it work playing any of an endless amount of pieces written for two or more players?

How does that work for the Chopin Op. 12 No. 1 Etude? Well, lets check...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsyGQYnvkMc

Let's see. Are his eyes closed? Would you play this with your eyes closed? Can you find one video of any fine player who is not watching his right hand like a hawk here? And if someone sent you audio playing this, with problems, would you claim to be able to "fix the cancer" without seeing said player?

WHAT would you play eyes closed?

And for GOD'S SAKE, stop talking in Russian riddles.


Piano Teacher
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: Vladimir Dounin] #2823933
03/07/19 06:30 PM
03/07/19 06:30 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,038
Orange County, CA
AZNpiano Online happy
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Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin
I have my selfish interest here. I need to test my way of remote, "from a distance" treatment of extremely popular " musical infection" that is usually unknown to the musicians, and especially to the music teachers. But it kills their and their students music unnoticed with an effectiveness of cancer. From my many decades long experience I know that this kind of treatment is recognized and appreciated only AFTER the "removal of malicious tumor". People become amazed with the happy change in their health: "How could I live with this terrible tumor before? Now I understood what tormented me all these years!" etc. I do notneed to see my students. Audio- is enough for this diagnose and treatment.

This extended metaphor is beyond confused, and the excessive use of hyperbole is a complete turnoff.

It's like somebody SHOUTING ALL THE TIME in order to get attention. Ugh.

Until you figure how to communicate in a sensible fashion, it won't matter how much you know about piano. Nobody will understand you.


Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: ShyPianist] #2824006
03/07/19 09:48 PM
03/07/19 09:48 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
V
Vladimir Dounin Offline OP
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Canada
Originally Posted by ShyPianist
Hi Vladimir

Now that you’ve explained some more (and I’ve Googled you!) I think I understand this a little better. My initial reaction and subsequent comments were railing against the idea that music tuition needs to be forced onto the internet just to meet the new expectations of wider society. But I see now this isn’t what it’s about.

I am more interested now. As someone who’s returning to serious and reasonably advanced playing after a long break, I don’t yet feel ready to share my efforts with anyone. But perhaps in time what you’re suggesting might be something I would consider. I’ll bookmark this thread. 😊


You are more than welcomed!


Vladimir Dounin
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: Gary D.] #2824009
03/07/19 09:58 PM
03/07/19 09:58 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
V
Vladimir Dounin Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
Originally Posted by Gary D.
This:
Originally Posted by malkin

If a "teacher" couldn't figure out how to correct a student's playing without sending a video to someone else, then he or she needs to find another line of work.

I'm going to nuance this a bit. Think of what happens in competitions, when students have to play before judges, who are usually just other teachers. I would ask for second opinions from experts I trust, but I would be very cautious about whom I would ask.

It wouldn't be someone I just met on the Net, not without building up a relationship and trust, and that would happen over time.

Vladimir may be amazing, or he may be a quack. That's the point. I don't know yet.


I wrote already several times in different answers: "I DO NOT FIGHT WITH THE PEOPLE - I FIGHT ONLY WITH MISTAKES"
Even if I am a quack or anything worse than this, please DO NOT FIGHT WITH ME - FIGHT WITH MY IDEAS, MY METHODS, MY RESULTS, but give first a chance to show them to you!

Thanks!


Vladimir Dounin
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: AZNpiano] #2824015
03/07/19 10:12 PM
03/07/19 10:12 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
V
Vladimir Dounin Offline OP
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Vladimir Dounin  Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2005
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Canada
Originally Posted by AZNpiano
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin
I have my selfish interest here. I need to test my way of remote, "from a distance" treatment of extremely popular " musical infection" that is usually unknown to the musicians, and especially to the music teachers. But it kills their and their students music unnoticed with an effectiveness of cancer. From my many decades long experience I know that this kind of treatment is recognized and appreciated only AFTER the "removal of malicious tumor". People become amazed with the happy change in their health: "How could I live with this terrible tumor before? Now I understood what tormented me all these years!" etc. I do notneed to see my students. Audio- is enough for this diagnose and treatment.

This extended metaphor is beyond confused, and the excessive use of hyperbole is a complete turnoff.

It's like somebody SHOUTING ALL THE TIME in order to get attention. Ugh.

Until you figure how to communicate in a sensible fashion, it won't matter how much you know about piano. Nobody will understand you.


Today, I can not show anything except metaphors because I recorded only a long audio with many pairs of familiar tunes plaid in opposite ways (healthy and sick versions) but did not convert it into video yet due to technical problems.

Please, wait a few days and I will post a video exactly on this topic instead of metaphors. If you do not mind to listen to the very short version of this audio (only 4 pairs) with my comments in Russian, please listen to them on https://vk.com/vladimirdunin


Vladimir Dounin
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: Vladimir Dounin] #2824018
03/07/19 10:18 PM
03/07/19 10:18 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
V
Vladimir Dounin Offline OP
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Vladimir Dounin  Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2005
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Canada
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin
Originally Posted by AZNpiano
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin
I have my selfish interest here. I need to test my way of remote, "from a distance" treatment of extremely popular " musical infection" that is usually unknown to the musicians, and especially to the music teachers. But it kills their and their students music unnoticed with an effectiveness of cancer. From my many decades long experience I know that this kind of treatment is recognized and appreciated only AFTER the "removal of malicious tumor". People become amazed with the happy change in their health: "How could I live with this terrible tumor before? Now I understood what tormented me all these years!" etc. I do notneed to see my students. Audio- is enough for this diagnose and treatment.

This extended metaphor is beyond confused, and the excessive use of hyperbole is a complete turnoff.

It's like somebody SHOUTING ALL THE TIME in order to get attention. Ugh.

Until you figure how to communicate in a sensible fashion, it won't matter how much you know about piano. Nobody will understand you.


Today, I can not show anything except metaphors because I recorded only a long audio with many pairs of familiar tunes plaid in opposite ways (healthy and sick versions) but did not convert it into video yet due to technical problems.

Please, wait a few days and I will post a video exactly on this topic instead of metaphors. If you do not mind to listen to the very short version of this audio (only 4 pairs) with my comments in Russian, please listen to them on https://vk.com/vladimirdunin


Audio recording is HERE:


Владимир Дунин
Аудиоурок №1 - Правильное ударение в музыке (обучение нотам)[size:26pt][/size]


Vladimir Dounin
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: Gary D.] #2824074
03/08/19 03:04 AM
03/08/19 03:04 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
V
Vladimir Dounin Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
Originally Posted by Gary D.
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin
Audio- is enough for this diagnose and treatment.

Audio is all you need to know to hear what is musically wrong. When I listen to top pianists, I always listen eyes closed. I don't want to be influenced by what I see, which has nothing to do with what I care about, which is the sound. I tell students: "Most people hear with their eyes." This means that they THINK they hear something because of grand gestures, dramatic looks and so on.
.


I agree 100% with every word you write here. But I was not going to teach someone the correct movements and position of the left leg.

I have a wonderful way to solve a certain PURELY MUSICAL problem in performing. The music teachers would never want to hear about it simply because they do not suspect its existence.

I see that almost everyone would never want me to show here this problem while listening to YOUR or YOUR STUDENTS' recordings.

Well, if I invite you to listen to a pairs of MY recordings "with a cancer tumor in them" and "without a cancer tumor", will you agree to listen to MY recordings, diagnose them and suggest your treatment?

In which way can I give MY PAIRS of RECORDINGS to listen to you in this forum? What do you prefer?


Vladimir Dounin
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: keystring] #2824075
03/08/19 03:06 AM
03/08/19 03:06 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
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Vladimir Dounin Offline OP
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Canada
Originally Posted by keystring
Vladimir, your response to mine.
[quote=Vladimir Dounin]
I am a teacher as well and I know the situation in real (not in theory). I never would be interested in this kind of offer like mine, if I have no problem with my students in general, or with this particular student, .....


There are times when teachers do present problems, and usually it is a collaborative effort where several teachers weigh in, for an exchange of many ideas. That usually works better in forums.


I agree 100% with every word you write here. But I was not going to teach someone the correct movements and position of the left leg.

I have a wonderful way to solve a certain PURELY MUSICAL problem in performing. The music teachers would never want to hear about it simply because they do not suspect its existence.

I see that almost everyone would never want me to show here this problem while listening to YOUR or YOUR STUDENTS' recordings.

Well, if I invite you to listen to a pairs of MY recordings "with a cancer tumor in them" and "without a cancer tumor", will you agree to listen to MY recordings, diagnose them and suggest your treatment?

In which way can I give MY PAIRS of RECORDINGS to listen to you in this forum? What do you prefer?


Vladimir Dounin
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: ShyPianist] #2824076
03/08/19 03:09 AM
03/08/19 03:09 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
V
Vladimir Dounin Offline OP
Full Member
Vladimir Dounin  Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
Originally Posted by ShyPianist
Hi Vladimir

Now that you’ve explained some more (and I’ve Googled you!) I think I understand this a little better. My initial reaction and subsequent comments were railing against the idea that music tuition needs to be forced onto the internet just to meet the new expectations of wider society. But I see now this isn’t what it’s about.

I am more interested now. As someone who’s returning to serious and reasonably advanced playing after a long break, I don’t yet feel ready to share my efforts with anyone. But perhaps in time what you’re suggesting might be something I would consider. I’ll bookmark this thread. 😊


I agree 100% with every word you write here. But I was not going to teach someone the correct movements and position of the left leg.

I have a wonderful way to solve a certain PURELY MUSICAL problem in performing. The music teachers would never want to hear about it simply because they do not suspect its existence.

I see that almost everyone would never want me to show here this problem while listening to YOUR or YOUR STUDENTS' recordings.

Well, if I invite you to listen to a pairs of MY recordings "with a cancer tumor in them" and "without a cancer tumor", will you agree to listen to MY recordings, diagnose them and suggest your treatment?

In which way can I give MY PAIRS of RECORDINGS to listen to you in this forum? What do you prefer?


Vladimir Dounin
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: keystring] #2824077
03/08/19 03:11 AM
03/08/19 03:11 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
V
Vladimir Dounin Offline OP
Full Member
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
Originally Posted by keystring


You could try not talking in riddles.

If there is a specific thing that you are after, tell the teachers here what it is, and then you will get interest from those who want to know abut that particular thing. Since these are teachers, including very competent and experienced ones, you might also get their ideas, which you might actually value.

Since I'm writing mainly as a student, I will yield the floor to the teachers here.


I agree 100% with every word you write here. But I was not going to teach someone the correct movements and position of the left leg.

I have a wonderful way to solve a certain PURELY MUSICAL problem in performing. The music teachers would never want to hear about it simply because they do not suspect its existence.

I see that almost everyone would never want me to show here this problem while listening to YOUR or YOUR STUDENTS' recordings.

Well, if I invite you to listen to a pairs of MY recordings "with a cancer tumor in them" and "without a cancer tumor", will you agree to listen to MY recordings, diagnose them and suggest your treatment?

In which way can I give MY PAIRS of RECORDINGS to listen to you in this forum? What do you prefer?


Vladimir Dounin
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: Gary D.] #2824078
03/08/19 03:13 AM
03/08/19 03:13 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
V
Vladimir Dounin Offline OP
Full Member
Vladimir Dounin  Offline OP
Full Member
V

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
Originally Posted by Gary D.
This:
Originally Posted by malkin

If a "teacher" couldn't figure out how to correct a student's playing without sending a video to someone else, then he or she needs to find another line of work.

I'm going to nuance this a bit. Think of what happens in competitions, when students have to play before judges, who are usually just other teachers. I would ask for second opinions from experts I trust, but I would be very cautious about whom I would ask.

It wouldn't be someone I just met on the Net, not without building up a relationship and trust, and that would happen over time.

Vladimir may be amazing, or he may be a quack. That's the point. I don't know yet.


I agree 100% with every word you write here. But I was not going to teach someone the correct movements and position of the left leg.

I have a wonderful way to solve a certain PURELY MUSICAL problem in performing. The music teachers would never want to hear about it simply because they do not suspect its existence.

I see that almost everyone would never want me to show here this problem while listening to YOUR or YOUR STUDENTS' recordings.

Well, if I invite you to listen to a pairs of MY recordings "with a cancer tumor in them" and "without a cancer tumor", will you agree to listen to MY recordings, diagnose them and suggest your treatment?

In which way can I give MY PAIRS of RECORDINGS to listen to you in this forum? What do you prefer?


Vladimir Dounin
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: AZNpiano] #2824079
03/08/19 03:15 AM
03/08/19 03:15 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
V
Vladimir Dounin Offline OP
Full Member
Vladimir Dounin  Offline OP
Full Member
V

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
Originally Posted by AZNpiano
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin
I have my selfish interest here. I need to test my way of remote, "from a distance" treatment of extremely popular " musical infection" that is usually unknown to the musicians, and especially to the music teachers. But it kills their and their students music unnoticed with an effectiveness of cancer. From my many decades long experience I know that this kind of treatment is recognized and appreciated only AFTER the "removal of malicious tumor". People become amazed with the happy change in their health: "How could I live with this terrible tumor before? Now I understood what tormented me all these years!" etc. I do notneed to see my students. Audio- is enough for this diagnose and treatment.

This extended metaphor is beyond confused, and the excessive use of hyperbole is a complete turnoff.

It's like somebody SHOUTING ALL THE TIME in order to get attention. Ugh.

Until you figure how to communicate in a sensible fashion, it won't matter how much you know about piano. Nobody will understand you.


I agree 100% with every word you write here. But I was not going to teach someone the correct movements and position of the left leg.

I have a wonderful way to solve a certain PURELY MUSICAL problem in performing. The music teachers would never want to hear about it simply because they do not suspect its existence.

I see that almost everyone would never want me to show here this problem while listening to YOUR or YOUR STUDENTS' recordings.

Well, if I invite you to listen to a pairs of MY recordings "with a cancer tumor in them" and "without a cancer tumor", will you agree to listen to MY recordings, diagnose them and suggest your treatment?

In which way can I give MY PAIRS of RECORDINGS to listen to you in this forum? What do you prefer?


Vladimir Dounin
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: Vladimir Dounin] #2824096
03/08/19 04:23 AM
03/08/19 04:23 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,788
Canada
keystring Offline
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Canada
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin
Well, if I invite you to listen to a pairs of MY recordings "with a cancer tumor in them" and "without a cancer tumor", will you agree to listen to MY recordings, diagnose them and suggest your treatment?

In which way can I give MY PAIRS of RECORDINGS to listen to you in this forum? What do you prefer?


This is probably a much better and feasible idea than the previous one of using a teacher's student's recordings. Format - video links perhaps; shorter rather than longer if you are making them fresh. People are having trouble going through all the wording and video lengths in the Fuer Elise thread - short and to the point. (nature of Internet).

Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: keystring] #2824118
03/08/19 06:18 AM
03/08/19 06:18 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 140
Canada
V
Vladimir Dounin Offline OP
Full Member
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Canada
Originally Posted by keystring
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin
Well, if I invite you to listen to a pairs of MY recordings "with a cancer tumor in them" and "without a cancer tumor", will you agree to listen to MY recordings, diagnose them and suggest your treatment?

In which way can I give MY PAIRS of RECORDINGS to listen to you in this forum? What do you prefer?


This is probably a much better and feasible idea than the previous one of using a teacher's student's recordings. Format - video links perhaps; shorter rather than longer if you are making them fresh. People are having trouble going through all the wording and video lengths in the Fuer Elise thread - short and to the point. (nature of Internet).


And what about just audio? I did not insist on video in my previous posts. My face and body are absolutely unnecessary for understanding of my purely musical mistakes that I do deliberately on my "pairs of familiar to everyone melodies".

How can I bring here my audios?


Vladimir Dounin
Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: Vladimir Dounin] #2824249
03/08/19 12:42 PM
03/08/19 12:42 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,788
Canada
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Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin
How can I bring here my audios?


Soundcloud, perhaps?

Re: Let us learn to work on the Internet [Re: keystring] #2825039
03/10/19 07:16 PM
03/10/19 07:16 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,258
Virginia, USA
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TimR Offline
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Originally Posted by keystring
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin
How can I bring here my audios?


Soundcloud, perhaps?


Please do not use any method that causes me to load an app or get a membership in a site.

I use box.net to share files. Sending a link to a shared file lets someone listen to it without having access to everything else and without having to sign up for a login and password.

I think youtube has a privacy option but I haven't used it.


gotta go practice
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