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Korg Grandstage 88 - review, comparison vs ES8 #2819163
02/23/19 10:38 AM
02/23/19 10:38 AM
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Warsaw, Poland
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AlphaBravoCharlie Offline OP
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I wanted to have something with more sound options for live performance in addition to my ES8 and decided to get Korg Grandstage, 88-keys version. I will be comparing it to Kawai, since I have them next to each other. Here are some of my biased thoughts.

Build quality
Main body is aluminium based, bottom is MDF, sides are plastic. Little 'chrome' inserts between sides and the central part are plastic also. Elements are well put together, nothing bends when you press it. I think plastic parts in gig environment will scratch with time. Knobs, sliders and buttons feels neatly embedded, but are also made of plastic. The thing looks to be solid but nothing like ES8, where metal is the dominating material. When you look at Kawai, touch it or lift it, the impression is it will last for years and survive everything.

Grandstage: 8
ES8: 10

Appearance
I really like how it looks. Red controls backlit, clear little OLED screens, combination of black and floor-panel look-a-like 'brushed' top, red 'carpet' behind keys and even Korg's glowing logo gives it consistent retro-look. I think on stage, at some funk gig with younger audience you will appear to be more PRO than you are (at least in my case) smile ES8 styling in comparison is quite modest. Black metal casing nicely reflecting lights, black felt and especially vertical 'front' behind keys with white Kawai logo gives it more classy and minimalistic look. A bit apples vs oranges, but:

Grandstage: 9
ES8: 10

Keybed
Both keybeds are called 'RH3', but that's one of few attributes they share. Kawai's subtle ivory feel beats Korg's shiny, glossy white keys, no doubts. Kawai is much easier to play fast, is a bit lighter but both give you good control over dynamics. For someone who prefers heavier actions (not me, I disliked Yamaha's NWX for example), Korg might be even better. Trainsition from ES8 to GS took me like 1 minute and to my surprise I really like it. I used to own SP-250 around 12 years ago and RH3 I remember was feeling much different back then. They must have been improving it through years but not changing the name. I also did an experiment with MIDI and it's easier with Korg to get both really low (<10) and high (>120) velocity levels. Last thing, Korg's RH3 is a bit more noisy, if someone cares. The 'thump' has higher pitch.

Grandstage: 8
ES8: 9.5 (10 is reserved for hybrid grand actions)

Sounds
When it comes to stage pianos, condsidering its purpose, I don't think anything on the market beats Korg currently. Wide selection of APs, EPs, synths, pads, great organ engine, basses, pads and all of them vary from really good to outstanding. I have not found a single voice which is medicore or poor (I ignored guitars). Most of demos available on YouTube do not give justice to piano sounds. People tend to 'bang' it too hard and what you usually hear are >70 velocities. Maybe it's because default velocity setting is '4-Normal', which is limiting acoustic piano dynamics. You have Yamaha, Steinway D, Fazioli, Bechstain and Bosendorfer in different variations (mono, dark, bright). Something for every occasion. Fidelity is great, GBs from Kronos do the job. Rhodes are the best I've heard. ES8 pianos are really good as well, but not as sophisticated as Korg. Sounding more 'classical', with less character. Only thing I find on pair with Korg is main Rhodes sound.

Grandstage: 10*
ES8: 8

Features
Grandstage have limited editing capabilities, but if something is there, you can basically access it from the front panel. My favourite features: 3-band EQ with sliders, knobs for volume levels of layers, reverb/delay knob and 'dynamics' knob (works similar to Pianoteq's dynamics slider). Also having 64 banks of favourites, where you can store your setups is nice (System settings like velocity, dynamics knob and EQ are not stored). For connection it has all that you need. What I really like is headphone port on the left front and XLR outputs with ground/lift switch. The thing I am surprised they didn't add is internal recorder. USB A port is needed only for OS updates and storing favourites. Shame on you, Korg.

Grandstage: 8.5
ES8: N/A

Summary
I think it's a really nice, great sounding all-rounder stage piano. If only Korg would share with Kawai's RH3 something more than name, I could call it almost-perfect.

*I noticed a strange hiss/noise, which increases with each second while playing APs and having sustain pedal depressed for a longer period. With proper pedalling it's not going to happen, but I was trying to check polyphony limit and found that. Will write more once I investigate further.


Korg Grandstage 88 | Kawai ES8 | Pianoteq 6 | Behringer UMC202HD | Takstar PRO82
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Re: Korg Grandstage 88 - review, comparison vs ES8 [Re: AlphaBravoCharlie] #2819292
02/23/19 05:55 PM
02/23/19 05:55 PM
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Aberdeen, UK
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Congratulations! smile

Originally Posted by AlphaBravoCharlie
‎*I noticed a strange hiss/noise, which increases with each second while playing APs and having sustain pedal depressed for a longer period. With proper pedalling it's not going to happen, but I was trying to check polyphony limit and found that. Will write more once I investigate further.


Unfortunately, I have the same problem in the Synthogy Ivory II Grand Pianos. I don't know yet what is the reason (most likely the sampling technique or lack of proper edition of samples), but I will be exploring the topic.
It is necessary to make recordings of these issues and to prospect them, what I will do soon.

Last edited by Rychubil; 02/23/19 05:58 PM.

Roland FP-30 | Synthogy Ivory II GP | Production Voices CG | Dexed | Zoom MS-70CDR | Reaper | Neumann KH120 | Mackie Big Knob Passive | DT-990 pro | ATH-M50X
Re: Korg Grandstage 88 - review, comparison vs ES8 [Re: RichieBill] #2819364
02/23/19 11:00 PM
02/23/19 11:00 PM
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Thank you for your comparison because I have an ES8 and am a long term Korg fan as well. The only thing I would like to add is that there are registrations you can save on the ES8. For example, i didn't think the SK5 (piano in second bank) had enough bass so I edited the EQ in all the menus etc. and came up with something I really liked.


What I really would have liked to have seen from Korg would be a model with speakers- even though the SP280 wasn't a particularly strong unit in terms of action it did include decent amplification.


Kawai Es8
Korg Krome 61
Yamaha P125
Re: Korg Grandstage 88 - review, comparison vs ES8 [Re: AlphaBravoCharlie] #2819500
02/24/19 01:34 PM
02/24/19 01:34 PM
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Warsaw, Poland
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I know ES8 has features GS lacks, but they are for different purposes, so I didn't compare features.

I uploaded some piano samples. Noise level is high because of my poor TRS cables, but still on AustrianNOISE you can hear growing hiss when holding pedał with big chords:
Grandstage APs

Berlin piano is missing - soundcloud deleted it because of copyright. I recorded Chopin A-moll waltz. Ridiculous.

Last edited by AlphaBravoCharlie; 02/24/19 01:42 PM.

Korg Grandstage 88 | Kawai ES8 | Pianoteq 6 | Behringer UMC202HD | Takstar PRO82
Re: Korg Grandstage 88 - review, comparison vs ES8 [Re: AlphaBravoCharlie] #2819510
02/24/19 02:10 PM
02/24/19 02:10 PM
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EssBrace Online content
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Very nice playing Karol. They sound good, those GS pianos, but listening isn't always the same as playing. I remember being a bit underwhelmed by the pianos on the GS when I auditioned it. I can't argue with the results you are getting though. Did yours come with the dedicated GS stand etc?


Roland RD-1000 | Yamaha CLP 645 | Broadwood Barless 7' 6"
Re: Korg Grandstage 88 - review, comparison vs ES8 [Re: AlphaBravoCharlie] #2819517
02/24/19 02:33 PM
02/24/19 02:33 PM
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Warsaw, Poland
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AlphaBravoCharlie Offline OP
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Thanks for nice word. When I played it for the first time in the shop, I was not impressed as well. Then I read somewhere about playing with velocity curve and, wow. Second try made me buy it.

Yes, it came with stand. It's very stable, looks are questionable, but I currently use it instead of my Hercules Z-stand. The reason is what I can call Grandstage design flaw: keys are not parallel (!!) to the bottom of instrument. They are slightly leaned towards the rear and Korg's stand allows mitigating it by leaning piano to the player.


Korg Grandstage 88 | Kawai ES8 | Pianoteq 6 | Behringer UMC202HD | Takstar PRO82
Re: Korg Grandstage 88 - review, comparison vs ES8 [Re: AlphaBravoCharlie] #2819552
02/24/19 04:04 PM
02/24/19 04:04 PM
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EssBrace Online content
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Originally Posted by AlphaBravoCharlie
Grandstage design flaw: keys are not parallel (!!) to the bottom of instrument.


Yes the default touch curve is not right at all. They have ten curves I think and if I remember rightly number 7 might have been the most piano-like. I may have remembered the number wrongly but there is a world of difference when you find the right curve.

All pianos have keys that are not parallel to the bottom though, don't they? The keys should tilt downwards somewhat towards the fallboard.


Roland RD-1000 | Yamaha CLP 645 | Broadwood Barless 7' 6"
Re: Korg Grandstage 88 - review, comparison vs ES8 [Re: AlphaBravoCharlie] #2819570
02/24/19 04:54 PM
02/24/19 04:54 PM
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Sydney, Australia
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Damn good recordings and playing - thanks! I have only listened in car so far but I like all the recordings a lot.

Greg

Re: Korg Grandstage 88 - review, comparison vs ES8 [Re: AlphaBravoCharlie] #2819657
02/24/19 09:46 PM
02/24/19 09:46 PM
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The recordings are excellent! Although I like Steinways the most, the Yamaha sounds very good as well- not too bright. I wouldn't mind owning this keyboard for the variety of pianos it covers.


Kawai Es8
Korg Krome 61
Yamaha P125
Re: Korg Grandstage 88 - review, comparison vs ES8 [Re: sullivang] #2819660
02/24/19 09:55 PM
02/24/19 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by sullivang
Damn good recordings and playing - thanks! I have only listened in car so far but I like all the recordings a lot.

Greg

I also to sign to this opinion - nice musicality smile
BRAVO Karol !!!

Originally Posted by AlphaBravoCharlie
... still on AustrianNOISE you can hear growing hiss when holding pedał with big chords:
Grandstage APs

I have very similar noise on Ivory II GP:
https://soundcloud.com/rychubil/steinway-german-d-noise
https://soundcloud.com/rychubil/bosendorfer-noise
Anybody know what is the reason of these noises?


Roland FP-30 | Synthogy Ivory II GP | Production Voices CG | Dexed | Zoom MS-70CDR | Reaper | Neumann KH120 | Mackie Big Knob Passive | DT-990 pro | ATH-M50X
Re: Korg Grandstage 88 - review, comparison vs ES8 [Re: AlphaBravoCharlie] #2819672
02/24/19 10:25 PM
02/24/19 10:25 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,121
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
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AlphaBravoCharlie,

Congrats on your GrandStage, and thank you for sharing your thoughts/comparisons on these two boards.

I played the GS at the Japan musical instrument fair last October and thought it was a very nice instrument, although I still had my left arm in a cast, so couldn't really play it properly. While there, I chatted with one of the Korg booth staff, and she explained some of the features. One thing we couldn't quite figure out was how to set the Wurly tremolo speed. She called over one of her colleagues for assistance who turned out to be the GS' lead developer. He politely explained that the Wurlitzer 200A did not offer a tremolo speed control, so this behaviour is retained on the GS's Wurly sound also. I felt a little embarrassed about not realising this point, but the chap was so polite and thanked me for asking the question. wink

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Korg Grandstage 88 - review, comparison vs ES8 [Re: AlphaBravoCharlie] #2819678
02/24/19 10:42 PM
02/24/19 10:42 PM
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Um....I'd rather just have a variable tremelo. Flag the authentic rate if you like, but I don't think anyone's world is going to fall apart with a variable tremelo. 😀

Greg.

Re: Korg Grandstage 88 - review, comparison vs ES8 [Re: sullivang] #2819712
02/25/19 12:31 AM
02/25/19 12:31 AM
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Hamamatsu, Japan
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Originally Posted by sullivang
I don't think anyone's world is going to fall apart with a variable tremelo. 😀


Lol, that's true. wink

Perhaps you can suggest this for the next software update? wink

James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Korg Grandstage 88 - review, comparison vs ES8 [Re: Kawai James] #2819905
02/25/19 03:00 PM
02/25/19 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by EssBrace
Originally Posted by AlphaBravoCharlie
Grandstage design flaw: keys are not parallel (!!) to the bottom of instrument.


Yes the default touch curve is not right at all. They have ten curves I think and if I remember rightly number 7 might have been the most piano-like. I may have remembered the number wrongly but there is a world of difference when you find the right curve.

All pianos have keys that are not parallel to the bottom though, don't they? The keys should tilt downwards somewhat towards the fallboard.


I don't have access to real grand piano at the moment, but from what I felt/remembered keys surface was parallel to the floor (when not pressed of course). For sure it's parallel in my Kawai ES8 (when I put piano on the flat table) or Roland FP30. In Grandstage keys are leaned towards rear of the instrument for around ~2 degree (I have not actually measured it).

Originally Posted by Kawai James
He politely explained that the Wurlitzer 200A did not offer a tremolo speed control, so this behaviour is retained on the GS's Wurly sound also. I felt a little embarrassed about not realising this point, but the chap was so polite and thanked me for asking the question. wink


I seldom use Wurly and have no need for modyfing tremolo speed, but this guy's argument looks a bit funny, when you see grand piano presets with Phaser or Tremolo in the same instrument smile


Korg Grandstage 88 | Kawai ES8 | Pianoteq 6 | Behringer UMC202HD | Takstar PRO82
Re: Korg Grandstage 88 - review, comparison vs ES8 [Re: AlphaBravoCharlie] #2819924
02/25/19 03:48 PM
02/25/19 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by AlphaBravoCharlie

Originally Posted by Kawai James
He politely explained that the Wurlitzer 200A did not offer a tremolo speed control, so this behaviour is retained on the GS's Wurly sound also. I felt a little embarrassed about not realising this point, but the chap was so polite and thanked me for asking the question. wink


I seldom use Wurly and have no need for modyfing tremolo speed, but this guy's argument looks a bit funny, when you see grand piano presets with Phaser or Tremolo in the same instrument smile

And in fact, the GS *does* let you alter these effects, at least according to the docs...
[Linked Image]

Re: Korg Grandstage 88 - review, comparison vs ES8 [Re: AlphaBravoCharlie] #2819931
02/25/19 04:04 PM
02/25/19 04:04 PM
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I've just checked it and indeed, it can be modified, exectly like stated in above manual. But not in a very useful way, I think. I assume someone would like to have the speed decresed/increased permanently and Grandstage allows only to vary it using Pitch Bend, which of course come back to the middle position once you release it. In Edit menu compared to Phaser, where you can edit both Speed and Depth, only Depth is available.


Korg Grandstage 88 | Kawai ES8 | Pianoteq 6 | Behringer UMC202HD | Takstar PRO82
Re: Korg Grandstage 88 - review, comparison vs ES8 [Re: AlphaBravoCharlie] #2819947
02/25/19 05:05 PM
02/25/19 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by AlphaBravoCharlie
I don't have access to real grand piano at the moment, but from what I felt/remembered keys surface was parallel to the floor (when not pressed of course). For sure it's parallel in my Kawai ES8 (when I put piano on the flat table) or Roland FP30. In Grandstage keys are leaned towards rear of the instrument for around ~2 degree (I have not actually measured it).


I'm almost certain this isn't the case. IIRC, all pianos (including DPs) should have keys that angle up slightly towards the player. Sometimes cheekblocks or other design elements can hide or accentuate the angle.

I think the keys tend to be parallel to the ground when the key is fully pressed down, but that actually depends on the key length and the position of the balance rail/pivot in the instrument.

It's hard to find pictures that illustrate this, but here's the ES8 since you mentioned it:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Korg Grandstage 88 - review, comparison vs ES8 [Re: EVC2017] #2819968
02/25/19 05:40 PM
02/25/19 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Gombessa

I'm almost certain this isn't the case.


Maybe ABC's is a special edition ES8. wink Mine is a regular one and it has a slope. Do does RD2000. Confirmed with a bubble level

Last edited by EVC2017; 02/25/19 05:41 PM.

Kawai ES8, Roland RD2000, Yamaha AG06 mixer, Presonus Eris E5 monitors, Sennheiser HD598SR phones.
Re: Korg Grandstage 88 - review, comparison vs ES8 [Re: AlphaBravoCharlie] #2819969
02/25/19 05:44 PM
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It just stuck me, probably easier to illustrate this by looking at the action itself. Here's a cutaway of the RH3 action used in the ES8:

[Linked Image]

The keys slope up at rest, and when depressed look nearly horizontal.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Korg Grandstage 88 - review, comparison vs ES8 [Re: AlphaBravoCharlie] #2820004
02/25/19 06:44 PM
02/25/19 06:44 PM
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Guys, I'm either blind or I don't know, I was seeing what I wanted to see. Maybe because I was expecting that. I checked with bubble level and you are right. I'm just curious how I didn't found out until now? I compared ES8 and GS on a flat table next to each other with level and keys in both are similarly angled. So strange.


Korg Grandstage 88 | Kawai ES8 | Pianoteq 6 | Behringer UMC202HD | Takstar PRO82
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