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Hello all,
One of my dreams as a continuing adult is to eventually learn Liebestraum. I am a few years away, but my teacher and I are looking for suggestions on easier pieces that I could play as preparation for it. Specifically we are looking for pieces that could help with the octaves and runs. I usually struggle with playing forte, making (and hitting) jumps, and stamina.
Here are some previous pieces I've learned:
-Chopin Nocturne 9/2 -Rachmaninoff Prelude 23/4 (D major) -Joplin Heliotrope Bouquet -Chopin Etude 25/1 (Aeolian Harp) -Parts of Chopin Romanze/Larghetto (Piano concerto 1)
BTW I am just playing this for fun, not for a conservatory or whatever! I thought of starting with Rachmaninoff's Nocturne 1, but I am curious to hear any more suggestions and advice, thank you!
Last edited by schinl; 02/26/19 01:32 PM.
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Liszt Consolation in Db was quite nice. There are some octaves in there. Some Chopin nocturnes have runs as well, as you must have encountered in 9.2. Nocturne 20 C# maj has a few brief runs at the end. Does that help?
Steinway A3 Boston 118 PE YouTubeWorking OnChopin Nocturne E min Bach Inventions "You Can Never Have Too Many Dream Pianos" -Thad Carhart
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Liszt Consolation in Db was quite nice. There are some octaves in there. Some Chopin nocturnes have runs as well, as you must have encountered in 9.2. Nocturne 20 C# maj has a few brief runs at the end. Does that help? Great suggestions!
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The first cadenza in Liebestraume No. 3, is not quite like anything found in Chopin. The challenge here is the two-note descending fourths, jumping from the second of the two-note group to the first of the next two-note group. These two-note groups are accompanied by parallel two-note phrases in the left hand. Accuracy for the jumps is the challenge, and making sure all the three-note groups sound absolutely together. Regards,
BruceD - - - - - Estonia 190
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The second cadenza, again, is quite unlike what you find in most of Chopin's passage work - although there may be some resemblance to some Here, the challenge is the descending broken thirds in contrary motion in the two hands; needless to say, it has to be light, rapid and totally even. Regards,
BruceD - - - - - Estonia 190
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I don't think that the octaves in the Consolation No. 3 will be of that much help in managing the octaves in Liebestraum No. 3. The challenge here is not the octaves per se, but, rather, playing the octaves as melody and then jumping down an octave to play the accompaniment, and then jumping back up an octave to play the next melody note. Regards,
BruceD - - - - - Estonia 190
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The final challenge, which should be the first one worked on, is the sustaining of the melody in the first twenty or so measures where that melody is carried primarily by the thumbs of each hand. The listener shouldn't be aware of any transfer of the melody from one hand to the other. The accompanying notes, particularly in the right hand must remain as accompanying notes and not overpower the melody.
Probably the best preparatory work for this section is the piece itself.
Finally, make sure that each measure is counted as six beats; I've heard some try to play the accompaniment as triplets and thus giving only four beats to the bar. Not only is that obviously wrong, it really louses things up when you get to measure 5, where obviously one is playing in 6/4 not 4/4.
Regards,
BruceD - - - - - Estonia 190
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Thank you for your responses!
cmb13: Yes, the consolation in Db was in the short list, but we are trying to avoid pieces that has running left hand. I did struggle with the runs at the end of Nocturne 9/2. Did you mean the Nocturne in C sharp minor op posth?
BruceD: Thank you! Yes, the cadenzas are very scary. And my teacher also pointed out the jumping octaves while maintaining the melody will be a challenge. I encountered a little bit of that in the Aeolian harp etude, but only for a few bars.
While I am of course eager to learn Liebestraum, I don't feel quite ready for it.. My teacher did mention that if I really really want to learn it, we can start, but I mustn't give up on it (I have a tendency to give up on pieces halfway), so I'd hate for that to happen prematurely. Hence a few training pieces would be welcome.
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Yes, sorry, I meant C#min....but Bruce knows a lot more about these than I do, so I'd go with his recommendations.
Steinway A3 Boston 118 PE YouTubeWorking OnChopin Nocturne E min Bach Inventions "You Can Never Have Too Many Dream Pianos" -Thad Carhart
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Yes, sorry, I meant C#min....but Bruce knows a lot more about these than I do, so I'd go with his recommendations. Given that the OP is still "a few years away" from working on Liebestraum no. 3, your suggestions are just as valid as mine, and perhaps more appropriate for the moment. S/he does need to work on some basic repertoire until then that includes passage work and simple octave melodies. I sometimes go overboard when, in a given context, a more simple answer might be more appropriate. Regards,
BruceD - - - - - Estonia 190
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:cheers:
With every piece comes new, or at least reinforced skills. I’m personally not ready for the piece in question. Those above did teach me new skills though! Good intro to octaves, target bass notes and landing practice, not to mention polyrhythms, and short runs.
Steinway A3 Boston 118 PE YouTubeWorking OnChopin Nocturne E min Bach Inventions "You Can Never Have Too Many Dream Pianos" -Thad Carhart
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Thank you, I will look into the C# min Nocturne.
Your analysis was great, thanks Bruce! Any suggestions of stepping stone repertoire is also welcome.
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Thank you, I will look into the C# min Nocturne. There is very little, if anything, in that piece that is related to the difficulties in Liebestraum. The scale runs at the end of that piece are not like anything in Liebestraum.
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Good selections: I have performed both of these, the second one just this Sunday for my performance group, after accompanying one of my singer-friends who sang the original vocal/piano version. However, apart from the cadenzas, the Mendelssohn/Liszt is as difficult as Liebestraum 3. Litanei may be a better possibility for the OP, eventually. Regards,
BruceD - - - - - Estonia 190
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Another great piece to practice melodies shared between both hands: Mendelssohn's Duetto https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQtLgjZCEbQ
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Another piece which frequently carries the melody between the two thumbs is Anton Rubinstein's "Melody in F." Melody in FRegards,
BruceD - - - - - Estonia 190
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Cécile Chaminade: etude de concert op.35 no.2 'Automne', it has 'thumb-melodies' and a lot of octaves, just for stamina and expression it might be the right stuff.
Longtemps, je me suis couché de bonne heure, but not anymore!
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Thanks for all your suggestions!
YIKES the Chaminade is terrifying, it is beautiful but I don't think I am anywhere near it.. it looks more like liebestraum is a preparatory for it, rather than the other way around.. haha!
The Litanei and Wings of Song are beautiful but I don't understand it, there are two bass clefs? Which one should I be playing?
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The Litanei and Wings of Song are beautiful but I don't understand it, there are two bass clefs? Which one should I be playing?
You play both of them. I would definitely try Litanei first because, as Bruce mentioned earlier, it's considerably easier than the Mendelssohn. The two bass staves are there so it's easier to follow the melody line on the middle staff. They've very conveniently indicated which hand plays which notes in the melody. Stem up notes are played with the RH and stem down are played with the LH.
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