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Re: Best DAW for my needs? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2797235 12/31/18 08:26 PM
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Reaper is a good one to try as it’s free for the first 60 days and even after that it still lets you use it (but if you like it, it costs so little, it’s only fair to contribute towards its production costs).

I’ve used Cubase for many years, but it came to a point that although it’s my personal favourite, I just didn’t use a huge part of it, and the update costs are virtually the same as buying reaper new.

I had so much software that I decided to be hard on myself. I sold all my Steinberg software, Cubase, Halion 6, Groove Agent, and with the money, bought Reaper and Native instruments S61 kompete kontrol keyboard.

That only leaves me with Native Instruments Komplete 12, Arturia V6 collection, Jamstix 4, UVI True keys Italian etc (in other words, the reality is I have enough synths, pianos, drums to keep me happy for years, bet I still buy something in 2019 though).

I grew up with pro12, pro 24 then that turned into Cubase. That’s the only reason I stuck with it for so long, and it is good, I just can’t warrant the cost for what use I currently need it for.

So I gave Reaper a try, it’s good enough for my current needs. There’s also a ton of videos out there on most daws so you don’t have to read manuals from beginning to end.

If your interested, there’s a YouTube channel called “REAPER Mania” that has a ton of tutorials on Reaper including a series of 30 videos called Reaper 5 Explained, vid 1 is the introduction, vid 2 is how so start a new project etc.

Link to them below.

Reaper tutorial link

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Re: Best DAW for my needs? [Re: johnstaf] #2797250 12/31/18 09:42 PM
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Tyrone Slothrop Offline OP
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Originally Posted by johnstaf
If you only want one DAW, you need to bear in mind that Pyramix has no MIDI or VST instrument functionality. It's for audio only. You can use another DAW to host your VST and send the audio to Pyramix. That seems cumbersome, and perhaps it is, but when it comes to assembling a recording with hundreds of edits (as is typical in the classical music world) it's in a league of its own.

The no MIDI or VST functionality, would be a non-starter for me. Using VSTs and MIDI is my raison d'être for looking for a DAW! And no, in my wildest (or sickest!) dreams, I can't imagine having hundreds of edits. LOL.

Originally Posted by Scooby Hoo
Another sleeper-candidate is Mixcraft 8. Mixcraft excels at ease-of-use and getting users started quickly. Depending on the version, Mixcraft also comes with instruments, notation abilities, etc (an advantage over Reaper).

Mixcraft 8 --Click Here.

Ease of use is a biggy. Will look at Mixcraft 8. It gets a -1 though since the latest book on Mixcraft is from 2015, and even then, it seems to be guitar-specific. I'd prefer harder to use software with a manual than easier to use software, unless it has a completely trivial interface (can't believe this would be the case for an audio engineering app, however).

Originally Posted by Scooby Hoo
If you decide to grow, I would suggest Pianoteq. Instruments I would recommend Sampletank or Miroslav Philharmonik. Watch for sales at IK Multimedia.

That I am looking at DAWs at all is because of Pianoteq, actually. If I weren't using a VST already, I'd probably never have discovered VST hosts and DAWs at all. I can imagine eventually getting some virtual orchestra instruments in addition to Pianoteq. I assume that what Sampletank, Miroslav Philharmonik, and IK Multimedia are?

Originally Posted by johnstaf
Reaper now has notation, but it's very basic. Cubase, Logic, Digital Performer, and Pro Tools are ok, but no DAW has really good notation abilities. I'm a longtime Finale user for my notation needs, but instead of upgrading I'm going to switch to Dorico. Hopefully there will be some integration with Cubase at some stage in the future.

I have Sibelius, which I hardly use at all. I got it only because I didn't know about Musescore at that time. LOL. I've heard about Dorico, but also read somewhere that it isn't yet a mature product. Perhaps I'll stick with Musescore until Dorico matures. Or maybe I'll just stick with Musescore forever as I already know how to use it. BTW, one of the big detractions of Sibelius was that it was not as easy to use for me as Musescore. Or maybe I just know how to use Musescore better now than Sibelius? I did read that the creators of Dorico had all left Sibelius. (or was it Finale?)

Does Reaper work with either Musescore and/or Sibelius?

Originally Posted by johnstafOne DAW that hasn't been mention is Studio One. It has created quite a stir in the last few years, but I've never used it.[/quote

I've just saw a few words about Studio One in the last few days when I started looking at DAWs, but really didn't see anyone recommending it over Reaper. Also, the most recent book covering Studio One seems to be an impressive $167!

[quote=Frédéric L]You can compare a DAW with Excel : you can just insert in cells 1,2,3,A1+B1, etc, use dynamic cross table (I am not sure of the English term), macros, Power Query request... depending of your needs. For some uses, it is quite simple, for other, you will need to dig the manual a little longer.

The reason I prefer 3rd-party books over user manuals is that I never need more than a small percentage of the functionality of any software - and usually, 3rd-party authored books will explain the background (the "why" of features) and cover a number of use-cases, some of which will be relevant to me and which I can just follow along with, instead of forcing me to try to figure out how to combine features and functions of the software for myself.

Originally Posted by Ojustaboo
Reaper is a good one to try as it’s free for the first 60 days and even after that it still lets you use it (but if you like it, it costs so little, it’s only fair to contribute towards its production costs).

Yes. I will just never need the commercial license. The cost is really nominal. Buying a few books on Reaper will cost more than the software.

Originally Posted by Ojustaboo
So I gave Reaper a try, it’s good enough for my current needs. There’s also a ton of videos out there on most daws so you don’t have to read manuals from beginning to end.

If your interested, there’s a YouTube channel called “REAPER Mania” that has a ton of tutorials on Reaper including a series of 30 videos called Reaper 5 Explained, vid 1 is the introduction, vid 2 is how so start a new project etc.

Link to them below.

Reaper tutorial link

Thanks. This is all a +1 for Reaper. These videos might be enough for me and I might not even need to buy the Reaper books (although realistically, knowing myself, if I do end up with Reaper, I'd probably also end up with all the books. haha).


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across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Best DAW for my needs? [Re: EPW] #2797253 12/31/18 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by EPW
Reaper is the Geeks DAW smile


One think that can please geeks in Reaper is the customisation options : you can redesign the interface, create new functions (ReaScript programs), even DIY fx plugins (ReaJS programs).

But all of these options are not mandatory to use freely Reaper.

An other thing is that Reaper is very flexible : every track can send its signal to every other (on Cubase, only to fx and busses tracks), there are many recording options (7) even if the default one is OK for many uses... and so one. We can like this flexibility (ok if needed), or be afraid of it. But simpler tasks are not so difficult to acheive. It is my humble opinion.

The proposed Fx seems also proposed by geeks : not more complicated to use (putting the compressor threshold level near the input vu-meter is clever), but they lack some graphic eye-candy we have in Fx proposed by other DAW. An all grey interface is not common among Fx control panels.


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Re: Best DAW for my needs? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2797276 01/01/19 12:59 AM
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It seems that you do not need a DAW at all. DAWS are full of features you will never use and will most likely make your life miserable.
Why not take a scoring program as a starting point? They have some recording capabilities. Have you tried Sibelius First? You can get it for free.


FP-90
Re: Best DAW for my needs? [Re: Arnes] #2797279 01/01/19 01:03 AM
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Tyrone Slothrop Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Arnes
It seems that you do not need a DAW at all. DAWS are full of features you will never use and will most likely make your life miserable.
Why not take a scoring program as a starting point? They have some recording capabilities. Have you tried Sibelius First? You can get it for free.

Thanks for the idea, but I have the paid version of Sibelius but have used it less than one hour in total. I do use the open source Musescore a lot though. Sibelius cannot host my Pianoteq so it loses right off the bat, compared to anything else, including the VSTHost which I use now.


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Best DAW for my needs? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2797305 01/01/19 02:25 AM
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Another member of the Reaper praise group right here.

I thought I was cool, when I got the Pro Tools First, and Ableton Live Lite with my Focusrite 2i4. Now I would be all set, to mix and EQ, all of that stuff.

Then PT First, and the Ableton started crashing on me, almost everytime I opened the programs. It was one or the other, Ableton Live Lite, I think, that blue screened my computer.

I was afraid I had destroyed the motherboard, so to save my computer from ending up in the garbage, I uninstalled both programs.

Reaper, never crashed on me, opened immediately almost, ran fine, never had any problems with it. I don't see it was any harder to use than the crashers, Pro Tools First, and Ableton Live Lite.

Sure, the latter two come with more virtual instruments (not worth much, if you ask me) but I've got tons of those anyway, as you can see in my signature. I only use piano VSTs, though I might consider getting a good guitar, violin, or a harp.

Last edited by TheodorN; 01/01/19 02:26 AM.

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Re: Best DAW for my needs? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2797308 01/01/19 02:37 AM
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Tyrone, have you tried loopMIDI with your Sibelius?

https://www.tobias-erichsen.de/software/loopmidi.html

I've used it with Synthesia, and Notation Composer, and I can use all of my piano VSTs with the programs.

Though I tend to use some fast loading ones, most of the time. I don't need Garritan CFX for playing or editing MIDI files.

LoopMIDI is real easy to use, simply set it as output in Sibelius, assuming there's such an option, and as input in the interface of the virtual instrument you'll be using.

Just so the Sibelius, which you've already paid for, can be of use to you, if this option works with it.

Last edited by TheodorN; 01/01/19 02:40 AM.

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Casio PX-5S. Garritan CFX, Production Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand LE, AcousticSamples C7, NI Giant, Sampletekk White Grand, Choc. Audio Steinbach, and a few more. Kontakt 5. Reaper.
Re: Best DAW for my needs? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2797311 01/01/19 03:00 AM
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Tyrone: It might help if you were to say what you'll be doing with a DAW. All we have from you is ...
Quote
I currently using the single-VST VST Host program ...
So I've never used a DAW at all before, so I am not biased towards one interface style vs. another ...
I won't be using the DAW to support live performances ...
At some future point, I might want to have a couple of VST pianos and other classical instruments to mix together though.
I think VST Host (or any other freebie, such as SaviHost or MiniHost) will do what you need now.

The only "extra" requirement you will have "at some time in the future" is to have "a couple of VST pianos and other classical instruments to mix together".

I suggest that you might choose to do nothing just now ... until that future need arises.
At that time choose the simplest of DAWs, such as Studio One.
(Even I figured out how to use that one. It's so easy even a caveman can do it.)

Re: Best DAW for my needs? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2797327 01/01/19 04:01 AM
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Studio One can be used freely (the Prime edition is free), but if we want to load a VST, it is more expensive than some others (Artist edition + VST/AU/Rewire support option).


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Re: Best DAW for my needs? [Re: Frédéric L] #2797924 01/02/19 07:29 PM
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Tyrone Slothrop Offline OP
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
At that time choose the simplest of DAWs, such as Studio One.
(Even I figured out how to use that one. It's so easy even a caveman can do it.)

Originally Posted by Frédéric L
Studio One can be used freely (the Prime edition is free), but if we want to load a VST, it is more expensive than some others (Artist edition + VST/AU/Rewire support option).

Sounds like I would need the Artist edition + VST/AU/Rewire support option then. The thing putting me off Studio One is the most recent book is one major release behind. That would be annoying to try to learn from.


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across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Best DAW for my needs? [Re: Scooby Hoo] #2815748 02/15/19 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Scooby Hoo


This one is often overlooked, but much fun. A ton of stuff available.


Kawai MP11 : JBL LSR305 : Focusrite 2i4 : Pianoteq / Garritan CFX

We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams. -Willy Wonka


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Re: Best DAW for my needs? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2815754 02/15/19 12:56 PM
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I recommend any DAW that is really popular so you have support in forums. Period.

I used to use Cakewalk many years ago and hated it... not because it was no good, but I had trouble getting support from others.... this was early internet by the way.

Today I use Ableton. I gave up trying to figure this all out... I am not advocating Ableton over others as I just don;t have the knowledge. I will say, that I was and still am, very surprised at how good the Ableton help files, manual and YouTube vids are. They are really well written for noobs like me.

But beware..... the nature of a DAW is different than a keyboard. What I mean by this, is that just like a keyboard has a boatload of skills and practice required, so does as DAW. Recording and production have their own lexicon and way of looking at things that takes some plain old work to learn. I don;t think there is any way around this. Now that I have learned some basics... it is starting to get easier and easier at a faster pace. I can now record tracks, both audio and MIDI, lay down a string part and bass..... and then play them all back through my RD-2000 keyboard and there I can select to play each track with a different sound using the 1,000+ voices in it. As it plays, I can feed it back to the DAW and record a final mix in audio. Then I export it in a myrad of formats (CD 44.1 for me). This is starting to be fun. No need for a VST, outboard mixer like a Mackie or other sound box. The keyboard can do it all with a DAW connected with a simple USB cable. Wow. I just wish my credit card can order me some talent.

Peace
Bruce in Philly

Last edited by Bruce In Philly; 02/15/19 01:05 PM.

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Re: Best DAW for my needs? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2815761 02/15/19 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Bruce In Philly

I used to use Cakewalk many years ago and hated it... not because it was no good, but I had trouble getting support from others.... this was early internet by the way.


I used to love the old Cakewalk. It just so happened that the interface suited my way of working -when it didn't crash. I had to switch to Logic in the mid '90s and hated it.

Now I use Pyramix for audio-only music editing, Pro Tools for (non-musical) sound editing, and Cubase for anything with MIDI. Things were so much simpler then.

Re: Best DAW for my needs? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2815772 02/15/19 01:32 PM
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Have you redefined your use case?
Originally you said ...
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
... while I am interested in live music, it is more just myself playing the digital piano, either with or without accompaniment, in my home, and I won't be using the DAW to support real live performances ... This is a rather simple use-case actually.

If this still holds true then you really don't want a DAW at all. You just want the simplest, most minimal host into which you can "plug" one or more virtual instruments.

Most DAWs are complex ... with tools needed by a pro or semi-pro who records, mixes, arranges, etc.
But if you just intend to play 'n' listen then all of those knobs, controls, and settings just get in the way.

Re: Best DAW for my needs? [Re: MacMacMac] #2815776 02/15/19 01:37 PM
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Tyrone Slothrop Offline OP
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Have you redefined your use case?
Originally you said ...
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
... while I am interested in live music, it is more just myself playing the digital piano, either with or without accompaniment, in my home, and I won't be using the DAW to support real live performances ... This is a rather simple use-case actually.

If this still holds true then you really don't want a DAW at all. You just want the simplest, most minimal host into which you can "plug" one or more virtual instruments.

Most DAWs are complex ... with tools needed by a pro or semi-pro who records, mixes, arranges, etc.
But if you just intend to play 'n' listen then all of those knobs, controls, and settings just get in the way.

Yes, I do need to redefine my use case. Since there are some things I would like to do. For example, I'd like to play it with accompaniment (for example, to play with accompaniment or vocal tracks). I'd like to be able to do some minimal editing to make recordings, for example for the PW quarterly recitals. So it's not just live music, but it is much less than the pro or semi-pro.


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Best DAW for my needs? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2815790 02/15/19 02:04 PM
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If you need recording and editing, software like MainStage, Cantabile, CamelotPro which are too live oriented won’t be made for you.

Perhaps you should try a Reaper demo or BandLab Cakewalk. But you will have more likely some help from me with Reaper here. Then come back with what you miss, would like to get more handy, etc.

It would be interesting to know how you want to get the accompaniment : importing a MIDI track, recording it track per track, just playing chords and hear an arranger software making this accompaniment.

I know by name Varranger which can provides you a software arranger, but I don’t know how it is handy (my sense of rythm is too bad for me too play any arranger however). There is also Band in a box which I only know by name too. Making accompaniment could need some software different than a classic DAW.

Last edited by Frédéric L; 02/15/19 02:07 PM.

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Re: Best DAW for my needs? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2816032 02/16/19 02:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
The thing putting me off Studio One is the most recent book is one major release behind. That would be annoying to try to learn from.

The package comes with a user's guide in digital form. I have used S1 since 2010 and have never needed any other reference than what is included. S1 is pretty intuitive compared to many others. But of course, it is a full blown DAW and there is a learning curve.


FP-90
Re: Best DAW for my needs? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2816055 02/16/19 03:48 AM
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I also found Studio One to be "relatively" easy compared to some others.

Tyrone, I wouldn't sweat the book. I learned from the manual.

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