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Re: Getting my first expensive Piano - Kawai CA 78? [Re: Tommm777] #2819936
02/25/19 04:32 PM
02/25/19 04:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 23
Austria
D
DevNoteHQ Offline OP
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DevNoteHQ  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 23
Austria
Originally Posted by Kawai James
Hello DevNoteHQ,

Personally, I would suggest playing the instrument for a little while using the default settings, to allow your ears and fingers to adjust to this "standard" setting. Then after a while you may wish to adjust the touch curve, brightness, or key damping, etc.

I would also recommend that 100% volume is not really suitable for most players. Of course, these things depend on the individual and the playing environment, however I would start off with a volume of 50%~60% and then make adjustments as necessary.

Kind regards,
James
x


Hi Kawai James!

I put it back on normal, but I'll keep the "Bright 1" setting. And I've put the volume down to 60% or so^^ Do normal grands really sound exactly like the default brightness? I really prefer the "Bright 1" setting and it states in the description that "Bright 1" just equals denser hammers or so...
And when i try to play "Comptine d'un atre ete", B5 is really aggressive. It sounds like it's resonating quite a bit. Is that also normal behaviour of a grand?

Originally Posted by Tommm777
Have you tried pianoteq? I don’t think I’m ever going to play the internal sounds on my CA78 ever again after trying it.


Nope. And I won't try it, simply because I don't want any additional hardware on my piano^^

Last edited by DevNoteHQ; 02/25/19 04:39 PM.
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Re: Getting my first expensive Piano - Kawai CA 78? [Re: DevNoteHQ] #2819975
02/25/19 05:55 PM
02/25/19 05:55 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 750
Austria, EU
L
lophiomys Offline
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lophiomys  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 750
Austria, EU
Quote

Is that also normal behaviour of a grand?

That it easy to verify. I'd recommend to make an appointment with your local piano shop and test the B5 on a few accoustic pianos...
The other possibility would be, to consult with a piano teacher right at your digital piano for an hour or two.
HTH

Re: Getting my first expensive Piano - Kawai CA 78? [Re: lophiomys] #2820023
02/25/19 07:13 PM
02/25/19 07:13 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,075
Richmond, BC, Canada
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Charles Cohen Online content
5000 Post Club Member
Charles Cohen  Online Content
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,075
Richmond, BC, Canada
Originally Posted by lophiomys
Quote

Is that also normal behaviour of a grand?

That it easy to verify. I'd recommend to make an appointment with your local piano shop and test the B5 on a few accoustic pianos...
The other possibility would be, to consult with a piano teacher right at your digital piano for an hour or two.
HTH


Listening through headphones is the _first_ thing in the diagnostic chain. If the answer is:
. . . "B5 sounds the same as other notes, through headphones",

a lot of other stuff is ruled out.

If the B5 sounds different than adjacent notes _through headphones_, :

. . . It could be a problem in the CA78's samples, . _All_ CA78's will have that problem.
. . . . . I haven't read that other owners are unhappy
. . . with that particular note.

. . . It could be a problem with the B5 key's velocity sensor. I think the CA78 uses optical sensors, which makes the problem
. . . . . unlikely, but possible. In that case, a visit by a tech might be worthwhile.

If it's a "velocity problem" on the B5 key, it might be fixable with the Virtual Technician.



If the B5 sounds different _through the CA78 loudspeakers_:

. . . There might be a "room resonance" problem, unique to the DevNoteHQ's room and piano position.
. . . . Move the DP to a different location in the room, and see if things change.

. . . There might be a resonance in the CA78 "cabinet + loudspeaker" system. Again, I haven't read that it's a problem
. . . . . for other owners.

My bet is, if he _does_ go a piano showroom and play several acoustics, he'll find that _most of them_ have one or more notes that have a slightly different tone quality from the adjacent notes:

. . . but it will be different notes on different pianos!

Even brand-new "wood, felt, and steel" pianos have peculiarities, as they come out of the factory.

My suggestion -- FWIW -- is that, since DevNoteHQ has bought a premium DP from a good maker, he should leave it in "default condition", and get used to it for a few weeks or so.

. . . _Then_, start playing around with the Virtual Technician.


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / Korg Wavedrum / EV ZXA1 speaker
Re: Getting my first expensive Piano - Kawai CA 78? [Re: Charles Cohen] #2820024
02/25/19 07:18 PM
02/25/19 07:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,075
Richmond, BC, Canada
C
Charles Cohen Online content
5000 Post Club Member
Charles Cohen  Online Content
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,075
Richmond, BC, Canada
From another active thread:

Quote


Quote

I also note you haven't commented on all pianos having a "rogue note", and this being perfectly acceptable. You do however find time yet again to downplay the seriousness of this issue. "little more prominent"? Come on man. I've contacted both Roland and Yamaha for their views on all their piano products having "rogue notes".


Kawai's samples are unique per key, they are not smoothed/blended like elsewhere. That creates a more vivid image when multiple notes play together in chords at the cost of scales being a bit more uneven in characteristic. This nature also makes it harder to diagnose action or sample problems, even for technicians.


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / Korg Wavedrum / EV ZXA1 speaker
Re: Getting my first expensive Piano - Kawai CA 78? [Re: Charles Cohen] #2820025
02/25/19 07:18 PM
02/25/19 07:18 PM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 3,594
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Gombessa Offline
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Originally Posted by Charles Cohen

. . . It could be a problem with the B5 key's velocity sensor. I think the CA78 uses optical sensors, which makes the problem
. . . . . unlikely, but possible. In that case, a visit by a tech might be worthwhile.


The CA-78 uses "typical" triple rubber-dome contact sensors, not optical. But your point still stands (and issues with the physical sensor mechanism have definitely contributed to inconsistent velocity readings on DPs, so it's definitely one of the suspects).


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Getting my first expensive Piano - Kawai CA 78? [Re: DevNoteHQ] #2820081
02/25/19 09:58 PM
02/25/19 09:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 23
Austria
D
DevNoteHQ Offline OP
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DevNoteHQ  Offline OP
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Austria
No there is definetly nothing wrong with the piano. I even did a recording and the B5 does sound normal in the recording. So it's probably just resonance from the room that makes it sound aggressive^^ My room does resonate with multiple notes, but not in the same way as with B5 so i thought it's maybe intensional^^

Re: Getting my first expensive Piano - Kawai CA 78? [Re: DevNoteHQ] #2820289
02/26/19 11:16 AM
02/26/19 11:16 AM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 61
Warsaw
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Purrblast Offline
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I have similar experience with few notes resonating more than others on CA78. Only happens through built in speakers. It bugged me for a while and tried to resolve it by moving piano 20cm left-right as well as away and towards the wall. That didn't change anything though. However the experience of more prominent resonance for some keys seem to be affected by the place I listen from. I can hear it clearly from playing position or while standing next to piano. But when sitting 1+m away (for example for little audience of your recital sitting behind you) it is almost not noticable.

As for virtual technician and user key volume option - setting it to lowest does not fully compensate for the prominence of the sticking out resonance and I don't like the change of tone characteristics it brings. Lowering key volume brings down also the punch sound of the key and it is rather the resonance that comes after that I'd like to apply it to. The feature works great, but I'm not satisfied with the results in this case as it does not address the right part of the sound.

As moving piano didn't help I attribute sticking out resonance to CA78 cabinet/speakers and I trust it can be solved some way. Since I believe solution exists and since I play via headphones 90% of the time I'm not so worried about the issue and stopped pursuing it. I kind of wait passively for some solution to appear while browsing forums or till I get one of my moments of brilliant ideas smile

That being said II've very pleased with the samples and I like how even the small characteristics of the sampled grand piano are brought to digital instrument (has any user of CA78/98 noticed that D2 sample of SK-EX has that subtle "delayed hammer" effect?).

Re: Getting my first expensive Piano - Kawai CA 78? [Re: DevNoteHQ] #2821079
02/28/19 01:47 PM
02/28/19 01:47 PM
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Posts: 23
Austria
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DevNoteHQ Offline OP
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DevNoteHQ  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 23
Austria
I tried to move myself around a bit and going back ~20cm eliminates the problem. The question is just how do i play that far away? Hmm.... XD

But overall i have to say it is a really awesome instrument. I haven't had the opportunity to play on a grand in direct comparison since i got it, but i feel like it really does simulate the feel and sound of a grand quite well. Bass notes are soft and silent when touching the key softly and going up you can really feel how the hammers become lighter and playing loud requires less and less pressure on the key. The notes get clear and bright and shine above the mid/bass (except when you hit the bass really hard XD).
Now i only have to learn how to play it^^ The "Damper Resonance" as they call it in the description in combination with the half pedal sustain are giving me kind of a hard time trying to play some pieces, because the sustained notes stay much longer and clearer and resonate with the other notes, so i have to half pedal in some cases in order to reduce those resonating notes^^ But i remember it to be pretty much the same on the grand, so just something to get used to^^ I also see pianists in videos half pedaling all the time^^

Re: Getting my first expensive Piano - Kawai CA 78? [Re: DevNoteHQ] #2821124
02/28/19 03:22 PM
02/28/19 03:22 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 572
UK
S
ShyPianist Offline
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ShyPianist  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 572
UK
I’ve just bought this model too 😊 I tried a £40,000 Schimmler grand in the same shop and of course there’s no comparison on one level, but it also stands up very well against it, certainly as well as a good upright. The sound is fantastic and the touch is really nice. Unforgiving enough to provide a good practice environment, but not hard work like the Yamaha CLP675!


Pianist, independent music arranger, violinist, mother
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