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New Kawai ES8
#2810165 02/03/19 09:04 AM
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Hello all. First post.

I picked up a Kawai yesterday, and I find that the lowest leftmost key, only when pushed down, can be pushed forward almost 1/2", and slid back and forward easily, but not come off the keyboard.

I don't know if this is a result of manufacturing (sometimes it's the only way to insert the "last" of something in a row' or it's an anomaly. Otherwise the instrument is completely flawless. (I've read of an issue or two on this board, but take it with a grain of salt, as the one or two with problems are certainly spotlighted by those hundreds with none.)

If it's not a manufacturing issue, and something's wrong, should I live with it? Something tells me that a replacement might have an issue that's more offensive.

Anyways, just wanted to know if this is a known issue, or if it's just mine.

Thank you all.

Last edited by SparkyLB; 02/03/19 09:06 AM.

He not busy being born is busy dying.
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Re: New Kawai ES8
SparkyLB #2810167 02/03/19 09:15 AM
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It's neither normal nor a manufacturing issue. It's transport damage. Kawai instruments are very often affected by the latter.


Richwood RD-17C-CE | LaMancha Rubi CM-N | Yamaha P-515
Re: New Kawai ES8
SparkyLB #2810190 02/03/19 10:36 AM
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It certainly does not seem normal.

Since you "picked it up" it would seem simple to discuss this with the dealer and decide upon a course of action.

It might be a "simple" adjustment / fix the dealer can implement with their tech staff or replace the entire keyboard.

I would not suggest living with it.

You should expect a "perfect" keyboard on day 1, at least.

I owned the ES8 and it is a great instrument.

Congratulations on a fine choice.


Don

Casio PX-S1000, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq, FocusRite Scarlett 2i2 Audio Interface, Focal Professional CMS 40 monitors
Re: New Kawai ES8
SparkyLB #2810205 02/03/19 12:02 PM
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Thanks so much. I'll call them now and see if they have another in stock for a replacement. I'm not going the "fix it" route whether it be their staff, or sending it out.


He not busy being born is busy dying.
Re: New Kawai ES8
SparkyLB #2810215 02/03/19 12:27 PM
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I called Sam Ash and they were immediately both cooperative and contrite. They don't have another on hand, but they're calling other stores. When they have a new one in the box, they're going to call me, and we'll make the swap. They even mentioned that we'll open it up in the store to confirm it's pristine. They also mentioned that the warranty will begin once I have the next one. Great customer service.

As far as the "last piece placed" remark in my OP, I was pretty certain that keyboards are assembled in full, outside the machine, then inserted--but wasn't sure.

Thanks again for the help.


He not busy being born is busy dying.
Re: New Kawai ES8
SparkyLB #2810385 02/03/19 11:20 PM
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Hello SparkyLB, welcome to the forum.

May I ask if the key is functioning correctly (i.e. it produces a sound when pressed, and at different volumes)?

Would you be able to shoot a quick video of this key's movement, and send me a download link via a private message, please?

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.
Re: New Kawai ES8
Kawai James #2810731 02/04/19 06:17 PM
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Hello Kawai James. Thanks for the response. I'm afraid I don't know how to capture a video to the computer, but as far as your queries, yes. It produces a sound, and at different volumes, but the sound is NOT an A1, the pitch is off, and the tone carries some distortion. When pushing the key downwards, it feels normal enough, but unlike the other keys, when the finger is slid off away from the instrument, its return to position has the expected bounce, but it's not as pronounced. Additionally, the bounce is accentuated by the fact that the key is loose.

While the key is held down, it can be pushed forwards towards where a fall board would be, to the point where the cutout almost touches the A sharp. It can also be pulled back until the bottom hits the ledge of the instrument in which the key sits. Poor analogy, perhaps, but it's like a seesaw whose fulcrum has lost its bolts. Pulling up on it produces nothing unusual, nor does pushing down firmly. The action of the key is "normal" except its fore/aft movement. It's this movement, and the key's out of tune character that caused me to call the vendor.

To recap, it's only this key, and otherwise the instrument is flawless.


He not busy being born is busy dying.
Re: New Kawai ES8
SparkyLB #2810820 02/05/19 12:18 AM
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Hello SparkyLB, thank you for your reply, and for the additional information.

Originally Posted by SparkyLB
I'm afraid I don't know how to capture a video to the computer


Ah, that's a shame. May I ask if you have access to a smartphone or tablet, please?

Originally Posted by SparkyLB
It produces a sound, and at different volumes, but the sound is NOT an A1, the pitch is off, and the tone carries some distortion.


That seems strange. I don't understand why the pitch of the note would be incorrect. May I ask how you are measuring this pitch, please?

Originally Posted by SparkyLB
When pushing the key downwards, it feels normal enough, but unlike the other keys, when the finger is slid off away from the instrument, its return to position has the expected bounce, but it's not as pronounced.


Thank you for your explanation, however it's a little difficult for me to visualise this in my mind - especially the "sliding" motion of the finger. Is this different to just pressing and releasing a key?

Originally Posted by SparkyLB
While the key is held down, it can be pushed forwards towards where a fall board would be, to the point where the cutout almost touches the A sharp. It can also be pulled back until the bottom hits the ledge of the instrument in which the key sits. Poor analogy, perhaps, but it's like a seesaw whose fulcrum has lost its bolts. Pulling up on it produces nothing unusual, nor does pushing down firmly. The action of the key is "normal" except its fore/aft movement. It's this movement, and the key's out of tune character that caused me to call the vendor.


Thanks again for your explanation. Again, this "looseness" does not sound correct. Indeed, the way you describe the back/forward movement gives the impression of a broken key. However, if this was the case, I believe the key would be unable to produce (sound) a note consistently.

I also do not understand why this would cause the note to be detune. May I ask if you have tried other instrument sounds, and if those also result in a detuned note? Another feature to check might be the Four Hands Mode feature (owner's manual p.22), which divides the full keyboard into two 44-note sections with the same key range. Once Four Hands Mode is enabled, the bottom 'A' key will produce the sound of a note played a few octaves higher, allowing you to check whether or not the note truly is detuned. Playing a descending chromatic scale in the bottom octave should clearly highlight a out-of-tune note. Similarly, the Transpose function (owner's manual p.30) can be used to raise/lower the pitch of the keyboard in semi-tone steps, again allowing you to check whether or not the bottom note's key sensors are working correctly.

Originally Posted by SparkyLB
To recap, it's only this key, and otherwise the instrument is flawless.


Okay, I see.

Even though you are already in contact with the vendor, my recommendation would be to also raise this topic with Kawai America, just in case one of their support staff/technicians has any suggestions that I may have overlooked.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.
Re: New Kawai ES8
Kawai James #2811283 02/06/19 07:59 AM
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PM inbound.


He not busy being born is busy dying.
Re: New Kawai ES8
SparkyLB #2811680 02/06/19 09:21 PM
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Thank you SparkyLB, I have replied.

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.
Re: New Kawai ES8
SparkyLB #2820064 02/25/19 07:48 PM
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For those following along, the issue has been resolved. Keyboard has been replaced. Great customer service from Sam Ash.


He not busy being born is busy dying.

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