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Re: Casio PRIVIA PX-S1000 and PX-S3000 [Re: JoeT] #2817327 02/19/19 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeT
Originally Posted by RodrigoPon
Hopefully we'll get an ES120 with the clicky keys thingy fixed, since this problem comes unsolved at least from the ES100.

My ES100 doesn't click, never did.


Yeah, apparently there's people who doesn't get the clicks.

I still have them and live with them. Living in Argentina, it'd be almost impossible to get a 2nd replacement unit "just for that".

Let's hope Rosemary will be lucky like you.

Anyway I repeat: even with the clicks, the ES110 is highly recommended.

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Re: Casio PRIVIA PX-S1000 and PX-S3000 [Re: RodrigoPon] #2817331 02/19/19 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by RodrigoPon

Yeah, apparently there's people who doesn't get the clicks.

I'm sure, if I drop the piano from waist height to the floor inside packaging, it will look intact, but will start clicking too. wink

Quote
Living in Argentina, it'd be almost impossible to get a 2nd replacement unit "just for that".

Maybe fragile Kawai instruments aren't the right choice for South America.


Yamaha P-515 | Kawai ES100 | Steinberg UR22 | Sony MDR-7506
Re: Casio PRIVIA PX-S1000 and PX-S3000 [Re: RodrigoPon] #2817349 02/19/19 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by RodrigoPon
The ES110 is as light as these new casio models, just slightly bulkier. I have it and carry it around in my car sometimes, I have a small car yet I had no problems with that.

Also, its piano sample is great for classical and jazz (nice natural attack and sustain), at least I like it a lot more than the new casio's sample (which is essentially the same as the old ones). Cannot speak about the action because I didn't play the casio, but the ES110 has a nice action for its size and weight. About the Casio, I'm also worried about its key length, which will be shorter than the ES110 because of its very size, and the implications on its playability.

For using only the piano sound I wouldn't wait. The ES110 is a great deal.


Thanks, RodrigoPon, that's great to know… Maybe I'm better off ordering that and sending it back if there are problems, nice and early before I go travelling.

Re: Casio PRIVIA PX-S1000 and PX-S3000 [Re: halherta] #2817364 02/19/19 11:40 AM
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I've now had a super quick response from Thomann France: they will have the PX-S3000 at the end of April, but the PX-S1000 at the end of March… which means there wouldn't be so much of a wait for the 1000 and I wouldn't need a real break from practice if I went for that one.

2 questions remain:
- Is the PX-S1000 better than the Kawai ES110?
- Would it still be better to hold on for the PX-S3000? (Although from your comments, I gather that not really.)

I'm now a little intrigued about RodrigoPon's comments on the key length of the Privias though; is that something new to worry about?

Re: Casio PRIVIA PX-S1000 and PX-S3000 [Re: RosemaryGirl] #2817377 02/19/19 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by RosemaryGirl
- Is the PX-S1000 better than the Kawai ES110?

ES110 has a proper half-damper pedal included and superior stand options. It sounds better as well.


Yamaha P-515 | Kawai ES100 | Steinberg UR22 | Sony MDR-7506
Re: Casio PRIVIA PX-S1000 and PX-S3000 [Re: RosemaryGirl] #2817425 02/19/19 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by RosemaryGirl
I've now had a super quick response from Thomann France: they will have the PX-S3000 at the end of April, but the PX-S1000 at the end of March… which means there wouldn't be so much of a wait for the 1000 and I wouldn't need a real break from practice if I went for that one.

2 questions remain:
- Is the PX-S1000 better than the Kawai ES110?
- Would it still be better to hold on for the PX-S3000? (Although from your comments, I gather that not really.)

I'm now a little intrigued about RodrigoPon's comments on the key length of the Privias though; is that something new to worry about?

There are yet not enough reviews of the new Privias. The ES110 is a solid choice, but at this price range Casio tends to offer better value for money. Afaik, the sound engine on the S1000 and S3000 is exactly the same, so you wouldn't get a better acoustic piano sound out of the S3000.

Regarding the key length, it will be definitely short due to slim enclosure. But the compact actions that you will find in most entry and mid level DPs all have short pivots. I am not sure if the RHC action on the ES110 is actually longer (or if it "feels" longer) than the action on the new or previous Casio Privia models - the only thing I am sure is that they are both short smile

Re: Casio PRIVIA PX-S1000 and PX-S3000 [Re: arc7urus] #2817430 02/19/19 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by arc7urus
I am not sure if the RHC action on the ES110 is actually longer (or if it "feels" longer) than the action on the new or previous Casio Privia models - the only thing I am sure is that they are both short smile

The old ES100 action had a pivot length, which is longer than Yamaha's NWX action. Casio couldn't beat that...


Yamaha P-515 | Kawai ES100 | Steinberg UR22 | Sony MDR-7506
Re: Casio PRIVIA PX-S1000 and PX-S3000 [Re: arc7urus] #2817440 02/19/19 01:20 PM
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As seen here:

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2167459/Comparison_of_Portable_Digital.html

Kawai ES100 has one of the longest key lengths in entry level pianos. It remains the same for Kawai ES110. As JoeT says, Casio physically can't beat that with the restricted space of their shiny pianos.

Re: Casio PRIVIA PX-S1000 and PX-S3000 [Re: halherta] #2817447 02/19/19 01:32 PM
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Actually, going by this picture:

https://www.casio-intl.com/media/emi/images/hammer_action.jpg

and considering that the PX-160 has a key fulcrum of 43% of real Piano (as seen in the link I posted above), I predict that the new privias will have a fulcrum 39% of a real piano, since (if the diagram comparing the actions is in scale) the new action has 90% of key length compared to the old one. This would put the new Casios as the shorter key fulcrum of that list.

That doesn't look good, since the ES110 has a fulcrum of 72.5% of a real piano (vs 39% of the casio).

Last edited by RodrigoPon; 02/19/19 01:35 PM.
Re: Casio PRIVIA PX-S1000 and PX-S3000 [Re: RodrigoPon] #2817490 02/19/19 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by RodrigoPon
Actually, going by this picture:

https://www.casio-intl.com/media/emi/images/hammer_action.jpg

and considering that the PX-160 has a key fulcrum of 43% of real Piano (as seen in the link I posted above), I predict that the new privias will have a fulcrum 39% of a real piano, since (if the diagram comparing the actions is in scale) the new action has 90% of key length compared to the old one. This would put the new Casios as the shorter key fulcrum of that list.

That doesn't look good, since the ES110 has a fulcrum of 72.5% of a real piano (vs 39% of the casio).

I've thought about that ever since the introduction of these new PX-S's, with their very short case depth. But in PianoManChuck's NAMM video of these, he raves about the action and says it's "even better" than before.

Well, as a mechanical engineer, I thought maybe they got really clever and used an articulated pivot ("4-bar linkage" - like on many automobile hoods), although that would be a lot more complex and expensive, and thus quite unlikely. And the diagram cited by RidrigoPon shows it's just a simple single pivot.

So I am left to wonder what magic Casio have invoked to solve the short-key-feel problem...


They say extra practice can make up for modesty of talent (up to a point) - I sure hope so...
Re: Casio PRIVIA PX-S1000 and PX-S3000 [Re: gerhard_k] #2817499 02/19/19 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by gerhard_k

So I am left to wonder what magic Casio have invoked to solve the short-key-feel problem...

Further reducing the hammer weights?


Yamaha P-515 | Kawai ES100 | Steinberg UR22 | Sony MDR-7506
Re: Casio PRIVIA PX-S1000 and PX-S3000 [Re: JoeT] #2817547 02/19/19 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeT

Further reducing the hammer weights?

And in the process make their already feather weight action even lighter..might as well buy a synth..

Re: Casio PRIVIA PX-S1000 and PX-S3000 [Re: halherta] #2817562 02/19/19 05:14 PM
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All this discussion about the action is slightly annoying as you have not actually played it. Surely it is much better to refrain from criticism and comments until you have actually played a PX-S1000 or 3000. Some experienced players who tried it at NAMM spoke very highly about it. I certainly would not make any comments until I have actually tested out the action for myself.

Re: Casio PRIVIA PX-S1000 and PX-S3000 [Re: halherta] #2817573 02/19/19 05:28 PM
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After all this talk, I am for sure waiting for the real play action, and comparison with other (similar priced) DP's. If I get the chance, I would compare Roland FP-30 (or FP-10), Kawai ES110, Casio PX-360 and may be the Yamaha P125. If somehow the Casio PX-S1000 is the best keybed action of these keyboards, then I would compare it with a few higher priced keyboards, to see if it is worth to increase the budget. Luckily I need to travel in March, so I am okay waiting till April. Hope to read more in the meantime from all the experts here!

Re: Casio PRIVIA PX-S1000 and PX-S3000 [Re: RodrigoPon] #2817588 02/19/19 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by RodrigoPon
As seen here:

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2167459/Comparison_of_Portable_Digital.html

Kawai ES100 has one of the longest key lengths in entry level pianos. It remains the same for Kawai ES110. As JoeT says, Casio physically can't beat that with the restricted space of their shiny pianos.

According to that comparison, the RHC on the fulcrum Kawai is ES110 is 72.5% of a "real piano" (whatever that means) while he PX-160 is just 43%. However, a rough measurement shows a difference of 4% between the overall length of the RHC action and the old Privia action (measured from the pivot point). So, "one of longest key lengths in entry level pianos" is actually 4% longer than the old Privia action wink No wonder why they both feel quite similar when played close to the back of the key...

The new Privia action will be 14% shorter than the RHC, assuming Casio's diagrams are correctly scaled.

[Linked Image]

Re: Casio PRIVIA PX-S1000 and PX-S3000 [Re: arc7urus] #2817620 02/19/19 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by arc7urus
Originally Posted by RodrigoPon
As seen here:

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2167459/Comparison_of_Portable_Digital.html

Kawai ES100 has one of the longest key lengths in entry level pianos. It remains the same for Kawai ES110. As JoeT says, Casio physically can't beat that with the restricted space of their shiny pianos.

According to that comparison, the RHC on the fulcrum Kawai is ES110 is 72.5% of a "real piano" (whatever that means) while he PX-160 is just 43%. However, a rough measurement shows a difference of 4% between the overall length of the RHC action and the old Privia action (measured from the pivot point). So, "one of longest key lengths in entry level pianos" is actually 4% longer than the old Privia action wink No wonder why they both feel quite similar when played close to the back of the key...

The new Privia action will be 14% shorter than the RHC, assuming Casio's diagrams are correctly scaled.

[Linked Image]


If the Kawai diagram is in scale then you're right. I'm not sure how the guy in the post I shared calculated those distances, but he did it by measuring key dip at the front and at the rear of the key:

Kawai ES100: Key fulcrum: 72.5% of a real Piano - Key dip: Front 12mm, Rear 4.35mm

Casio PX-160: Key fulcrum: 43% of real Piano - Key dip: Front 11.5mm, Rear 2.5mm

Forget the % of a real piano. The differences in key dip in front vs rear tells us how long the keys are. You can see that in the Kawai, the difference is much less pronounced than in the PX-160. Unless those measurements are utterly wrong, they should be more reliable than some diagrams, specially not knowing if they're in scale or not.

Also, little differences in key length make big difference in playability near the back of the key, it's not linear. We'll have to wait to try the new Casio's action, but physics are physics and the big difference in playability on the front and the rear will be there. Unless they used an articulated pivot, as gerhard_k said, but doesn't seem to be the case.

Re: Casio PRIVIA PX-S1000 and PX-S3000 [Re: halherta] #2817746 02/20/19 02:38 AM
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I read the pages of posts - I get the hype and a day dream that this is going to change everything but the PX1000 are build as the lowest privia models, replacing the PX-160. They are not build as some master keyboards for pianists. The 5s failed to capture the pro market so Casio knows where the money is now. Casio did send these keyboards to their selected dealers to rave about so yes they probably would not be too critical. If the old PX keys feels short to some then inevitably the new PX will feel shorter. No way around it.
However these models are build for a particular clientele - which is mostly young kids forced practicing at home for a year then as soon as everybody agrees it is not going anywhere the piano is sold. If someone is aiming to be a conservatory trained pianist he/she will go through few steps of upgrades and end up probably with something that cost few grands not with the lowest Casio models so it is sort of pointless to criticize them for shortening the keys. The PX1000 is the Honda Fit of cars and if shorter keys make it smaller and lighter, bring it on!

The old PX160 were still too bulky and heavy to be used as MIDI keyboards - I bought (dirt cheap) and sold few of them and never had long desire to keep one for myself for computer as they were pain in the donkey to actually transport or move. Too thick and bulky and you can't toss it around..

The PX-1000 may change that as it seems less bulky and actually build for transport. One of the biggest issue with the older Casio keybeds is that during transport you may dislodge the hammers or the key seating if you are not careful and bounce it around or keep flipping it. The PX1000 is shown to be specifically carried vertically so I guess they solved any of those potential issues. This is a huge plus. This brings it more to the keyboard care-free handling and I love that.

As for the sound of casio - it is probably a matter of taste. I have PX-860 and I really like its sound. I used to have many keyboards from kurzweil, korg to rolands to yamaha and each piano sound was distinctively different and Casio PX comfortably sits between them as one of the good and usable piano sounds. (I like it more than any of the pianos on my Fantom G)


Casio PX-860, Roland Fantom G, Kurzweil PC1X, Korg Micro X
Re: Casio PRIVIA PX-S1000 and PX-S3000 [Re: oscar1] #2818202 02/20/19 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by oscar1
I read the pages of posts - I get the hype and a day dream that this is going to change everything but the PX1000 are build as the lowest privia models, replacing the PX-160. They are not build as some master keyboards for pianists. The 5s failed to capture the pro market so Casio knows where the money is now. Casio did send these keyboards to their selected dealers to rave about so yes they probably would not be too critical. If the old PX keys feels short to some then inevitably the new PX will feel shorter. No way around it.
However these models are build for a particular clientele - which is mostly young kids forced practicing at home for a year then as soon as everybody agrees it is not going anywhere the piano is sold. If someone is aiming to be a conservatory trained pianist he/she will go through few steps of upgrades and end up probably with something that cost few grands not with the lowest Casio models so it is sort of pointless to criticize them for shortening the keys. The PX1000 is the Honda Fit of cars and if shorter keys make it smaller and lighter, bring it on!

The old PX160 were still too bulky and heavy to be used as MIDI keyboards - I bought (dirt cheap) and sold few of them and never had long desire to keep one for myself for computer as they were pain in the donkey to actually transport or move. Too thick and bulky and you can't toss it around..

The PX-1000 may change that as it seems less bulky and actually build for transport. One of the biggest issue with the older Casio keybeds is that during transport you may dislodge the hammers or the key seating if you are not careful and bounce it around or keep flipping it. The PX1000 is shown to be specifically carried vertically so I guess they solved any of those potential issues. This is a huge plus. This brings it more to the keyboard care-free handling and I love that.

As for the sound of casio - it is probably a matter of taste. I have PX-860 and I really like its sound. I used to have many keyboards from kurzweil, korg to rolands to yamaha and each piano sound was distinctively different and Casio PX comfortably sits between them as one of the good and usable piano sounds. (I like it more than any of the pianos on my Fantom G)


Thanks for this writeup. I'm an adult beginner, and I'm pretty serious about getting better. I'm also a classical guitarist who wants to learn the keys. I'm having a great time with PianoMarvel and like how it is score-driven and not video game driven. I appreciate being able to practice silently and I find that it is easy to get hooked into working on a piece until it is in time and note perfect. I'l probably find a teacher to go to once or twice a month to correct any bad habits that crop up.

So, given the current offerings on the market and $1000-$1200 to spend, what would be some alternatives to the PX-S3000 that have longer keys? I have large hands and so perhaps I should go with a keyboard that has longer keys.

Last edited by LarryK; 02/20/19 10:41 PM.

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Re: Casio PRIVIA PX-S1000 and PX-S3000 [Re: LarryK] #2818209 02/20/19 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by LarryK

So, given the current offerings on the market and $1000-$1200 to spend, what would be some alternatives to the PX-S3000 that have longer keys? I have large hands and so perhaps I should go with a keyboard that has longer keys.

I'm not sure where people are getting this "shorter key" thing confused with the actual exposed keys. The exposed keys (playing area) are standard size, just like on an acoustic piano or any other digital/stage piano with full size keys. Its the portion that you DON'T see (under the hood) that's shorter.... it was a real feat of engineering to develop this new technology that actually feels better than the current Privia models (which have a longer portion under the hood). For anyone in disbelief that you can't get a good action with shorter length 'under the hood', I highly suggest trying it out for yourself as soon as they're available at local retailers.


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Re: Casio PRIVIA PX-S1000 and PX-S3000 [Re: PianoManChuck] #2818300 02/21/19 09:12 AM
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Thanks Chuck, glad someone is pointing to what matters. In the end, so far my buying search goes (most important the feel of playing the keybed), as of now it will become a decision between the Roland FP-30 (which I already tried) and the new Casio PX-S1000 (need to wait). To complete the comparison, I will compare the two with higher priced models, to evaluate if it is worth to increase the budget.

This forum is helpful with all the input, and hopefully I can add to this once I tried out more DPs.

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