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Re: CLP-645 defective keys [Re: Markuska] #2822225 03/03/19 06:26 AM
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Markuska Offline OP
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I tried it yesterday without headphones and its not hearable when playing. Maybe if you concentrate solely on it, but even then i am not sure. Ill just send the Video and a new on (from another Position https://youtu.be/Vk5zl6KtzCw ) to the dealer and Yamaha and ask if this is normal.

Maybe its a feedback tool, since it cant move when you correctly tap it from the top and not from the side😅 This is also why it may not be hearable while playing - because it just does not happen.

I am quite sure I am getting overanxious atm, but I think I have a reason for that smile

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Re: CLP-645 defective keys [Re: Markuska] #2822227 03/03/19 06:34 AM
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All my LP1 Yamaha pedals wiggle a bit sideways, including my standalone FC3 (a lot). Only the bundled FC4A seems to have lesser wiggle room. The Kawai F350 pedals OTOH are completely firm.


Yamaha P-515 | Kawai ES100 | Steinberg UR22 | Sony MDR-7506
Re: CLP-645 defective keys [Re: Markuska] #2822253 03/03/19 08:56 AM
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The pedal movement is normal from what I recall on the models below the x75 and x85 when I tried them, IIRC I think the pedals are the same for the 5 and 6 series. The x75 and x85 have different pedals which feel more solid.

this review demonstrates it also I recall.

https://youtu.be/mDNcw-qUzPI

Note: If you are a Yamaha fan you'll have to put up with a thorough roasting of the older 545 model from a pro pianist. I think the 645 is more or less the same, but with VRM and updated samples, something like that. I think the pedals and action are the same anyway.

Last edited by Alexander Borro; 03/03/19 08:56 AM.

Selftaught since June 2014.
Books: Barratt classic piano course bk 1,2,3. Humphries Piano handbook, various...
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Re: CLP-645 defective keys [Re: Alexander Borro] #2822257 03/03/19 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Alexander Borro

Note: If you are a Yamaha fan you'll have to put up with a thorough roasting of the older 545 model from a pro pianist. I think the 645 is more or less the same, but with VRM and updated samples, something like that. I think the pedals and action are the same anyway.

I watched this video before making my P-515 purchase. smile

Though some assessments of him are simply incorrect. There are no "small wooden pieces glued to plastic keys". It's exactly the opposite for the NWX white keys: There are fully wooden keysticks, which have plastic parts attached to them. If you remove the wood, you end up with the pivot assembly, a thin layer of surface and the hammer attachment with nothing to support it.

Also playing from the escapement works perfectly on my P-515.


Yamaha P-515 | Kawai ES100 | Steinberg UR22 | Sony MDR-7506
Re: CLP-645 defective keys [Re: Markuska] #2822260 03/03/19 09:16 AM
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Yes Joe, the "small wooden shims" thing circulated here for quite a while years ago. It's a myth that has mostly been dispelled, but it does seem to resurface now and then.

The other myth -- escapement --- has been around since I-don't-know-when. Aside from those few digitals that have the action of an acoustic (AG, NV, and a very few others) ... no digital has an escapement mechanism.

An honest presentation would call it a simulation ... and I think the ad copy does so. But the public seems to have elaborated the claim, fooling themselves into thinking there's an escapement mechanism. There isn't.

Re: CLP-645 defective keys [Re: JoeT] #2822263 03/03/19 09:29 AM
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Alexander Borro Offline
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JoeT, you are right. I remember there was a long thread here on the forum about that very topic, it was just silly, some people saying it was like a roland with the strips of wood inserted at the sides of the key, a long debate ensued.

If anyone looks carefully at pictures of NWX it seems very clear to me it is indeed a solid piece of wood suspended by some plastic holding it at the end, so it is not a full length wooden key, as in GF2, but the whole playing area and what is underneath the key tops is wood. The seams where it meets the plastic and lighting give it away in photos. The black keys however are plastic for anyone that cares, at least, that is what I recall from the 545.

The review was kinda done in a fun way and I had a few laughs, he is a pro after all, however I think it is somewhat harsh in some respects, for most amateurs it would suffice and still be a fine instrument.
Originally Posted by JoeT
Originally Posted by Alexander Borro

Note: If you are a Yamaha fan you'll have to put up with a thorough roasting of the older 545 model from a pro pianist. I think the 645 is more or less the same, but with VRM and updated samples, something like that. I think the pedals and action are the same anyway.

I watched this video before making my P-515 purchase. smile

Though some assessments of him are simply incorrect. There are no "small wooden pieces glued to plastic keys". It's exactly the opposite for the NWX white keys: There are fully wooden keysticks, which have plastic parts attached to them. If you remove the wood, you end up with the pivot assembly, a thin layer of surface and the hammer attachment with nothing to support it.

Also playing from the escapement works perfectly on my P-515.


edit: MMM already said it !

Last edited by Alexander Borro; 03/03/19 09:31 AM.

Selftaught since June 2014.
Books: Barratt classic piano course bk 1,2,3. Humphries Piano handbook, various...
Kawai CA78, Casio AP450 & software pianos.
[Linked Image] 12x ABF recitals.
My struggles: https://soundcloud.com/alexander-borro
Re: CLP-645 defective keys [Re: Alexander Borro] #2822279 03/03/19 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
The other myth -- escapement --- has been around since I-don't-know-when. Aside from those few digitals that have the action of an acoustic (AG, NV, and a very few others) ... no digital has an escapement mechanism.

Obviously there is just a fake escapement notch (what I meant with "escapement) and the review states, that you can't play from this notch, down to the bottom. He demonstrates this by showing how all his key presses from the middle of the key travel are silent. However if I repeat this experiment on my P-515 I get a tone on every key I try. So he most likely screwed up his settings.

Originally Posted by Alexander Borro
The black keys however are plastic for anyone that cares, at least, that is what I recall from the 545.

Indeed, this is completely obvious. It's plastic with an ebony texture.


Yamaha P-515 | Kawai ES100 | Steinberg UR22 | Sony MDR-7506
Re: CLP-645 defective keys [Re: Markuska] #2822333 03/03/19 11:47 AM
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Alexander Borro Offline
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Originally Posted by JoeT

Obviously there is just a fake escapement notch (what I meant with "escapement) and the review states, that you can't play from this notch, down to the bottom. He demonstrates this by showing how all his key presses from the middle of the key travel are silent. However if I repeat this experiment on my P-515 I get a tone on every key I try. So he most likely screwed up his settings.


How can this be screwed up via settings, is there something you can set to that effect ? Is it not solely determined by the sensor implementation and therefore there is nothing you can do about it. ?

Perhaps the action was tweaked in the 6 series and for the P515. IIRC GF2 was tweaked, GF1 also had that behaviour. I guess it is possible yamaha did something with the latest series, just speculating.

I would really think it is pretty minor for most players, but he makes a big deal out of it. Even if it is just fractionally above the point where the notch is felt, then what. I doubt the world would end for most players, even at advanced levels and grades.

My casio can't trigger a note quite as low down as my Kawai or repeat a note quite as low down, but it is marginal, it does not have the fake escapement notch either, but it never prevented me from playing anything in my up to intermediate repertoire to date with compromise just because of that feature. Now that I have a piano that can do it from the point where the notch is, the action in the Casio never gave me problems in terms of said feature, even on a real grand the aftertouch can vary a bit and how it feels.

I am not planning on playing Chopin etudes any time soon, or ever at that level. I started far too late for that, I doubt it would ever be an issue for me or many hobbyists.

It is easy to get hung up on small features in an action. There are after all other pro level players who have been perfectly okay with the 5xx CLP series in the past and didn't complain about it.


Selftaught since June 2014.
Books: Barratt classic piano course bk 1,2,3. Humphries Piano handbook, various...
Kawai CA78, Casio AP450 & software pianos.
[Linked Image] 12x ABF recitals.
My struggles: https://soundcloud.com/alexander-borro
Re: CLP-645 defective keys [Re: Markuska] #2824535 03/09/19 05:47 AM
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Wuhu, they are replacing it on wednesday!

Re: CLP-645 defective keys [Re: Markuska] #2824592 03/09/19 11:34 AM
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http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2768170/strange-click-on-brand-new-keyboard.html

I don’t feel like carrying another heavy box up and down my first floor flat. I think this happens for a lack of proper quality control. A shame.


Jaime CLP-645 😃
Re: CLP-645 defective keys [Re: Markuska] #2826270 03/13/19 11:28 AM
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Markuska Offline OP
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I dont know whats wrong with my piano karma.
I got it replaced today and it has exactly the same issue. I dont know where the error lies. If its Yamahas QC, the retailer, the shipping, whatever - but it still has the same clicking sound: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwGY8juN2uw

Since replacement does not seem to work, I wrote that I demand someone official from Yamaha to come and fix it in a permanent way during the next 7 days. And I think that I am more than reasonable with this demand. Otherwise I guess I will have them pick it up and check if I can demand the price difference between them and another vendor (I dont get this speicifc law that we have here, I would have to ask a lawyer). Maybe (most likely depending on Yamahas response) I would also just take my full money back, get Casio160 or something like that, and save for an acoustic. Im tired of all of this tbh.

I cant believe how f***ing hard it is to spend €2000 for something that works.

P.S.:the keys also look weird, since their direction does not seem uniform
[img]https://imgur.com/jLOrZu1[/img]

Re: CLP-645 defective keys [Re: Markuska] #2826273 03/13/19 11:40 AM
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I am so sorry to hear of your tail of woe Markus. Wish I had something to offer more than my sympathy.

Kevin

Re: CLP-645 defective keys [Re: Markuska] #2826275 03/13/19 11:46 AM
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I haven't followed this thread and the actual problem, so forgive me if that has already been discussed but are you sure this is actually a problem? Every hammer action makes some noise when the sound is off and I think that's normal. There's no way to know from your video if the knocking is too loud unless we have a reference point but since you're having a second unit with the same problem and it seems the entire keyboard behaves like that and not just isolated keys, it might be that all is normal and that's how NWX behaves.

Last edited by CyberGene; 03/13/19 11:47 AM.

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Re: CLP-645 defective keys [Re: Markuska] #2826283 03/13/19 12:01 PM
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Its not the knocking, its the clicking. And its different on different keys. And when I mentioned it to Yamaha and the dealer with the videos it was replaced, with an explanation of the dealer why this may have happened. So they seem to see the problem too.

And I just hope that Yamaha wont reply with "our keyboards click so loud, that you hear it over the volume of a CLP645". I also never experienced this in any store and I played 645s in at least 3.

Re: CLP-645 defective keys [Re: Markuska] #2826284 03/13/19 12:05 PM
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The only thing I can think of is that the delivery people in your area load the piano onto the delivery truck on one end and this isn't good for the keys. It makes no sense to me.

Kevin

Re: CLP-645 defective keys [Re: Markuska] #2826285 03/13/19 12:10 PM
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Definitely a *insert expletive* dud again - there's no way anyone would dispute that clicking sound...thud totally, click though, no!

@Cybergene, there are a few active users here (JoeT & Greg) who have a P515 with the same action would love to hear them say they have the same issue and are totally fine with it...I do not think that is how the NWX action plays...

Re: CLP-645 defective keys [Re: Markuska] #2826340 03/13/19 02:14 PM
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Retailer just told me this is normal and sent me a video of a CLP in his store and told me that this cant be hearable while playing (which I do). He also told me ALL DPs have that sound. I just cant believe that this should be considered normal I mean, I am not accoustically hallucinating the sound. Even if my hearing may be sensitive, IT IS AN INSTRUMENT, its all about hearing.

Can someone with a NWX check their keyboards?

Re: CLP-645 defective keys [Re: Markuska] #2826341 03/13/19 02:17 PM
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My NWX is dead silent.


Yamaha P-515 | Kawai ES100 | Steinberg UR22 | Sony MDR-7506
Re: CLP-645 defective keys [Re: Markuska] #2826348 03/13/19 02:46 PM
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You mean there’s no need to prove that since it’s below the noise floor of your recording equipment?


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Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: CLP-645 defective keys [Re: CyberGene] #2826361 03/13/19 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
You mean there’s no need to prove that since it’s below the noise floor of your recording equipment?

The keys make no noise at all. You can hear the metal hammers below hitting the felt (which is really silent, until it gets worn), but really nothing else.

As for my recording equipment: That is non-existent. I don't own a single microphone.


Yamaha P-515 | Kawai ES100 | Steinberg UR22 | Sony MDR-7506
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