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Re: This place is really dead [Re: pianist_lady] #2822527
03/03/19 09:07 PM
03/03/19 09:07 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 572
UK
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ShyPianist Offline
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Yes I understand where you’re coming from pianist_lady.

Incidentally the bug which was causing newer members to be put in a “one post per 5 minutes” holding cell has now been fixed, so perhaps that will help with the one post wonder scenario.


Pianist, independent music arranger, violinist, mother
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Re: This place is really dead [Re: malkin] #2822529
03/03/19 09:09 PM
03/03/19 09:09 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,521
South Florida
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Gary D. Offline OP
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Originally Posted by malkin
Originally Posted by Gary D.
Originally Posted by ShyPianist
When it comes to playing I hate playing for anyone at all, and certainly wouldn’t play in public, after a childhood full of forced performances and competitions. That is what the name refers to, not that I should have to explain myself to you or anyone. Sorry if I say too much. 🙄

In a nutshell you just illustrated everything that is wrong here. Somehow my name is linked at the top of your post, but there is no text, no quote. You seem to be irritated at me, but I have no idea about what. Did I say anything to you to insult you?


I think that confusion happens because there is no differentiation between "Reply to Thread" and "Reply to Post" so the only way to respond to a post is to quote, and quotes take a lot of space and get screwed up all the time anyway.

Yes BUT:

I'm answering you. Potentially quotes get within quotes, but that is yet another system problem. Normally only the latest quote remains, but with an arrow to what is being quoted, with an arrow going up again. There is a chain, so you can see who is replying to what.

Not possible here... frown

But I can still live with most of the problems. The thing I can't accept, and which infuriates me, is the inability to edit something I've written when I see a mistake a few minutes later. That was a totally stupid and unnecessary change that has nothing to do with the system. It was added in the last year, and it is awful.


Piano Teacher
Re: This place is really dead [Re: pianist_lady] #2822533
03/03/19 09:19 PM
03/03/19 09:19 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,521
South Florida
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Gary D. Offline OP
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Originally Posted by pianist_lady

I also didn't mean to insult anyone when I posted about finding the replies of non-teachers being less informative. It's just a statement; I would be the first to admit that many of the views I held before I started teaching seriously were uninformed or even wrong, despite many years of piano study.

Yes, views of students about how to teach are going to be less informative, and in many cases absolutely wrong. So if any student attempts to tell me how to teach, or what to change about teaching, I'm going to ignore it, BUT:

The flip side is that students know what more about BEING students than teachers do, so there input about what goes wrong in lessons is invaluable.

Remember also that some people who are teaching 25-30 students a week are not listening to their students, who are often shy or intimidated by the teachers knowledge.

For me it was a game changer when I went back to school, at age 40, to polish up what I was doing with a second language. It altered everything for me in my own teaching. I saw problems I had not thought of from the angle of a student. I saw a whole class of mostly lost people, I saw the teacher not seeing the problems. I saw a college text, that was supposedly more advanced for "older, more sophisticated students", absolutely failing because it went too fast, covering way too many concepts far too quickly.

The real eye-opener: I was 40 with almost two decades of teaching experience. And I was the only person in the class who was not partially lost, understanding everything, on top of every lesson. But the teacher was totally uninterested in my insights even though I was fully fluent in a class where everyone else was stumbling to say and read a few things.

That arrogance is typical of what I often see here from teachers who are sure everything they do is perfect and that anyone questioning them about what they do is just student arrogance, or ignorance, or rank stupidity.

As a teacher I'm always open to feedback about what is working or not working, and as a results I make sweeping changes in what I teach every year. I just don't see that flexibility here, on the whole.


Piano Teacher
Re: This place is really dead [Re: Gary D.] #2822534
03/03/19 09:20 PM
03/03/19 09:20 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 572
UK
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Once again, apologies GaryD for the confusion. When you use Quick Editor, which I tend to do, you can’t see who your reply will be directed at. Of course, if you use the Full Editor you can see the post you’re replying to at the bottom if you scroll down.

As a newbie I also hadn’t figured out until recently that the person you actually replied to displays in the header of your reply and I didn’t realise people then used this to conclude people were talking directly to them. I’ve never been one for quoting people’s posts back at them in web forums, but I can see why that might be necessary here.

All very reminiscent of Twitter etiquette with the order of mentions etc. Apologies once again!


Last edited by ShyPianist; 03/03/19 09:20 PM.

Pianist, independent music arranger, violinist, mother
Re: This place is really dead [Re: ShyPianist] #2822538
03/03/19 09:39 PM
03/03/19 09:39 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,521
South Florida
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Gary D. Offline OP
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Originally Posted by ShyPianist
Once again, apologies GaryD for the confusion. When you use Quick Editor, which I tend to do, you can’t see who your reply will be directed at. Of course, if you use the Full Editor you can see the post you’re replying to at the bottom if you scroll down.

As a newbie I also hadn’t figured out until recently that the person you actually replied to displays in the header of your reply and I didn’t realise people then used this to conclude people were talking directly to them. I’ve never been one for quoting people’s posts back at them in web forums, but I can see why that might be necessary here.

All very reminiscent of Twitter etiquette with the order of mentions etc. Apologies once again!


Hit quote, then type below. Everything will automatically be fine. wink

Once again, these are system problems. For just this reason you will see people responding to thing written last week or last year, or way back to something very early in a long thread. There is so much miscommunication because we often don't know where things are coming from!


Piano Teacher
Re: This place is really dead [Re: Gary D.] #2822560
03/03/19 11:49 PM
03/03/19 11:49 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 17,217
Canada
keystring Offline
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Originally Posted by Gary D.
For me it was a game changer when I went back to school, at age 40, to polish up what I was doing with a second language. It altered everything for me in my own teaching. I saw problems I had not thought of from the angle of a student. I saw a whole class of mostly lost people, I saw the teacher not seeing the problems. I saw a college text, that was supposedly more advanced for "older, more sophisticated students", absolutely failing because it went too fast, covering way too many concepts far too quickly.

The real eye-opener: I was 40 with almost two decades of teaching experience. And I was the only person in the class who was not partially lost, understanding everything, on top of every lesson. But the teacher was totally uninterested in my insights even though I was fully fluent in a class where everyone else was stumbling to say and read a few things.


The part I highlighted caught my attention and I want to comment here. This happens with adult students starting a new instrument for the first time, and especially if that student plays another instrument or comes in self-taught, apparently somewhat fluid at some level. I have been hammering the idea of foundations for years, and fought the idea of the "adult books" if and when these books want to help students "go fast", play music that is familiar and beloved, and dovetail in the adult facility of abstract thinking. An abstract mind does not help tune the eyes, the hands, coordination, or the senses. In fact, it can get in the way. It did in my first experience.

Quote
As a teacher I'm always open to feedback about what is working or not working, and as a results I make sweeping changes in what I teach every year. I just don't see that flexibility here, on the whole.


Welcome words. smile

Re: This place is really dead [Re: Morodiene] #2822600
03/04/19 04:50 AM
03/04/19 04:50 AM
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 87
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fofig Offline
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Originally Posted by Morodiene
Personally, I appreciate hearing from non-teachers on these subjects, as long as they are clear they are non-teachers (those of you who do post regularly will often mention this for the benefit of newbies who don't know this already), and also that teachers don't get attacked for using this as not only a place to arrive at solutions, but also to vent a little steam.

Private music teaching is a very lonely sort of business where collaboration between colleagues is often hampered by having to remain competitive. So having a forum like this has been very valuable to me, although in the past couple of years we've lost some contributors and frankly, I'm not sure there are many people going into the field these days. Or if they are, they're not into an archaic form like a forum and will use Youtube, or social media instead.

I, too, have given what I felt were very informative answers that barely got any acknowledgment. That certainly makes me not want to give those kinds of responses, and just cut things down to bare minimum.



Personally, I have been posting here every now and then, clarifying my non-teacher status. I have just asked few things about the piano education for my daughter (7y) and for me (adult) and once I got even blasted by AZN, so I think this qualifies me as honorary member of the club wink

I do not contribute regularly, as I am not a piano teacher, but as a teacher in other domain, this remains one of my favourite subject and I love to read about the discussion on the way to teach piano.

This place is not dead to me, it is just that I do not have much to say, but I learned a lot by the regular post of the teacher here...

I guess this is to thank you all !



Last edited by fofig; 03/04/19 04:51 AM.


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Re: This place is really dead [Re: Gary D.] #2822728
03/04/19 01:32 PM
03/04/19 01:32 PM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 90
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mostlystrings Offline
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I forgot where it was that someone mentioned competition between private music teachers and am not going to look back and quote it...

Anyway, when I saw that, I thought, it doesn't have to be that way! Why can we not work together to build a music community, to get students and families interested in music, so that more will take lessons, and there will be plenty of students for plenty of teachers? I would love to collaborate with local teachers, exchange ideas, gain insight in different ways to solve a problem, do joint ensemble classes and performances - idealist, I know. But I personally don't find it necessary to "compete" with another teacher; I don't actually want your students anyway (transfers), and if my student needs a different approach, I don't have a problem with them finding a better fit with your style.

Re: This place is really dead [Re: fofig] #2822788
03/04/19 04:42 PM
03/04/19 04:42 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,303
Virginia, USA
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TimR Offline
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Originally Posted by fofig
I have just asked few things about the piano education for my daughter (7y) and for me (adult) and once I got even blasted by AZN, so I think this qualifies me as honorary member of the club wink




Not really a distinction - we've ALL been there!

Should I add a smiley? Nah, it's understood. Oh wait....................


gotta go practice
Re: This place is really dead [Re: mostlystrings] #2822910
03/04/19 10:45 PM
03/04/19 10:45 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,026
Boynton Beach, FL
Morodiene Offline
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Originally Posted by mostlystrings
I forgot where it was that someone mentioned competition between private music teachers and am not going to look back and quote it...

Anyway, when I saw that, I thought, it doesn't have to be that way! Why can we not work together to build a music community, to get students and families interested in music, so that more will take lessons, and there will be plenty of students for plenty of teachers? I would love to collaborate with local teachers, exchange ideas, gain insight in different ways to solve a problem, do joint ensemble classes and performances - idealist, I know. But I personally don't find it necessary to "compete" with another teacher; I don't actually want your students anyway (transfers), and if my student needs a different approach, I don't have a problem with them finding a better fit with your style.

I was the one who talked about that being a problem. Personally, I share whatever I know if it helps (and even if it does't wink ), but in general, such pettiness does come up. I don't teach for the money - if I wanted money I'd go into something non-arts-related. But it's amazing how protective some teachers are of their "secrets". That's fine, it's there prerogative, but it does make forums not work so well.


private piano/voice teacher FT

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Re: This place is really dead [Re: TimR] #2822956
03/05/19 03:40 AM
03/05/19 03:40 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,230
Orange County, CA
AZNpiano Online happy
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Orange County, CA
Originally Posted by TimR
Originally Posted by fofig
I have just asked few things about the piano education for my daughter (7y) and for me (adult) and once I got even blasted by AZN, so I think this qualifies me as honorary member of the club wink


Not really a distinction - we've ALL been there!

Should I add a smiley? Nah, it's understood. Oh wait....................

I enjoy blasting people whey they are clearly wrong.

NOT winking


Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
Re: This place is really dead [Re: AZNpiano] #2822963
03/05/19 04:01 AM
03/05/19 04:01 AM
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 87
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fofig Offline
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Originally Posted by AZNpiano
Originally Posted by TimR
Originally Posted by fofig
I have just asked few things about the piano education for my daughter (7y) and for me (adult) and once I got even blasted by AZN, so I think this qualifies me as honorary member of the club wink


Not really a distinction - we've ALL been there!

Should I add a smiley? Nah, it's understood. Oh wait....................

I enjoy blasting people whey they are clearly wrong.

NOT winking


Please keep doing it, personally I do not get hurt: I am a total newbie
Besides You are great fun! I am entering the thread also for your blast, but I must confess, I generally I found the other contributors more informative and instructive.



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Re: This place is really dead [Re: fofig] #2822971
03/05/19 05:03 AM
03/05/19 05:03 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,230
Orange County, CA
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Orange County, CA
Originally Posted by fofig
Please keep doing it, personally I do not get hurt: I am a total newbie
Besides You are great fun! I am entering the thread also for your blast, but I must confess, I generally I found the other contributors more informative and instructive.

I could be more informative;however, there are trade secrets. Whenever I write something helpful, I don't go all out.

What you read from me here, in this forum, is merely the tip of the iceberg. Most people have no idea what I'm capable of.


Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
Re: This place is really dead [Re: fofig] #2822978
03/05/19 05:32 AM
03/05/19 05:32 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 17,217
Canada
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Originally Posted by fofig
Besides You are great fun! I am entering the thread also for your blast, but I must confess, I generally I found the other contributors more informative and instructive.

I actually traced the thread you're talking about earlier today. Some people were more wordy, but I found AZNpiano's advice quite good and spot on. No precise advice can be given anyway since the new place, new teacher, are all unknown. That bit of general middle-of-the-road advice I think was an excellent guidepost. Just my opinion. smile

Re: This place is really dead [Re: Gary D.] #2823209
03/06/19 03:40 AM
03/06/19 03:40 AM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,683
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Originally Posted by Gary D.
I'm looking at threads. I posted 8 hours ago, and there is another post from 21 hour ago. There is so little traffic here, most of the time it's not even worth looking in...


There's an easy explanation for this, I think. The last two years have seen the rise of MASSIVE Facebook groups devoted to piano teaching. The most popular of which is "The Art of Piano Pedagogy" -- currently at 20,000 members and growing every day. Post a topic and it will get 10 comments (or reacation), within a minute. It's so huge that if you join, you can almost be sure to find a good percentage of your piano teacher friends and colleagues in real life are already on it. The platform makes it easier to post images and videos as well. Don't shoot the messenger.

Edit; Re-reading your post I see you mean just very recently. But I do remember how active this forum was in the early 2000's when I joined compared to now.

Last edited by Opus_Maximus; 03/06/19 03:47 AM.
Re: This place is really dead [Re: keystring] #2823230
03/06/19 06:12 AM
03/06/19 06:12 AM
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Posts: 87
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fofig Offline
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Originally Posted by keystring
Originally Posted by fofig
Besides You are great fun! I am entering the thread also for your blast, but I must confess, I generally I found the other contributors more informative and instructive.

I actually traced the thread you're talking about earlier today. Some people were more wordy, but I found AZNpiano's advice quite good and spot on. No precise advice can be given anyway since the new place, new teacher, are all unknown. That bit of general middle-of-the-road advice I think was an excellent guidepost. Just my opinion. smile


Actually, yes! this specific post was very helpful in that transition period.



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Re: This place is really dead [Re: AZNpiano] #2823535
03/06/19 11:16 PM
03/06/19 11:16 PM
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Posts: 2,042
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Originally Posted by AZNpiano
Most people have no idea what I'm capable of.


My imagination is running wild.


Whizbang
amateur ragtime pianist
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Re: This place is really dead [Re: Gary D.] #2824008
03/07/19 09:57 PM
03/07/19 09:57 PM
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 37
San Francisco
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I tend to lurk and avoid posting, it seems to cause more aggravation than provide actual help. But thank, Opus, I just joined that Facebook group and will be spending my online time there, where people can't hide behind avatars and have to hold themselves accountable for what they type. This site is clunky, nigh impossible to use on mobile, and threads turn into nightmarish proportions in no time.

Re: This place is really dead [Re: SchroedersCat] #2824022
03/07/19 10:28 PM
03/07/19 10:28 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 572
UK
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ShyPianist Offline
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UK
Originally Posted by SchroedersCat
I tend to lurk and avoid posting, it seems to cause more aggravation than provide actual help. But thank, Opus, I just joined that Facebook group and will be spending my online time there, where people can't hide behind avatars and have to hold themselves accountable for what they type. This site is clunky, nigh impossible to use on mobile, and threads turn into nightmarish proportions in no time.


Please feel free to post on my thread asking for guidance in narrowing down materials to start teaching my son! I have ideas of my own but I’m very interested in thoughts from experienced teachers.


Pianist, independent music arranger, violinist, mother
Re: This place is really dead [Re: SchroedersCat] #2824702
03/09/19 05:52 PM
03/09/19 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by SchroedersCat
I tend to lurk and avoid posting, it seems to cause more aggravation than provide actual help. But thank, Opus, I just joined that Facebook group and will be spending my online time there, where people can't hide behind avatars and have to hold themselves accountable for what they type. This site is clunky, nigh impossible to use on mobile, and threads turn into nightmarish proportions in no time.



I often think very hard before posting here and self censor a lot to avoid grief and I’m still not always successful. For this reason I generally finding reading more interesting than posting. Unfortunately, I can’t join the FB group. Wish there was a good one that linked teachers and parents.

Last edited by pianoMom2006; 03/09/19 05:54 PM.

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