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Re: Sold my piano, how do I take the final payment? #28202
02/25/06 02:18 PM
02/25/06 02:18 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 849
Houston, TX
jollyroger Offline
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Houston, TX
Hi music4me2,
You are indeed quite an individual to share such personal information with us. I believe I speak for all in saying that YOU ARE A VERY SPECIAL PERSON and you have our very best wishes, regardless if you sell the piano or not.
Best and warmest regards,
Roger


Music is the wine that fills the cup of silence.
Estonia 190 - Serial # 6561
Piano & Music Gifts & Accessories (570)
Piano accessories and music gift items, digital piano dolly, music theme party goods
Re: Sold my piano, how do I take the final payment? #28203
02/25/06 02:22 PM
02/25/06 02:22 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 778
Chula Vista
neciebugs Offline
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neciebugs  Offline
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Chula Vista
That is so sad. I applaud you for your dedication to your children. I have 2 ADHD and LD kids, I have a great upright. I hope I never have to make the choice to sell my piano. It would kill me. Hugs and well wishes to you and yours.


Denise
2005 Schulze Pollmann 126/e Classico Upright (Maple with Sunburst inlay)
1965 Baldwin Model L 6'3" Grand (Satin Black)
Re: Sold my piano, how do I take the final payment? #28204
02/25/06 02:47 PM
02/25/06 02:47 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,365
Philadelphia
ftp Offline
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music4me2,

Your spirit is a wonderful reminder to all of us to embrace with vigor and positive outlook whatever life presents to us.

Your character clearly can not be broken, the character of the buyer is the only thing in question.

Re: Sold my piano, how do I take the final payment? #28205
02/25/06 05:45 PM
02/25/06 05:45 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 3,269
Midwest U.S.
ChickGrand Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by jollyroger:
music4me2,
Speak to your banker. It's quite possible they can provide you with an internal "omnibus" account where you can have the money wired to. Then, they'll simply move the money to your account so you'll be able to maintain the level of discretion you desire with the person buying your piano...
This is what the banks involved did when I bought my last house for cash with wire transfer. We used just such omnibus accounts at both ends so neither the seller's nor my account numbers appeared to anyone outside our respective banks for a wire transfer. There was no fee for the service either, and more importantly, no question at either end about the funds being legit.

(When I bought the last piano, I didn't want any such questions about certified checks or what not and wanted possession immediately, so I took stacks of the green stuff shoved in every pocket.)

Re: Sold my piano, how do I take the final payment? #28206
02/25/06 08:03 PM
02/25/06 08:03 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 146
Northern California
music4me2 Offline OP
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music4me2  Offline OP
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Northern California
Stacks of the green stuff...wow!

The buyer contacted me and told me that they were leaning toward either a personal check that clears before the moving company shows up, or a cashiers check that I can verify on the moving day. Either way, it sounds fine to me & so I guess the piano is nearly sold unless they change their mind, which I doubt.

Thank you for all of your advice! I'll let you know how it all turns out and what my replacement piano will be!

Re: Sold my piano, how do I take the final payment? #28207
02/25/06 08:21 PM
02/25/06 08:21 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 849
Houston, TX
jollyroger Offline
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jollyroger  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 849
Houston, TX
music4me2,
I don't want to appear pushy, but Frank's earlier email containing the link about frauds, specifically those entailing certified checks should give you great pause.

Since the money is for such an important purpose (especially so), my suggestion would be to err on the side of caution. Speak to your bank and explain the situation. They can arrange for a wire transfer without you revealing any of your personal account information to the buyer. Your bank can make the arrangements with the buyer's bank to effect the wire transfer. As an officer for one of the largest investment banks in the country, I can fully attest that any check (certified or otherwise) may look good on the surface and actually appear to clear; only to find out weeks (even months) later that it was either fraudulent or lacking in sufficient funds to cover it.

I won't pester you any more about this. But I would be woefully remiss if I did not advise you of the risks involved here, especially with something as valuable as a Steinway M. And especially so with regards to what the funds will be used for.

I wish you all the best and I sincerely hope everything works out well for you and your family. You are a VERY SPECIAL PERSON!

Warmest regards,
Roger


Music is the wine that fills the cup of silence.
Estonia 190 - Serial # 6561
Re: Sold my piano, how do I take the final payment? #28208
02/25/06 08:32 PM
02/25/06 08:32 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 146
Northern California
music4me2 Offline OP
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 146
Northern California
Roger,

Thank you and everyone at PW for your concern. It is well appreciated and needed. Believe me, I am trying to be cautious. But let's say I receive a personal check in the mail, deposit it in my bank account, and wait for it to clear. If it clears, and then the movers show up, isn't that enough? Obviously I would not let the movers take it if the money was not in my account. I would simply not let them come in and carry it away. Are you saying that even if my bank calls their bank and verifies the funds, and then the funds are officially available in my account, that something could still go very wrong and the funds reversed?

I read the links about fraud and this does not appear at this stage to be like any of those. But like I said, wouldn't it be a miraclous twist of fate to somehow get to keep my Steinway? With the piano in my home now and the deposit check cleared, I can't see a downside...yet.

Re: Sold my piano, how do I take the final payment? #28209
02/25/06 08:50 PM
02/25/06 08:50 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 849
Houston, TX
jollyroger Offline
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jollyroger  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 849
Houston, TX
"Are you saying that even if my bank calls their bank and verifies the funds, and then the funds are officially available in my account, that something could still go very wrong and the funds reversed?"

Yes, this is possible. The funds could be subsequently withdrawn during the clearing period. Scam artists will generally do this by wire to a third party bank where the money is then withdrawn before the "process" catches up with them. There are so many flavors of new check "kiting" schemes, fraudulent check scams etc., introduced on an almost daily basis, that they make my head spin every time I hear of a new one. If you arrange for your bank to have the seller's bank wire the funds, then they are not only "Fed Funds" (same day clearance) but because banks have verifiable routing numbers (found at the bottom of your check next to the account number), they are accoustomed to these types of inter-bank transactions. In fact, it's the mainstay for how banks operate and will give you the peace of mind you deserve. The worst that could happen is that your bank may charge you a wire transfer fee (generally about $25 dollars). If a problem did occur, then the buyer's bank would have to chase the person who bought your piano, NOT YOU. When banks wire funds, it's as good as hard cash. Banks CANNOT wire funds they don't have. This is regulated by the FED. The onus is on them.

This is also the way that importers/exporters work. Before a seller consigns any shipment, the buyer deposits the funds in a bank who then issues a "letter of credit" and segregates the funds. Once the buyer receives the merchandise, his/her bank releases the funds to the seller's respective account.

Call me cautious, but if it were me, this is the way I'd handle it. It's safe, easy and actually faster as the funds clear "same day".

And if the buyer had any problems with this, then that's all the reason you'll ever need to realize that they're not trustworty enough to do business with.

Hope this helps.

My very best,
Roger


Music is the wine that fills the cup of silence.
Estonia 190 - Serial # 6561
Re: Sold my piano, how do I take the final payment? #28210
02/28/06 07:29 PM
02/28/06 07:29 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 146
Northern California
music4me2 Offline OP
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music4me2  Offline OP
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 146
Northern California
Just an update. The buyer & the technician hired by the buyer came to check out the Steinway today. He seemed very pleased, said it was "perfect, absolutely perfect."

The buyer gave me a cashier's check & the contact information at her bank. The movers aren't scheduled yet, but could be coming sometime later this week.

Ah, I knew my piano was wonderful :-).

I'm still sad, but finding a replacement will be fun, right?

Re: Sold my piano, how do I take the final payment? #28211
02/28/06 07:55 PM
02/28/06 07:55 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,478
In a state full of Volcanoes
wolfindmist Offline
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In a state full of Volcanoes
Music4me2;

I would take Jollyrodger's reccomendations re. using the wiretransfer. Better to be safe than sorry on something as big as this transaction is for your family. Please take a gander at Jollyrodger's post to you ....

You wrote:
"Are you saying that even if my bank calls their bank and verifies the funds, and then the funds are officially available in my account, that something could still go very wrong and the funds reversed?"

1st part of Jolly Rodger's reply:
Yes, this is possible. The funds could be subsequently withdrawn during the clearing period. Scam artists will generally do this by wire to a third party bank where the money is then withdrawn before the "process" catches up with them. There are so many flavors of new check "kiting" schemes, fraudulent check scams etc., introduced on an almost daily basis, that they make my head spin every time I hear of a new one. If you arrange for your bank to have the seller's bank wire the funds, then they are not only "Fed Funds" (same day clearance) but because banks have verifiable routing numbers (found at the bottom of your check next to the account number), they are accoustomed to these types of inter-bank transactions. In fact, it's the mainstay for how banks operate and will give you the peace of mind you deserve. The worst that could happen is that your bank may charge you a wire transfer fee (generally about $25 dollars). If a problem did occur, then the buyer's bank would have to chase the person who bought your piano, NOT YOU. When banks wire funds, it's as good as hard cash. Banks CANNOT wire funds they don't have. This is regulated by the FED. The onus is on them.

Jollyrodger's advice makes good sense....
given that there are som many people out there who make a living scamming people out of their precious possessions and money.
Wolf


I have my own weapon of mass destruction in the form of a "teenage" German Shepherd. Anything she spies and can get ahold of is fair game.
Re: Sold my piano, how do I take the final payment? #28212
02/28/06 08:44 PM
02/28/06 08:44 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 146
Northern California
music4me2 Offline OP
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Posts: 146
Northern California
Thanks for your advice. Since I had talked with my bank and they gave me the two choices, I gave the buyer the two choices and they chose a cashier's check. I just took it to the bank and they are in the process of calling the issuing bank and verifying funds. My bank claims that I will have the funds available to me tomorrow. How long would it take for the funds to disappear? I still have the piano, so when would the bank realize that the funds were missing if they were gone? How many days? The movers might not come until Saturday...

Re: Sold my piano, how do I take the final payment? #28213
02/28/06 08:47 PM
02/28/06 08:47 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,426
New York
Derick II Offline
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Derick II  Offline
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New York
I don't know if this has already been suggested or not as I haven't read thru the entire thread, but you should really have the funds wired into your bank account. Funds can only be wired in, they cannot be wired out.

Derick


"People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." - Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)

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Re: Sold my piano, how do I take the final payment? #28214
03/01/06 12:08 AM
03/01/06 12:08 AM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 18,356
Lexington, Kentucky
Monica K. Offline

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Lexington, Kentucky
I hope we haven't caused you needless worry, music4me2. The cashier's check in all likelihood will be okay. It's not like you had listed the piano on e-Bay where the scammers are constantly trolling for a victim.

I hope you will buy a replacement soon!

Re: Sold my piano, how do I take the final payment? #28215
03/01/06 03:56 AM
03/01/06 03:56 AM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 510
M
MahlerAdagio Offline
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 510
All this worries wouldn't need to happen by you or the buyer if the check were produced at the bank with the seller watching.

In wanting to protect the seller, I would say that it's a risk for the buyer too to just leave a cashier's check to a stranger, without the goods on hand. Much Nigerian scams occurs this way.

When I bought my piano, I refused to forward a cashier's check inadvance, without having the piano in my possession, because I didn't want to be the victim of losing a great deal of money without anything showing for it.

So, I invited the seller to the bank and have the cashier's check cut right in front of his eyes. I then held the check until the piano is being loaded onto the truck.

This eliminated risks and worries on both sides, and both sides are happy that they are protected.

Re: Sold my piano, how do I take the final payment? #28216
03/01/06 11:37 PM
03/01/06 11:37 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 146
Northern California
music4me2 Offline OP
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music4me2  Offline OP
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Northern California
Okay, so the *next* time I sell an expensive piano (yeah, like I'm ever going to do that again, too painful!), I'll insist on the funds to be wired. I don't know why the bank told me that a cashier's check was just as good. Lesson learned, don't listen to your banker. Lesson two, don't give the buyer any option BUT a wire transfer. Put that in your ad..."wire transfer only..."

Anyhow, it's done. Gone. Big hole in the room. It's been a really awful day. I don't know how long it will be before a replacement arrives...will it be the best digital I can afford, or the best uprgight I can afford, or a really cheap digital to tide us over. If I only had 100 shares of Google...

Re: Sold my piano, how do I take the final payment? #28217
03/01/06 11:55 PM
03/01/06 11:55 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,546
US
sophial Offline
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music4me2,

I'm sorry you had to sell your beautiful Steinway piano, although for a really important reason. It's easy to say, but things can be replaced, people can't, and neither can this precious time in your children's development. You did the right thing. I hope that you can soon bring a piano back into your home and someday have one even more beautiful than the one you just sold.

Sophia

Re: Sold my piano, how do I take the final payment? #28218
03/02/06 12:21 AM
03/02/06 12:21 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 39
Ohio
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A big hole in the living room is better than a hole in your heart. You've touched ours.


Proud new owner of a 2000 Boston GP-163 w/QRS 2000CD+
Re: Sold my piano, how do I take the final payment? #28219
11/15/06 04:39 PM
11/15/06 04:39 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1
atlanta
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jonathan p Offline
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Posts: 1
atlanta
I placed an ad on the site to sell my Petrof piano. What I should really do is simply sell aba routing and bank account numbers, because that is all I am getting requests for. It appears to me that this is more a gateway to identity theft. I supplied one buyer the numbers for an account I keep empty. That account has gotten polled repetively in only 24 hours. My advice to all is to accept payment only by western union, cash,paypal or certified bank check drawn on your own bank where you can take the check and have it verified. -- in Atlanta

Re: Sold my piano, how do I take the final payment? #28220
11/15/06 05:09 PM
11/15/06 05:09 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,879
Victoria, BC
BruceD Offline
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jonathan p :

You've undoubtedly not noticed that this post dates from February of this year. The piano and the money are long gone by now!


BruceD
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Estonia 190
Re: Sold my piano, how do I take the final payment? #28221
11/15/06 05:25 PM
11/15/06 05:25 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 146
Northern California
music4me2 Offline OP
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music4me2  Offline OP
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Northern California
Quote
Originally posted by jonathan p:
I placed an ad on the site to sell my Petrof piano. What I should really do is simply sell aba routing and bank account numbers, because that is all I am getting requests for. It appears to me that this is more a gateway to identity theft. I supplied one buyer the numbers for an account I keep empty. That account has gotten polled repetively in only 24 hours. My advice to all is to accept payment only by western union, cash,paypal or certified bank check drawn on your own bank where you can take the check and have it verified. -- in Atlanta
Did you sell your Petrof smile ?

Yes, my piano is long gone, and the money put to good use. The cashier's check I received worked out fine, and the family who now owns my Steinway is loving it.

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