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Re: Chopin desert island
pianoloverus #2822066 03/02/19 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by JoelW
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
I agree his output is consistently great with maybe a few exceptions, but I don't think that makes him greater than some of the other really great composers for piano Bach, Beethoven, Mozart
I didn't claim it made him greater composer. What I do claim is that it explains why, on a piano forum, he's discussed more frequently. The number of truly great pieces he wrote far exceeds the number of equally great piano pieces written by anyone else. Also I don't consider Mozart's and Beethoven's piano music to be true piano music.
I think many and perhaps most would disagree with your last two sentences.
I'm one of the most and many. I'm curious,Joel, how do YOU define true "piano music?"


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Re: Chopin desert island
JoelW #2822070 03/02/19 06:32 PM
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To the OP: Which just shows how little you know of me, thus your assumption is both absurd and "is sad".

Not that I have to justify my thoughts to you, but I listen to Chopin every single day (as well as the other composers I mentioned). He is definitely a great composer in my opinion. I originally responded to pianoloverus comment "agreeing" with her/him. But I seemed to have "upset" you.

I will not waste any more time responding to this specific thread.



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Re: Chopin desert island
NobleHouse #2822078 03/02/19 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by NobleHouse
To the OP: Which just shows how little you know of me, thus your assumption is both absurd and "is sad".

Not that I have to justify my thoughts to you, but I listen to Chopin every single day (as well as the other composers I mentioned). He is definitely a great composer in my opinion. I originally responded to pianoloverus comment "agreeing" with her/him. But I seemed to have "upset" you.

I will not waste any more time responding to this specific thread.

I'm not upset at all. Perplexed maybe. I didn't mean any offense.

Re: Chopin desert island
JoelW #2822080 03/02/19 06:48 PM
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There is no music I wouldn't tire of pretty quickly on a desert island. If I couldn't have everything in my music library, I'd rather have nothing at all. Can you imagine listening to Chopin's Ballades, Nocturnes, Scherzos, Sonatas, and Preludes (my choices for this little exercise) over and over and over and over... tired crazy cursing I'd come away from that little exercise hating one of my favorite composers. No thanks!


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Re: Chopin desert island
JoelW #2822124 03/02/19 09:08 PM
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What's Saturday night if you can't have a good ruck about Chopin, eh?

Re: Chopin desert island
JoelW #2822186 03/03/19 02:48 AM
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I overdosed myself with Chopin before, so don't listen to him much anymore. Never really liked to play his music because my hands cannot do it justice. Don't mind hearing his music live and I do practice the Berceuse at the moment but my huge collection of Chopin recordings are mostly untouched these days...

Still, his pieces do play in my head regularly and sometimes come out as singing so I don't really need recordings on a desert island smile

Re: Chopin desert island
JoelW #2822197 03/03/19 04:11 AM
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Originally Posted by JoelW
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
None, since I think Chopin, as great a composer as he is, is very over discussed at PW. I get the impression that some posters are ignoring much of the other great music from the piano literature.

He's sort of our immortal god as pianists. His body of consistently great music is why he so talked about. No other piano writer managed to do that.

I visted his grave in Paris .There was a small group of young people, some were weeping .His grave always has flowers on it .

Re: Chopin desert island
Lady Bird #2822399 03/03/19 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
[...]
I visted his grave in Paris .There was a small group of young people, some were weeping .His grave always has flowers on it .


Taken the last time I was in Paris.

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Re: Chopin desert island
JoelW #2822472 03/03/19 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by JoelW
Originally Posted by NobleHouse
Originally Posted by JoelW
Please list those who are greater than Chopin.

Obviously just my opinion, but here goes: Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Liszt, Verdi, Puccini, Donizetti just to name a few. Again, just my personaly opinion. grin

Have you even heard Chopin beyond Op. 9 No. 2? This is just sad.

I can just say that NobleHouse listens to a great deal of music on this forum. He is I think highly perceptive and knowledgeable about piano music .

Re: Chopin desert island
JoelW #2822477 03/03/19 07:07 PM
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The great composers themselves were highly subjective about which composers are important .Ravel referred to Beethoven as "Oh you mean the deaf one "
Everything important they had to say is in thier music .It is only human to have preferences.

Re: Chopin desert island
Lady Bird #2822480 03/03/19 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Ravel referred to Beethoven as "Oh you mean the deaf one "


Wow! Did he really? I never knew that. I can imagine though. Ravel, in my opinion, always sounds beautiful. It seems to be a default characteristic of his idiom. Beethoven didn't seem to have the same aesthetics.

Re: Chopin desert island
JoelW #2822503 03/03/19 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by JoelW
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
I agree his output is consistently great with maybe a few exceptions, but I don't think that makes him greater than some of the other really great composers for piano Bach, Beethoven, Mozart

I didn't claim it made him greater composer. What I do claim is that it explains why, on a piano forum, he's discussed more frequently. The number of truly great pieces he wrote far exceeds the number of equally great piano pieces written by anyone else. Also I don't consider Mozart's and Beethoven's piano music to be true piano music.

So you don't consider Beethoven's 32 sonatas to be true piano music? Um, what?

Re: Chopin desert island
JoelW #2822508 03/03/19 08:20 PM
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I'm more curious about when guys throw Chopin into the fire to stay warm, and worry more about food and shelter on that island.
-chris


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Re: Chopin desert island
JoelW #2822512 03/03/19 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by JoelW
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
None, since I think Chopin, as great a composer as he is, is very over discussed at PW. I get the impression that some posters are ignoring much of the other great music from the piano literature.

He's sort of our immortal god as pianists. His body of consistently great music is why he so talked about. No other piano writer managed to do that.

Also to be brutally honest, as a "complete composer," Chopin is overrated. He couldn't orchestrate worth beans.

If Beethoven or Brahms spent all of their energies exclusively on solo piano, they would have been greater than Chopin ........

Last edited by AAC127; 03/03/19 08:33 PM.
Re: Chopin desert island
JoelW #2822524 03/03/19 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
None, since I think Chopin, as great a composer as he is, is very over discussed at PW. I get the impression that some posters are ignoring much of the other great music from the piano literature.

I couldn't agree with this more. I'm unashamedly a Lisztian because I find his piano works so much more varied and interesting than Chopin's. Chopin can write beautiful melodies - but that's it; while Liszt is by turns demonic, religious, morbid, ecstatic, frenzied, mesmeric, glorious, demented, romantic, cold, prophetic, impressionistic.

Re: Chopin desert island
AAC127 #2822539 03/03/19 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by AAC127
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
None, since I think Chopin, as great a composer as he is, is very over discussed at PW. I get the impression that some posters are ignoring much of the other great music from the piano literature.

I couldn't agree with this more. I'm unashamedly a Lisztian because I find his piano works so much more varied and interesting than Chopin's. Chopin can write beautiful melodies - but that's it; while Liszt is by turns demonic, religious, morbid, ecstatic, frenzied, mesmeric, glorious, demented, romantic, cold, prophetic, impressionistic.


I just subscribed to your YouTube channel.



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Re: Chopin desert island
AAC127 #2822541 03/03/19 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by AAC127
Originally Posted by JoelW
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
None, since I think Chopin, as great a composer as he is, is very over discussed at PW. I get the impression that some posters are ignoring much of the other great music from the piano literature.

He's sort of our immortal god as pianists. His body of consistently great music is why he so talked about. No other piano writer managed to do that.

Also to be brutally honest, as a "complete composer," Chopin is overrated. He couldn't orchestrate worth beans.

If Beethoven or Brahms spent all of their energies exclusively on solo piano, they would have been greater than Chopin ........

This is the funniest thing I've ever read.

Re: Chopin desert island
AAC127 #2822542 03/03/19 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by AAC127

If Beethoven or Brahms spent all of their energies exclusively on solo piano, they would have been greater than Chopin ........


Would have?

grin

Sorry. Couldn't resist!

grin

Re: Chopin desert island
JoelW #2822543 03/03/19 10:27 PM
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Why can they not just all exist on the same level and just have different flavours? The top tier guys, that is, like Chopin or Beethoven. What you guys are debating about is the equivalent of which ice cream flavour is the best (It's pistachio by the way, but that's beside the point).

No, Beethoven could not have done what Chopin did, and vice versa. Why? Because they were different human beings. They sound different.

Composers do not have to orchestrate in order to prove themselves. Nor do they have to write solo piano music. They are simply required to generate music in one form or another.

Chopin was a very acute specialist really. Beethoven not so much so. You need both types.

Re: Chopin desert island
JoelW #2822550 03/03/19 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by JoelW
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
None, since I think Chopin, as great a composer as he is, is very over discussed at PW. I get the impression that some posters are ignoring much of the other great music from the piano literature.
He's sort of our immortal god as pianists. His body of consistently great music is why he so talked about. No other piano writer managed to do that.
I dunno - from where I sit, Bach, Beethoven, Brahms, Schubert and Schumann are very much in the same league as Chopin when it comes to solo piano works, and Mozart too when factoring in piano concertos.
Originally Posted by AAC127
Also to be brutally honest, as a "complete composer," Chopin is overrated. He couldn't orchestrate worth beans. If Beethoven or Brahms spent all of their energies exclusively on solo piano, they would have been greater than Chopin ........
Well, we don't really know that.....and actually all three of these gents were geniuses. Beethoven and Brahms clearly were more "complete" composers in that they consistently created masterpieces in symphonic, choral, chamber music, and solo piano/concerto literature. But that doesn't make Chopin "overrated" or any less "great" just because he focused primarily on the piano.


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